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VirtuaIceMan
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M2 fixed Out Run's always broken music!
#337584 - 03/09/15 11:50 PM


Another fascinating behind the scenes of the 3DS port of Out Run: http://blogs.sega.com/2015/03/09/sega-3d-classics-3d-out-run-part-3/



CTOJAH
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Re: M2 fixed Out Run's always broken music! new [Re: VirtuaIceMan]
#337585 - 03/10/15 12:45 AM


How is this related to MAME NEWS ?



VirtuaIceMan
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Re: M2 fixed Out Run's always broken music! new [Re: CTOJAH]
#337596 - 03/10/15 02:40 PM


> How is this related to MAME NEWS ?

News Submission: "Post here any MAME, MESS, general arcade or arcade emulation related news you'd like the community to know about."

Quoted from http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=2

Edited by VirtuaIceMan (03/10/15 02:40 PM)



mangamuscle
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Re: M2 fixed Out Run's always broken music! new [Re: VirtuaIceMan]
#337600 - 03/10/15 07:51 PM


After reading these part of the article:

The first problem was this one bit in the waveform data for one of the PCM ROMs that is always on and the ROM itself was mass manufactured with it that way. In other words, one of the ROMs in the production version of Out Run has corrupted wave data.


and this

so we burnt a new ROM with the sound data and recorded off of that. So the issue is fixed in that soundtrack.

is there some way to get ahold of the non-corrupt rom? or is it already been released?

The part about splash wave being out of sync also was interesting, but I doubt any mamedev would correct the 48 milliseconds delay (as a cheat).



SmitdoggAdministrator
Reged: 09/18/03
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Re: M2 fixed Out Run's always broken music! new [Re: mangamuscle]
#337623 - 03/11/15 02:06 PM


Going by faded memory there was something posted here a while back who reverse engineered a bunch of Outrun code and patched that. That's probably how Sega found out about it... Maybe somewhere in here:

http://reassembler.blogspot.com/2009/08/outrun-decompilation-project.html

Or maybe someone way back in the day fixed it and it was considered a hacked rom for a while... I really don't remember for sure.



StilettoAdministrator
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Re: M2 fixed Out Run's always broken music! new [Re: Smitdogg]
#337625 - 03/11/15 07:25 PM


> Going by faded memory there was something posted here a while back who reverse
> engineered a bunch of Outrun code and patched that. That's probably how Sega found
> out about it... Maybe somewhere in here:
>
> http://reassembler.blogspot.com/2009/08/outrun-decompilation-project.html
>
> Or maybe someone way back in the day fixed it and it was considered a hacked rom for
> a while... I really don't remember for sure.

Haze says that Sega figured it out themselves in 2007.
http://reassembler.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/outrun-original-game-shipped-with.html
which links to
http://web.archive.org/web/20071217030416/http://outrun2sp.sega.jp/a_b/home.html

In theory, this patch should be in HBMAME, dunno if it is in practice.

- Stiletto



B2K24
MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
Reged: 10/25/10
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Re: M2 fixed Out Run's always broken music! new [Re: Stiletto]
#337629 - 03/11/15 11:08 PM


> In theory, this patch should be in HBMAME, dunno if it is in practice.
>
> - Stiletto

There's 5 Out Run sets in the latest released HBMAME

1 sitdown/upright, Rev. B edition
4 sets marked Enhanced Edition 1.0.0 - 1.0.3

I'm not sure if any of these have the specific music patch.

Maybe Robert will chime in and answer



Comboman
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Re: M2 fixed Out Run's always broken music! new [Re: B2K24]
#337633 - 03/12/15 02:25 AM


Outrun Enhanced Edition has the sound fix, among other things (at least version 2.0.1 has it). I don't know about HBMAME but MAMEFX supports that version.



Lord Nightmare
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Re: M2 fixed Out Run's always broken music! new [Re: Comboman]
#337645 - 03/12/15 05:09 AM


> Outrun Enhanced Edition has the sound fix, among other things (at least version 2.0.1
> has it). I don't know about HBMAME but MAMEFX supports that version.

The "Fixed" sample rom which is floating around is not actually fixed, someone replaced most of the 8 drum samples in the rom with new ones of similar type to the original samples. I have yet to see an actually corrected rom, but I worked on some programs to algorithmically attempt to fix it.

See https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79094972/outrunfix4.c which will take the original opr-10188.71 rom and attempts to heuristically fix the missing/stuck-high bit. It works well on the midkick, lowkick, woodblock and cowbell samples but screws up on the open hi-hat, clap, shaker and cymbal. It could be improved.

LN



"When life gives you zombies... *CHA-CHIK!* ...you make zombie-ade!"



mangamuscle
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Re: M2 fixed Out Run's always broken music! new [Re: Lord Nightmare]
#337667 - 03/12/15 09:52 PM


> > Outrun Enhanced Edition has the sound fix, among other things (at least version
> 2.0.1
> > has it). I don't know about HBMAME but MAMEFX supports that version.
>
> The "Fixed" sample rom which is floating around is not actually fixed, someone
> replaced most of the 8 drum samples in the rom with new ones of similar type to the
> original samples. I have yet to see an actually corrected rom, but I worked on some
> programs to algorithmically attempt to fix it.
>
> See https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79094972/outrunfix4.c which will take the
> original opr-10188.71 rom and attempts to heuristically fix the missing/stuck-high
> bit. It works well on the midkick, lowkick, woodblock and cowbell samples but screws
> up on the open hi-hat, clap, shaker and cymbal. It could be improved.

With all due respect, why replace the samples with new ones or fixing them algorithmically when the article says the name of the man in japan that has the original samples. Someone should either contact him or the people that did the research for the anniversary nintendo version since whatever machine they took the samples from still has the fixed rom.



Vas Crabb
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Re: M2 fixed Out Run's always broken music! new [Re: mangamuscle]
#337673 - 03/13/15 03:49 AM


> With all due respect, why replace the samples with new ones or fixing them
> algorithmically when the article says the name of the man in japan that has the
> original samples. Someone should either contact him or the people that did the
> research for the anniversary nintendo version since whatever machine they took the
> samples from still has the fixed rom.

The people with access to the correct sample data are all employed by or under contract to Sega, and Sega owns copyright on the data. Do you see the issue yet?



SmitdoggAdministrator
Reged: 09/18/03
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Re: M2 fixed Out Run's always broken music! new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#337674 - 03/13/15 04:48 AM


Pretty sure Shou can get it but I haven't asked.



mangamuscle
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Re: M2 fixed Out Run's always broken music! new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#337675 - 03/13/15 06:17 AM


> The people with access to the correct sample data are all employed by or under
> contract to Sega, and Sega owns copyright on the data. Do you see the issue yet?

Chances are he is already retired or working at another company (nowadays Sega isn't as big as twenty years ago, they are more like a skeleton like Atari) and we are talking about a game that has been emulated for so long that no Sega executive will bat an eye if a rom inside the zip for outrun changes crc/sha1 values.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: M2 fixed Out Run's always broken music! new [Re: mangamuscle]
#337682 - 03/13/15 02:13 PM


Nnnnno, the data we are talking about was made/used on a recent game and it wouldn't go in the official mame anyway if we had it, and Sega probably wouldn't notice or care if it did.



Foxhack
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Re: M2 fixed Out Run's always broken music! new [Re: Smitdogg]
#337698 - 03/14/15 05:18 AM


> Nnnnno, the data we are talking about was made/used on a recent game and it wouldn't
> go in the official mame anyway if we had it, and Sega probably wouldn't notice or
> care if it did.

I wonder if they'd be willing to release the data for people to burn as replacement roms for their own cabs.

Ideally, they would, but that's unlikely.



Dullaron
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Re: M2 fixed Out Run's always broken music! new [Re: VirtuaIceMan]
#337701 - 03/14/15 06:22 AM


> Another fascinating behind the scenes of the 3DS port of Out Run:
> http://blogs.sega.com/2015/03/09/sega-3d-classics-3d-out-run-part-3/

I saw the snapshots of the game screen. Look like a copy and paste snapshot from MAME.



W11 Home 64-bit + Nobara OS / AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT / AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core 3.59 GHz / RAM 64 GB



cmonkey
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Re: M2 fixed Out Run's always broken music! new [Re: Dullaron]
#337930 - 03/20/15 11:12 PM


I've extracted the fixed sound rom (opr-10188.71) from 3D Outrun. This picture shows a comparison of the first 1088 bytes of the original (broken) rom, the fixed rom from 3D Outrun and the bspatch'ed rom from OR Enhanced Edition.

Even though there are differences between the fixed rom and the OR Enhanced patched rom they are small and I think you'd have to have exceptionally good ears to tell the difference between the two.

Four of the PCM sample roms (opr-10193.66 / opr-10192.67 / opr-10191.68 and opr-10190.69) are bit-wise identical in 3D Outrun versus the rev. B OR romset. However the final 5 bytes of opr-10189.70 differ in 3D Outrun versus the same rom from the rev. B romset.



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