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Sune
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Model 2 Emulator v1.0
#242340 - 01/01/11 08:23 AM



Quote:



Finally the 1.0 version .

- Finally fixed VF2 hair problems, now all graphics are correct.
- Added LUA script support for options, cheats and other uses (check model2lua.txt in SCRIPTS folder)
- Added texture replacement support (check model2lua.txt in SCRIPTS folder)
- Added widescreen support (needs per-game lua scripts to know when to enable it). Requires a wide fullscreen resolution or WideScreenWindow set in emulator.ini
- Fixed texture border detection for textures that caused wrong colors & pixelation on borders
- Simplified pixel shaders (half the texture fetches)
- Improved House of the dead FM sound
- Fixed VF2 wrong sound speeds
- Fixed background distortion on Dural stage in VF2
- Added STCC Euro
- Added Sonic the fighters.
- Fixed Virtual On missing background color on title screen
- Rewritten SCSP code for improved accuracy
- Fixed ATI video card gfx problems
- Fixed audio stuttering on some windows 7 machines
- Added Sega Rally Championship rev B




http://nebula.emulatronia.com/

S



CiroConsentino
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Sune]
#242350 - 01/01/11 02:30 PM


Holly Cow!



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Cable
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Sune]
#242368 - 01/01/11 06:23 PM


Excellent to see ElSemi's great emulator improving! Quality takes time!



Naoki
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Sune]
#242369 - 01/01/11 06:23 PM


Every game I seem to load makes M2 crash and burn..



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On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2



ElSemi
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Naoki]
#242381 - 01/01/11 08:09 PM


Which videocard? now pixel shader 3.0 is required.
Update directx to at least Feb 2010



Chine
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: ElSemi]
#242382 - 01/01/11 08:18 PM


Great version ElSemi !!

Could the fix for VF2 improve Model1 emulation in MAME ?



Naoki
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: ElSemi]
#242383 - 01/01/11 08:23 PM


nVidia GeForce 7600 GS AGP.



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R. Belmont
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Chine]
#242384 - 01/01/11 08:25 PM


> Great version ElSemi !!
>
> Could the fix for VF2 improve Model1 emulation in MAME ?

VF2 is not Model 1.

If any of his SCSP changes are applicable I'd love to see them though



Chine
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: R. Belmont]
#242388 - 01/01/11 09:10 PM



> VF2 is not Model 1.
>
They share the TGP coprocessor , don't they ?



Hadou Ken
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Naoki]
#242392 - 01/01/11 09:42 PM


I have the same video card.
BFG Nvidia GeForce 7600 GS AGP
graphics drivers 260.99

No crashes.



GreatLamer
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: CiroConsentino]
#242394 - 01/01/11 10:27 PM


Very good work, very nice widescreen improvement on sega rally for example.

A few minor things:

- in widescreen mode Virtua Cop hit point come inner than the crosshair center, so the targeting not exact on the edges

- the cursor able to hit the left and the top edge of the screen but not the right and the bottom, impossible to shoot the very right side because the cursor doesn't move out from the edge

- RAW input useless for 1 or 2 lightgun (T**gun tested), I know thats not exactly a bug but a nice wannabe to guns working :-).

Again, thanks and a happy new year!



Naoki
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Hadou Ken]
#242396 - 01/01/11 10:59 PM


It turned out my DirectX was out of date.

Now if I could just get force feedback working



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On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2



CrapBoardSoftware
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Chine]
#242426 - 01/02/11 05:15 AM


> > VF2 is not Model 1.
> >
> They share the TGP coprocessor , don't they ?

Not exactly. Model 1 is Fujitsu MB86233 (no documentation available), Model 2 is SHARC DSP (from Model 2B on).



R. Belmont
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: CrapBoardSoftware]
#242438 - 01/02/11 06:39 AM


> Not exactly. Model 1 is Fujitsu MB86233 (no documentation available), Model 2 is
> SHARC DSP (from Model 2B on).

VF2 does use the MB86233. It's unclear from the documentation if the fix in question was to the TGP emulation or some other aspect of the emulation however (ElSemi?)



ElSemi
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: R. Belmont]
#242444 - 01/02/11 12:39 PM


Yes, it was a TGP bug (in an opcode that only VF2 uses).
Dual Move, mode 1: load RAM to A and External to B, the
registers used to index these were swapped (A RAM must be indexed by r0+r2 and B External by r1+r3), that caused reading far beyond RAM size, reading garbage and actually looking quite good by chance . It was when I reordered some values in the context structure that caused it reading different values, and showed garbage polys when I realized where the problem was.
I'm adding some assert to RAM access to check the limits to see if there is another wrong opcode somewhere else.



AndyGeezer
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: ElSemi]
#242446 - 01/02/11 01:27 PM


Elsemi, you rock..

Oneday I will document Sega Emulation of Daytona against Elsemi's



I suspect it was developed by Chinese developers - like a lot of new Sega games.

This is the SRC PCB, game sits on a CompactFlash, everything is intergrated, the new security module concept.

Apparently the PCB just runs on a 12VDC source..



CiroConsentino
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: ElSemi]
#242448 - 01/02/11 01:48 PM


excellent work, as always



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Naoki
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: AndyGeezer]
#242461 - 01/02/11 05:04 PM


Is that what a RingWide(/Edge) looks like inside? Or is this a dedicated board?



----
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AndyGeezer
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Naoki]
#242465 - 01/02/11 06:55 PM


> Is that what a RingWide(/Edge) looks like inside? Or is this a dedicated board?

RingEdge PCB.. RingWide is more Lindbergh like.



Naoki
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: AndyGeezer]
#242472 - 01/02/11 10:28 PM


Oh right, thanks.



----
On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2



Nomax
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: AndyGeezer]
#242618 - 01/04/11 01:10 PM


> > Is that what a RingWide(/Edge) looks like inside? Or is this a dedicated board?
>
> RingEdge PCB.. RingWide is more Lindbergh like.

Isn't it the other way around?

This look likes a RingWide PCB on the pic. RingEdge has an external graphic card.

By the way, I read somewhere (don't remember where) that Sega Racing Classic wasn't emulation based but that it was ported. I don't know if it's true or not.

Indeed Sega Racing Classic looks better than the old PC port of Daytona USA but it still doesn't play like the Model 2 version. Did you check the CF card content? (I mean are there ROM images on it?) Or does the protection prevent access to card filesystem?



--------------------
NPlayers.ini - The multiplayer description file for MAME. (Linux user #448789)



AndyGeezer
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Nomax]
#242619 - 01/04/11 01:25 PM


It isn't emulated, it is a re-write using the original code. Chinese special, like the dreamcast ports.

Long story short - Sega opted for re-write using Chinese developers as opposed to use emulators - why?? Because Sega wants to give work to China instead of Europeans..



Nomax
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: AndyGeezer]
#242620 - 01/04/11 02:00 PM


> Long story short - Sega opted for re-write using Chinese developers as opposed to use
> emulators - why?? Because Sega wants to give work to China instead of Europeans..

Unfortunately, they didn't manage to reproduce the original gameplay. Is it due to mechanical differences then? :-/

Sega invested in a Chinese dev studio lately. They try to maximize their investment I guess. Maybe it's the same people who developed Golden Gun and that Sega Racing Classic was a test for them. Plus Chinese workers are cheaper than Europeans.

The good thing about Japanese manufacturers opening to the rest of Asia market wise is that more games are getting translated into English. For example, the English version of Initial D 6 was location tested at the same time in Tokyo (Japanese version) and Hong Kong (English version). Hopefully this will encourage import of such titles...



Naibo
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: ElSemi]
#242667 - 01/04/11 10:27 PM


Very valuable information, and great emulator!
In the past I thought that M2emulator do high-level T&L DSP emulation using vertex shader.



Outrun2006
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: AndyGeezer]
#242725 - 01/05/11 09:43 AM


It isn't emulated, it is a re-write using the original code. Chinese special, like
> the dreamcast ports.
>
> Long story short - Sega opted for re-write using Chinese developers as opposed to use
> emulators - why?? Because Sega wants to give work to China instead of Europeans..

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


That is a very interesting piece if information Andy. I was unaware of this. Thanks for sharing. Sounds like it's better to play Daytona via the M2 emu than SRC.



AndyGeezer
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Nomax]
#242731 - 01/05/11 01:07 PM


> > Long story short - Sega opted for re-write using Chinese developers as opposed to
> use
> > emulators - why?? Because Sega wants to give work to China instead of Europeans..
>
> Unfortunately, they didn't manage to reproduce the original gameplay. Is it due to
> mechanical differences then? :-/
>
> Sega invested in a Chinese dev studio lately. They try to maximize their investment I
> guess. Maybe it's the same people who developed Golden Gun and that Sega Racing
> Classic was a test for them. Plus Chinese workers are cheaper than Europeans.
>
> The good thing about Japanese manufacturers opening to the rest of Asia market wise
> is that more games are getting translated into English. For example, the English
> version of Initial D 6 was location tested at the same time in Tokyo (Japanese
> version) and Hong Kong (English version). Hopefully this will encourage import of
> such titles...

When I played this at the EAG, I thought it played like a sack of spuds - it was nothing like the original handling wise - to me it felt like it was a single servo for the feedback.

However I got the manual and it is using the same feedback system as the original Daytona (particle/clutch motor) - so maybe the UK version has a single servo motor, and the Japan is more like the original. The feedback board is also an emulation of the original daytona feedback board.

Either way the game is not a patch on the original..

Chinese developers are cheaper than Europeans for sure, but the games from China and Taiwan are not good.

Crazy Speed - People actually laughed at this - I like how they bootlegged the Sega gullbox seat from M3 racers.

http://www.crazy-speed.com/

Golden Gun - well I didn't hear any good report on this - it is the HOTD4 code pretty much recycled, even re-use some of the original textures and one of the enemies is the same. 2Spicy guns painted gold is cheap also..

I alot of the newer lindbergh games where out-sourced projects - Rambo was done by Polygon Magic (same company behind Maximum Tune for Namco), Hummer (I believe this was done in part by some Korean team), but down as SegaNS developed. Obviously it is hard to tell who does what as there is no AM teams.



Outrun2006
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: AndyGeezer]
#242741 - 01/05/11 05:09 PM


what about the linbergh version of outrun 2 sp dx?



AndyGeezer
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Outrun2006]
#242755 - 01/05/11 07:34 PM


OR2SDX is pretty much a port of the Chihiro version, it was pretty easy to rebuild it for the Lindbergh.

Only difference is it is 16:9, as they bumped the resolution to 848x480 (why it wasn't done to 1280x768 or 1366x768) is beyond me, as the game must look really blocky on the 60" Screen.

The only difference is the second wheel and the actuator stuff which is hooked up via Com1/Com2, which is all driven by Panasonic equipment.

The original game is AM2 developed, I think the other part was credited to AM4/SegaNS



R. Belmont
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: AndyGeezer]
#242785 - 01/05/11 11:37 PM


> OR2SDX is pretty much a port of the Chihiro version, it was pretty easy to rebuild it
> for the Lindbergh.

Yup, Xbox 1 to Windows is a very easy port. (It's harder than with the 360, actually).

> Only difference is it is 16:9, as they bumped the resolution to 848x480 (why it
> wasn't done to 1280x768 or 1366x768) is beyond me, as the game must look really
> blocky on the 60" Screen.

That's very strange. Probably they didn't bother to redo the art assets from Chihiro and bumping up the res would've expose their limitations too much.

ETA: removed rogue word that reversed my intended meaning.

Edited by R. Belmont (01/06/11 05:45 PM)



Nomax
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: R. Belmont]
#242798 - 01/06/11 02:47 AM


> I alot of the newer lindbergh games where out-sourced projects

So they're outsourcing game dev. Interesting... That must be the direct effect of Sega's 2009 announcement "to slash research and development costs by at least 20%".

> However I got the manual and it is using the same feedback system as the original Daytona (particle/clutch motor) - so maybe the UK version has a single servo motor, and the Japan is more like the original. The feedback board is also an emulation of the original daytona feedback board.

I also felt that the handling was totally fucked up compared to the original. Being a Chinese developed game, do you think they made a different cabinet for the UK? Maybe the game code is bugged and that it doesn't react as originally intended?

> > OR2SDX is pretty much a port of the Chihiro version, it was pretty easy to rebuild
> it
> > for the Lindbergh.
>
> Yup, Xbox 1 to Windows is a very easy port. (It's harder than with the 360,
> actually).

hmm... Lindbergh is running Linux, not Windows. But both Chihiro and Lindbergh use an NVIDIA gfx chip so I guess "adapting" their DirectX code to OpenGL wasn't hard to do.

>
> > Only difference is it is 16:9, as they bumped the resolution to 848x480 (why it
> > wasn't done to 1280x768 or 1366x768) is beyond me, as the game must look really
> > blocky on the 60" Screen.
>
> That's very strange. Probably they didn't bother to redo the art assets from Chihiro
> and bumping up the res would've expose their limitations too much.

Or they just quickly ported the game engine without optimizing it at all. Same apply for Ghost Squad Evolution. Graphics wise, I don't see any difference with the original Chihiro game (I only saw the beta version at ATEI though so maybe final game was more polished?).



Naoki
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Nomax]
#242802 - 01/06/11 02:55 AM


I have trouble seeing any difference to Ghost Squad Evolution oer the original. Same goes for why they used the Python 2 in DS Fusion over the Sys573, not much different other than videoa..



AndyGeezer
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Nomax]
#242838 - 01/06/11 11:48 AM


OR2SDX is Monta Vista Linux Kernel with XFree, I believe it OpenGL based, needs a certian nvidia linux driver, otherwise you get shader errors, it needs an older kernel anyway (like VF5/VT3) to run as they changed the com port naming conventions from /dev/ttyS0 to /dev/tts/0

Lindbergh Blue is Windows XP Embedded and even then they use a mix of DirectX and freeglut/openGL - the Windows/Linux code is pretty much identical..

Ghost Squad Evo like OR2SDX was just a recompile of the Chihiro version, GFX where a 1:1 recycled for sure. Chihiro was discontinued, and I am guessing there was still demand for Ghost Squad at the time (it was the biggest shooter in 2005).

Games like primeval hunt and 2spicy (and even Rambo) arep pretty bad, I've seen better 3D on a freeware games - so I am 99% sure these where not done by seasoned development teams, or maybe Sega did not do the same level of API/LIBs that they had for say Dreamcast development.

On the plus side I love the Lindbergh, and still has many future classics and obviously will have the last version of Virtua Fighter, although I doubt I'll ever see it..



Outrun2006
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: AndyGeezer]
#242847 - 01/06/11 04:05 PM


OR2SDX is Monta Vista Linux Kernel with XFree, I believe it OpenGL based, needs a
> certian nvidia linux driver, otherwise you get shader errors, it needs an older
> kernel anyway (like VF5/VT3) to run as they changed the com port naming conventions
> from /dev/ttyS0 to /dev/tts/0
>
> Lindbergh Blue is Windows XP Embedded and even then they use a mix of DirectX and
> freeglut/openGL - the Windows/Linux code is pretty much identical..
>
> Ghost Squad Evo like OR2SDX was just a recompile of the Chihiro version, GFX where a
> 1:1 recycled for sure. Chihiro was discontinued, and I am guessing there was still
> demand for Ghost Squad at the time (it was the biggest shooter in 2005).
>
> Games like primeval hunt and 2spicy (and even Rambo) arep pretty bad, I've seen
> better 3D on a freeware games - so I am 99% sure these where not done by seasoned
> development teams, or maybe Sega did not do the same level of API/LIBs that they had
> for say Dreamcast development.
>
> On the plus side I love the Lindbergh, and still has many future classics and
> obviously will have the last version of Virtua Fighter, although I doubt I'll ever
> see it..


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Andy, you are a walking encyclopedia of all things Sega arcade! We appreciate these inside bits of interesting information.

I don't know if you remember me, but we actually communicated with each other via email something like 6 or 7 years ago. I'm "Isamu". I went on your website and asked you how easy it was to be able to connect more than one model 2 and model 3 PCBs together, so that I would be able to switch between them with the push of a button, or something to that effect, and you replied with a wealth of information explaining why it wouldn't be feasible due to the way the two boards differ from each other.

Anyway let me ask you something....given your previous comments, am I correct in assuming that you are of the opinion that the PC version of OR 2006 C2C is a better port than the Lindbergh version of OR2SP DX? Have you played the PC version, and if so, how would you rate it? It obviously is missing force feedback, but let's assume it has it, then what would you grade it?



Naoki
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Outrun2006]
#242851 - 01/06/11 04:45 PM


Shouldn't this go into a different topic or PM's? You're going way off the original topic.



Nomax
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Outrun2006]
#243000 - 01/07/11 01:16 PM


> Anyway let me ask you something....given your previous comments, am I correct in
> assuming that you are of the opinion that the PC version of OR 2006 C2C is a better
> port than the Lindbergh version of OR2SP DX? Have you played the PC version, and if
> so, how would you rate it? It obviously is missing force feedback, but let's assume
> it has it, then what would you grade it?

Sorry, I know the question if for Andy but I hope you don't mind if I give my opinion as I own the PC version...

Regarding graphics, OutRun 2006 on PC looks way better than OurRun2 SP SDX on Lindbergh because of the higher resolution. SDX on the large screens is aliased as hell when compared to the PC version (I guess it also depends on your graphics card).

Gameplay wise, I only played the PC version with a cheapos steering wheel but I got fed up quite quickly. The arcade version is much more enjoyable. Handling feels way different. Not only SP SDX has force feedback but also a motion cabinet! You can't beat that!

But as you said "let's assume it has force feedback". Let's say that graphically, PC version looks better but car behaves a bit differently. I didn't run the game for a long time but AFAIR, PC version was quite bugged too.



Outrun2006
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Nomax]
#243002 - 01/07/11 03:00 PM


Sorry, I know the question if for Andy but I hope you don't mind if I give my opinion
> as I own the PC version...
>
> Regarding graphics, OutRun 2006 on PC looks way better than OurRun2 SP SDX on
> Lindbergh because of the higher resolution. SDX on the large screens is aliased as
> hell when compared to the PC version (I guess it also depends on your graphics card).
>
> Gameplay wise, I only played the PC version with a cheapos steering wheel but I got
> fed up quite quickly. The arcade version is much more enjoyable. Handling feels way
> different. Not only SP SDX has force feedback but also a motion cabinet! You can't
> beat that!
>
> But as you said "let's assume it has force feedback". Let's say that graphically, PC
> version looks better but car behaves a bit differently. I didn't run the game for a
> long time but AFAIR, PC version was quite bugged too.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Hi Nomax. Great post. Lots of good points you've made about the PC version is. I was the VERY first person to buy it here in California, and played the hell out of it DESPITE the lack of force feedback. It is indeed very buggy in some areas, but boy is it gorgeous! It don't recall having any issues with the handling though. The way the vehicle handles and drifts are pretty much the same as when I played the game on the original xbox.

Can you elaborate on why you feel the handling is different from Lindbergh SP DX? Is the analog control more responsive on the arcade cabinet or something?

The only thing the PC version does have for some people that is an issue regarding steering, is a deadzone on some wheels. To be honest however, I don't have any deadzone issues on my ECCI 7000 FFB wheel. The steering is good as far as I can tell.

On a side note Nomax, you may be interested to know that there is a person I know, who is one of the administrators over at the Toca Edit forums, who is trying.....again, I cannot emphasize this word enough....t_r_y_i_n_g to hack into the pc version and put in force feedback. I haven't seen him post in his own forum for like three weeks, so I must assume he is very busy attempting to get this done! There are absolutely no guarantees he will succeed but without going into detail, this guy has done some AMAZING things for my steering wheel!

If he is successful, I have vouched to sell my home to him for absolutely nothing



RetroRepair
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Re: Model 2 Emulator v1.0 new [Re: Sune]
#243864 - 01/17/11 08:50 PM



Quote:


- Added LUA script support for options, cheats and other uses (check model2lua.txt in SCRIPTS folder)




This seems the most interesting part to me. Though I'm having trouble understanding the model2lua.txt, does this mean we can now access the outputs from each game like lamp outputs, actual FFB data etc or is that not what this is for? It's a bit vague.

Native fullscreen resolutions would be nice too for output to 24khz monitors, though I suppose this is outside the scope of the scripting.

Is there talk anywhere of this? I could only find one topic on spielsnk about scanlines/texture replacment.


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