MAMEWorld Central >> Hardware
View all threads Index   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Pages: 1

RetroRepair
MAME Fan
Reged: 12/21/09
Posts: 258
Send PM


Racing Jam/Thrill Drive Timekeeper Question
#244131 - 01/21/11 07:17 PM


So I have one working Racing Jam and several non-working boards due to the dreaded timekeeper failure and my question is this; are operator settings saved in the SRAM of the timekeepers or is it just protetional data stored there? It'd be great to just replace them with a normal 27C64 containing the data pulled from the working board but the settings for twin and difficulty would need to be changed periodically.

If settings are stored there and I did use an eprom, would the settings change until the cabinet was powered off or would the game simply refuse to function since it can't write the data to the SRAM?

Any help on this would be very much appreciated since I need these working asap.

Obviously the data would be available to MAMEdev since this is the european version and differs to the current asian dump in MAME (shifter type and probably other things).



http://www.youtube.com/retrorepair



Bally
Regular
Reged: 11/25/03
Posts: 398
Loc: Norway
Send PM


Re: Racing Jam/Thrill Drive Timekeeper Question new [Re: RetroRepair]
#244268 - 01/23/11 02:55 AM


> So I have one working Racing Jam and several non-working boards due to the dreaded
> timekeeper failure and my question is this; are operator settings saved in the SRAM
> of the timekeepers or is it just protetional data stored there? It'd be great to just
> replace them with a normal 27C64 containing the data pulled from the working board
> but the settings for twin and difficulty would need to be changed periodically.
>
> If settings are stored there and I did use an eprom, would the settings change until
> the cabinet was powered off or would the game simply refuse to function since it
> can't write the data to the SRAM?
>
> Any help on this would be very much appreciated since I need these working asap.
>
> Obviously the data would be available to MAMEdev since this is the european version
> and differs to the current asian dump in MAME (shifter type and probably other
> things).


I have the same problem here with an Silent Scope and have been told that when the timekeeper Ic dies you need to replace it and it needs to be programed for the game to work.

The only one that could do that close to me was Electrocoin in the UK...so i send it to them and it took 6 months to get it back !

I also have an Racing Jam board with the same error "hardware error 7" and it needs the same treatment as Silent Scope....

So if anyone one have an better solution it will be great !



Three swiss witch-bitches, which wished to be switched swiss
witch-bitches,wish to watch three swiss Swatch watch switches. Which swiss
witch-bitch which wishes to be a switched swiss witch-bitch, wishes to
watch which swiss Swatch watch switch?



R. Belmont
Cookoo for Konami
Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 9552
Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
Send PM


Re: Racing Jam/Thrill Drive Timekeeper Question new [Re: Bally]
#244280 - 01/23/11 06:18 AM


> I have the same problem here with an Silent Scope and have been told that when the
> timekeeper Ic dies you need to replace it and it needs to be programed for the game
> to work.

Your problem's easier than his - if you can get a new Timekeeper or attach a new battery to your old one, you just need to program it with the dumped Timekeeper data for that game out of the MAME ROM set. The TimeKeeper data dump is named some variant of "m48t58y" in most of the sets.

Edited by R. Belmont (01/23/11 06:18 AM)



R. Belmont
Cookoo for Konami
Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 9552
Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
Send PM


Re: Racing Jam/Thrill Drive Timekeeper Question new [Re: RetroRepair]
#244281 - 01/23/11 06:31 AM


> If settings are stored there and I did use an eprom, would the settings change until
> the cabinet was powered off or would the game simply refuse to function since it
> can't write the data to the SRAM?

I couldn't check Racing Jam itself since it doesn't boot in MAME, but based on the behavior of other Konami games on the same and similar hardware it looks like the settings in the operator menu are stored in the TimeKeeper. From what I could see, as long as the TK contents are valid on boot, you could probably get away with it not being writeable, but I can't guarantee that.

Incidentally, do you happen to have documentation on what the LED codes for Racing Jam mean? MAME goes through a bunch of numbers and then stops on "50" when it dies.

Edited by R. Belmont (01/23/11 06:33 AM)



RetroRepair
MAME Fan
Reged: 12/21/09
Posts: 258
Send PM


Re: Racing Jam/Thrill Drive Timekeeper Question new [Re: R. Belmont]
#244358 - 01/24/11 04:30 AM



Quote:


Incidentally, do you happen to have documentation on what the LED codes for Racing Jam mean? MAME goes through a bunch of numbers and then stops on "50" when it dies.




I don't but I am happy to help in any way I can to get this driver doing something interesting.

I have to get a test setup made for these so I can tell you what it's doing when it halts on this error which might give you some insight as to what they mean.

If you need to know anything else let me know.



http://www.youtube.com/retrorepair



RetroRepair
MAME Fan
Reged: 12/21/09
Posts: 258
Send PM


Re: Racing Jam/Thrill Drive Timekeeper Question new [Re: R. Belmont]
#244359 - 01/24/11 04:32 AM



Quote:


you just need to program it with the dumped Timekeeper data for that game out of the MAME ROM set




How does one program a timekeeper? this one is readable as a 27c64 so can it be programmed as one? It's ram as opposed to rom, does that matter?



http://www.youtube.com/retrorepair



R. Belmont
Cookoo for Konami
Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 9552
Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
Send PM


Re: Racing Jam/Thrill Drive Timekeeper Question new [Re: RetroRepair]
#244697 - 01/26/11 11:00 PM


> you just need to program it with the dumped Timekeeper data for that game out of the
> MAME ROM set
>
> How does one program a timekeeper? this one is readable as a 27c64 so can it be
> programmed as one? It's ram as opposed to rom, does that matter?

It should theoretically just work that way, although Guru's the one with the practical knowledge. Maybe he'll answer some time



NolensvilleSteve
MAME Fan
Reged: 12/06/12
Posts: 2
Send PM


Re: Racing Jam/Thrill Drive Timekeeper Question new [Re: RetroRepair]
#300124 - 12/06/12 02:07 PM


I find this thread very timely. I normally do a lot of pinball work and a friend of mine referred someone to me who has a Racing Jam board that gets an RTC error. He has had ZERO luck finding anyone who can help so I'm going to give it a try. I found some replacement timekeeper chips and when I researched them I figured it was just battery backed RAM. However after reading this thread it appears that there is some kind of image stored there too. Is that the case? If it is then I guess I need to find the image file too. My programmer supports the M48T58Y device so I will try to read the old chip first and hope I can pull the file from there, assuming the battery is OK.

Before I start - for those who may know, is that the normal procedure for these devices? Program them with an EPROM burner for the game they're being used for? If that's true then I guess the game's program must then use the memory space as RAM and not ROM, or they would have just used an EPROM, right?

I'd love to see some documentation about the theory of operation for these machines to get insight on what the program is doing, and how it uses this device. Even a schematic would be great.

One more question - is there a way to check the condition of the battery on the device? I'll go and find the datasheet but I just thought I'd ask you guy (and gals) first.

Thanks for any insight from this MAME-newb.

steve



R. Belmont
Cookoo for Konami
Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 9552
Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
Send PM


Re: Racing Jam/Thrill Drive Timekeeper Question new [Re: NolensvilleSteve]
#300181 - 12/07/12 06:38 PM


They *are* battery-backed RAM, but they're normally factory-preset to include some data the game checks for in order to boot (rather like the copy protection dongles some PC apps use).

The MAME ROM sets include data read from working TimeKeepers to allow the emulated game to pass its copy protection and that data can be programmed into a new TimeKeeper to "un-suicide" the hardware. I don't know the exact procedure because I haven't had to do it myself, but RetroRepair indicates they can be read like a 27C64 in an EPROM reader so I would try just programming it at a 27c64. The data you need should be the file called "m48t58y".



RetroRepair
MAME Fan
Reged: 12/21/09
Posts: 258
Send PM


Re: Racing Jam/Thrill Drive Timekeeper Question new [Re: R. Belmont]
#300205 - 12/07/12 11:50 PM


I never did try a 27C64 but I'd assume there'd be no issue until you tried to save data to it. It may just fail quietly or it may stop the game in it's tracks. Hopefully it'll keep playing and only changes data when you do so in settings. If MAME can run this game at some point then in theory you could set up how you want your cab set up in MAME then take the timekeeper file and burn that to a rom.

To program the M48T58Y with a normal programmer you need to short pin 26 to pin 28 as pin 26 needs to be held high when programmed and read. If you get an error right at the end of verify don't worry. It's a time keeper and the last couple of bytes are the current time

If you programmer directly supports it you should be ok though.

These ICs will all be dead at some point and I'm pretty sure they have not been made for a long while. If you bought some NOS I'd say they are well into their shelf life.



http://www.youtube.com/retrorepair



Naoki
Reged: 11/10/09
Posts: 1980
Loc: UK
Send PM


Re: Racing Jam/Thrill Drive Timekeeper Question new [Re: RetroRepair]
#300217 - 12/08/12 01:55 AM


> I never did try a 27C64 but I'd assume there'd be no issue until you tried to save
> data to it. It may just fail quietly or it may stop the game in it's tracks.
> Hopefully it'll keep playing and only changes data when you do so in settings. If
> MAME can run this game at some point then in theory you could set up how you want
> your cab set up in MAME then take the timekeeper file and burn that to a rom.
>
> To program the M48T58Y with a normal programmer you need to short pin 26 to pin 28 as
> pin 26 needs to be held high when programmed and read. If you get an error right at
> the end of verify don't worry. It's a time keeper and the last couple of bytes are
> the current time
>
> If you programmer directly supports it you should be ok though.
>
> These ICs will all be dead at some point and I'm pretty sure they have not been made
> for a long while. If you bought some NOS I'd say they are well into their shelf life.

Should I be worried with my Gauntlet DL board? Yeah sure it's protection is an IC chip and not Timekeeper, but I have an OCD tendancy with the board telling me the time keeper battery is dead. (Which I fixed using a battery off of an IBM SCSI card, lol).



----
On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2



RetroRepair
MAME Fan
Reged: 12/21/09
Posts: 258
Send PM


Re: Racing Jam/Thrill Drive Timekeeper Question new [Re: Naoki]
#300223 - 12/08/12 03:53 AM


Well if the timekeeper died and the board kept going I'd say there's not much to worry about. If you managed to find a way to keep it ticking then no worries

I hear people resurrect CD-I consoles the same way.



http://www.youtube.com/retrorepair


Pages: 1

MAMEWorld Central >> Hardware
View all threads Index   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Extra information Permissions
Moderator:  Gatinho 
0 registered and 2 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is enabled
UBBCode is enabled
Thread views: 6489