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SmitdoggAdministrator
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Demon Front WIP
#279963 - 03/22/12 05:05 AM


Haze got Demon Front working. Legendary!

http://mamedev.emulab.it/haze/2012/03/22/give-me-all-your-demons-they-dont-scare-me-now/




































Sune
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Supergun video capture - complete playthrough new [Re: Smitdogg]
#279964 - 03/22/12 05:10 AM


> Haze got Demon Front working. Legendary!



A review of sorts
http://nfggames.com/games/DemonFront/


S



jasd
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Smitdogg]
#279970 - 03/22/12 05:17 AM


well,good job,hope the PGM sound emulation can be perfect



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: jasd]
#279974 - 03/22/12 05:31 AM


99% of users wouldn't know the sound emulation was imperfect if it wasn't shown on the splash screen. Sounds fine.



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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Smitdogg]
#279982 - 03/22/12 06:12 AM


> Haze got Demon Front working. Legendary!

Well, last I heard he got demon front booting, but the game isn't working properly since you CANNOT DIE due to the missing arm protection code. So not exactly fun yet.

LN



"When life gives you zombies... *CHA-CHIK!* ...you make zombie-ade!"



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Lord Nightmare]
#279983 - 03/22/12 06:15 AM


This is an update that just happened an hour ago. You can die. It's working fine.



jasd
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Smitdogg]
#279991 - 03/22/12 06:34 AM


> 99% of users wouldn't know the sound emulation was imperfect if it wasn't shown on
> the splash screen. Sounds fine.

Well,if it means the sound emulation in pgm driver will be perfect in the next Mame version?



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: jasd]
#279993 - 03/22/12 06:43 AM


You mean like the flag going away? I doubt it. All I'm saying is I would bet money that if 99% of mame users booted the game up and the splash screen wasn't there saying it wasn't perfect, they would have no idea that is wasn't, even if they had played it in an arcade.



Lord Nightmare
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Smitdogg]
#279996 - 03/22/12 07:03 AM


> This is an update that just happened an hour ago. You can die. It's working fine.

Oh, wow, that's unexpected, and cool!
I read haze's latest blog and I haven't the slightest idea how IGS could have screwed up the protection like that. What does the internal ARM code even DO? Maybe some memtests and stuff? How the hell did they ever expect something designed the way this was to be remotely secure?
Maybe there was some disconnect between the IGS software devs and the ones who bought/integrated the ARM7 Program-counter based read lockout (similar to GBA) to the hardware.

LN



"When life gives you zombies... *CHA-CHIK!* ...you make zombie-ade!"



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Lord Nightmare]
#279999 - 03/22/12 07:13 AM


Yes it's rad.

Well I suppose they lucked into the protection working because it wasn't bootlegged and it's now 10 years old before anyone cracked it. We might do some tests on the pcb but you should send your questions to Haze.



mogli
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Looks like they borrowed a lot from Metal Slug..... new [Re: Sune]
#280006 - 03/22/12 09:25 AM


And what's that weird scan-like like effect when coining up?



Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.

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What's that? Metal Slug replacement ... new [Re: Smitdogg]
#280007 - 03/22/12 10:31 AM


?

Regards,
RetroLover



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I wonder these people use to work on the NEO-GEO Metal Slugs games. new [Re: RetroLover]
#280009 - 03/22/12 11:39 AM





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Re: Supergun video capture - complete playthrough new [Re: Sune]
#280010 - 03/22/12 11:50 AM


all hail haze



CiroConsentino
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Re: What's that? Metal Slug replacement ... new [Re: RetroLover]
#280018 - 03/22/12 01:53 PM


yes, it's a Metal Slug clone.



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Lewis King
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Re: What's that? Metal Slug replacement ... new [Re: CiroConsentino]
#280031 - 03/22/12 04:14 PM


Anyways it’s playable.
Even or not protected.

Edit: Haze prove he can do the same as The Gladiator?



CTOJAH
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Smitdogg]
#280038 - 03/22/12 04:37 PM


This great achievement is side by side with CPS 3 emulation or AtomisWave/Naomi emulation !
I've been waiting a long time for this break through.
You should not look at Demon Front like a rip-off of Metal Slug, but as a standalone quality game.



Sune
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Re: Looks like they borrowed a lot from Metal Slug..... new [Re: mogli]
#280045 - 03/22/12 05:21 PM


> And what's that weird scan-like like effect when coining up?

I didn't watch enough of it to see that, but I'm guessing it's a side effect of using capture equipment.

If it's some sort of raster effect it probably only looks the way the programmers intended on a 15Khz monitor.

S



greybeard
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Smitdogg]
#280046 - 03/22/12 05:38 PM


Cool! you can never have enough metal slug clones!

I really enjoy Metal Slug 2,x,3, I hope its more like those and not 4,5, or 6.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: greybeard]
#280049 - 03/22/12 06:10 PM


It's pretty much more different from Metal Slugs than any Metal Slugs are to their previous game in the series. When in normal mode and you jump and hold down the jump button, you sprout wings and descend more slowly. Pressing C brings you into a different mode that puts a bubble around you and makes holding down the shot button do rapid fire of your current weapon. But it's still a matter of if you like or don't like the Slug games you will probably do the same with this.



kevenz
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Smitdogg]
#280062 - 03/22/12 07:13 PM


Wow great news for arcade emulation this week !

hopefully he can continue emulating the other PGM games.

I'm really surprise.



HowardC
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Smitdogg]
#280109 - 03/23/12 12:31 AM


That's certainly true, but you've got to feel bad for snk. I mean even if we are just going by the sprites they literally just traced over some metal slug sprites and tweaked them a little. I would be suprised if there wasn't a bit of bootleg mslug programming in there as well. I think it's a lot like most Chineese knock-offs, it's actually quite remarkable in terms of quality, but you feel bad for the real ip holders.

Regardless, I'm excited about this. As you said, it's a cool game in it's own right and due to the US rarity I've never played it.

I wonder if anything can be learned in regards to the arm protection of other pgm games from this? You've basically got the thing up and running so I'm assuming you could snoop at what the copy protection stuff is up to as the game is being played.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: HowardC]
#280111 - 03/23/12 12:36 AM


I don't think much more from the gameplay in this was borrowed from the Slugs than the Slugs borrowed from Megaman and other past games. I don't feel bad for SNK one bit and their Slug game during the same year was the worst one ever.

Haze is working on more of them as are rtw and Guru but the protection usages vary wildly between games even when they use the same chip types.



HowardC
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Smitdogg]
#280116 - 03/23/12 01:31 AM


> I don't think much more from the gameplay in this was borrowed from the Slugs than
> the Slugs borrowed from Megaman and other past games. I don't feel bad for SNK one
> bit and their Slug game during the same year was the worst one ever.
>
> Haze is working on more of them as are rtw and Guru but the protection usages vary
> wildly between games even when they use the same chip types.

Judging from that video, with the exception of the new gun mechanics EVERYTHING was ripped off from Metal Slug, right down to the enemies flapping their arms as they jump off a cliff to slow their descent. I mean when I can recognize the original metal slug enemy and it's movement patterns in every single character in the vid it's pretty bad. Metal Slug is a wholey original franchsie with unique physics, it didn't rip anything off from megaman and other platformers unless you mean that there were platformers prior to metal slug and somehow that makes it a ripoff.

I'm not referring to ripping off ideas... I mean physics/code, sound effects and sprites. Like I said, I wouldn't be suprised if there was some bootlegged mslug code in there.

It doesn't matter that snk's latest sequel was terrible either, it was still their terrible sequel to make.

PGM has made some good games in the past, but it's puzzling to me why they would be so serious in terms of encryption. Their games kind of seem like "budget titles" for their time.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: HowardC]
#280117 - 03/23/12 01:37 AM


The PGM system was obviously made to compete with the Neogeo and a lot of their games are along the same lines. Some people even think some of the bootleg SNK fighter carts were made by IGS employees. A lot of SNK games are the same way. Try Gunforce 2. Even it was a lot of the same programmers... Anyway the protection was a free hand-me-down from IGS's gambling game series.



RetroRepair
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: HowardC]
#280137 - 03/23/12 03:53 AM


> That's certainly true, but you've got to feel bad for snk.

Why's that? Nazca were the ones who created Metal Slug, before SNK swallowed them up.

Besides, after Street Fighter 2 SNK released one or two fighting games in it's image. Do you feel sorry for Capcom?



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HowardC
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: RetroRepair]
#280162 - 03/23/12 07:33 AM


> > That's certainly true, but you've got to feel bad for snk.
>
> Why's that? Nazca were the ones who created Metal Slug, before SNK swallowed them up.
>
> Besides, after Street Fighter 2 SNK released one or two fighting games in it's image.
> Do you feel sorry for Capcom?

I'm not seeing your point to be honest.

Nazca basically was modern snk, they only released two games, both of which were made for the neo-geo and snk made them part of their company almost immediately after Metal Slug's release. Metal slug 2-7 were snk games, so I think it's safe to say that Metal Slug is a snk ip. Now if you had said irem, you might have had a point.

Demon Front is the equivelent of say the creator of Wolverine, being fired from marvel comics so he makes an absolutely identical super hero,crazy hair, claws and all for DC but calls him "Mark Lemon" aka "Mutant Y" aka "The Badger". And by identical I mean identical, back-story and all, only a few tweaks were made to prevent lawsuits.

As I said, these games aren't just similar, many parts of them are identical. Like it or not, if you make a game for SNK, it's snk's game. You don't get to jump ship and make the same game for another company.

Again, your sf2 example doesn't make any sense either. SNK stole some of capcom's ideas, that isn't the same as bootlegging the same damn game with a few tweaks and a graphical re-skinning. It's an impressive and by all accounts fun re-tooling of metal slug, but you would have to be blind not to see that it's just that, a re-tooling of metal slug.

I feel bad for SNK because at that point in time the company was falling apart and here comes PGM making money off of one of their games.

But regardless, I actually didn't feel bad for capcom back in the day because snk wasn't any real competition... their early fighting games were just awful. I don't really approve of ripping off other's ideas either, but it certainly isn't as blatent as this example is.


It isn't worth arguing over though.



Lewis King
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: RetroRepair]
#280172 - 03/23/12 03:42 PM


> > That's certainly true, but you've got to feel bad for snk.
>
> Why's that? Nazca were the ones who created Metal Slug, before SNK swallowed them up.
>
> Besides, after Street Fighter 2 SNK released one or two fighting games in it's image.
> Do you feel sorry for Capcom?

Nazca is 10 times better than SNK, and why?
Because of the sound effects and the music.
NEO Turf Masters, other one my favorite.



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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: HowardC]
#280180 - 03/23/12 04:35 PM


> I'm not referring to ripping off ideas... I mean physics/code, sound effects and
> sprites. Like I said, I wouldn't be suprised if there was some bootlegged mslug code
> in there.

Yeah, the behavior looks very much like a direct rip of the Metal Slug 68000 code. Either that or IGS spent a lot of time frame-advancing a videotape of of it.

> PGM has made some good games in the past, but it's puzzling to me why they would be
> so serious in terms of encryption. Their games kind of seem like "budget titles" for
> their time.

IGS's primary business is casino and redemption games, and security is paramount for those. It'd be like if IGT randomly made a fighting game or something.



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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Smitdogg]
#280234 - 03/23/12 10:16 PM


Great news!!!!



Sorry, my English is bad!!!
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kevenz
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Smitdogg]
#280243 - 03/23/12 11:27 PM


I just tried it and I think it's good, very similar to metal slug but you got that flying ghost that freeze the ennemies.. it's kinda strange but fun.



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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Smitdogg]
#280403 - 03/25/12 04:04 AM


Hmmm... Really interesting. Good to know.

That's awesome great news, indeed. But I'm cheering him to have some progress on The Killing Blade Plus, one of my favorites... Let's see...



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Bally
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Smitdogg]
#280685 - 03/28/12 01:06 AM


> Haze got Demon Front working. Legendary!
>
> http://mamedev.emulab.it/haze/2012/03/22/give-me-all-your-demons-they-dont-scare-me-now/

Is this the same game ?

Demon Front (PGM cartridge versions) [David Haywood]



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Bally]
#280686 - 03/28/12 01:20 AM


I think it's the "dmnfrnta" set that is working so far.



Bally
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Smitdogg]
#280697 - 03/28/12 01:50 AM


> I think it's the "dmnfrnta" set that is working so far.

Ok.

Thanks




Lord Nightmare
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Re: Demon Front WIP new [Re: Smitdogg]
#280701 - 03/28/12 02:45 AM


> I think it's the "dmnfrnta" set that is working so far.

Afaict its both dmnfrnt and dmnfrnta (PGM cart versions) which work;
the standalone (non PGM cart) pcb set, called dmnfrntpcb, does not work yet.

LN


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