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AeroCityMayor
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Mahjong DVD arcade game
#234608 - 09/25/10 11:35 AM


These setups don't appear on Yahoo auctions very often, and certainly not at affordable prices.

Until now!!!

One of the G-Front sellers on YAJ listed ten or eleven of these kits at rock bottom prices a few months ago and I purchased the cheapest one.

I do of course have no idea what to do with the hardware - I'm mainly concerned about the screen res but since the game is from 1998 I'm thinking that 15kHz is a good guess. I may just plug it in to one of my Mahjong cabs or my Supergun and hope for the best

Click on the pictures for the full sized image











On the off chance that someone fancies translating the manual into Englsh, here are some hi-res pics to go at.

The game title would be a nice start


Code:



http://petes-emulation.com/ftp/alien_mame/pics/mjDVD4/HPIM1251.JPG


http://petes-emulation.com/ftp/alien_mame/pics/mjDVD4/HPIM1252.JPG


http://petes-emulation.com/ftp/alien_mame/pics/mjDVD4/HPIM1253.JPG


http://petes-emulation.com/ftp/alien_mame/pics/mjDVD4/HPIM1254.JPG






Cheers,

Ralph.



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AeroCityMayor
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Re: Mahjong DVD arcade game new [Re: AeroCityMayor]
#234621 - 09/25/10 05:14 PM


>
> The game title would be a nice start
>

Cosplay Heaven 5

A Mahjong Hanafuda game



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AeroCityMayor
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Re: Mahjong DVD arcade game new [Re: AeroCityMayor]
#234631 - 09/25/10 09:02 PM


Well, ya plugz it in and it just workz!

I was consigned to the kitchen for this one!







Turns out you just connect it up like a normal Mahjong/Hanafuda pcb.



Cheers,

Ralph.



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SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: Mahjong DVD arcade game new [Re: AeroCityMayor]
#234632 - 09/25/10 09:10 PM


I can't spot your RGB card in there. I guess the refresh rate is funky and makes it come out in B&W. So have you dumped it yet? Use this for dumping energy ->



AeroCityMayor
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Re: Mahjong DVD arcade game new [Re: Smitdogg]
#234633 - 09/25/10 09:25 PM


> I can't spot your RGB card in there. I guess the refresh rate is funky and makes it
> come out in B&W. So have you dumped it yet? Use this for dumping energy ->

Thanks for the bacon matey - I hope it's a non-Canadian veggie rasher

I'm off to Greece now for two weeks, I'll dump and CHD everything when I get back.

Dumping Union FTW

Cheers,

Ralph.



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ShimaPong
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Re: Mahjong DVD arcade game new [Re: AeroCityMayor]
#234710 - 09/26/10 04:00 PM


This is 4th title of Nitibutu's 'High Rate DVD' series and confirmd the following titles.

1998
01 : Mahjong Gal-pri (World Gal-con Grandprix) : Nitibutu/Just&Just
02 : Sengoku Mahjong Kurenai Otome-tai : Nitibutu/Just&Just
03 : Jyunai - Manatsu no First Kiss : Nitibutu/eic
04 : Mahjong Hanafuda Cospure Tengoku 5 : Nitibutu/Just&Just
05 : Jyunai2 - White Love Story : Nitibutu/eic
06 : Mahjong Mogitate : Nitibutu/Just&Just/NVS/Astro System/AV Japan

1999
07 : Mahjong Maina - Kairakukan he Youkoso : Sphinx/Just&Just
08 : Renai Mahjong Idol Gakuen : Nitibutu/eic
09 : BiKiNikko - Okinawa de Ippai Shityaimashita : Nitibutu/eic
10 : Mahjong Hanafuda Cospure Tengoko 6 - Jyunai hen : Nitibutu/eic
11 : The Nanpa : Nitibutu/Love Factory/eic
12 : PokoaPoka Onsen de CHU - Bijin 3 Simai ni kiwotukete : Nitibutu/eic
13 : Cospure Tengoku 7 - Super Co-gal Grandprix : Nitibutu/eic
14 : Ai-mode - Pet Shiiku : Nitibutu/eic

2000
15 : Fu-dol : Nitibutu/eic
16 : Nurete Mitaino... - Net Idol Hen : Nitibutu/Love Factory
17 : Tuugakuro no Yuuwaku : Nitibutu/Love Factory/Just&Just
18 : Toraretyattano - AV Kantoku Hen : Nitibutu/Love Factory/M Friend

2001
19 : Konnano Hajimete! : Nitibutu/Love Factory
20 : Uwasa no Deai-kei Sight : Nitibutu/Love Factory/eic


After 2002, Nitibutu developed new series, "Next Generation DVD/DVD21/X-rated DVD".



"Any company has no power to stop people emulating"
MAME is the emulator of no giving in the pressure from any company even if they don't allow



AeroCityMayor
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Re: Mahjong DVD arcade game new [Re: ShimaPong]
#234711 - 09/26/10 04:09 PM


Thank you very much for the list matey.

Do you know if any of the above DVDs will work with my hardware?

Or do I have to buy the mobo for each different one?

Thanks in advance d00d.

Cheers,

Ralph.



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Gatinho
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Do you connect the toaster in serial, or parallel? new [Re: AeroCityMayor]
#234712 - 09/26/10 04:23 PM


Hard to tell from your pic.

Also, where'd you score that CP? I'd totally be interested in a couple if you know of others.








SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: Mahjong DVD arcade game new [Re: AeroCityMayor]
#234716 - 09/26/10 06:57 PM


MAME shots from Kale:

http://mamedev.emulab.it/kale/fast/files/0002_376661574.png
http://mamedev.emulab.it/kale/fast/files/0033_303019540.png
http://mamedev.emulab.it/kale/fast/files/0037_595807025.png




Kitsune Sniper
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Wait a second... new [Re: AeroCityMayor]
#234720 - 09/26/10 07:17 PM


Stupid question.

This uses a DVD to display video, right? Wouldn't that mean that in order to emulate the system, you'd have to decompress the DVD's MPEG-2 video? Wouldn't that get MAME in trouble with whoever "owns" the format since it wouldn't pay royalties or something? (The same situation that keeps that Star Wars Arcade game without sound.)



AeroCityMayor
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: Kitsune Sniper]
#234721 - 09/26/10 07:21 PM


> Stupid question.
>
> This uses a DVD to display video, right? Wouldn't that mean that in order to emulate
> the system, you'd have to decompress the DVD's MPEG4 video? Wouldn't that get MAME in
> trouble with whoever "owns" the format since it wouldn't pay royalties or something?
> (The same situation that keeps that Star Wars Arcade game without sound.)

SSshhhhh!



Yeah, I know, I'm not holding my breathe. The one glimmer of hope is the recent work that has been done to get around the licensing issues.

Cheers,

Ralph.



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AeroCityMayor
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Re: Mahjong DVD arcade game new [Re: Smitdogg]
#234722 - 09/26/10 07:23 PM


> MAME shots from Kale:
>
> http://mamedev.emulab.it/kale/fast/files/0002_376661574.png
> http://mamedev.emulab.it/kale/fast/files/0033_303019540.png
> http://mamedev.emulab.it/kale/fast/files/0037_595807025.png

Yeah, I lied - sue me!

ROMS dumped and CHD created.




Kitsune Sniper
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: AeroCityMayor]
#234723 - 09/26/10 07:24 PM


> SSshhhhh!
>
>
> Yeah, I know, I'm not holding my breathe. The one glimmer of hope is the recent work
> that has been done to get around the licensing issues.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ralph.

Heh. Okay then. I'm not sure what's been changed in MAME lately, but okay.

Don't think I don't want this emulated / preserved someday. I do. I just don't want MAME to get in trouble.



AeroCityMayor
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Re: Do you connect the toaster in serial, or parallel? new [Re: Gatinho]
#234724 - 09/26/10 07:28 PM


> Hard to tell from your pic.
>

The toaster plugs into the serial port on the back of the Pana! Helps to stabalise the syetm an stop everything from tripping out .... man!

> Also, where'd you score that CP? I'd totally be interested in a couple if you know of
> others.

That my friend is a PanaTwin MP-92 Supergun of which I am immensely proud. They do appear on Yahoo Auctions Japan every now and then.

Probably the best Supergun in the world.

Cheers,

Ralph.



Kitsune Sniper
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Re: Do you connect the toaster in serial, or parallel? new [Re: AeroCityMayor]
#234726 - 09/26/10 07:56 PM


> > Hard to tell from your pic.
> >
>
> The toaster plugs into the serial port on the back of the Pana! Helps to stabalise
> the syetm an stop everything from tripping out .... man!

Every time you get a nudie girl, you get perfect toast.



Fever
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: Kitsune Sniper]
#234728 - 09/26/10 08:15 PM


> > SSshhhhh!
> >
> >
> > Yeah, I know, I'm not holding my breathe. The one glimmer of hope is the recent
> work
> > that has been done to get around the licensing issues.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Ralph.
>
> Heh. Okay then. I'm not sure what's been changed in MAME lately, but okay.
>
> Don't think I don't want this emulated / preserved someday. I do. I just don't want
> MAME to get in trouble.

I though I read a while back a dev, prolly Belmont, saying that you could probably just get the original arcade software in the ROMS to decrypt the mpegs for you without having to put any algorithums into MAME itself...



Kale
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: Fever]
#234733 - 09/26/10 09:00 PM


>
> I though I read a while back a dev, prolly Belmont, saying that you could probably
> just get the original arcade software in the ROMS to decrypt the mpegs for you
> without having to put any algorithums into MAME itself...

Which is exactly what we'll end up doing for this anyway.



Kitsune Sniper
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: Fever]
#234734 - 09/26/10 09:08 PM


> > > SSshhhhh!
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah, I know, I'm not holding my breathe. The one glimmer of hope is the recent
> > work
> > > that has been done to get around the licensing issues.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Ralph.
> >
> > Heh. Okay then. I'm not sure what's been changed in MAME lately, but okay.
> >
> > Don't think I don't want this emulated / preserved someday. I do. I just don't want
> > MAME to get in trouble.
>
> I though I read a while back a dev, prolly Belmont, saying that you could probably
> just get the original arcade software in the ROMS to decrypt the mpegs for you
> without having to put any algorithums into MAME itself...

But does the software decode the video on its own, or does it pass the data to a decoder chip, which does its thing?



AeroCityMayor
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: Kale]
#234736 - 09/26/10 09:17 PM


> >
> > I though I read a while back a dev, prolly Belmont, saying that you could probably
> > just get the original arcade software in the ROMS to decrypt the mpegs for you
> > without having to put any algorithums into MAME itself...
>
> Which is exactly what we'll end up doing for this anyway.

Phew!




SmitdoggAdministrator
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SFW pics ripped from the disc new [Re: AeroCityMayor]
#234745 - 09/26/10 09:45 PM













SmitdoggAdministrator
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Update at Kale's about this new [Re: AeroCityMayor]
#234750 - 09/26/10 09:57 PM


http://mamedev.emulab.it/kale/



AeroCityMayor
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Re: Mahjong DVD arcade game new [Re: AeroCityMayor]
#234752 - 09/26/10 10:01 PM


> Thank you very much for the list matey.
>
> Do you know if any of the above DVDs will work with my hardware?
>
> Or do I have to buy the mobo for each different one?
>
> Thanks in advance d00d.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ralph.

OK, after seeing the hardware and Kale's work on the driverI now realise what a st00p1d question this is!

Looks like I'm gonna be busy.

If anyone wants to throw some money at me to try to get some more of these, who am I to refuse.



Cheers,

Ralph.

P.S. I'll start a new thread for Kale's WIP if I have'nt been beaten to it.



Kale
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Re: Mahjong DVD arcade game new [Re: AeroCityMayor]
#234760 - 09/27/10 12:09 AM


> > Thank you very much for the list matey.
> >
> > Do you know if any of the above DVDs will work with my hardware?
> >
> > Or do I have to buy the mobo for each different one?
> >
> > Thanks in advance d00d.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Ralph.
>
> OK, after seeing the hardware and Kale's work on the driverI now realise what a
> st00p1d question this is!
>
> Looks like I'm gonna be busy.
>
> If anyone wants to throw some money at me to try to get some more of these, who am I
> to refuse.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ralph.
>
> P.S. I'll start a new thread for Kale's WIP if I have'nt been beaten to it.

PCB layout makes me think that it just needs ROM & disk swapping. And yes, right now I've emulated everything minus the DVD CPU & communication interface (can't identify it at the moment).



Kitsune Sniper
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Re: Mahjong DVD arcade game new [Re: Kale]
#234761 - 09/27/10 12:10 AM


> > > Thank you very much for the list matey.
> > >
> > > Do you know if any of the above DVDs will work with my hardware?
> > >
> > > Or do I have to buy the mobo for each different one?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance d00d.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Ralph.
> >
> > OK, after seeing the hardware and Kale's work on the driverI now realise what a
> > st00p1d question this is!
> >
> > Looks like I'm gonna be busy.
> >
> > If anyone wants to throw some money at me to try to get some more of these, who am
> I
> > to refuse.
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Ralph.
> >
> > P.S. I'll start a new thread for Kale's WIP if I have'nt been beaten to it.
>
> PCB layout makes me think that it just needs ROM & disk swapping. And yes, right now
> I've emulated everything minus the DVD CPU & communication interface (can't identify
> it at the moment).

So when the game's supposed to display DVD video, it does nothing, right?

Does it crash with an error, or just go to the next game?



R. Belmont
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: Kale]
#234771 - 09/27/10 02:36 AM


> >
> > I though I read a while back a dev, prolly Belmont, saying that you could probably
> > just get the original arcade software in the ROMS to decrypt the mpegs for you
> > without having to put any algorithums into MAME itself...
>
> Which is exactly what we'll end up doing for this anyway.

Incorrect. If a chip decodes MPEG2, we're on the hook for the patents and you cannot implement the decoding. If the game has a fast CPU/DSP that does the decoding in software (which I tend to doubt based on the board pictures), then we're clear.



Kale
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#234772 - 09/27/10 03:03 AM


> > >
> > > I though I read a while back a dev, prolly Belmont, saying that you could
> probably
> > > just get the original arcade software in the ROMS to decrypt the mpegs for you
> > > without having to put any algorithums into MAME itself...
> >
> > Which is exactly what we'll end up doing for this anyway.
>
> Incorrect. If a chip decodes MPEG2, we're on the hook for the patents and you cannot
> implement the decoding. If the game has a fast CPU/DSP that does the decoding in
> software (which I tend to doubt based on the board pictures), then we're clear.

Yes, I've mis-read the thing.
I meant to just decode the video with external lossless software then hook that up, it'll end up in being at least one billion time bigger but it bypass the need of decoding the MPEG. Guess that I don't have any other choice right now ...



CrapBoardSoftware
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#234795 - 09/27/10 08:45 AM


> Incorrect. If a chip decodes MPEG2, we're on the hook for the patents and you cannot
> implement the decoding. If the game has a fast CPU/DSP that does the decoding in
> software (which I tend to doubt based on the board pictures), then we're clear.

Why makes this such a difference?



Matty_
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: CrapBoardSoftware]
#234796 - 09/27/10 08:56 AM


> Why makes this such a difference?

If it has dedicated silicon for decoding MPEG, MAME would have to emulate the MPEG decoding functionality, without a patent license to do so.

If the game has a general purpose CPU or DSP running an MPEG decoding program, MAME only needs to emulate the CPU or DSP. MAME won't contain code requiring an MPEG patent license. Sure, you still won't have a license to run the program, but that's the case with most ROMs anyway.

Bunch of ROM pirating MAME users all of you



AtTheMoment
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#234797 - 09/27/10 09:03 AM


> > >
> > > I though I read a while back a dev, prolly Belmont, saying that you could
> probably
> > > just get the original arcade software in the ROMS to decrypt the mpegs for you
> > > without having to put any algorithums into MAME itself...
> >
> > Which is exactly what we'll end up doing for this anyway.
>
> Incorrect. If a chip decodes MPEG2, we're on the hook for the patents and you cannot
> implement the decoding. If the game has a fast CPU/DSP that does the decoding in
> software (which I tend to doubt based on the board pictures), then we're clear.

Probably a naive question, but how is this different than ZIP (which I thought patented up the wazoo)? Can't something like MPEG decoding be done as OSD functions? There are lots of MPEG decoding libraries and services supplied by DirectX and SDL that could be used without any actual patent-infringing source code in MAME, correct? I mean, if I want to read or write a Maya file, I don't reverse-engineer their binary format. I just call their supplied DLL to get the data into my own format. Isn't that also how open-source image and video editing programs do it?



jonwil
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: AtTheMoment]
#234803 - 09/27/10 12:53 PM


Zip is not patented.



StilettoAdministrator
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: AtTheMoment]
#234810 - 09/27/10 04:10 PM


> Probably a naive question, but how is this different than ZIP (which I thought
> patented up the wazoo)? Can't something like MPEG decoding be done as OSD functions?
> There are lots of MPEG decoding libraries and services supplied by DirectX and SDL
> that could be used without any actual patent-infringing source code in MAME, correct?
> I mean, if I want to read or write a Maya file, I don't reverse-engineer their binary
> format. I just call their supplied DLL to get the data into my own format. Isn't that
> also how open-source image and video editing programs do it?

Some games in MAME use 3dfx Voodoo cards. Why doesn't MAME just push out the triangles and scene information to a Glide wrapper or to a real 3dfx Voodoo card?

- Stiletto



R. Belmont
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: CrapBoardSoftware]
#234815 - 09/27/10 04:49 PM


> > Incorrect. If a chip decodes MPEG2, we're on the hook for the patents and you
> cannot
> > implement the decoding. If the game has a fast CPU/DSP that does the decoding in
> > software (which I tend to doubt based on the board pictures), then we're clear.
>
> Why makes this such a difference?

Because if the game does it in hardware, MAME has to do it in code, and thus MAMEdev is on the hook for the MPEG license. If the game does it in software, MAME itself contains no MPEG specific material and we're clear (same way as Intel doesn't need an MPEG license even though a Core 2 Duo can run WinDVD).



Naoki
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#234817 - 09/27/10 04:57 PM


Jus out of curiosity, what is required for a license to decode MPEG-2 Files and display the content anyway? Just a bucket load of cash or...?



R. Belmont
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: Naoki]
#234819 - 09/27/10 05:51 PM


> Jus out of curiosity, what is required for a license to decode MPEG-2 Files and
> display the content anyway? Just a bucket load of cash or...?

The bucket load of cash. Same reason Firefox doesn't display MPEG4 with the HTML5 video tag.



Naoki
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#234821 - 09/27/10 06:57 PM


No license. Makes sense. Shame we can't use MAME's output system to output to a real DVD MPEG Decoder



Gatinho
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Re: Do you connect the toaster in serial, or parallel? new [Re: Kitsune Sniper]
#234975 - 09/29/10 06:50 AM


>Every time you get a nudie girl, you get perfect toast.

lol.

>they do appear on Yahoo Auctions Japan every now and then.

Wha! Isn't that all in Japanese? Well, if you see one, and remember me, and if it's not too much trouble... give me a heads up plz.

Either way, thanks for the tip.




Gatinho
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: jonwil]
#234978 - 09/29/10 06:57 AM


>Zip is not patented.

Thank God, because I hate button fly jeans.



AtTheMoment
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: Stiletto]
#234981 - 09/29/10 07:39 AM


> > Probably a naive question, but how is this different than ZIP (which I thought
> > patented up the wazoo)? Can't something like MPEG decoding be done as OSD
> functions?
> > There are lots of MPEG decoding libraries and services supplied by DirectX and SDL
> > that could be used without any actual patent-infringing source code in MAME,
> correct?
> > I mean, if I want to read or write a Maya file, I don't reverse-engineer their
> binary
> > format. I just call their supplied DLL to get the data into my own format. Isn't
> that
> > also how open-source image and video editing programs do it?
>
> Some games in MAME use 3dfx Voodoo cards. Why doesn't MAME just push out the
> triangles and scene information to a Glide wrapper or to a real 3dfx Voodoo card?
>
> - Stiletto

I'm not talking about HLE. MPEG is a well-defined specification, so compliant implementations should produce identical results. If the OS can supply a service that allows for something like OSD_DecodeIFrame(dataChunkIn, rawRGBOut), why not use it? Doesn't already MAME already use DirectX and SDL to manipulate graphic data instead of doing it all in software? And haven't MAME developers been discussing using pixel shaders to accurately emulate different hardware rasterizers? So how would this be different?



jonwil
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: AtTheMoment]
#234999 - 09/29/10 03:51 PM


Not all operating systems that MAME runs on will have libraries capable of decoding the relavent MPEG data. Some linux installs will have no MPEG video codecs at all (due to the patent issues). Other OSs (windows maybe) can play back normal MPEG2 video but cant do the kind of raw decoding MAME would require.



StilettoAdministrator
They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: jonwil]
#235004 - 09/29/10 05:08 PM


> Not all operating systems that MAME runs on will have libraries capable of decoding
> the relavent MPEG data. Some linux installs will have no MPEG video codecs at all
> (due to the patent issues). Other OSs (windows maybe) can play back normal MPEG2
> video but cant do the kind of raw decoding MAME would require.

My opinion:

And let's not forget that MAME emulates the processors, warts and all. Or at least that's the goal - if it happens on hardware, it'll happen on MAME. What if an MPEG2 implementation inside a CPU/DSP/decoding chip had errata?

Also - my experience is that there can be subtle differences in the "output" of MPEG2 decoders, usually happening after the decoder chip though.

Agreeing with jonwil: In general the goal is not to be dependent on any libraries that don't already come with the OS (especially closed-source libraries). Hence the former clause regarding these, which was removed in the interest of license simplification but informally, as far as I know, still stands.

- Stiletto

Edited by Stiletto (09/30/10 06:20 PM)



etabeta
Reged: 08/25/04
Posts: 2035
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: Stiletto]
#235012 - 09/29/10 06:39 PM


> Hence the
> former clause regarding these, which was removed in the interest of license
> simplification but informally, as far as I know, still stands.
>


it's still there (for non-open source libraries)


Quote:


Redistributions that are modified from the original source must include the complete source code, including the source code for all components used by a binary built from the modified sources.





StilettoAdministrator
They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: etabeta]
#235146 - 09/30/10 06:20 PM


> > Hence the
> > former clause regarding these, which was removed in the interest of license
> > simplification but informally, as far as I know, still stands.
> >
>
> it's still there (for non-open source libraries)
>
> Redistributions that are modified from the original source must include the complete
> source code, including the source code for all components used by a binary built from
> the modified sources.

Ah, it was hiding from my eyes.

- Stiletto



R. Belmont
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Re: Wait a second... new [Re: AtTheMoment]
#235164 - 09/30/10 09:13 PM


> Doesn't already MAME already use DirectX and SDL to manipulate graphic data instead
> of doing it all in software?

(PBS "Masterpiece Theater" intro music plays)

Ahh, yes, the time-honored gambit of accusing MAMEdev of hypocrisy so they'll do what you want. Many more skilled than you have attempted it before, old chap, and they've all failed. You know why? MAMEdev doesn't feel shame. They read your post, decide it's a lot of hassle just so people can wank to cosplay, and they wait for your patch. Make sure it works on at least the 3 major operating systems or it'll probably be rejected out of hand.

And now, David Hasselhoff and William Shatner in "Hamlet".


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