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gregf
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Ville Linde and Model 3 update
#332990 - 10/09/14 07:54 AM



October 8, 2014
Currently rewriting the Sega Model 3 video code. Here's Magical Truck Adventure.

note: Actual emulation of gameplay in real time will be much slower than what is shown in the AVI file format recording of emulated gameplay.

Future Model 3 todo list posted by Ville Linde.


For those not aware of Supermdodel status, RB posted info earlier.

Edited by gregf (10/09/14 03:53 PM)



Osso1
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: gregf]
#332991 - 10/09/14 08:57 AM


Wow, looking really good!



Formerly (un)known as hanamichi on the mameworld.info message boards.



RetroLover
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Osso1]
#332994 - 10/09/14 09:48 AM


> Wow, looking really good!

Not only this, it's looking pretty fast as well!

Regards,
RetroLover



MooglyGuy
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: RetroLover]
#332996 - 10/09/14 11:55 AM


> > Wow, looking really good!
>
> Not only this, it's looking pretty fast as well!

You've been here for the past 8 years, how have you missed all of the posts where it's reiterated that when you log an AVI from MAME, the video itself runs at full speed regardless of the speed at which MAME itself was running? It could have been running at 3fps on his machine, the AVI would still play back at full speed.



VirtuaIceMan
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: gregf]
#332999 - 10/09/14 03:11 PM


Magical Truck Adventure looks batshit insane... here was I thinking the Rail Chase games were pretty unusual, but 2 kids using a hand powered cart whilst his pet puffin flies overhead takes some sort of (magical) biscuit!



R. Belmont
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: VirtuaIceMan]
#333000 - 10/09/14 03:34 PM


> Magical Truck Adventure looks batshit insane... here was I thinking the Rail Chase
> games were pretty unusual, but 2 kids using a hand powered cart whilst his pet puffin
> flies overhead takes some sort of (magical) biscuit!

Yeah, this is very much like Rail Chase on acid or something. I wasn't expecting it to be quite like that.



SlenderMaster
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: VirtuaIceMan]
#333002 - 10/09/14 04:00 PM


> Magical Truck Adventure looks batshit insane... here was I thinking the Rail Chase
> games were pretty unusual, but 2 kids using a hand powered cart whilst his pet puffin
> flies overhead takes some sort of (magical) biscuit!

The most expensive game in my country, this game was at the top 10 in that year. I have no reason to say, this game is really amazing!
Thanks Ville.



gregf
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#333003 - 10/09/14 04:01 PM



>> Not only this, it's looking pretty fast as well!


>where it's reiterated that when you log an AVI from MAME, the video itself runs at full
>speed regardless of the speed at which MAME itself was running? It could have been
>running at 3fps on his machine, the AVI would still play back at full speed.

I updated my post to include that reminder in case any others forget about that and aren't given false impression about emulated gameplay speed when they watch the video.



SlenderMaster
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: gregf]
#333004 - 10/09/14 04:03 PM


> >> Not only this, it's looking pretty fast as well!
>
>
> > where it's reiterated that when you log an AVI from MAME, the video itself runs at
> full
> > speed regardless of the speed at which MAME itself was running? It could have been
> > running at 3fps on his machine, the AVI would still play back at full speed.
>
> I updated my post to include that reminder in case any others forget about that and
> aren't given false impression about emulated gameplay speed when they watch the
> video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx0BzdwKDzA



R. Belmont
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: gregf]
#333013 - 10/09/14 08:16 PM


> note: Actual emulation of gameplay in real time will be much slower than what is
> shown in the AVI file format recording of emulated gameplay.

"May be". Before all the rewritten stuff Scud Race ran 100% with some drops on high-end systems. The better code may well be faster, we don't know yet.



Ville Linde
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: R. Belmont]
#333015 - 10/09/14 08:37 PM


> "May be". Before all the rewritten stuff Scud Race ran 100% with some drops on
> high-end systems. The better code may well be faster, we don't know yet.

Scud Race runs at around 60-80% on my ancient 2.8GHz Lynnfield.



Vas Crabb
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: R. Belmont]
#333022 - 10/09/14 10:40 PM


> > Magical Truck Adventure looks batshit insane... here was I thinking the Rail Chase
> > games were pretty unusual, but 2 kids using a hand powered cart whilst his pet puffin
> > flies overhead takes some sort of (magical) biscuit!
>
> Yeah, this is very much like Rail Chase on acid or something. I wasn't expecting it
> to be quite like that.

A lot of the entertainment value comes from the control setup. It won't be the same without that.



zambr
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Cab Link Code new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#333024 - 10/09/14 11:19 PM


LAN or Same PC Cab Linking Code

Is there little known about network boards used on multi cab machines? Just curious to know why there has never been a working example of this in MAME over the years, especially in regards to 1st gen multi-cabs.

With all the great drivers added over the years, and all the hard work that's gone into making them playable, it seems a pity that there has never been a working example.

Is it a MAME source structure issue or something? I seem to recall someone mentioned something about sockets in the past.

I'm also guessing that something like Rave Racer, running 2 instances of, would be a huge drain on resources.

Edited by zambr (10/09/14 11:48 PM)



superrama
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: gregf]
#333025 - 10/10/14 02:21 AM


Bart recently mentioned he does not have the time to update the supermodel emu but he did start rewriting some of it. Have you two been in contact?



RetroLover
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#333032 - 10/10/14 08:19 AM



> You've been here for the past 8 years, how have you missed all of the posts where
> it's reiterated that when you log an AVI from MAME, the video itself runs at full
> speed regardless of the speed at which MAME itself was running? It could have been
> running at 3fps on his machine, the AVI would still play back at full speed.

I have been here even longer and am into MAME since the very beginning!

I just said that it's looking pretty fast as well and allthough I didn't know the info you mentioned, I'am really not blind

Life goes on, I have less time to read every message here in the meantime, but MAME and MESS will always accompany me.

Best regards,
RetroLover



SailorSat
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Re: Cab Link Code new [Re: zambr]
#333050 - 10/10/14 02:51 PM


> LAN or Same PC Cab Linking Code
>
> Is there little known about network boards used on multi cab machines? Just curious
> to know why there has never been a working example of this in MAME over the years,
> especially in regards to 1st gen multi-cabs.
>
> With all the great drivers added over the years, and all the hard work that's gone
> into making them playable, it seems a pity that there has never been a working
> example.

Well...

Take a look at this thread.

Or take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zot2gQ-EBh0&list=UUm-TaQk5H1eC-1uMMBjF2Ow (or some of the other videos on my channel)

Still lots of homework to do on that topic.

Edited by SailorSat (10/10/14 02:54 PM)



I do all that stuff even without a Joystick
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.



Dullaron
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: gregf]
#333051 - 10/10/14 04:02 PM


> October 8, 2014
> Currently rewriting the Sega Model 3 video code. Here's Magical Truck Adventure.
>
> note: Actual emulation of gameplay in real time will be much slower than what is
> shown in the AVI file format recording of emulated gameplay.
>
> Future Model 3 todo list posted by Ville Linde.
>
>
> For those not aware of Supermdodel status, RB posted info earlier.

First time seeing this game. Looking good.



Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Intel Core i5-4460 3.20 GHz / 8.00 GB RAM / AMD Radeon R9 200 Series
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https://sites.google.com/site/o0kinghanco0o/mame_building_info (Updated on the 07/18/2017 at 9:49 PM.)



Embryoice
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Dullaron]
#333055 - 10/10/14 05:48 PM


After you rewrite most of the graphics on that code, are you going to put this on the Supermodel code to make the job done?



zambr
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Re: Cab Link Code new [Re: SailorSat]
#333065 - 10/10/14 10:58 PM


> > LAN or Same PC Cab Linking Code
> >
> > Is there little known about network boards used on multi cab machines? Just curious
> > to know why there has never been a working example of this in MAME over the years,
> > especially in regards to 1st gen multi-cabs.
> >
> > With all the great drivers added over the years, and all the hard work that's gone
> > into making them playable, it seems a pity that there has never been a working
> > example.
>
> Well...
>
> Take a look at this thread.
>
> Or take a look at
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zot2gQ-EBh0&list=UUm-TaQk5H1eC-1uMMBjF2Ow (or
> some of the other videos on my channel)
>
> Still lots of homework to do on that topic.

Hi there, thanks for the info. Very interesting WIP thread, which I had not seen before.

I have played around with cabMAME in the past, impressive stuff.

I see now why no official MAME has this included, because of the hacks. Just for the record, I was referring to official MAME over a working example (just so you know what I was thinking).

Hopefully you have not given up with this research, sounds very exciting :P

Edited by zambr (10/10/14 11:11 PM)



MooglyGuy
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Re: Cab Link Code new [Re: zambr]
#333069 - 10/11/14 12:35 AM


> LAN or Same PC Cab Linking Code
>
> Is there little known about network boards used on multi cab machines? Just curious
> to know why there has never been a working example of this in MAME over the years,
> especially in regards to 1st gen multi-cabs.
>
> With all the great drivers added over the years, and all the hard work that's gone
> into making them playable, it seems a pity that there has never been a working
> example.
>
> Is it a MAME source structure issue or something? I seem to recall someone mentioned
> something about sockets in the past.
>
> I'm also guessing that something like Rave Racer, running 2 instances of, would be a
> huge drain on resources.

What does this have at all to do with the thread that's been posted?



Outrun2006
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Re: Cab Link Code new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#333086 - 10/11/14 10:15 AM


Thanks for the update.

Hopefully Ville will continue to improve model 3 not only in mame but in Supermodel as well, since that's where I'd prefer to play model 3 games.



Master O
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Re: Cab Link Code new [Re: Outrun2006]
#333105 - 10/12/14 03:04 AM


> Thanks for the update.
>
> Hopefully Ville will continue to improve model 3 not only in mame but in Supermodel
> as well, since that's where I'd prefer to play model 3 games.


Quote:


model3: New 3D renderer + various fixes (still heavily WIP) [Ville Linde]

http://git.redump.net/mame/commit/?id=d22a20fde0ea4d2ebffc25015843a8cc88d9fd54







"Note to Noobs:

We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.

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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#333107 - 10/12/14 04:08 AM


> A lot of the entertainment value comes from the control setup. It won't be the same
> without that.

That's even more true of an oft-requested game wherein the real gameplay is a physical battle between player 1's and 2's controls which physically intersect; the game itself is basically a glorified scorekeeper, like bowling alleys have nowadays.



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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Embryoice]
#333110 - 10/12/14 08:47 AM


> After you rewrite most of the graphics on that code, are you going to put this on the
> Supermodel code to make the job done?

Supermodel works almost completely differently from MAME, so what you're saying is gibberish.



nuexzz
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: R. Belmont]
#333115 - 10/12/14 09:39 AM


then it works better here or nik bart can read and interpret the code mame to rewrite the graphics engine supermodel (Which will not happen soon) ?

Edited by nuexzz (10/12/14 09:39 AM)



Vas Crabb
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: nuexzz]
#333116 - 10/12/14 09:40 AM


> then it works better here or nik bart can read and interpret the code mame to rewrite
> the graphics engine supermodel (Which will not happen soon) ?

Supermodel is dead. Get over it.



Stranno
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: gregf]
#333128 - 10/12/14 06:11 PM


A little test of Magical Truck Adventure, real speed, on 3770K 4,2GHz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE03Nq0tEsQ

I still dont understand why the truck tilt automatically in random places.

Edited by stranno (10/12/14 06:20 PM)



Outrun2006
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#333134 - 10/13/14 01:15 AM


> > then it works better here or nik bart can read and interpret the code mame to
> rewrite
> > the graphics engine supermodel (Which will not happen soon) ?
>
> Supermodel is dead. Get over it.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Way to be overly negative.

It may be dead to you sir, but a lot of us are still big fans of this emulator and want to see development on it continue. The bottomline is,

A)There is nothing stopping Ville from working on Supermodel. He might have plans to continue where Bart left off for all we know.

B)Bart is a busy man but hopefully this information provided by Ville will help him make further progress on SuperModel, once he gets time to work on it again.

I understand the significance of having Model 3 hardware accurately emulated in MAME. It will be a very impressive thing to get hardware of this magnitude running in mame considering the complexity of the arcade board. However, for me personally and many others I know, we would simply rather play the games using the Supermodel emulator mainly because:

A)It supports hardware graphics acceleration

B)More importantly, it supports proper force feedback for steering wheels, something mame won't be supporting anytime soon.



R. Belmont
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Outrun2006]
#333137 - 10/13/14 03:51 AM


> A)There is nothing stopping Ville from working on Supermodel.

Well, except for the part where it's dead and Ville's come to the same realization as a lot of us: a good debugger is worth its weight in gold-pressed latinum.

> B)Bart is a busy man but hopefully this information provided by Ville will help him
> make further progress on SuperModel, once he gets time to work on it again.

Unlikely. MAME's Model 3 driver and SuperModel work in very different ways; almost none of the work is directly transferrable, as I attempted to convey above.



Vas Crabb
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Outrun2006]
#333143 - 10/13/14 05:36 AM


> Way to be overly negative.
>
> It may be dead to you sir, but a lot of us are still big fans of this emulator and
> want to see development on it continue. The bottomline is,

I'm not being overly negative, I'm being realistic. Developers have lost interest in maintaining Supermodel, and without active development these kinds of projects die. If you want to keep using current Supermodel that's fine, but you can't expect any support or updates. Being stuck on a dead platform isn't much fun after a while.

> A)There is nothing stopping Ville from working on Supermodel. He might have plans to
> continue where Bart left off for all we know.
>
> B)Bart is a busy man but hopefully this information provided by Ville will help him
> make further progress on SuperModel, once he gets time to work on it again.

Neither of them have expressed interest in improving Supermodel further, and this kind of borderline begging is more likely to turn them off working on either project. Code can't be copied between projects so they'd be doing the work all over again. That's not fun.

> I understand the significance of having Model 3 hardware accurately emulated in MAME.
> It will be a very impressive thing to get hardware of this magnitude running in mame
> considering the complexity of the arcade board. However, for me personally and many
> others I know, we would simply rather play the games using the Supermodel emulator
> mainly because:
>
> A)It supports hardware graphics acceleration
>
> B)More importantly, it supports proper force feedback for steering wheels, something
> mame won't be supporting anytime soon.

Well if you're dead set on using Supermodel, you'll be using the current version. You need to adjust your expectations, and think about the impact your attitude of entitlement will have on the developers' motivation to work on either emulator.



Vas Crabb
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Stranno]
#333144 - 10/13/14 05:37 AM


> A little test of Magical Truck Adventure, real speed, on 3770K 4,2GHz.

You got that close but failed with less than 10% remaining???



Bart T.
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: R. Belmont]
#333146 - 10/13/14 05:57 AM Attachment: SuperDebugger.png 1490 KB (1 downloads)


> > A)There is nothing stopping Ville from working on Supermodel.
>
> Well, except for the part where it's dead and Ville's come to the same realization as
> a lot of us: a good debugger is worth its weight in gold-pressed latinum.

You might be interested to know that Nik cooked up something that makes MAME's debugger look like MS-DOS DEBUG.COM. Sadly, like the network board emulation, I only have a sample binary and Nik didn't get a chance to push his code before he became busy and disappeared. Feast your eyes on what could have been...

(Yes, you can rotate, zoom, and explore the scene *in real-time* as the game runs!)

[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]

Attachment



Bart



nuexzz
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Bart T.]
#333148 - 10/13/14 08:39 AM


thank you Outrun2006 to be entirely consistent and Bart for filling my eyes shine





haha..

Edited by nuexzz (10/13/14 08:54 AM)



Embryoice
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: nuexzz]
#333149 - 10/13/14 09:30 AM


So Bart, are there any plans to make a 3D Model and Texture viewer so that I can rip some unused models and put it into the community?



drewcifer
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Bart T.]
#333150 - 10/13/14 10:54 AM


> > > A)There is nothing stopping Ville from working on Supermodel.
> >
> > Well, except for the part where it's dead and Ville's come to the same realization
> as
> > a lot of us: a good debugger is worth its weight in gold-pressed latinum.
>
> You might be interested to know that Nik cooked up something that makes MAME's
> debugger look like MS-DOS DEBUG.COM. Sadly, like the network board emulation, I only
> have a sample binary and Nik didn't get a chance to push his code before he became
> busy and disappeared. Feast your eyes on what could have been...
>
> (Yes, you can rotate, zoom, and explore the scene *in real-time* as the game runs!)

Super-sweet! I never thought of it before, but if all of MAME's polygon games use polynew.h (or whatever it's called these days), then the MAME debugger can get a similar interface someday. Hmmm...

(There are a lot of other really cool things in there too - hope it sees the light of day at some point!)

/Andrew



Olivier Galibert
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: drewcifer]
#333154 - 10/13/14 03:48 PM


> Super-sweet! I never thought of it before, but if all of MAME's polygon games use
> polynew.h (or whatever it's called these days), then the MAME debugger can get a
> similar interface someday. Hmmm...

'fraid not. poly* is all about the rendering (think post-vertex shader level). Doing such a way cool interface requires to be hooked before that, at transform time. That's doable in the non-console 3d systems, I think, which always had hardware (or hardware-ish, e.g. DSP) T&L.

OG.



Master O
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#333162 - 10/13/14 09:58 PM


> > Way to be overly negative.
> >
> > It may be dead to you sir, but a lot of us are still big fans of this emulator and
> > want to see development on it continue. The bottomline is,
>
> I'm not being overly negative, I'm being realistic. Developers have lost interest in
> maintaining Supermodel, and without active development these kinds of projects die.
> If you want to keep using current Supermodel that's fine, but you can't expect any
> support or updates. Being stuck on a dead platform isn't much fun after a while.
>
> > A)There is nothing stopping Ville from working on Supermodel. He might have plans
> to
> > continue where Bart left off for all we know.
> >
> > B)Bart is a busy man but hopefully this information provided by Ville will help him
> > make further progress on SuperModel, once he gets time to work on it again.
>
> Neither of them have expressed interest in improving Supermodel further, and this
> kind of borderline begging is more likely to turn them off working on either project.
> Code can't be copied between projects so they'd be doing the work all over again.
> That's not fun.
>
> > I understand the significance of having Model 3 hardware accurately emulated in
> MAME.
> > It will be a very impressive thing to get hardware of this magnitude running in
> mame
> > considering the complexity of the arcade board. However, for me personally and many
> > others I know, we would simply rather play the games using the Supermodel emulator
> > mainly because:
> >
> > A)It supports hardware graphics acceleration
> >
> > B)More importantly, it supports proper force feedback for steering wheels,
> something
> > mame won't be supporting anytime soon.
>
> Well if you're dead set on using Supermodel, you'll be using the current version. You
> need to adjust your expectations, and think about the impact your attitude of
> entitlement will have on the developers' motivation to work on either emulator.

Let's hope Outrun2006 keeps asking for more Supermodel support, because he will be smacked down hard if he tries.

It will be very funny to watch.



"Note to Noobs:

We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.

C.D.~"



Traso
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Master O]
#333171 - 10/14/14 03:04 AM


> Let's hope Outrun2006 keeps asking for more Supermodel support, because he will be smacked down hard if he tries. It will be very funny to watch.


I'm waiting for a 'holy fuckola!' remark from Arby. I tell ya, my prescience was rising at such scoffing mention of Supermodel and all.....

On that note, given the mentioned condition of the Supermodel project, I would guess ardent requests and fandom would entice the old hands TO work on it. 'Someone might use it, oh...', you know.

Note: I've never Played a Supermodel game, and am not really interested, just curious about some of the ins and outs of things and all.



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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Embryoice]
#333173 - 10/14/14 03:27 AM


> So Bart, are there any plans to make a 3D Model and Texture viewer so that I can rip
> some unused models and put it into the community?

This was a feature that would have been nice to implement in the debugger but is unlikely to happen anytime soon. Textures are pretty easy to dump into a large 2048x2048 pixel image (actually, several such images, one for each of the possible encoding schemes). Writing the models (or even better, entire branches of the scene graph from some arbitrary node down) to a file would probably be straightforward, except perhaps for wrapped texture coordinates -- I'm not sure how 3D model formats handle those. Arguably the most interesting models are the vehicles from Scud Race and Daytona 2, the dinosaurs from Jurassic Park, and maybe characters from the fighting games, but these all happen to rely heavily on dynamic effects, such as environment mapping to simulate reflective surfaces, and procedural meshes for skinning. Dumps of the models would only be static snapshots. And without an interface to visually select the models, as the debugger provides, it's not really worth the effort. Duplicating Nik's copious work from scratch is far beyond the spare time and motivation available to me.

However, I'm always happy to see someone else take over Supermodel or hack new features into it and am always willing to answer technical questions about its code base and share what I know about Model 3.



Bart



R. Belmont
Cuckoo for Konami
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Bart T.]
#333181 - 10/14/14 04:46 AM


> busy and disappeared. Feast your eyes on what could have been...

Wearing my portability hat, I have nothing polite to say about that screenshot.

Otherwise, yeah, there's some interesting features, even if some of it's a bit Hollywood. If we can achieve Lua scripts doing BGFX rendering into custom debugger views in MAME I think some similarly Hollywood stuff is definitely possible.



Bart T.
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Traso]
#333182 - 10/14/14 05:11 AM


> On that note, given the mentioned condition of the Supermodel project, I would guess
> ardent requests and fandom would entice the old hands TO work on it. 'Someone might
> use it, oh...', you know.

It doesn't quite work that way.



Bart T.
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: R. Belmont]
#333184 - 10/14/14 05:19 AM


> > busy and disappeared. Feast your eyes on what could have been...
>
> Wearing my portability hat, I have nothing polite to say about that screenshot.

It's wxWidgets-based. Nik developed under both Windows and Linux and I wouldn't be surprised if he had it working equally well on both.

> Otherwise, yeah, there's some interesting features, even if some of it's a bit
> Hollywood. If we can achieve Lua scripts doing BGFX rendering into custom debugger
> views in MAME I think some similarly Hollywood stuff is definitely possible.

This thing isn't merely just Hollywood. It's this:



Coolness factor aside, the debugger did help Nik make real progress, FWIW, which is why I think he wrote it.



Outrun2006
MAME Fan
Reged: 03/15/07
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Master O]
#333187 - 10/14/14 07:25 AM


> > > Way to be overly negative.
> > >
> > > It may be dead to you sir, but a lot of us are still big fans of this emulator
> and
> > > want to see development on it continue. The bottomline is,
> >
> > I'm not being overly negative, I'm being realistic. Developers have lost interest
> in
> > maintaining Supermodel, and without active development these kinds of projects die.
> > If you want to keep using current Supermodel that's fine, but you can't expect any
> > support or updates. Being stuck on a dead platform isn't much fun after a while.
> >
> > > A)There is nothing stopping Ville from working on Supermodel. He might have plans
> > to
> > > continue where Bart left off for all we know.
> > >
> > > B)Bart is a busy man but hopefully this information provided by Ville will help
> him
> > > make further progress on SuperModel, once he gets time to work on it again.
> >
> > Neither of them have expressed interest in improving Supermodel further, and this
> > kind of borderline begging is more likely to turn them off working on either
> project.
> > Code can't be copied between projects so they'd be doing the work all over again.
> > That's not fun.
> >
> > > I understand the significance of having Model 3 hardware accurately emulated in
> > MAME.
> > > It will be a very impressive thing to get hardware of this magnitude running in
> > mame
> > > considering the complexity of the arcade board. However, for me personally and
> many
> > > others I know, we would simply rather play the games using the Supermodel
> emulator
> > > mainly because:
> > >
> > > A)It supports hardware graphics acceleration
> > >
> > > B)More importantly, it supports proper force feedback for steering wheels,
> > something
> > > mame won't be supporting anytime soon.
> >
> > Well if you're dead set on using Supermodel, you'll be using the current version.
> You
> > need to adjust your expectations, and think about the impact your attitude of
> > entitlement will have on the developers' motivation to work on either emulator.
>
> Let's hope Outrun2006 keeps asking for more Supermodel support, because he will be
> smacked down hard if he tries.
>
> It will be very funny to watch.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

OK let me address this since you guys are quick to judge me as a begging, thankless fanboy:

Do you guys understand the difference between hoping for something, and downright asking for it? I never asked Bart or Ville directly to keep working on SuperModel......I said "I would like" and "I hope".....there is a difference. You guys are acting like I said "Oh Bart can you PLEASE continue Supermodel c'mon man it's not fair sniff ". I don't appreciate you interpreting my posts as begging or being a whining "fanboy".

I've been posting on Bart's forums as "Isamu" for years, and he knows damn well how much I appreciate his work and knows that I completely understand he is busy and can't work on the emulator for now. You guys need to stop assuming that every time a fan says they HOPE something happens or WOULD LIKE for something to happen, they are begging and feel disappointed if they don't get it. We are not begging for anything....we are just passionate fans of this gentlemen and there is nothing wrong with hoping something happens some day.

Is the California Lottery going to get offended if I run into one of their officials/representitives and tell them I hope to win the lottery someday? No. But if I go up to one of them and say "Hey Mr Lotto guy, can you PLEASE give me a winning lotto ticket, I'm an honest guy but I'm broke so I feel entitled to it, c'mon pretty please?" That is whining and begging. There is a difference.

Bart is a stand up guy and he knows I wish him nothing but the best. He knows that I'm extremely grateful for the emulator he's given us. Personally, my experience with the emulator has been nothing but gravy. Daytona 2 works, Scud Race works, and my force feedback steering wheel works just fine. Those are really the only two games I care about, and I really don't need anything else from Supermodel.

Again, I was just saying It would be nice *IF* someone somewhere down the line pick up from where he left off, just for the sake of completing the emulator one day. Even Bart HIMSELF said the same thing.

So c'mon guys, stop labeling people who are fans and occasionally throw words around like "I would like", it would be nice, or "I hope for someday", as beggars. It's kinda offensive. We are not 12yr olds.



drewcifer
One bad Mutha-(shut yo' mouth!)
Reged: 07/01/04
Posts: 427
Loc: Sweden
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Olivier Galibert]
#333188 - 10/14/14 09:07 AM


> > Super-sweet! I never thought of it before, but if all of MAME's polygon games use
> > polynew.h (or whatever it's called these days), then the MAME debugger can get a
> > similar interface someday. Hmmm...
>
> 'fraid not. poly* is all about the rendering (think post-vertex shader level). Doing
> such a way cool interface requires to be hooked before that, at transform time.
> That's doable in the non-console 3d systems, I think, which always had hardware (or
> hardware-ish, e.g. DSP) T&L.
>
> OG.

Ooooh, it's just rasterization. Got it. Thanks for the correction!

And yeah, I agree, polygons and transforms are likely universal in arcades and it might be worth adding a hook, but it's not as "free" as I mistakenly presumed.

/Andrew



VirtuaIceMan
MAME Fan
Reged: 08/22/07
Posts: 168
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Bart T.]
#333367 - 10/17/14 02:49 PM


Hey Bart, is Magical Truck Adventure supported by SuperModel? Was going to post this on the SuperModel forum, but I can't seem to sign in or request a password reset :-/



CTOJAH
MAME Addict
Reged: 07/13/10
Posts: 970
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: VirtuaIceMan]
#333383 - 10/17/14 05:49 PM


From Supermodel emulator site :
Title Graphics Sound

Magical Truck Adventure N/A (does not boot). N/A

Playable? - NO !



VirtuaIceMan
MAME Fan
Reged: 08/22/07
Posts: 168
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: CTOJAH]
#333391 - 10/17/14 10:12 PM


Yeah I was wondering if anything from Ville's work could help to get it to work in SuperModel.



Ville Linde
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: VirtuaIceMan]
#333395 - 10/17/14 10:46 PM


> Yeah I was wondering if anything from Ville's work could help to get it to work in
> SuperModel.

There was barely any work done. It Just Worked™. The country check was literally two bits on a sound register.
The missing textures was an oversight on how the texture FIFO worked, and I'm not even sure if Supermodel suffers from that since it handles DMA transfers a bit differently.



Traso
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Bart T.]
#333399 - 10/17/14 11:57 PM


> > On that note, given the mentioned condition of the Supermodel project, I would guess ardent requests and fandom would entice the old hands TO work on it. 'Someone might use it, oh...', you know.


> It doesn't quite work that way.


I guess I'm just a bit evil-er than most. 'HAH HAH HAH HAH....yes, hail me, and the work I will do, and the pleasure I will give you.....WHEN I will give it to you'. You know?



Bart T.
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Posts: 194
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Traso]
#333423 - 10/18/14 05:23 AM


> > > On that note, given the mentioned condition of the Supermodel project, I would
> guess ardent requests and fandom would entice the old hands TO work on it. 'Someone
> might use it, oh...', you know.
>
>
> > It doesn't quite work that way.
>
>
> I guess I'm just a bit evil-er than most. 'HAH HAH HAH HAH....yes, hail me, and the
> work I will do, and the pleasure I will give you.....WHEN I will give it to you'. You
> know?

No. To get a better sense of where emulator developers are coming from, think about one of your own pastimes. Why do you do it? Because it's fun and brings you pleasure! Do you enjoy sharing and discussing with other like-minded people, either in real life or through some online community? Very likely. How would you feel about being asked by anonymous strangers to spend more time on it for their enjoyment? What if they asked you to spend more time this coming weekend doing X when you really wanted to work on improving Y? What if life got busy, you got a new job, had a kid, or fell in love with a new hobby and someone said 'come on, man, like you can't spare *3 hours per week* doing X?' Would that change your plans for the weekend or after a long day's work?

It's as simple as that



Traso
MAME Fan
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Bart T.]
#333542 - 10/20/14 08:21 PM


> No. To get a better sense of where emulator developers are coming from, think about one of your own pastimes. Why do you do it? Because it's fun and brings you pleasure!

> Do you enjoy sharing and discussing with other like-minded people, either in real life or through some online community? Very likely. How would you feel about being asked by anonymous strangers to spend more time on it for their enjoyment? What if they asked you to spend more time this coming weekend doing X when you really wanted to work on improving Y? What if life got busy, you got a new job, had a kid, or fell in love with a new hobby and someone said 'come on, man, like you can't spare *3 hours per week* doing X?' Would that change your plans for the weekend or after a long day's work?

> It's as simple as that


Apples and moonbeams, yo. Some o doze things is irrelevant for me. And, I'm a paragon of refusing others, and ignoring them if I don't have an answer/feel like answering. Orthogonally, I'm quite open to explaining why I won't do something, or why it's not feasible at the moment.



Anonymous
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Re: Ville Linde and Model 3 update new [Re: Traso]
#333828 - 10/26/14 04:43 PM


> Apples and moonbeams, yo. Some o doze things is irrelevant for me. And, I'm a paragon
> of refusing others, and ignoring them if I don't have an answer/feel like answering.
> Orthogonally, I'm quite open to explaining why I won't do something, or why it's not
> feasible at the moment.

Good for you. Maybe you haven't had enough people grind you down yet.

Edited by smf (10/26/14 04:44 PM)


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