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Tornadoboy
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Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio?
#265973 - 10/09/11 05:46 PM


Hello from a newb!

I've got a DECO cassette system coming set up with Burgertime, the tape (like most DECO tapes) is more than likely trashed so I want to try to improvise a substitute and I'll need to have a fresh audio file of the data, does anyone know if the MAME cas files can be converted to audio?

Any help will be appreciated.

Andy D / aka Tornadoboy



Heihachi_73
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: Tornadoboy]
#266243 - 10/13/11 01:48 PM


> Hello from a newb!
>
> I've got a DECO cassette system coming set up with Burgertime, the tape (like most
> DECO tapes) is more than likely trashed so I want to try to improvise a substitute
> and I'll need to have a fresh audio file of the data, does anyone know if the MAME
> cas files can be converted to audio?
>
> Any help will be appreciated.
>
> Andy D / aka Tornadoboy

It depends if the data was recorded in the standard tape format (e.g. analog 'audio' read as digital binary data). I'd imagine loading the .cas file into a wave editor as raw data should work in that case, however I would not know the correct frequency/volume to play back the 'audio' data. I haven't experienced recording/copying binary programs to tape since I never owned a C64 or similar hardware, but I'd imagine after trial and error it should theoretically work.



Tornadoboy
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: Heihachi_73]
#266249 - 10/13/11 04:14 PM


Well I tried using a utility called CAQ2WAV which was made for converting Mattel Aquarius tape images and it came out as a working wav file that sounded like data, although I doubt the file would work as I think it merged the two channels as one, so hopefully it should be possible if I can find a conversion program that'll do separate channels and allow other tweaking.

I also tried importing it as raw data in Audacity and it came through, although it doesn't sound like anything I'd expect to be audio data (at least from my experience with TI 99/4a cassettes), so I'll need to do some serious playing around with settings before that has any hope of working. Unless anyone has suggestions?

I guess my immediate plan when I get the board is to build that circuit Charles MacDonald posted which goes between the deck and the PCBs and can be plugged into a PC sound card for dumping, and see if I can salvage the data off the original cassette, then take it from there. I still want to figure out have to convert cas files regardless as I want an Angler Dangler setup REALLY bad!



Heihachi_73
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: Tornadoboy]
#266966 - 10/21/11 11:20 PM


> Well I tried using a utility called CAQ2WAV which was made for converting Mattel
> Aquarius tape images and it came out as a working wav file that sounded like data,
> although I doubt the file would work as I think it merged the two channels as one, so
> hopefully it should be possible if I can find a conversion program that'll do
> separate channels and allow other tweaking.
>
> I also tried importing it as raw data in Audacity and it came through, although it
> doesn't sound like anything I'd expect to be audio data (at least from my experience
> with TI 99/4a cassettes), so I'll need to do some serious playing around with
> settings before that has any hope of working. Unless anyone has suggestions?
>
> I guess my immediate plan when I get the board is to build that circuit Charles
> MacDonald posted which goes between the deck and the PCBs and can be plugged into a
> PC sound card for dumping, and see if I can salvage the data off the original
> cassette, then take it from there. I still want to figure out have to convert cas
> files regardless as I want an Angler Dangler setup REALLY bad!

When you loaded the tape image as raw data, did you try both signed and unsigned modes? Signed audio data will make the data read from -80 to 80 (hex), whereas unsigned will load as 00-FF bytes.



Tornadoboy
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: Heihachi_73]
#267464 - 10/29/11 12:43 AM


I've tried both, it comes through as like a 1 second clip and sounds nothing like data. I've got the PCBs now and I've frankenstein'd a complete cassette deck together, so with a little luck it'll work and with that dumping circuit I'll at least know what the data is supposed to sound like.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: Tornadoboy]
#268410 - 11/11/11 05:15 PM


I have a spare Burgertime tape and dongle I could sell you if you make a good offer.



Tornadoboy
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: Tornadoboy]
#271015 - 12/15/11 04:58 PM


Bump



Charles MacDonald
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: Tornadoboy]
#271098 - 12/16/11 06:55 PM



There may be data missing from the .CAS images that was present in the real tape, which the boardset would depend on but MAME doesn't need. It may not be possible to convert the .CAS data to a audio tape, and we won't know for sure for a while.

There are people looking into replacing tapes so some efforts are being made, but there are no results yet.



antpsuesq
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: Charles MacDonald]
#275736 - 02/11/12 05:52 PM


hi tornado - you have been on the hunt with this for a while. I have some tapes and can try to dump if you can point me in the direction of how to actually do it! My minty cab isnt working, so I am hoping that by digging through the forums I can figure out how to get it running.

anthony



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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: antpsuesq]
#275751 - 02/11/12 09:37 PM


Which tapes and dongles do you have? You can loan them out for dumping if you want. Chances of you building a device for reading them are quite slim unless you are extremely skilled with building custom hardware and software.

http://cgfm2.emuviews.com/



Tornadoboy
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: Smitdogg]
#292207 - 07/19/12 05:24 PM


Fishing/aka Angler Dangler finally being dumped reminded me of this thread. THANKS MAME!

Right now the only tapes and dongles I have are for stuff that's long since been dumped for MAME, so I don't have anything to contribute as far as new ROMs go unfortunately.
I'll have to start playing around with this idea again, aside from saving the games I have I'd looooooove to somehow build a custom Fishing/Angler Dangler cab!

Charles mentioned that there are others working on a solution for DECO tapes, anything new in the rumor mill about that?



Crazy Otto
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: Tornadoboy]
#292684 - 07/27/12 10:44 AM


Someone was selling a cassette replacement a couple of years ago, but he retired. You might be able to find a used one if your lucky.



Tornadoboy
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: Crazy Otto]
#292842 - 07/30/12 02:08 PM


Yeah but those are super, super rare, I think only 10 were made so if I ever do find one for sale (unlikely) it's probably going to be for more than I can afford.

I know a new higher quality format is coming out to eventually replace MP3 (name escapes me), so if/when something Arduino-based comes out capable of playing them that should pretty much clinch the idea of replacing the tape deck with something solid state, the deck's basic functions are dead simple, stop, play, etc. So it should just be a matter of either re-dumping tapes in the right format so all the data is ready to play or finding a way to convert MAME dumps.



Crazy Otto
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: Tornadoboy]
#292889 - 07/31/12 03:01 AM


Nah, there were 3 runs if i remember right, 1 beta and 2 production. Everyone who wanted one at the time got one. A lot of people bought 2 or 3, but you're right they might be hording them.


The kit is pretty simple, it loads a digital image through the dongle instead of the cassette. Cuts down the wait for the tape. I'm sure someone will start making them again eventually.



Waterborn
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: Crazy Otto]
#349366 - 01/18/16 03:33 AM


Just bought a deco burgertime and found a link to this old discussion. Does anyone have any updates on the availability of deco cassettes? Any info would be greatly appreciated.



gregf
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: Waterborn]
#349415 - 01/19/16 11:24 PM




>bought a deco burgertime and found a link to this old discussion. Does anyone have any
>updates on the availability of deco cassettes? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

I am not sure if any kits as described by Crazy Otto have been on the market since the last post shown is 2011/2012.


Besides the cassette, the specific dongle for the game is also needed, either Burger Time or Hamburger dongle can only be used with your cab.

--
src/mame/drivers/decocass.cpp

use Dongle Type 3

/* 26 Hamburger / Burger Time */
--



Charles MacDonald did do some research on the cassette hardware a few years earlier.

http://www.techno-junk.org/

http://dreamjam.co.uk/emuviews/old2012.php

News (7/7)

DECO Games
Quite a lot of progress has been made with the Data East cassette system dumping efforts. Many different dongle types have been examined and supported, and currently all known dongle types can be dumped. Software has been developed to extract the PROM data out of dongle dumps and to perform detailed analysis of the decryption features of various dongles, and to determine internal jumper settings to see how a dongle is configured without even opening it up. A few games have been added to MAME recently and it's likely there will be more additions in the future, as we keep finding tapes and dongles to dump from generous donors.


Old News (2/5)

The Data East cassette system uses a security dongle that is unique to each game. This prevents operators from duplicating a game simply by copying the audio data from a game cassette to a blank tape. There are several types of basic dongle designs, and each one has data that is specific to a particular game.
--



The ideal goal, if even possible, is if the captured tape data can be rewritten to a blank tape. Maybe not possible when seeing how the data on the tapes is arranged. See Charles pages for details and also the source in MAME.

iirc these tapes might be a non-standard size and were only made for Deco cassette cabs which is why I can see the replacement kits that were described by Crazy Otto were popular and maybe hard-to-find these days.



Crazy Otto
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: gregf]
#353043 - 04/16/16 03:26 AM


I quit the arcade hobby when my kids were born. In the intervening years I've lost the technology to program CPLD's. It could still happen some time though. My kids are old enough to play now and I'm starting to get back into the hobby. I just bought my first new game in probably at least 10 years.



gregf
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: Crazy Otto]
#353049 - 04/16/16 10:01 AM



>My kids are old enough to play now and I'm starting to get back into the hobby.

Back in time to see some of the netlist non-cpu emulation now in MAME. Pong, Pong Doubles, and Breakout emulated. And a few more games (Irem games) with discrete audio hardware work done last year. And also proms added into source code of some non-cpu games that do use proms such as Atari Tank or PSE Desert Patrol.



>I just bought my first new game in probably at least 10 years.

I am guessing a mechanical game.

btw: See my old thread. The WG film reels had already been sold earlier, but I did get actual slides used with WG and Shooting Trainer cabs.



Crazy Otto
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: gregf]
#353063 - 04/16/16 07:11 PM


Nice. Glad to finally see WG.

I went the opposite direction, something newer, for the kids. Final Lap 2.

I do still have 1 EM game, but I need to get it working.



gregf
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Re: Fixing a DECO Burgertime - can MAME DECO cas files be converted back to audio? new [Re: Crazy Otto]
#353073 - 04/16/16 09:08 PM




>Nice. Glad to finally see WG.

Unfortunately, I was too late on the film reels. I only got the attract mode slide piece that is used for WG. My three posts explain what each slide image is used for when playing either WG or Shooting Trainer.


>I went the opposite direction, something newer, for the kids. Final Lap 2.

Heh. I guess that meant the Death Race cab wasn't enough for their tastes. kidding.


>I do still have 1 EM game, but I need to get it working.

Good luck on that.


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