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bodger319
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Identifying failing fan
#293828 - 08/14/12 06:32 PM


Hi all,

I have a small problem that I hope one of you can provide advice to.
I have what I believe to be a failing fan, either CPU or graphics card. How can I identify which one it is ?
If need be I will swap out both of them, but it goes against my nature. I like to know why I am replacing something.

Both have had less than a year of use, the graphics card was bought about a month before the new CPU cooler.

Problem appeared when both were less than 6 months old with a high-pitched whine under CPU/GPU intensive conditions.

In the last couple of days it has become more pronounced, being noticeable in normal use.
And yesterday and today there was a pronounced grating sound when starting up. Failed fan bearing from the sounds of it.
However switching off the computer rapidly and, then after they have run down, turning the fans manually I cannot detect any rough feeling on either of them. Sometimes after doing this, it will power up without the noise happening again. Sometimes I have to repeat the process a couple of times.
If I can get it to power up without the noise, then it will run for hours without problems.

Any ideas on next step?

Mark



DMala
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Reged: 05/09/05
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Re: Identifying failing fan new [Re: bodger319]
#293829 - 08/14/12 06:42 PM


> Hi all,
>
> I have a small problem that I hope one of you can provide advice to.
> I have what I believe to be a failing fan, either CPU or graphics card. How can I
> identify which one it is ?
> If need be I will swap out both of them, but it goes against my nature. I like to
> know why I am replacing something.
>
> Both have had less than a year of use, the graphics card was bought about a month
> before the new CPU cooler.
>
> Problem appeared when both were less than 6 months old with a high-pitched whine
> under CPU/GPU intensive conditions.
>
> In the last couple of days it has become more pronounced, being noticeable in normal
> use.
> And yesterday and today there was a pronounced grating sound when starting up. Failed
> fan bearing from the sounds of it.
> However switching off the computer rapidly and, then after they have run down,
> turning the fans manually I cannot detect any rough feeling on either of them.
> Sometimes after doing this, it will power up without the noise happening again.
> Sometimes I have to repeat the process a couple of times.
> If I can get it to power up without the noise, then it will run for hours without
> problems.
>
> Any ideas on next step?
>
> Mark

Power the machine up with the case open, when the noise starts, carefully reach in and touch one of the fans (near the center, although CPU fans don't turn nearly fast enough to do any damage). If the noise changes or stops, you'll have your culprit. My money would be on the graphics card fan.



Sune
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Re: Identifying failing fan new [Re: DMala]
#293836 - 08/14/12 09:47 PM


> Power the machine up with the case open, when the noise starts, carefully reach in
> and touch one of the fans (near the center, although CPU fans don't turn nearly fast
> enough to do any damage). If the noise changes or stops, you'll have your culprit. My
> money would be on the graphics card fan.

Or pull out the video card, unplug your hard drive(s) and start the PC.

S



redk9258
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Re: Identifying failing fan new [Re: bodger319]
#293842 - 08/14/12 10:43 PM


Is your PC full of dust bunnies? I just cleaned some from my CPU fan and it is quieter now.



B2K24
Evolution is a mystery
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Re: Identifying failing fan new [Re: bodger319]
#293851 - 08/15/12 01:31 AM


I have had that happen in the past with a 120mm fan on the side panel of the case. Normally what your experiencing happens with larger fans like your case fans, CPU fan, or PSU fan. Since most fans on gfx cards are tiny it's really unlikely it could be that, but not impossible.

You can easily rule out the fan on the GFX card by adjusting the fan speed in software (EVGA Precision)

Perhaps look at hardware screen in BIOS to see which fans are active and temps. It would be good if your CPU fan has a fan controller so you can adjust the speeds and see the results of that.






R. Belmont
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Re: Identifying failing fan new [Re: DMala]
#293871 - 08/15/12 04:37 PM


> Power the machine up with the case open, when the noise starts, carefully reach in
> and touch one of the fans (near the center, although CPU fans don't turn nearly fast
> enough to do any damage). If the noise changes or stops, you'll have your culprit. My
> money would be on the graphics card fan.

This is how I find noisy fans. Note that the danger isn't that the fan will hurt your finger, it's that your finger will hurt the fan given how thin and brittle the blades on many of them are. So be careful



B2K24
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Re: Identifying failing fan new [Re: DMala]
#293880 - 08/15/12 06:51 PM


I wouldn't personally recommend sticking your finger in your case while it's running unless you use an oldskool pop stick (tongue decompressor) or some object.

Anyway, It's far easier to diagnose the problem with only 1 fan getting power as you boot up.






R. Belmont
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Re: Identifying failing fan new [Re: B2K24]
#293886 - 08/15/12 10:04 PM


> I wouldn't personally recommend sticking your finger in your case while it's running
> unless you use an oldskool pop stick (tongue decompressor) or some object.

Why? There's no hazardous voltages, and a wooden stick is all but guaranteed to shatter whatever fan you try and stop with it.



B2K24
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Re: Identifying failing fan new [Re: R. Belmont]
#293899 - 08/16/12 01:59 AM


Tongue decompressors are very thick and cheap in bulk. I'm talking about the professional ones that Doctors use.
You can stick one in a 200mm Cooler Master HAF fan while running at 100% and they don't come close to snapping or breaking. I would not however wanna try that on my finger and even a simple Zalman CPU cooler has the potential of slicing your finger due to the blades on the heatsink that surround the fan.






R. Belmont
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Re: Identifying failing fan new [Re: B2K24]
#293926 - 08/16/12 02:42 PM


> Tongue decompressors are very thick and cheap in bulk. I'm talking about the
> professional ones that Doctors use.

You're missing my point. The kind of cheap Chinese fan that's got bad bearings is likely also to have super-thin brittle blades, and it's likely to shatter and spray sharp pieces all over if you stick a tongue depressor in it.



bodger319
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Re: Identifying failing fan new [Re: R. Belmont]
#293947 - 08/16/12 07:27 PM


> > Tongue decompressors are very thick and cheap in bulk. I'm talking about the
> > professional ones that Doctors use.
>
> You're missing my point. The kind of cheap Chinese fan that's got bad bearings is
> likely also to have super-thin brittle blades, and it's likely to shatter and spray
> sharp pieces all over if you stick a tongue depressor in it.

Many thanks for all the contributions.
I was averse to attempt stopping any fan, due to danger of blades breaking or at least knocking them out of true causing future undue wear in the bearings
However that seems to be exactly what I had done.
Or at least that is the indications so far.

The case I am using has four fans( 1 x 140mm (front low intake by the hard-drives) and 3 x 120 mm (1 top rear intake)(2 top 1 intake, 1 exhaust)), manually controllable as two pairs and powered from PSU. Therefore I was able to eliminate them.
It also has four USB ports on top with quite substantial cables going through the case to connect with USB ports on the output panel of the MB.

The side panel has places for 2 optional 80/120mm fans, the lower was populated with a 120mm powered from the MB. On constructing the system. this fan was obstructed by one of the USB cables being falsely routed, noticed straightaway on initial startup due to noise and rectified.
But possibly enough to knock it out of true running ?

Disconnected that fan prior to sart-up today, and no noise.
EVGA Precision downloaded and GPU fan speed set to 90%.
For some reason it wont go to 100% (GeForce GT430).
No noise.
GPU Tracker started with both SMP & GPU started.
Minimal to no noise.
GPU temp hovering around 60C.

I am now considering converting the other two 120mm to exhaust and replacing the "defective" on the side panel, configured as intake as mounted below the graphics-card.
The second position on the side-panel is above the graphics-card but almost directly opposite the CPU. Intake or exhaust for this one ?



R. Belmont
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Re: Identifying failing fan new [Re: bodger319]
#293954 - 08/16/12 09:12 PM


> The second position on the side-panel is above the graphics-card but almost directly
> opposite the CPU. Intake or exhaust for this one ?

I'd go with exhaust on that one so it draws warm air away from the CPU.



B2K24
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Re: Identifying failing fan new [Re: bodger319]
#293961 - 08/16/12 10:26 PM


> I am now considering converting the other two 120mm to exhaust and replacing the
> "defective" on the side panel, configured as intake as mounted below the
> graphics-card.
> The second position on the side-panel is above the graphics-card but almost directly
> opposite the CPU. Intake or exhaust for this one ?

You always want a high performance fan on the side panel of your case to be internal, so it blows colder air on the north/southbridge as well as other components depending how big the fan actually is.

the fan on your CPU heatsink plus fans on rear of the case will be your exhaust that moves hot air out of the case.

If you can mount a 200mm that pulls a lot of air and is quiet you will see a hell of a difference.

If you wanna go to the extreme then replace everything in your tower with Scythe and remove the heatsink from your GeForce GT430. Clean with isopropyl alcohol and apply quality Thermal Compound. You will see at least a reduction of 20C and possibly more depending. I cleaned a GTX 480 and the difference was over 40C made a huge difference of the heat factor inside my case.






bodger319
MAME Fan
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Re: Identifying failing fan new [Re: B2K24]
#294047 - 08/18/12 12:14 PM


It turned out that it was not the side-panel fan after all as I had the grating noise on power-up the following day.
The other case-fans were shut down, and the CPU and GPU fans were momentarily stopped but no effect on the grating noise thus leaving the PSU fan as the culprit.



DMala
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Re: Identifying failing fan new [Re: bodger319]
#294051 - 08/18/12 05:31 PM


> It turned out that it was not the side-panel fan after all as I had the grating noise
> on power-up the following day.
> The other case-fans were shut down, and the CPU and GPU fans were momentarily stopped
> but no effect on the grating noise thus leaving the PSU fan as the culprit.

Ick, that sucks. Of all of them, that's probably the hardest to replace. Personally, I'm a little skittish about high voltage, I'd probably just replace the whole supply.



bodger319
MAME Fan
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Re: Identifying failing fan new [Re: DMala]
#294055 - 08/18/12 06:19 PM


> Ick, that sucks. Of all of them, that's probably thehardest to replace. Personally,
> I'm a little skittish about high voltage, I'd probably just replace the whole supply.

Replaced the PSU, mainly down to to not knowing what size fan is required. PSU swopped and now stripped down, 120mm fan required. and PSU will be rebuilt as a spare.


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