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Traso
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End of days: XP question(s)
#324125 - 04/05/14 01:55 AM


So...I've been (finally) checking out 7 . I fucking hate it. The interface is okay, and I've been getting used to that. But the differences in function, apparently mainly for 'sharing' shit, and then some other things...that I'll never ever use....suck.

So I looked up why XP might be vulnerable. Here this guy Tim Rains says, "When Microsoft releases a security update, security researchers and criminals will often times reverse engineer the security update in short order in an effort to identify the specific section of code that contains the vulnerability addressed by the update." Now, if no security updates are released, then this issue disappears, right?

So then he goes on to talk about browser and document readers. The only web-interactive document reader I use is Foxit. The critical places I visit are my bank, ebay/paypal, netflix...that's about it. I don't watch much porn, I visit two forums here included, I don't do any online services like Steam or ANYthing. And that's about it. How vulnerable can I be?

Also, will XP soon be less desirable because of its minority in the market place?

I'm asking here because I don't feel like trawling through loads of MS and whatever sites on this thing, and that people like Arby (and surely Aaron, though I doubt he'll even see this) are in the know.



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Moose
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Traso]
#324128 - 04/05/14 03:35 AM


As long as you use 3rd party security software which is still being supported under XP - firewall, anti-malware, etc - and you run your browser, etc sandboxed (http://www.sandboxie.com/) then the threats you will face will likely be minimal. Keep backups (I use CrashPlan - http://www.code42.com/crashplan/ - to automatically backup all of my critical files to a dozen places (NAS, external USB HDDs, other machines) .... backups have never been so easy. Anyway, most importantly, don't do anything stupid - executing files downloaded from torrents / email attachments, opening EXE's masquerading as PDFs, surfing the net on open / unsecured networks, etc.

If you want to keep running XP, then I also recommend you use VirtualBox (http://www.virtualbox.org/) and install XP in a virtual machine (VM). You can then choose whether the VM(s) are network connected or not, and so on. In this way, even if you upgrade to Windows 7 or 8 or Linux or whatever, you can still run XP in a VM. Makes backups / restores effortless.

My main host OS is Windows 7 (64 bit). And I have more than than 40 VM's setup (6 or so are XP VMs for my different work / tasks, so I can keep everything separete just in case one gets hit). I still regularly use Windows NT / 2000 in a VM, mostly only for testing. Also got VM's for (way too) many flavours of Linux. If I was not completely happy with the version of Windows I was running, then Linux (probably Fedora or Mint) would be my host OS.

>>Now, if no security updates are released, then this issue disappears, right?

No, absolutely not. Flaws, vulnerabilities, etc can and will be found within the existing code base.

>>Also, will XP soon be less desirable because of its minority in the market place?

Sadly, yes. All good things must come to an end. As XP's market share declines, 3rd party developers will be less inclined to support it.



Moose



DMala
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Traso]
#324130 - 04/05/14 06:01 AM


> So...I've been (finally) checking out 7 . I fucking hate it. The interface is okay,
> and I've been getting used to that. But the differences in function, apparently
> mainly for 'sharing' shit, and then some other things...that I'll never ever
> use....suck.

I've never quite understood the impulse the cling to obsolete software. Sure, Win 7 has some warts, just like XP did. And you'll get used to them, just like you did with XP. There's no need to upgrade every year just because Microsoft tells you to, but XP is 13 years old. It's just time to move on.

> So I looked up why XP might be vulnerable. Here this guy Tim Rains says, "When
> Microsoft releases a security update, security researchers and criminals will often
> times reverse engineer the security update in short order in an effort to identify
> the specific section of code that contains the vulnerability addressed by the
> update." Now, if no security updates are released, then this issue disappears, right?

That specific issue, yes. The larger problem is that if and when more vulnerabilities are found, regardless of how, they won't be patched. As the holes pile up, security just gets worse and worse.

> So then he goes on to talk about browser and document readers. The only
> web-interactive document reader I use is Foxit. The critical places I visit are my
> bank, ebay/paypal, netflix...that's about it. I don't watch much porn, I visit two
> forums here included, I don't do any online services like Steam or ANYthing. And
> that's about it. How vulnerable can I be?

More than you think. There have been plenty of cases where legit sites have been compromised, and then hijack or distribute malware to everyone who visits them. Staying on the more well-traveled parts of the web is safer, but not foolproof by any means.

> Also, will XP soon be less desirable because of its minority in the market place?

Probably, but it still shares code with the newer OSes, so some exploits will likely work cross platform. Vista, 7, and 8 will get patched, but XP won't.



krick
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: DMala]
#324132 - 04/05/14 06:57 AM


If you keep your XP machine behind a router rather than directly connecting to the Internet, it affords you some protection from hackers.

Set your router DNS to use OpenDNS with malicious site filtering turned on.

Get a modern, actively updated browser and use that instead of Internet Explorer (never use IE again, actually) and install AdBlock Plus as a browser plugin to help filter out malicious sites and flash ads.

Get a modern, actively updated anti-virus + anti-malware product and use it.

Don't download stupid shit from sketchy websites. Don't install stupid shit from sketchy websites. Don't install "cracked" versions of anything, including XP itself. That's how we get ants infected and/or compromised.

In general, don't be stupid.



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Traso
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: DMala]
#324166 - 04/06/14 07:19 AM


> I've never quite understood the impulse the cling to obsolete software.

I've always enjoyed the visual presentation and functionality of XP/IE/WMP. (I have tried other browsers and media players.) My tastes and needs have not changed. If my ho still looks and fucks good, why trade her in?

Anyways, thanks all. I'm seriously thinking about Linux.



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URherenow
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Traso]
#324181 - 04/06/14 04:09 PM


visual? if that's what you care about, just install classicshell on Win7 or Win8. I haven't found any software that runs on XP that doesn't run on WIn7 and Win8.

The only exception (or headache) comes with some really old software and 64bit versions of 7 or 8. In that case, it's usually a registry entry that you need to move to the wow64 section and all is well.



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Traso
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: URherenow]
#324242 - 04/07/14 08:20 PM


> visual? if that's what you care about, just install classicshell on Win7 or Win8. I
> haven't found any software that runs on XP that doesn't run on WIn7 and Win8.
>
> The only exception (or headache) comes with some really old software and 64bit
> versions of 7 or 8. In that case, it's usually a registry entry that you need to move
> to the wow64 section and all is well.

Not the classic theme, the XP blue theme, which is not available. And it doesn't change everything. The start menu, folder layout, and icons/thumbs are still 7.

And the features are named differently, the control panel is a mess of stuff. With all that 'sharing' shit, I haven't even bothered trying to set up basic networking. Then configuring sounds and screen saver, etc etc etc....I figured it out, but I shouldn'tve had to.

I'm keeping in mind Moose's idea of 7 + VM'd XP.



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MooglyGuy
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Traso]
#324245 - 04/07/14 10:22 PM


> I've always enjoyed the visual presentation and functionality of XP/IE/WMP. (I have
> tried other browsers and media players.) My tastes and needs have not changed. If my
> ho still looks and fucks good, why trade her in?
>
> Anyways, thanks all. I'm seriously thinking about Linux.

I'm sure there were people enjoying the visual presentation of Windows 95, but let's cut the crap here: Given the same time frame, what you're doing is tantamount to running Windows 95 in 2008. I don't think even Twisty was that crazy.



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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#324249 - 04/07/14 10:53 PM





Sune
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Traso]
#324250 - 04/07/14 11:16 PM


> I'm keeping in mind Moose's idea of 7 + VM'd XP.

Windows 7 Ultimate, Pro and Enterprise all offer a free "Windows XP mode" download:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/products/features/windows-xp-mode

It's Microsoft Virtual PC and a Windows XP install image. No CD key or license needed, it's completely free and runs great. Just don't expect to run games or anything that needs hardware acceleration or wants direct access to hardware. If it implodes or catches a virus just delete it and install it again.

I had to use it before I got my new camera - my old one could not connect to Windows 7 at all. So i used USB passthrough mode and connected it to the XP mode VM whenever I needed to transfer photos.

S



CTOJAH
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Sune]
#324252 - 04/07/14 11:33 PM


> I had to use it before I got my new camera - my old one could not connect to Windows
> 7 at all. So i used USB passthrough mode and connected it to the XP mode VM whenever
> I needed to transfer photos.

The same thing here - only with my Be@r Paw 1200 CS scanner.
It doesn't work at all in Win 7 64 bit, but works just fine with Virtual XP !



URherenow
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Traso]
#324264 - 04/08/14 04:04 AM


> Not the classic theme, the XP blue theme, which is not available. And it doesn't
> change everything. The start menu, folder layout, and icons/thumbs are still 7.
>

classicshell has a few styles/themes to choose from... have you tried it recently? New versions come out all of the time. At times more often than MAME releases

> And the features are named differently, the control panel is a mess of stuff.

Classic control panel (XP style IIRC) is a built-in option in Win7

With
> all that 'sharing' shit, I haven't even bothered trying to set up basic networking.

I'll give you that one, but it's still not very hard



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Traso
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Robbbert]
#324268 - 04/08/14 04:47 AM


> XP is a perfectly stable OS, and I for one find it completely satisfactory. At my workplace we have literally thousands of pcs running XP, and we are not going to spend untold millions on new pcs and OS's, and not even going to buy extended XP support. And we are just one company among uncounted thousands (or millions). XP will be around for a very long time yet - no matter what Microsoft would wish.

Tomorrow we'll see.

Ubuntu gets a prelim fail. I assumed it would just say, like Win7 when I installed it, 'which partition?....overwrite?.....done'. Instead it gave me options and I had to pick a boot something and......ahm I didn't past that after fucking about with it. Lame.

It is cool that it automatically boots from USB and you can try it out, then install. Not so hot on the 'Left to right' default set-up, though I did give it a whirl. I couldn't find the screen saver to save my life, either. I see the resemblence in tablet Android. Bittersweet.....



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krick
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#324269 - 04/08/14 04:51 AM


> what you're doing is tantamount to
> running Windows 95 in 2008. I don't think even Twisty was that crazy.

There's a whole community of crazy people focused on keeping Windows 98SE/ME alive...
http://www.msfn.org/board/forum/91-windows-9x-member-projects/

...including something called KernelEx that adds a compatibility layer on top to allow you to run Windows XP apps...
http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/130936-kernelex-452/


So don't underestimate crazy.



Traso
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Ahm....XP mode is part of the deprecation, yo..... (nt) new [Re: CTOJAH]
#324270 - 04/08/14 04:51 AM





Sune
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Do you mean they will stop offering it for download? new [Re: Traso]
#324294 - 04/08/14 03:29 PM



If not, the only sane reply to what you just said would be "so what?"

S



Master O
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: krick]
#324296 - 04/08/14 03:52 PM


> If you keep your XP machine behind a router rather than directly connecting to the
> Internet, it affords you some protection from hackers.
>
> Set your router DNS to use OpenDNS with malicious site filtering turned on.
>
> Get a modern, actively updated browser and use that instead of Internet Explorer
> (never use IE again, actually) and install AdBlock Plus as a browser plugin to help
> filter out malicious sites and flash ads.
>
> Get a modern, actively updated anti-virus + anti-malware product and use it.
>
> Don't download stupid shit from sketchy websites. Don't install stupid shit from
> sketchy websites. Don't install "cracked" versions of anything, including XP itself.
> That's how we get ants infected and/or compromised.
>
> In general, don't be stupid.

Also, use the HOSTS file from here:

http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm



MooglyGuy
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Robbbert]
#324303 - 04/08/14 05:49 PM


> There's a difference: Windows 95 was experimental crashy shite, and who in their
> right mind would stick with it?
>
> XP is a perfectly stable OS, and I for one find it completely satisfactory. At my
> workplace we have literally thousands of pcs running XP, and we are not going to
> spend untold millions on new pcs and OS's, and not even going to buy extended XP
> support. And we are just one company among uncounted thousands (or millions). XP will
> be around for a very long time yet - no matter what Microsoft would wish.

If your workplace PCs are so decrepit and old that they can't run Windows 7 but can run Windows XP, then I feel bad for you, your coworkers, and your ancient-ass shitbox PCs.



MooglyGuy
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Traso]
#324304 - 04/08/14 05:52 PM


> Ubuntu gets a prelim fail. I assumed it would just say, like Win7 when I installed
> it, 'which partition?....overwrite?.....done'. Instead it gave me options and I had
> to pick a boot something and......ahm I didn't past that after fucking about with it.
> Lame.

Sorry that Ubuntu expects you to know how to use a PC in order to use a PC. I'm no fan of Linux myself, but it seems like you're just being willfully ignorant and are too lazy to actually learn a damn thing about your computer. See this? This is the world's smallest violin playing just for you:



JWJr
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#324307 - 04/08/14 06:07 PM


> > There's a difference: Windows 95 was experimental crashy shite, and who in their
> > right mind would stick with it?
> >
> > XP is a perfectly stable OS, and I for one find it completely satisfactory. At my
> > workplace we have literally thousands of pcs running XP, and we are not going to
> > spend untold millions on new pcs and OS's, and not even going to buy extended XP
> > support. And we are just one company among uncounted thousands (or millions). XP
> will
> > be around for a very long time yet - no matter what Microsoft would wish.
>
> If your workplace PCs are so decrepit and old that they can't run Windows 7 but can
> run Windows XP, then I feel bad for you, your coworkers, and your ancient-ass shitbox
> PCs.

While that's a perfectly acceptable geek-standard looking-down-your-nose answer, its veracity depends entirely on what work they're actually trying to accomplish with their ancient-ass shitbox PCs.

Yes, we'd all like to have the Latest and Greatest, but if they're doing fine now with what they have, switching to the Latest and Greatest will mean nothing but $$$ and time wasted, and productivity lost. -JW



MooglyGuy
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: JWJr]
#324312 - 04/08/14 06:58 PM


> Yes, we'd all like to have the Latest and Greatest, but if they're doing fine now
> with what they have, switching to the Latest and Greatest will mean nothing but $$$
> and time wasted, and productivity lost. -JW

Absolutely, and when smart people reverse-engineer Windows Vista/7/8 security updates and find that XP is equally vulnerable due to sharing largely the same NT kernel, and you end up spending an equally amount of money (come on, write "money", don't be lazy) and lost productivity undoing the shit-show that results, you have nobody but yourselves to blame. Sorry you have a victimization complex about geeks looking down their noses at your ignorant ass, but don't make it my problem.



Traso
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Re: Do you mean they will stop offering it for download? new [Re: Sune]
#324325 - 04/08/14 09:44 PM


> If not, the only sane reply to what you just said would be "so what?"
>
> S

If there's no support for it in their particular VM, or maybe VM at all, then there's no reason to do that.



Traso
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#324326 - 04/08/14 09:52 PM



Quote:


Sorry that Ubuntu expects you to know how to use a PC in order to use a PC. I'm no fan of Linux myself, but it seems like you're just being willfully ignorant and are too lazy to actually learn a damn thing about your computer. See this? This is the world's smallest violin playing just for you




Dude, please. I know how to set partitions, and do basic command line stuff, and other things. I know how my hardware works and why. Anyone doing basic computing shouldn't have to know any of that stuff. Computers should come from the factory with system and data partitions. I should be able to point at a partition and install. I'm guessing partly there's an issue in (at least) Ubuntu because I'm installing over an installation....but I did check 'format' in the box, and still it required more. Nonsense, unless I'm setting up a server or some corporate shit.

Anyways, no sympathy let alone empathy needed or wanted. I'm merely posting my progress....



Quote:


Sorry you have a victimization complex about geeks looking down their noses at your ignorant ass, but don't make it my problem.




Now now. The real point is Windows shouldn'tve needed deprecation in the first place. Linux doesn't appear to in the same manner at least. I just wish it came less tablet-like out of the box.....or maybe that's just Ubuntu.



JWJr
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#324327 - 04/08/14 09:55 PM


> > Yes, we'd all like to have the Latest and Greatest, but if they're doing fine now
> > with what they have, switching to the Latest and Greatest will mean nothing but $$$
> > and time wasted, and productivity lost. -JW
>
> Absolutely, and when smart people reverse-engineer Windows Vista/7/8 security updates
> and find that XP is equally vulnerable due to sharing largely the same NT kernel, and
> you end up spending an equally amount of money (come on, write "money", don't be
> lazy) and lost productivity undoing the shit-show that results, you have nobody but
> yourselves to blame. Sorry you have a victimization complex about geeks looking down
> their noses at your ignorant ass, but don't make it my problem.

Again, your "ignorance" is assuming that every computer in use is net-connected, and therefore vulnerable. And also, assuming you're the only "geek" in this conversation. -JW



Sune
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Re: Do you mean they will stop offering it for download? new [Re: Traso]
#324343 - 04/09/14 03:07 AM


> > If not, the only sane reply to what you just said would be "so what?"
> >
> > S
>
> If there's no support for it in their particular VM, or maybe VM at all, then there's
> no reason to do that.

Sorry, I didn't understand a word of that.

S



URherenow
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Master O]
#324344 - 04/09/14 03:19 AM


nice.

Does it have entries that aren't made by spybot S&D? In other words, should I grab this and then re-immunize with SB S&D, or is it not necessary?



Dullaron
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How is the ReactOS? XP clone. new [Re: Traso]
#324345 - 04/09/14 03:22 AM


Should we move onto that? Any better?



DMala
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#324346 - 04/09/14 03:29 AM


> Sorry that Ubuntu expects you to know how to use a PC in order to use a PC. I'm no
> fan of Linux myself, but it seems like you're just being willfully ignorant and are
> too lazy to actually learn a damn thing about your computer. See this? This is the
> world's smallest violin playing just for you:

In his defense, setting up partitions for a Linux install *is* pretty daunting if you've never done it before. At least back when I first did it, it wasn't exactly clear what they were all for, or if the default settings were adequate. Sad to say, Ubuntu is probably the most user friendly distro of the lot. If you can't hack it with Ubuntu, you're unlikely to have any better luck anywhere else.



Sune
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HOSTS files new [Re: Master O]
#324349 - 04/09/14 03:45 AM


> Also, use the HOSTS file from here:
>
> http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm

There is also this one: http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/
Updated today.

S



Traso
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Details missed on za page? new [Re: Sune]
#324360 - 04/09/14 07:42 AM


> > > If not, the only sane reply to what you just said would be "so what?"
> > >
> > > S
> >
> > If there's no support for it in their particular VM, or maybe VM at all, then
> there's
> > no reason to do that.
>
> Sorry, I didn't understand a word of that.
>
> S

It's all right, my homie. Perhaps you haven't looked at the page in a while. Above the original description:

As of April 8, 2014, technical support for Windows XP and Windows XP Mode are no longer available, including updates that help protect your PC. This means that if you continue to use Windows XP or use Windows XP Mode on a Windows 7 PC after support ends, your PC might become more vulnerable to security risks and viruses. Therefore, to keep your Windows 7 PC secure after April 8, 2014, we recommend that you only use Windows XP Mode if your PC is disconnected from the Internet. Learn more about Windows XP end of support.



Traso
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First XP updates out early today..... new [Re: Traso]
#324361 - 04/09/14 07:44 AM


IE, windows malicious software tool, and....something else..... I wasn't really surprised.



Traso
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Re: How is the ReactOS? XP clone. new [Re: Dullaron]
#324362 - 04/09/14 07:52 AM


> Should we move onto that? Any better?


Ahm, perhaps not yet? I might give it a gander, though...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReactOS



RW-Column
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Moose]
#324365 - 04/09/14 09:20 AM


XP has like 40% of the OS market. So much so that the UK government paid M$ 8 million to extend support for XP.

There are some companies I contract for that has NT4 still in active operation. You have to look at the cost of upgrading of an extremely stable OS, in this economy. The ROI on infrastructure alone makes companies slow to upgrade or migrate.

I know that NT4 is extreme for this argument, but there are hundreds of custom applications that do not work in windows 7/8. Microsoft is rubbing its greedy hands together for the corporate support revenue.



Dullaron
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: RW-Column]
#324366 - 04/09/14 09:59 AM


> XP has like 40% of the OS market. So much so that the UK government paid M$ 8 million
> to extend support for XP.
>
> There are some companies I contract for that has NT4 still in active operation. You
> have to look at the cost of upgrading of an extremely stable OS, in this economy. The
> ROI on infrastructure alone makes companies slow to upgrade or migrate.
>
> I know that NT4 is extreme for this argument, but there are hundreds of custom
> applications that do not work in windows 7/8. Microsoft is rubbing its greedy hands
> together for the corporate support revenue.

You are right about the Windows Vista, 7 and 8. Microsoft doesn't keep the old software's support in the newer Windows. I say they are a biggest fail. What if Bill Gates want to play his old games? It not gonna happen Bill Gates. Stick to XP or any older Windows. So fuck you too.

Anyone here works for Microsoft please tell them on what I said.



MooglyGuy
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: JWJr]
#324370 - 04/09/14 10:49 AM


> Again, your "ignorance" is assuming that every computer in use is net-connected, and
> therefore vulnerable. And also, assuming you're the only "geek" in this conversation.
> -JW

If the computer isn't connected to a network, then hell, there's no reason not to run whatever OS works best for your workflow. It's just that if you're running XP or 95 or 3.1 or whatever because of the need to control some old CNC machine or scientific equipment, it'd better be air-gapped.

In the case of the machines Robbbert mentioned, it sounded to me like he was referring to an entire corporate network, and the idea of something like that still running XP gives me the creeping horrors.



MooglyGuy
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: DMala]
#324371 - 04/09/14 10:55 AM


> In his defense, setting up partitions for a Linux install *is* pretty daunting if
> you've never done it before. At least back when I first did it, it wasn't exactly
> clear what they were all for, or if the default settings were adequate. Sad to say,
> Ubuntu is probably the most user friendly distro of the lot. If you can't hack it
> with Ubuntu, you're unlikely to have any better luck anywhere else.

I dunno, I just don't get that. Maybe it was daunting 2-3 years ago, but these days it's about as point-and-drool as installing Windows 7 is, and more so than installing Windows XP. I still remember when you had to create like 4-5 partitions for everything ranging from / to /home to /swap to /boot to even more partitions than just that.

I'm not particularly enthusiastic about Linux in general given that Windows does everything I need it to do, but I've heard - and completely believe - stories about people whose grandparents are able to use Linux without issues since they just use it as a generic Internet-connected box. If all you care about is browsing the web and maybe some other simple stuff, then Linux works fine once you get over the (minor) bump in the road of installation.



Vas Crabb
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#324374 - 04/09/14 11:29 AM


> If the computer isn't connected to a network, then hell, there's no reason not to run
> whatever OS works best for your workflow. It's just that if you're running XP or 95
> or 3.1 or whatever because of the need to control some old CNC machine or scientific
> equipment, it'd better be air-gapped.

Air-gapping didn't save anyone from Stuxnet. You need to be damn careful if you want to run unpatched and not get pwn3d.



URherenow
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Don't be a moron new [Re: Dullaron]
#324375 - 04/09/14 11:43 AM


There aren't any software incompatabilites, except perhaps the occasional driver for out of date hardware. That's not entirely Microsoft's fault.

Aaron Giles works for Microsoft and many people here would kill you in your sleep for attacking him,verbally or otherwise.



Anonymous
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Traso]
#324378 - 04/09/14 03:09 PM


> Computers should come from the factory with system and data partitions. I should be able to point at a partition and install.

What you're asking for is essentially impossible. There are two partitioning schemes in common use and many more file systems to choose from. The factory can't know what you want to use.

> but I did check 'format' in the box, and still it required more.
> Nonsense, unless I'm setting up a server or some corporate shit.

Windows used to be harder to setup, Microsoft made it easier because it cuts down on the number of support calls. The more options you give people, the more likely they are to get it wrong.

Linux developers don't care about support calls if you mess up the install and most people that use it can (or like to think they can) cope with the complexity of it.

I run Windows 8.1, but I'd drop to 7 before I put myself through the pain of switching to Linux or XP.

Edited by smf (04/09/14 03:09 PM)



R. Belmont
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: ]
#324383 - 04/09/14 06:09 PM


> Linux developers don't care about support calls if you mess up the install and most
> people that use it can (or like to think they can) cope with the complexity of it.

On the contrary, Linux is driven now by several large corporations who care a lot about support calls, and they employ most of the developers, so they get to care too.

Thus the current Red Hat/Fedora installer asks almost exactly the same questions as the Win 7 installer, aside from the "what kind of system is this?" drop-down that determines the default software mix. And they all have defaults that will give you a very usable system.



R. Belmont
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: krick]
#324384 - 04/09/14 06:13 PM


> So don't underestimate crazy.

MAME ships with OS/2 support out of the box. That's arguably crazier than 98/ME



Traso
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: R. Belmont]
#324505 - 04/11/14 06:35 AM



Quote:


...the current Red Hat/Fedora installer asks almost exactly the same questions as the Win 7 installer, aside from the "what kind of system is this?" drop-down that determines the default software mix. And they all have defaults that will give you a very usable system.




I thought someone might at least mention another simpler build. I'll check it out. My experience being almost strictly with Windows, and only seeing modern devices of the 'mobile' nature using other than NTFS, I didn't know whether Linux was different. At the very least, I thought Linux would default to something, and I didn't think I'd have to care really what it was.



Dullaron
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Re: How is the ReactOS? XP clone. new [Re: Traso]
#324506 - 04/11/14 06:38 AM


> > Should we move onto that? Any better?
>
>
> Ahm, perhaps not yet? I might give it a gander, though...
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReactOS

Don't worry about it. I saw a review on this on YouTube. The guy said don't use it because of so many things won't work. Still in Alpha stage. lol



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Traso]
#324538 - 04/11/14 08:40 PM


You have got to be joking. After you spend a few minutes setting up 7 to look like XP, there is no big difference at all. Identical.



Traso
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Smitdogg]
#324648 - 04/13/14 10:06 PM


> You have got to be joking. After you spend a few minutes setting up 7 to look like
> XP, there is no big difference at all. Identical.

I think you missed the part about the stuff in the control panel that I'll never use, and how they changed things around there and re-named them, and made it confusing, etc, etc.

Another factor here is that I've been using TinyXP for ages, and would like to use Tiny7....except that for some reason auto-update doesn't work. No one else apparently has had this problem. It won't manually update, either, and while people have had this problem, it's been with (apparently) stock 7.


So I looked into Fedora. I can see why people would like it for mobile devices (especially as it live boots way faster than Ubuntu), or with simplicity in mind. I prefer a more conventional desktop and task bar set-up, half of the stuff in the 'activities' bar I will never use (damn web presence stuff, I tell ya), and none of that is easily changeable by looking in the settings. Ah well.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Traso]
#324649 - 04/13/14 10:18 PM


Dude it takes all of one day to get used to little Windows changes like that, you are choosing instead of that to learn a completely different OS. It would take an average person years to learn Linux as well as they already know Windows. Windows 7 is the best OS Microsoft has ever made. It's XP2.



Traso
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Smitdogg]
#324655 - 04/14/14 01:51 AM


> Dude it takes all of one day to get used to little Windows changes like that, you are
> choosing instead of that to learn a completely different OS. It would take an average
> person years to learn Linux as well as they already know Windows. Windows 7 is the
> best OS Microsoft has ever made. It's XP2.

Oh I've been exploring both. MS should've made a package that was skinnable and modular, like Linux is, except that it would included everything, and then you could slim/change stuff. Anyways, looks like I'll have to go full Win7. Sure there are worse things, but, eh.....



URherenow
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Traso]
#324656 - 04/14/14 02:26 AM



http://www.pcworld.com/article/195601/Restore_the_Classic_Control_Panel_in_Windows_7.html

http://www.askvg.com/how-to-get-classic-...ws-vista-and-7/

Once again, there is nothing you can do on XP that you can't do on 7. Period. If anything else gets on your nerves about it, I can assure you that google has an answer for you.



Sune
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: URherenow]
#324660 - 04/14/14 04:56 AM


> Once again, there is nothing you can do on XP that you can't do on 7. Period.

Off the top of my head, I can think of two things but I'm sure there are a lot more.

- You can't install software that shipped with 16-bit installers (there are workarounds..but not for everything).

- There are no gameport drivers for 64-bit Windows 7.

S



URherenow
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Sune]
#324665 - 04/14/14 09:50 AM


> > Once again, there is nothing you can do on XP that you can't do on 7. Period.
>
> Off the top of my head, I can think of two things but I'm sure there are a lot more.
>
> - You can't install software that shipped with 16-bit installers (there are
> workarounds..but not for everything).

So what if you can't use the installers? Unpack the darn thing and install it yourself.
if it needs registry entries and something is broken, put the keys into the wow64 section and that will sort it out.

>
> - There are no gameport drivers for 64-bit Windows 7.
>
Not Microsoft's fault. Whomever made the motherboard or soundcard (or whatever addon you use) has to make the drivers. Blame creativelabs if that's what you're talking about.

Or just buy a gameport to usb adapter. Gameport is just to old to bother supporting.
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/usb-game-port-adapter



Vas Crabb
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: URherenow]
#324667 - 04/14/14 11:43 AM


> So what if you can't use the installers? Unpack the darn thing and install it
> yourself.
> if it needs registry entries and something is broken, put the keys into the wow64
> section and that will sort it out.

You actually can't run any 16-bit Windows software without an emulator. 16-bit Windows-on-Windows is no longer supported.



Robbbert
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#324668 - 04/14/14 11:49 AM





URherenow
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#324669 - 04/14/14 11:58 AM


Yea, I guess you're right. This whole splitting hairs thing is getting retarded though. It's not like people frequenting these boards have something against emulation

Half of the games I just downloaded from GoG run in DosBox for Christ's sake.



Traso
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Re: End of days: XP question(s) new [Re: URherenow]
#324686 - 04/14/14 11:25 PM



Quote:


Gameport is just to old to bother supporting.

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/usb-game-port-www.ebay.com/bhp/usb-game-port-adapter





Yeah. And yeah; I still have one, though I (instead) used it for midi in around '99, and haven't since about '01. Geez, even back then, when I didn't have my own computer, I thought it was an antiquated set-up. Eww.



Quote:


If anything else gets on your nerves about it, I can assure you that google has an answer for you.




Like I said, nothing should've changed, and I shouldn't have to find out how I can change it - albeit incompletely - back. It's mostly little things, but those are the things that make the experience. For example: ain't no reason to live with someone you love, and possibly are in love with, whom you know you're going to murder if they don't keep quarters the same way. Just no.



Traso
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Getting settled..... new [Re: Traso]
#324815 - 04/17/14 05:28 AM


So I went with full 7, and have finally almost finished setting things up how I'd like: got quick launch, got rid of navigation pane and library tool bar and all that shit, set up WMP to always be on playlist and visualization pane (jesus, the library window is fucking persistent). Goddamn upward curve there....

The only apparently insurmountable element is disabling 'align to grid', meaning I can't move my files around within Explorer folders to wherever I want. You still can on the desktop.... You can disable auto-arrange, but I want that because it lines 'em up for ya. So, that's Gay.

Also haven't tried networking, I often move files to and from my main rig, but that isn't critical.

One down, two more to go.



Sune
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Re: Getting settled..... new [Re: Traso]
#324963 - 04/19/14 05:23 PM


> Also haven't tried networking, I often move files to and from my main rig, but that
> isn't critical.

Go to Control Panel\Network and Internet\Network and Sharing Center\Advanced sharing settings and under the "home" profile, enable/disable the obvious. Disable password protected sharing.

A "Homegroup" will be created by default, but if you're not using the library stuff then disable it. Leave "allow Windows to manage Homegroup connections" on.

This will share the "public" folder as well as any folder you manually set as shared, on every PC across your LAN, as long as they are in the same "workgroup", accessible under "Network" in the left pane.

You'll also be able to access the public folder of a Mac (if it has the appropriate filesharing settings enabled) from there.

Super easy.

S



Traso
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Re: Getting settled..... new [Re: Sune]
#325174 - 04/25/14 12:04 AM


> > Also haven't tried networking, I often move files to and from my main rig, but that
> > isn't critical.
>
> Go to Control Panel\Network and Internet\Network and Sharing Center\Advanced sharing
> settings and under the "home" profile, enable/disable the obvious. Disable password
> protected sharing.
>
> A "Homegroup" will be created by default, but if you're not using the library stuff
> then disable it. Leave "allow Windows to manage Homegroup connections" on.
>
> This will share the "public" folder as well as any folder you manually set as shared,
> on every PC across your LAN, as long as they are in the same "workgroup", accessible
> under "Network" in the left pane.
>
> You'll also be able to access the public folder of a Mac (if it has the appropriate
> filesharing settings enabled) from there.
>
> Super easy.
>
> S

Well. Ain't so. I googled, too, and didn't find fuck. (I'm a little pissed off, and am in the mood to smash shit, so I ain't got no patience right now.)

So. My main rig is Win7, and the target PC is also Win7. (I can access one of my still-existing XP machines without hitch....)

On the target PC, I checked 'on' in everything, and password off, in both home and public. I can see the target PC, click on it, and see the folders available - Documents, Pictures, Music, etc - But....clicking on those gives me a box saying they ain't accessible. Huhn?

So, do you have an idea on this?



URherenow
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Re: Getting settled..... new [Re: Traso]
#325182 - 04/25/14 04:06 AM


Permissions.

Either use a password, or in the case of a media folder with no important information in it (music and movies only, that you want to access with a TV or Apple TV or something), give read and execute permissions to the "everyone" group.

Honestly though, you should set up your home group on one, and join that home group with the other and permissions should be set automatically. You can't create a homegroup on a basic Windows 7 install though; you can only create one in Windows 7 Home Premium, Professional, Ultimate, or Enterprise editions.



http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/products/features/homegroup



Traso
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Re: Getting settled..... new [Re: URherenow]
#325188 - 04/25/14 05:27 AM


> Permissions.
>
> Either use a password, or in the case of a media folder with no important information
> in it (music and movies only, that you want to access with a TV or Apple TV or
> something), give read and execute permissions to the "everyone" group.
>
> Honestly though, you should set up your home group on one, and join that home group
> with the other and permissions should be set automatically. You can't create a
> homegroup on a basic Windows 7 install though; you can only create one in Windows 7
> Home Premium, Professional, Ultimate, or Enterprise editions.
>
>
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/products/features/homegroup


Main is Ultimate, target is Pro. And, yeah, it's as you say. I checked permissions before I posted last. I couldn't even add my main rig. It said 'not there'.

Tried the troubleshooter, and it said the time in the target wasn't synced. ?? So I managed to do that - kept erroring out, had to go to the bottom of the list of sites - but that didn't help, neither.

I tried leaving and coming back to the homegroup, but nope. Just weird. (I ain't even tried the password thing, cos I don't want it that way.) I don't know....

Oh, by the way, I *can* access the Users folder on target PC. Weird. (I don't want that either, cos I don't want to be moving shit there just to get at it.)



Sune
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Re: Getting settled..... new [Re: Traso]
#325206 - 04/25/14 06:04 PM Attachment: Share.png 56 KB (0 downloads)


> Oh, by the way, I *can* access the Users folder on target PC. Weird. (I don't want
> that either, cos I don't want to be moving shit there just to get at it.)

Then any drive or folder that you specifically share should appear there as well.

That's how it works here. I'm trying to remember but I'm pretty sure I haven't done anything else besides what I described earlier.

S

[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]

Attachment



keshbach1
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Re: Getting settled..... new [Re: Traso]
#325223 - 04/26/14 03:07 AM


If you want to share stuff you can use the junction tool from www.sysinternals.com and set up a junction to the relevant directory at the SharedDocs folder. This is what I'm doing to share three separate directories with another computer on my home network and avoid fighting the way Windows 7 does networking.



Kevin Eshbach


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