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SmitdoggAdministrator
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New filter system in the works
#254556 - 05/15/11 02:02 AM Attachment: filty.jpg 871 KB (19 downloads)


-Currently being worked on
-Not sure which version it will be added in, maybe next release
-Don't know the minimum graphics card needed but a GeForce 8800 is good enough
-Click the pic and expand it to see it because the crunching screws it up

Video:
http://icips.us/emulation/crt/CRTTest_encoded.avi

[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]

Attachment



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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Smitdogg]
#254560 - 05/15/11 02:34 AM


> -Don't know the minimum graphics card needed but a GeForce 8800 is good enough

8600M GT seems fine too.



Wheeley
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Smitdogg]
#254566 - 05/15/11 03:11 AM


> -Currently being worked on
> -Not sure which version it will be added in, maybe next release
> -Don't know the minimum graphics card needed but a GeForce 8800 is good enough
> -Click the pic and expand it to see it because the crunching screws it up
>
> Video:
> http://icips.us/emulation/crt/CRTTest_encoded.avi

For games with artwork, does the filter affect the artwork also or only the "screen area" when artwork is turned on.

Wheeley



John IVModerator
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Smitdogg]
#254569 - 05/15/11 03:21 AM


Heh, his finest hour. Hopefully there'll be plenty of presets to go w/ the fine tuning capabilities.



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Ramirez
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Smitdogg]
#254571 - 05/15/11 03:28 AM


Awesome!!!!!!!!!
I was long waiting for something like this on mame(official).
Thanks.



TheGuru
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: John IV]
#254574 - 05/15/11 03:52 AM


> Heh, his finest hour. Hopefully there'll be plenty of presets to go w/ the fine
> tuning capabilities.

I hope so. the pic shown looks *nothing* like a real arcade monitor



Bryan Ischo
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Smitdogg]
#254575 - 05/15/11 03:59 AM


Very nice. Some of the examples show how important it is to have very high resolution LCDs to avoid uneven scanline effects. Lots of great work there though in any case.

Are these implemented just in the Windows MAME OSD? What about SDL?



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Bryan Ischo]
#254576 - 05/15/11 04:02 AM


I really don't have anymore info about it other than the bits I posted. I think the source is available on the MESS boards so you could have a gander.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: TheGuru]
#254577 - 05/15/11 04:05 AM


I think that pic was supposed to show an extreme of one/some of the effects. Supposedly it's highly customizable though I'm with John for hoping for presets or maybe some in-game sliders or something.



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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Smitdogg]
#254578 - 05/15/11 04:08 AM


Looks great!

Edited by Ceto (05/15/11 04:09 AM)



John IVModerator
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: TheGuru]
#254585 - 05/15/11 05:01 AM


Did you check the linked avi? That's got the nice effects.
No vector games though.



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RevO EmaG
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: John IV]
#254591 - 05/15/11 06:38 AM


> No vector games though.

Speaking of vector games....anyone know if this filter/effect is also being considered for future (sooner rather than later) inclusion in MAME/MESS?



etabeta
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Bryan Ischo]
#254594 - 05/15/11 08:04 AM


> Are these implemented just in the Windows MAME OSD? What about SDL?

yes, everything happens in Windows OSD. SDL will have to live without this for the time being (even if it already features support for GLSL shaders, which were and still are unsupported on Windows).

the core remains of course fully cross-platform, but some options are and will be OS-specific



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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: John IV]
#254595 - 05/15/11 08:04 AM


> Did you check the linked avi?

yeah
if my WG D9200 or Nanao MS8-26A arcade monitors looked as bad as that I'd have to send them off for repair



HowardC
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Smitdogg]
#254597 - 05/15/11 09:08 AM


I find the pin-cushion effect questionable.

Typically speaking most monitors had an anti-pincushion setting that you could use to compensate for the rounded tube. Yes there is a SLIGHT pin-cushion, but nothing nearly as bad as that.



etabeta
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: HowardC]
#254598 - 05/15/11 09:48 AM


> I find the pin-cushion effect questionable.

given that it's fully optional, I cannot see harm in it



DaffyDuck
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Smitdogg]
#254604 - 05/15/11 11:36 AM


> -Currently being worked on
> -Not sure which version it will be added in, maybe next release
> -Don't know the minimum graphics card needed but a GeForce 8800 is good enough
> -Click the pic and expand it to see it because the crunching screws it up
>
> Video:
> http://icips.us/emulation/crt/CRTTest_encoded.avi

will there be shader based filters like hq2x, scale2x etc. etc. ?

HLSLMAME / HLSLMESS Test 5
http://forums.bannister.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=69509&page=3


If someone can contact "Just Desserts" please let him know about the HLSL shaders:

HLSL.rar (6.04 KB) (HLSL shaders for bsnes):
http://www.multiupload.com/LBVKFDE48C

Also he can find many pixel shader filters at:
http://www.si-gamer.net/gulikoza/
http://www.si-gamer.net/gulikoza/dosbox.html

or he can download ykhwong's dosbox build and use the included shaders:
http://ykhwong.x-y.net/
http://ykhwong.x-y.net/xe/dosbox_data

I think that the included pixel shaders are for Direct3D (as in gulikoza's build).

Edited by DaffyDuck (05/15/11 01:13 PM)



Daffy Duck



Naoki
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Smitdogg]
#254614 - 05/15/11 04:02 PM


And as always my ghetto-pc limits me from playing movies like that.



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Dullaron
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About time. new [Re: Smitdogg]
#254618 - 05/15/11 05:27 PM


Great to get the games screen fit into the artworks. =)

I wonder if the screen can be lean back or tilt forward. Final Burn Alpha have these options. Very cool.



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https://sites.google.com/site/o0kinghanco0o/mame_building_info (Updated on the 07/18/2017 at 9:49 PM.)



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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Smitdogg]
#254622 - 05/15/11 05:37 PM


Well, it'll certainly be interesting to see this in mainline! I can see a lot of people getting obsessed with finding a "perfect" config for their nostalgia.



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ReadOnly
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Smitdogg]
#254625 - 05/15/11 07:30 PM


Really hope it will work on my old HD 4870 X2.

Edited by ReadOnly (05/15/11 08:41 PM)



RdW
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: TheGuru]
#254627 - 05/15/11 08:04 PM


> > Heh, his finest hour. Hopefully there'll be plenty of presets to go w/ the fine
> > tuning capabilities.
>
> I hope so. the pic shown looks *nothing* like a real arcade monitor

I'm also not impressed....



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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: RdW]
#254630 - 05/15/11 08:38 PM


Smitdogg i like to say to you it is a wonderfull job.
Besides this remember very much the real machines in the past.
I think you forgot to put on the video Pinball Action, but anyways i will try when is done.





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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: TheGuru]
#254637 - 05/15/11 11:23 PM


> > Did you check the linked avi?
>
> yeah
> if my WG D9200 or Nanao MS8-26A arcade monitors looked as bad as that I'd have to
> send them off for repair

Down here, we call that authenticity.

No operators would ever buy replacement monitors. They all looked like crap, or worse, had Pac-Man burned into the monitor. (Can I request that as a feature? )



RetroRepair
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: TheGuru]
#254640 - 05/16/11 12:13 AM



Quote:


I hope so. the pic shown looks *nothing* like a real arcade monitor




That's a bit harsh, it at least looks more like a CRT than no filter at all and besides, this isn't the best example. I think this Metal Slug image is much better and shows off more configuration options in action:

Click to enlarge



The convergence is even a bit out and it's subtle additions like that which make it look so authentic. I'd like to be able to add an image for variable screen burn too It might sound daft but it's something that I would think would be right up MAME's ally, preserving the technology in any way possible for future generations to experience, warts and all.

If anyone can compile MAME by the way here's a win32 (I believe) source. I couldn't get it to compile myself though: http://icips.us/emulation/crt/hlslmame_test5.zip

Here's also lots of screenshots and the original thread: http://forums.bannister.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=6660&Number=69459#Post69459

Edited by RetroRepair (05/16/11 01:33 AM)



http://www.youtube.com/retrorepair



redk9258
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Kitsune Sniper]
#254642 - 05/16/11 12:45 AM Attachment: galaga.zip 27 KB (12 downloads)


> They all looked like crap, or
> worse, had Pac-Man burned into the monitor. (Can I request that as a feature? )

You can certainly do that already using the -burnin option (seriously!). Run Pac-Man with it then use the png file with the game you want the Pac-Man burn in to show. You will have to create a lay file for the artwork system.

EDIT: Try the attached with galaga.

Edited by redk9258 (05/16/11 12:49 AM)



redk9258
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: redk9258]
#254643 - 05/16/11 12:53 AM Attachment: 0001.png 19 KB (9 downloads)


Like this...

[ATTACHED IMAGE]

Attachment



DMala
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: RetroRepair]
#254650 - 05/16/11 02:32 AM


> I'd like to be able to add an image for variable screen burn too
> It might sound daft but it's something that I would think would be right up MAME's
> ally, preserving the technology in any way possible for future generations to
> experience, warts and all.

We've had this for a while now...


Quote:


-[no]burnin

Tracks brightness of the screen during play and at the end of
emulation generates a PNG that can be used to simulate burn-in
effects on other games. The resulting PNG is created such that the
least used-areas of the screen are fully white (since burned-in areas
are darker, all other areas of the screen must be lightened a touch).
The intention is that this PNG can be loaded via an artwork file with
a low alpha (e.g, 0.1-0.2 seems to work well) and blended over the
entire screen. The PNG files are saved in the snap directory under
the gamename/burnin-.png. The default is OFF (-noburnin).






gregf
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: DMala]
#254651 - 05/16/11 02:42 AM


>> I'd like to be able to add an image for variable screen burn too
>> It might sound daft but it's something that I would think would be right up MAME's
>> ally, preserving the technology in any way possible for future generations to
>> experience, warts and all.

>We've had this [-burnin] for a while now...

Yep. Feature added during summer 2009.



http://mamedev.org/releases/whatsnew_0133.txt

0.132u5
-------


Introduced new feature -burnin, which can be used to generate a PNG
that represents the overall brightness seen during the course of
running a game. This PNG can be used as a fake "bezel" that overlays
the screen via the artwork systems (with a low alpha, say 0.1 or 0.2)
to simulate running a game with a monitor that has been burned in
from another game. [Aaron Giles]



Example posted.



StevieWunderful
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: RetroRepair]
#254662 - 05/16/11 05:42 AM


I think the example pic/vid shown 'here' is not the best...

But after seeing the examples on the page you linked, Im very happy about it. It looks a million times better than the stock output on an LCD / PC Monitor.

Awesome work.



CrapBoardSoftware
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Naoki]
#254679 - 05/16/11 05:17 PM


> And as always my ghetto-pc limits me from playing movies like that.

Nobody keeps you from spending money on a new machine instead of arcade boards. Btw, is the machine older than you?



Naoki
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: CrapBoardSoftware]
#254684 - 05/16/11 07:18 PM


Younger XP
And no, no one forces me to, but my PC works fine as it is, why should I save up months of my hard work to upgrade my PC to the next gen when I really only need web browsing, IMing, email and Youtube viewing/making? And from that logic I buy rarer things so I don't have to have a hex-core 4GHz system to get 50% on Naomi games



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SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Wheeley]
#254704 - 05/17/11 12:06 AM


Got more info... It does not affect artwork, but the pincushion effect is applied to overlays in order to maintain alignment.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Bryan Ischo]
#254705 - 05/17/11 12:07 AM


From the author: "Currently it's D3D-only and as a result Windows-only, but since it's just a fullscreen post-processing effect and SDL already supports GLSL post-processing, I see no reason why it wouldn't be portable to the SDL version as well."



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: TheGuru]
#254708 - 05/17/11 12:09 AM


From the desserts hoarder: "The screen in question was from the very first version of the shader set. Since it was added, the following changes have been made:
- Independent scanline brightness scale and offset; this can be tuned to produce a more realistic presentation whereby bright colors cause the scanline intensity to be muted.
- Full YIQ colorspace convolution for the purposes of NTSC simulation.
- Dot-crawl simulation for NTSC simulation.
- Chroma subsampling simulation for NTSC simulation.
- Independent radial deconvergence for red, green and blue channels
- Defocus
- Phosphorescence based on a max() function rather than a linear blend
- Per-channel phosphor non-linearity simulation via a pow() function
- "DC offset" simulation (i.e., black being rescaled to be non-black but the upper limit but it is scaled such that 1.0 is still 1.0)"



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: Smitdogg]
#254709 - 05/17/11 12:10 AM


...is apparently an 8800 GT.



Qun Mang
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: Smitdogg]
#254712 - 05/17/11 01:12 AM


Hmm. Hopefully my 8800M GTS will fill the bill. If not, I'm sure it probably just means a loss of a couple of features, right?



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: Qun Mang]
#254713 - 05/17/11 01:17 AM


No, everything, and mame will just crash. J/K I don't know. I'll let you know if I find out.



Qun Mang
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: Smitdogg]
#254716 - 05/17/11 01:49 AM


Thanks. I await the author's further news through the Smit-o-phone.




BIOS-D
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: StevieWunderful]
#254744 - 05/17/11 06:20 AM


> I think the example pic/vid shown 'here' is not the best...
>
> But after seeing the examples on the page you linked, Im very happy about it. It
> looks a million times better than the stock output on an LCD / PC Monitor.
>
> Awesome work.

I understand the nostalgia purposes about bad quality images (NTSC/PAL), but why do people consider a blurry screen based on scanlines high quality? AFAIK sprites are made of square (and sometimes rectangular) pixels. Hence the best output quality any console could offer would be a mosaic-like resolution as in any PC monitor or LCD screen.

Granted, this bring us memories about how it looked back then and I'll be more than happy to use it. But if any console can't offer the high quality output we have in emulation is because they couldn't, not because they were made to output like that.



BIOS-D
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: Smitdogg]
#254747 - 05/17/11 06:32 AM


> ...is apparently an 8800 GT.

I think this explains very well what is needed.

http://mess.dorando.at/svn/?rev=11560


Quote:


Implemented experimental HLSL post-processing support on Direct3D 9 targets. [Ryan Holtz, Bat Country Entertainment]
- You will need the latest DirectX redistributable from Microsoft's website.
- You will need a new set of headers found here, including the caveats within: http://forums.bannister.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=69633
- 5-pass post-processing: Upscale, Post-Process, Store Last Frame, Defocus 1, Defocus 2
- Many tunable effects including: Scanlines, defocus, linear deconvergence, radial deconvergence, pincushion, RGB colorspace convolution, YIQ colorspace convolution, saturation, simulated dot crawl, simulated chroma subsampling, aperture masking, and more.
- Requires a GPU that supports Shader Model 3.0 to be enabled and a powerful GPU, the entire pipeline consists of approximately 30 texel fetches and approximately 230 arthimetic ops.
- Will supersample the framebuffer up to 9x in both X and Y, but this requires an enormously powerful GPU that has not been invented; users with Radeon 5000-class cards should limit themselves to 3x, Radeon 4000 to 1.5x.
- The default configuration will NOT appear to do anything; it requires tuning to the user's liking.
- Should nicely fall back in all cases except missing shaders, and it might fall back correctly in that case as well. Report any anomalies.
- For obvious reasons, the Direct3D8 renderer cannot support this.

Artwork:
aperture.png: Based on Aaron Giles's aperture_4x6 mask but with more prominent notching to bring out the "brick" pattern that was used on many period colour monitors, including the Commodore 1702 - which was, admittedly, not an arcade monitor, but it looks believable and can be changed. It currently requires considerable fine-tuning to change masks but is doable.
white.png: Default 8x8 255,255,255,255 texture.

Initial shader import:
Focus: 8-sample blur that averages 7 samples around a center sample.
Phosphor: Not currently used, treated as a pass-through by drawd3d.c, but could be used to implement additional convolutions in a second pass.
Pincushion: Used (when commented in in drawd3d.c) to pincushion an entire full-screen texture but not otherwise apply any convolutions.
Post: The meat and potatoes. It does scanlines, it does aperture masking, it does dot crawl, it does chroma subsampling, it does YIQ colorspace convolution, it does RGB colorspace convolution, it does pincushioning, it walks, it talks, it does the dishes.
Primary: Simple passthrough for UI and artwork.





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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: Qun Mang]
#254753 - 05/17/11 08:20 AM


if you let the effects turned off, MAME will work as usual

if you turn on the effects but your card do not have support for PS3.0, MAME will simply ignore the new effects and should work as usual. There have been a bunch of reports that in a few situation a crash might occur, but it is a bug which is being looked at and will hopefully be fixed soon.



Solstar
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Smitdogg]
#254775 - 05/17/11 11:41 AM


i havea geforce 8800 gt hurray \^0^/



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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: BIOS-D]
#254776 - 05/17/11 12:28 PM


What you have to understand, especially for the older games, is that they were designed to be viewed on older monitors with larger dot pitch displays.

The artists often made the graphics certain ways to take advantage of the older technology, to make things possible that were not possible on the hardware itself.

For example, if you make a single pixel checkboard pattern on a low res monitor, it does not show up as a chekerboard pattern. Instead, it shows up more like a shadow. A darker color, but you can see thru it. And since the game hardware has a limited color palette, and may not even be able to do transparent colors... that was a trick they used to overcome the limitations. When viewed on a pc monitor, hires or higher dot pitch display... the checker pattern shows up.. and you lose the effect.

Another example is color mixing. Use of two different single pixel colors next to each other would often make it look like there was only one color, or a shade of color inbeteen that does not exist on the games palette. Such as putting a red pixel next to a yellow, to make a fire-orange.

Another easier to see benefit, is that the game on an older arcade monitor tends to cause the lines to be less jagged. With smoother lines, it made even the lower resolution games look a lot better... almost as if the artist actually had a higher resolution to work with.

Also, if you note something like the Hard Drivin pic, you can see that the lines help add a "Texture" to the screen. And with that texture, it again helps create the illusion that there are more colors to work with. It adds more detail and looks more like a painting, rather than a nightmare of bland flat inked in color fills. Note how the sky gradients seem to blend much better together, and how the grass seems to be more 'grassy', with that extra textural effect.

I have a suspicion that Some of the games were intentionally de-tuned a little bit at the factory, to give them a slightly better look. And or, they anticipated that focus, alignments, excess monitor dust, would also contribute to making the game look a little different.

Finally, I want to mention that Dot pitch as well as the ShadowMask do play a factor in look. The thicker the Shadowmasks lines... the more clearly you will see them from far away. It will also impact the look of the colors. The finer the dot pitch, and smaller the masks wires... the less the light would leak. Leaking light actually added to the mixing / blending effects.. but in new hi-res monitors, theres almost no light leak at all.
Thus again, jagged pixels that were never intended to be seen like that.


So, to recap:

To make the game look better using natural smoothing, texture, and special effects: like color blends, fake transparency, and more... with pixel arrangement.


Btw, A great example of is Outrun viewed on an original arcade monitor. The game is low res, but still holds up much more beautifully than compared to some of the high resolution 3d modeled racing games, that have gotten outdated.

Mostly because of the brilliant use of colors, shading, texture, and effects. Many of the levels look like an oil painting. It becomes a work of art.. instead of an outdated eyesore.

But without the proper display, it really hurts the look. It becomes a bit too blocky / jagged looking. It has less smooth, shaded look. The lack of texture takes away from its colors and hand painted look. It ends up looking much more flat, lifeless, boring. And as said, it was never intended to be seen like that.

I guess the simplest example, is if you blow up a font letter too large. It will look completely different than what you see when its small in its intended view size.

Edited by xiaou2 (05/17/11 12:33 PM)



DrZer0
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: StevieWunderful]
#254781 - 05/17/11 01:57 PM


> What you have to understand, especially for the older games, is that they were...

Agree 100%




R. Belmont
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: Qun Mang]
#254789 - 05/17/11 04:07 PM


> Hmm. Hopefully my 8800M GTS will fill the bill. If not, I'm sure it probably just
> means a loss of a couple of features, right?

Let me clarify Smit's clarification: any Nvidia 8-series or better and any AMD 2xxx or better will run the effects, it's just a matter of how slowly. An 8800GT (or AMD 2800) is the baseline for good performance with common settings.



Qun Mang
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#254818 - 05/18/11 12:23 AM


Ugh. Shader 4.0 on my GPU, but it looks like the 8800M GTS has half the performance of the 8800 GT. Well, that probably only means I won't be able to use all the effects on more CPU-intensive games. That should be fine- newer games need the effects less than older ones anyway I would think, as they had better monitors. That still leaves a few CPU-intensive older games, but oh well.



vram74
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#254833 - 05/18/11 02:29 AM


> > Hmm. Hopefully my 8800M GTS will fill the bill. If not, I'm sure it probably just
> > means a loss of a couple of features, right?
>
> Let me clarify Smit's clarification: any Nvidia 8-series or better and any AMD 2xxx
> or better will run the effects, it's just a matter of how slowly. An 8800GT (or AMD
> 2800) is the baseline for good performance with common settings.


Any idea how well an old Radeon 3450 512MB with 64-bit memory paired with a 2.9Ghz AMD 5600+ X2 will fair?



grobda
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: DrZer0]
#254912 - 05/18/11 10:54 PM


> > What you have to understand, especially for the older games, is that they were...
>
> Agree 100%

Agree 2.

Needs slider control ...

New Machine, just bought in <------------[o]--------------> Old machine, has history.

[o] = level of filter settings.



R. Belmont
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: Qun Mang]
#254914 - 05/18/11 11:28 PM


> Ugh. Shader 4.0 on my GPU, but it looks like the 8800M GTS has half the performance
> of the 8800 GT. Well, that probably only means I won't be able to use all the effects
> on more CPU-intensive games.

Well, no, the shaders don't use any CPU power, that's the point of making them shaders



Qun Mang
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#254919 - 05/19/11 12:04 AM


Okay, now I'm confused. Doesn't this statement from you

> Well, no, the shaders don't use any CPU power, that's the point of making them
> shaders

conflict with this one?

> Let me clarify Smit's clarification: any Nvidia 8-series or better and any AMD 2xxx
> or better will run the effects, it's just a matter of how slowly. An 8800GT (or AMD
> 2800) is the baseline for good performance with common settings.


At this point, I think I should just wait for a release with these changes and try them out for myself instead of speculating any further.

edit: okay- slow, but got it. Thanks.

Edited by Qun Mang (05/19/11 12:36 AM)



Reznor007
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: Qun Mang]
#254920 - 05/19/11 12:13 AM


He listed video cards that would deliver acceptable performance, not CPU's, so it fits perfectly.



B2K24
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: Qun Mang]
#254923 - 05/19/11 12:13 AM


> At this point, I think I should just wait for a release with these changes and try
> them out for myself instead of speculating any further.

I totally agree 100% and I can't wait.

Very nice work and I very much look forward to enjoying this.



Qun Mang
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: Reznor007]
#254930 - 05/19/11 12:34 AM


Ah- got it. The game isn't relevant for speed on this- only the GPU, so same performance regardless of how CPU-intensive the emulation of the game is. As to how that performance will look on my GPU, I will wait and see.



Heihachi_73
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: vram74]
#254950 - 05/19/11 05:49 AM


> Any idea how well an old Radeon 3450 512MB with 64-bit memory paired with a 2.9Ghz
> AMD 5600+ X2 will fair?

Slightly better than my 256MB Radeon 9550 on a 2.8GHz Celeron running XP. Only slightly, by some order of magnitude.



jumpmaniac81
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Re: New filter system in the works new [Re: Smitdogg]
#255059 - 05/20/11 03:32 PM


YEAHHHH! sorry...... I'm very pleased with this one. Can't wait. I hope it can go vertical.



DMala
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#255071 - 05/20/11 06:42 PM


> Let me clarify Smit's clarification: any Nvidia 8-series or better and any AMD 2xxx
> or better will run the effects, it's just a matter of how slowly. An 8800GT (or AMD
> 2800) is the baseline for good performance with common settings.

It sucks, I'm hamstrung by my AGP slot. As far as I can tell, the GeForce 6200 I have is about the best I can do. Upgrading means doing the whole works, probably up to and including the power supply.

I'm sure my wife will understand.



CiroConsentino
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: DMala]
#255085 - 05/20/11 11:26 PM


you can upgrade to a Radeon HD 4650 1GB AGP8x.
that's what I did (from a GeForce 7600GS 256MB AGP8x) and the performance is way better.

but get the one from "Sapphire" as the model from "XFX" sucks.
http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation...=4&sgid=571

I don't like Radeon cards much but there is no GeForce 8/9 in AGP slot



DMala
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: CiroConsentino]
#255098 - 05/21/11 03:38 AM


> you can upgrade to a Radeon HD 4650 1GB AGP8x.
> that's what I did (from a GeForce 7600GS 256MB AGP8x) and the performance is way
> better.
>
> but get the one from "Sapphire" as the model from "XFX" sucks.
> http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation...=4&sgid=571
>
> I don't like Radeon cards much but there is no GeForce 8/9 in AGP slot

Interesting... I hate to dump any more cash in this old rig, but if I can't swing a proper upgrade it might be an option.



krick
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: DMala]
#255107 - 05/21/11 07:01 AM


> > you can upgrade to a Radeon HD 4650 1GB AGP8x.
> > that's what I did (from a GeForce 7600GS 256MB AGP8x) and the performance is way
> > better.
> >
> > but get the one from "Sapphire" as the model from "XFX" sucks.
> >
> http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation...=4&sgid=571
> >
> > I don't like Radeon cards much but there is no GeForce 8/9 in AGP slot
>
> Interesting... I hate to dump any more cash in this old rig, but if I can't swing a
> proper upgrade it might be an option.

Tom's hardware reviews one and benchmarks it against an equivalent PCIe card...
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-4650-agp,2383.html

Newegg sells one from "HIS" that has GDDR3 memory...
$89 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161308

But the Sapphire GDDR2 card is cheaper...
$69 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102851



krick
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Re: Rock bottom requirement card for this and some other shader stuff... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#255108 - 05/21/11 07:14 AM


Kind of interesting to see what video hardware the average gamer has...

Steam Hardware & Software Survey: April 2011
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

Though, I'm not sure that anyone that frequents this forum counts as an "average gamer".


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