Quote: At the same time you’re also seeing a drive to clear up the licensing a little more. This, like the above, is just a step in the project maturing. As an arcade-only emulator it was easy to write MAME off as nothing but a toy; while it did have a number of other uses the majority of what it did (and what people ended up using it for) was run games. By bringing in the more serious side of the project we end up with a more professional piece of software with numerous irrefutable uses that extend well beyond any simple misconception of the project being nothing but a toy. With that more professional front to the project the need for a standard license also becomes greater, and I also feel more comfortable in re-licensing my code to be more permissive knowing that it is part of something that has many more legal uses. Obviously a number of the issues with older code that were raised before remain, but we’re in a better place right now than back then.
IMHO, I'm frankly glad there haven't been DevWars over the licensing; going by Git commits, the responses have been quite positive. Hell, I've seen a lot of dev names I haven't seen since the orange-text-in-the-DOS-UI days of MAME give their blessing in the commits, in one license or another.
Let's see what the future beholds...
Edited by The tECHIDNA (05/16/15 07:34 PM)
*******
The tECHIDNA
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Don't make me go Hyper on you.
> (BTW: the /. article is at > http://slashdot.org/story/15/05/16/133227/mame-changing-license-to-fully-libre-one) > > This comment on Slashdot by a MAMEdev (place your bets on who it is) explains things > pretty well, and it's what Haze was getting at in his most recent post: > > At the same time you’re also seeing a drive to clear up the licensing a little more. > This, like the above, is just a step in the project maturing. As an arcade-only > emulator it was easy to write MAME off as nothing but a toy; while it did have a > number of other uses the majority of what it did (and what people ended up using it > for) was run games. By bringing in the more serious side of the project we end up > with a more professional piece of software with numerous irrefutable uses that extend > well beyond any simple misconception of the project being nothing but a toy. With > that more professional front to the project the need for a standard license also > becomes greater, and I also feel more comfortable in re-licensing my code to be more > permissive knowing that it is part of something that has many more legal uses. > Obviously a number of the issues with older code that were raised before remain, but > we’re in a better place right now than back then. > > IMHO, I'm frankly glad there haven't been DevWars over the licensing; going by Git > commits, the responses have been quite positive. Hell, I've seen a lot of dev names I > haven't seen since the orange-text-in-the-DOS-UI days of MAME give their blessing in > the commits, in one license or another. > > Let's see what the future beholds...
Orange-text-in-the-DOS-UI days?
"Note to Noobs:
We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.
During the first 5-7 years of MAME, it had a much different UI than it currently does. Back then, it was mostly text-based, and has a characteristic reddish-orange (more red than anything, though) font that it used.
> > Orange-text-in-the-DOS-UI days? > > During the first 5-7 years of MAME, it had a much different UI than it currently > does. Back then, it was mostly text-based, and has a characteristic reddish-orange > (more red than anything, though) font that it used.
That kind of font needs to be next year's April Fool's joke.
"Note to Noobs:
We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.
> > Why am I reading about this first on Slashdot instead of here? > > Because it's really fucking interesting to Slashdot readers, and largely irrelevant > to MAME/MESS users.
Since I've got you here, I've got a question. Does that mean that it's now legal to make a commercial application using mame's source? If it is I'm not sure how I feel about the change. Mind you the think the arcade piracy scene in terms of commercial use is kind of dead, but it's the principal of the thing more than anything else.
To be fair, the non-commercial license was useless in the end because the MAME team didn't have financial resources to actually _enforce_ said license. As a result, commercial uses were out there and nothing could be done about them anyway.
I have much the same misgiving, but pragmatically it's probably better for everyone's sanity to go this route as it opens up better code sharing to/from MAME with minimal to no downsides that we didn't already have.
> If it is I'm not sure how I feel > about the change. Mind you the think the arcade piracy scene in terms of commercial > use is kind of dead, but it's the principal of the thing more than anything else.
The dirty secret of MAME licensing has always been that MAMEdev can't afford to sue anybody, so in reality the effective license was always BSD-3-Clause.
Other factors, in no particular order:
- MAME's license has prevented us from doing any commercial emulations, so we get to sit around and watch the likes of DotEmu stick end users (ourselves included) with crap. - MAME's license has been problematic for museums and libraries that charge admission but aren't actually for-profit. - In 2005, it was reasonable for MAMEdev to want additional protection from Sega/Konami/Capcom/Taito. In 2015, Smit is going to be holding a DU fundraiser to buy the shambling corpses of those companies as they become available.
> - MAME's license has prevented us from doing any commercial emulations, so we get to > sit around and watch the likes of DotEmu stick end users (ourselves included) with > crap.
... are you sure they stole MAME's source?
... because their so-called emulations are um, well. Utter shit.
> > If it is I'm not sure how I feel > > about the change. Mind you the think the arcade piracy scene in terms of commercial > > use is kind of dead, but it's the principal of the thing more than anything else. > > The dirty secret of MAME licensing has always been that MAMEdev can't afford to sue > anybody, so in reality the effective license was always BSD-3-Clause. > > Other factors, in no particular order: > > - MAME's license has prevented us from doing any commercial emulations, so we get to > sit around and watch the likes of DotEmu stick end users (ourselves included) with > crap. > - MAME's license has been problematic for museums and libraries that charge admission > but aren't actually for-profit. > - In 2005, it was reasonable for MAMEdev to want additional protection from > Sega/Konami/Capcom/Taito. In 2015, Smit is going to be holding a DU fundraiser to buy > the shambling corpses of those companies as they become available.
Well it's certainly true that they couldn't sue anybody BUT the fear of doing something illegal keeps 90% of the would-be bootleggers at bay. Now that this is gone, I'm not sure what the consequences are going to be.
That's the thing I'm concerned about right there, joking aside. With a free, ready-made emulator made available what is stopping someone from, say, buying the rights to all the konami games and essentially selling mame as the "Konami collection" Mind you that might not be a bad thing considering the current state of "official" releases by companies, I just wonder about legal ramifications.
The other thing I worry about is now that you can sell mame, people might not contribute source code to the main build and will make a custom build of mame and sell it.
> Well it's certainly true that they couldn't sue anybody BUT the fear of doing > something illegal keeps 90% of the would-be bootleggers at bay. Now that this is > gone, I'm not sure what the consequences are going to be.
No way, look at all the MAME-based X-in-1 systems, and the number of places they show up at.
> That's the thing I'm concerned about right there, joking aside. With a free, > ready-made emulator made available what is stopping someone from, say, buying the > rights to all the konami games and essentially selling mame as the "Konami > collection" Mind you that might not be a bad thing considering the current state of > "official" releases by companies, I just wonder about legal ramifications.
And what's wrong with that? Allowing commercial use means the rights holders can take advantage of MAME to keep the games available in a legitimate form. MAME isn't supposed to be the enemy of the arcade developers/publishers
> The other thing I worry about is now that you can sell mame, people might not > contribute source code to the main build and will make a custom build of mame and > sell it.
Well the bootleggers don't contribute back to MAME anyway (not that you'd want their contributions), so it's not like it makes a difference IRL. But with significant parts of the code under GPL2+ the whole MAME binary falls under GPL anyway, so if they want to play by the rules they need to distribute their modified source to anyone receiving a copy of the compiled binary.
> Well it's certainly true that they couldn't sue anybody BUT the fear of doing > something illegal keeps 90% of the would-be bootleggers at bay. Now that this is > gone, I'm not sure what the consequences are going to be.
it might have stopped some hobbyist bootlegger, but it hasn't had any effect on Chinese companies which systematically use emulation for their X-in-1 pcbs
> That's the thing I'm concerned about right there, joking aside. With a free, > ready-made emulator made available what is stopping someone from, say, buying the > rights to all the konami games and essentially selling mame as the "Konami > collection" Mind you that might not be a bad thing considering the current state of > "official" releases by companies, I just wonder about legal ramifications.
Konami did that on the PS2 in Japan, but they did it disc-per-game as a budget line where for like $10 or $15 you get the game, a soundtrack CD, and a DVD of someone demolishing it. I have the Haunted Castle one (of course) and it's obviously based on MAME.
Regarding bootleggers, have you not noticed the proliferation of "XXX-in-1" PCBs? The horse not only got out of the barn, it's been doing a nude victory lap in our faces. Emulating the 39-in-1 was my small way of taking a shot back at that scene.
>The other thing I worry about is now that you can sell mame, people might not contribute source code to the >main build and will make a custom build of mame and sell it.
You mean as opposed to now, when that already routinely happens?
MAME should be closed source and password protected... with only senior most MAME devs access to it. And with each new release, should charge users 5 cents per download.
I guess the bigger surprise was none of the big game companies suing the bootleg x-in-1 makers, but if they don't care about what those guys do they definitely don't care about what we do. If we just stay a few years back and it's all gravy. It seems. Except still no Marble Man. Yeah someone's going to get sued over releasing that... <---emujoke of the century
> > - MAME's license has prevented us from doing any commercial emulations, so we get > to > > sit around and watch the likes of DotEmu stick end users (ourselves included) with > > crap. > > ... are you sure they stole MAME's source?
I'm not saying they did or didn't, I'm saying that MAME's license makes them the only game in town for that stuff and they suck.
> The other thing I worry about is now that you can sell mame, people might not > contribute source code to the main build and will make a custom build of mame and > sell it.
Given that those XX-in-1 cards run on some pretty low spec hardware, I suspect they are based off some really old MAME source and I doubt there would be anything that could be usefully contributed anyway.
> What I really want to know is how this license change affects the nag screen rules. I > doubt they are enforceable under GPL.
We'll figure out some way to make them harder to remove. I'm really, really sick of people turning them off and then discovering they could've stood to know what the screens are telling them before looking like a buffoon on these boards or MT.
Derivative works are permitted under the MAME license. However, you are discouraged from providing specific functionality that goes against the philosophy of the MAME team. Specifically:
Do not add games which are more recent than 3 years old, or which are still being sold new by the company that produced them. MAME is not intended to be a platform that competes with arcade games that are still being actively sold.
Do not provide a means of generating a list of games that specifically identifies those games for which the user does not have image files. This only encourages users to seek out sources for illegal ROM, CD, and hard disk images in order to "complete" their collection.
Do not remove the startup screen that contains information about why certain non-working games don't work. This only serves to generate a bunch of useless email traffic to the developers asking why the games don't work.
Because the name MAME is trademarked, you must abide by the rules of the trademark usage if you wish to use "MAME" as part of the name your derivative work. In general, this means you must request permission, which requires that you follow the guidelines above.
The version number of any derivative work should reflect the version number of the MAME release it was derived from.
No license entanglements that I know of will change these wishes and continue to hope that people will respect the project and it's goal enough to comply.
> > What I really want to know is how this license change affects the nag screen rules. > I > > doubt they are enforceable under GPL. > > Go fuck yourself.
Hey, he makes nice artwork for users.
... you shoulda said "please"
But yeah, as Tafoid said, the license does not at all affect independent requests not to do such things like remove the "nag screens". But technically, it never has, not since the old Aaron-led license change back in... May 2005.
> > That's the thing I'm concerned about right there, joking aside. With a free, > > ready-made emulator made available what is stopping someone from, say, buying the > > rights to all the konami games and essentially selling mame as the "Konami > > collection" Mind you that might not be a bad thing considering the current state of > > "official" releases by companies, I just wonder about legal ramifications. > > Konami did that on the PS2 in Japan, but they did it disc-per-game as a budget line > where for like $10 or $15 you get the game, a soundtrack CD, and a DVD of someone > demolishing it. I have the Haunted Castle one (of course) and it's obviously based on > MAME. > > Regarding bootleggers, have you not noticed the proliferation of "XXX-in-1" PCBs? The > horse not only got out of the barn, it's been doing a nude victory lap in our faces. > Emulating the 39-in-1 was my small way of taking a shot back at that scene. > > > The other thing I worry about is now that you can sell mame, people might not > contribute source code to the > > main build and will make a custom build of mame and sell it. > > You mean as opposed to now, when that already routinely happens?
I'm well aware of the xx-in-1 boards...that come from China...where EVERYTHING is pirated. But it's still been a largely underground affair. Yup they show up in arcades... all 8 or 9 remaining arcades in the US. ;-) That wasn't what I was referring to. Expect to see plug-n-play mame machines at your local mall kiosk soon.
Only if they get licenses for the games, in which case maybe the companies will live a little longer. And it would still be the same thing as the cabs that are sold now. You have to live in a cave to not know about emulation by now. In fact there are probably some cave dwellers that know.
> We'll figure out some way to make them harder to remove. I'm really, really sick of > people turning them off and then discovering they could've stood to know what the > screens are telling them before looking like a buffoon on these boards or MT.
Non-working games are one thing, but do you really get that many people reporting that the colors in game X are not 100% accurate? If that screen wasn't there, would anyone who wasn't a dev even notice they weren't 100% accurate?
From what I've read in this thread, it seems that one motivation for changing the license was that bad people will break the rules anyway, so the restrictive license only hurts people that follow the rules. I was just wondering if that same sentiment could also apply to the notification screens.
> We'll figure out some way to make them harder to remove. I'm really, really sick of > people turning them off and then discovering they could've stood to know what the > screens are telling them before looking like a buffoon on these boards or MT.
The popular option might be to somehow move the startup screens so they can be looked at anytime in the internal UI perhaps under game information or something similar.
The funnier option would be to implement a coin lockout function making it impossible to play any games unless the startup screens have been OK'd
Quote: We'll figure out some way to make them harder to remove.
I'm not sure if that makes much sense because whatever you brainiacs conjure up, some derivative author will just find a way to remove/bypass the nag screen... and then all the other derivative authors will find out how to implement the change. I wouldn't waste time on finding a way to make it harder to remove... you're better off spending that time...
> From what I've read in this thread, it seems that one motivation for changing the > license was that bad people will break the rules anyway, so the restrictive license > only hurts people that follow the rules. I was just wondering if that same sentiment > could also apply to the notification screens.
and now you know the sentiment does not apply at all to the notification screen
> > Expect to see plug-n-play mame machines at your local mall kiosk soon. > > they have been the most common non-poker cabinets in Italy pubs/bars/arcades for the > past 15 years, so it's nothing new on this side of the ocean
And they're in bars and cafes in Australia. They're very widespread.
> > > Expect to see plug-n-play mame machines at your local mall kiosk soon. > > > > they have been the most common non-poker cabinets in Italy pubs/bars/arcades for > the > > past 15 years, so it's nothing new on this side of the ocean > > And they're in bars and cafes in Australia. They're very widespread.
Hell I can go to any flea market and buy old XBoxes with MAME installed. For like thirty dollars.
Changing the license won't really do a thing on the illegal side of things, but if it helps the right people use the program as it should be used... then why not?
Yes that screen does rule. Ask this satisfied customer, seen here at Round Table pizza parlor years earlier, of Pete's exceptional work. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Mistakes needing to be corrected:
- Frog -> Frogs
Asian hookers -> Minisuka Police ladies -
And maybe throw something in there regarding Tehkan World Cup Soccer somewhere within the nag screen and it will all be good.
> Non-working games are one thing, but do you really get that many people reporting > that the colors in game X are not 100% accurate? If that screen wasn't there, would > anyone who wasn't a dev even notice they weren't 100% accurate?
Yes. MT is littered with the corpses of reports on games that show "not working", "bad colors", "incomplete graphics", and so on.
> > Who's trying to call that shitty thing a PIZZA?? My God, you should do a little > trip > > to Italy.... > > Agreed. > Gregf, you need to go to Pizza Hut, now THESE GUYS know how to make proper pizze, > right Mamesick?
Sorry guys... but have you ever eaten one of this? PIZZA NAPOLETANA original. With the soft big border...
Though this kind of PIZZA is disappearing here in Italy, due to the fact that in big cities like Milan or Rome the vast majority of pizzerias are owned by egyptians and chineses. Globalization side effects
Pizza Hut is fine, at least the one I tried in my last visit to London.
> Sorry guys... but have you ever eaten one of this? PIZZA NAPOLETANA original. With > the soft big border... > > Though this kind of PIZZA is disappearing here in Italy, due to the fact that in big > cities like Milan or Rome the vast majority of pizzerias are owned by egyptians and > chineses. Globalization side effects > > Pizza Hut is fine, at least the one I tried in my last visit to London.
That's not a proper pizza: the base is less than half an inch thick, there are no cheesy bites, and no pineapple on top!
They're probably more detailed than the boring flag. Not that I support removing the nag screens or ever had a problem with wiggling the joystick. MT should make its own nag screen that has in huge text "if you use unofficial builds that remove nag screens fuck yourself and don't sign up".
> They're probably more detailed than the boring flag. Not that I support removing the > nag screens or ever had a problem with wiggling the joystick. MT should make its own > nag screen that has in huge text "if you use unofficial builds that remove nag > screens fuck yourself and don't sign up".
That -should- be in the registration page - a notice that the site is only meant for the official MAME distribution, and that you acknowledge this fact when you sign up.
And if the person ends up submitting a bug for a derivative, permaban.
I don't think it matters whether you eat at a Dominos it Australia or London... it's going to taste like cardboard. If it wasn't for customers' laziness and the munchies, they'd be out of business. The only time I ever order from them is when it's late at night and almost every eatery is closed except Dominos. The only eatery where I can have food delivered to my house at midnight.
> > Sorry guys... but have you ever eaten one of this? PIZZA NAPOLETANA original. With > > the soft big border... > > > > Though this kind of PIZZA is disappearing here in Italy, due to the fact that in > big > > cities like Milan or Rome the vast majority of pizzerias are owned by egyptians and > > chineses. Globalization side effects > > > > Pizza Hut is fine, at least the one I tried in my last visit to London. > > That's not a proper pizza: the base is less than half an inch thick, there are no > cheesy bites, and no pineapple on top!
I'm saying Pizza Hut is fine and acceptable when you're in a hurry and want something that can remember you a real pizza. A proper pizza is another thing.
Dominos has always been crap. I used to like Pizza Hut deep dish when you dine in and they get the crust completely crispy everywhere (pretty much have to pop it back in the oven if it's delivered) but I liked it in a way sort of like eating Taco Bell when you're drunk - does the job but I wouldn't call it real Mexican food.
Glad we're staying on topic. Let's keep this train wreck going. People need their pizza news! It's Friday! Now we just need someone to get drunk enough to walk through the Krystal drive-thru at 2 am and order 40 Cheese Krystals.
Quote: EDIT: Is there a way to embed a Youtube video?
Right click on the YouTube video and select Copy Embedded Code. Then just paste it in the forum here. Here's the video you linked to:
But you can't start the video at a specific time if you embed it. At least I don't think you can. If I'm wrong, someone please let me know how to do it.
> I don't think it matters whether you eat at a Dominos it Australia or London... it's > going to taste like cardboard. If it wasn't for customers' laziness and the munchies, > they'd be out of business. The only time I ever order from them is when it's late at > night and almost every eatery is closed except Dominos. The only eatery where I can > have food delivered to my house at midnight.
> Dominos has always been crap. I used to like Pizza Hut deep dish when you dine in and > they get the crust completely crispy everywhere (pretty much have to pop it back in > the oven if it's delivered) but I liked it in a way sort of like eating Taco Bell > when you're drunk - does the job but I wouldn't call it real Mexican food.
> > night and almost every eatery is closed except Dominos. The only eatery where I can > > have food delivered to my house at midnight. > > I'd rather starve.
I haven't eaten there in years. Once in a while I would order a pizza at night about an hour and a half before they close (for pickup) and they would give me crazy attitude so I just stopped bothering.
Hands down the worst pizza is Pizza Hut. Unless you like greasy dough that tastes like a fried sponge with grease dripping out of it.
> > Dominos has always been crap. I used to like Pizza Hut deep dish when you dine in > and > > they get the crust completely crispy everywhere (pretty much have to pop it back in > > the oven if it's delivered) but I liked it in a way sort of like eating Taco Bell > > when you're drunk - does the job but I wouldn't call it real Mexican food. > > > Mexicans actually like Taco Bell. True story.
Then explain why there are not Taco Bell restaurants in Mexico. It is not because they have not tried:
> > > Dominos has always been crap. I used to like Pizza Hut deep dish when you dine in > > and > > > they get the crust completely crispy everywhere (pretty much have to pop it back > in > > > the oven if it's delivered) but I liked it in a way sort of like eating Taco Bell > > > when you're drunk - does the job but I wouldn't call it real Mexican food. > > > > > > Mexicans actually like Taco Bell. True story. > > Then explain why there are not Taco Bell restaurants in Mexico. It is not because > they have not tried: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taco_Bell#Mexico
Because it's a hell of a lot cheaper to buy a - and I can't believe I'm saying this - much healthier taco for 15 pesos from a street vendor than it is to buy one for 25 from a restaurant like this.
> > > > Dominos has always been crap. I used to like Pizza Hut deep dish when you dine > in > > > and > > > > they get the crust completely crispy everywhere (pretty much have to pop it > back > > in > > > > the oven if it's delivered) but I liked it in a way sort of like eating Taco > Bell > > > > when you're drunk - does the job but I wouldn't call it real Mexican food. > > > > > > > > > Mexicans actually like Taco Bell. True story. > > > > Then explain why there are not Taco Bell restaurants in Mexico. It is not because > > they have not tried: > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taco_Bell#Mexico > > Because it's a hell of a lot cheaper to buy a - and I can't believe I'm saying this - > much healthier taco for 15 pesos from a street vendor than it is to buy one for 25 > from a restaurant like this.
Believe it or not, here in Mexico we have carl's jr, burger king, mc donalds, wendy's AND no name hamburger street vendors. We also have restaurants that serve tacos, not only street vendors or 7 elevens. There is no place left for imitations.
I could be wrong, but it seems there are no pizza hut's, dominos or Little Caesars in Italy either.
> > > > > Dominos has always been crap. I used to like Pizza Hut deep dish when you > dine > > in > > > > and > > > > > they get the crust completely crispy everywhere (pretty much have to pop it > > back > > > in > > > > > the oven if it's delivered) but I liked it in a way sort of like eating Taco > > Bell > > > > > when you're drunk - does the job but I wouldn't call it real Mexican food. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mexicans actually like Taco Bell. True story. > > > > > > Then explain why there are not Taco Bell restaurants in Mexico. It is not because > > > they have not tried: > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taco_Bell#Mexico > > > > Because it's a hell of a lot cheaper to buy a - and I can't believe I'm saying this > - > > much healthier taco for 15 pesos from a street vendor than it is to buy one for 25 > > from a restaurant like this. > > Believe it or not, here in Mexico we have carl's jr, burger king, mc donalds, wendy's > AND no name hamburger street vendors. We also have restaurants that serve tacos, not > only street vendors or 7 elevens. There is no place left for imitations. > > I could be wrong, but it seems there are no pizza hut's, dominos or Little Caesars in > Italy either.
Los tacos de la esquina son mas nutritivos que los que venden en Taco Bell. Mas que nada porque no estan hechos de pura grasa, zacate, y queso de grasa vegetal.
:P
(Don't ban me smitty I swear we're not insulting anyone's mum.)
> > > > > > Dominos has always been crap. I used to like Pizza Hut deep dish when you > > dine > > > in > > > > > and > > > > > > they get the crust completely crispy everywhere (pretty much have to pop it > > > back > > > > in > > > > > > the oven if it's delivered) but I liked it in a way sort of like eating > Taco > > > Bell > > > > > > when you're drunk - does the job but I wouldn't call it real Mexican food. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mexicans actually like Taco Bell. True story. > > > > > > > > Then explain why there are not Taco Bell restaurants in Mexico. It is not > because > > > > they have not tried: > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taco_Bell#Mexico > > > > > > Because it's a hell of a lot cheaper to buy a - and I can't believe I'm saying > this > > - > > > much healthier taco for 15 pesos from a street vendor than it is to buy one for > 25 > > > from a restaurant like this. > > > > Believe it or not, here in Mexico we have carl's jr, burger king, mc donalds, > wendy's > > AND no name hamburger street vendors. We also have restaurants that serve tacos, > not > > only street vendors or 7 elevens. There is no place left for imitations. > > > > I could be wrong, but it seems there are no pizza hut's, dominos or Little Caesars > in > > Italy either. > > Los tacos de la esquina son mas nutritivos que los que venden en Taco Bell. Mas que > nada porque no estan hechos de pura grasa, zacate, y queso de grasa vegetal. > > :P > > (Don't ban me smitty I swear we're not insulting anyone's mum.)
If you run it by google translate it seems to say that it is healthier to chew on a concrete building block than to eat at taco bell
> If you run it by google translate it seems to say that it is healthier to chew on a > concrete building block than to eat at taco bell
There was an authentic Mexican food place in a nearby town several years back. It was a place you went up to and ordered (not a full-fledged, walk-in restaurant). Their tacos.... Eh, the corn tortillas were the soft kind (like what you might use in enchiladas), but fried in oil... This made them very, very tough. The stuff inside was alright. But it wasn't anything like what you'd get at Taco-Bell.
So, they either did a piss-poor job of preparing them, or authentic Mexican food really sucks.
> > > > > Dominos has always been crap. I used to like Pizza Hut deep dish when you > dine > > in > > > > and > > > > > they get the crust completely crispy everywhere (pretty much have to pop it > > back > > > in > > > > > the oven if it's delivered) but I liked it in a way sort of like eating Taco > > Bell > > > > > when you're drunk - does the job but I wouldn't call it real Mexican food. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mexicans actually like Taco Bell. True story. > > > > > > Then explain why there are not Taco Bell restaurants in Mexico. It is not because > > > they have not tried: > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taco_Bell#Mexico > > > > Because it's a hell of a lot cheaper to buy a - and I can't believe I'm saying this > - > > much healthier taco for 15 pesos from a street vendor than it is to buy one for 25 > > from a restaurant like this. > > Believe it or not, here in Mexico we have carl's jr, burger king, mc donalds, wendy's > AND no name hamburger street vendors. We also have restaurants that serve tacos, not > only street vendors or 7 elevens. There is no place left for imitations. > > I could be wrong, but it seems there are no pizza hut's, dominos or Little Caesars in > Italy either.
I prefer Papa Murphy's and Papa John's Pizzas. They make some of the best pizzas around.
> > If you run it by google translate it seems to say that it is healthier to chew on a > > concrete building block than to eat at taco bell > > > There was an authentic Mexican food place in a nearby town several years back. It was > a place you went up to and ordered (not a full-fledged, walk-in restaurant). Their > tacos.... Eh, the corn tortillas were the soft kind (like what you might use in > enchiladas), but fried in oil... This made them very, very tough. The stuff inside > was alright. But it wasn't anything like what you'd get at Taco-Bell. > > So, they either did a piss-poor job of preparing them, or authentic Mexican food > really sucks.
Those are not tacos, those are flautas (literally "flute", make some holes in it and you might play a tune >_< ) and are usually dipped on guacamole salsa. I am not too fond of them since they are hard and they have little meat, but my mom and sister like them (but are not fond of sushi), so YMMV.
> > > If you run it by google translate it seems to say that it is healthier to chew on > a > > > concrete building block than to eat at taco bell > > > > > > There was an authentic Mexican food place in a nearby town several years back. It > was > > a place you went up to and ordered (not a full-fledged, walk-in restaurant). Their > > tacos.... Eh, the corn tortillas were the soft kind (like what you might use in > > enchiladas), but fried in oil... This made them very, very tough. The stuff inside > > was alright. But it wasn't anything like what you'd get at Taco-Bell. > > > > So, they either did a piss-poor job of preparing them, or authentic Mexican food > > really sucks. > > Those are not tacos, those are flautas (literally "flute", make some holes in it and > you might play a tune >_< ) and are usually dipped on guacamole salsa. I am not > too fond of them since they are hard and they have little meat, but my mom and sister > like them (but are not fond of sushi), so YMMV.
No. They weren't wrapped like (what I'd call a) Taquito(sp?). The thing they served at this place was like the embeded pic below.
I guess the shells were fried... Maybe 'soaked in grease' would be a more appropriate term. Whatever they did to 'em (like I said) they were very, very tough to bite into and pull apart.
> > > > If you run it by google translate it seems to say that it is healthier to chew > on > > a > > > > concrete building block than to eat at taco bell > > > > > > > > > There was an authentic Mexican food place in a nearby town several years back. It > > was > > > a place you went up to and ordered (not a full-fledged, walk-in restaurant). > Their > > > tacos.... Eh, the corn tortillas were the soft kind (like what you might use in > > > enchiladas), but fried in oil... This made them very, very tough. The stuff > inside > > > was alright. But it wasn't anything like what you'd get at Taco-Bell. > > > > > > So, they either did a piss-poor job of preparing them, or authentic Mexican food > > > really sucks. > > > > Those are not tacos, those are flautas (literally "flute", make some holes in it > and > > you might play a tune >_< ) and are usually dipped on guacamole salsa. I am not > > too fond of them since they are hard and they have little meat, but my mom and > sister > > like them (but are not fond of sushi), so YMMV. > > > No. They weren't wrapped like (what I'd call a) Taquito(sp?). The thing they served > at this place was like the embeded pic below. > > > I guess the shells were fried... Maybe 'soaked in grease' would be a more appropriate > term. Whatever they did to 'em (like I said) they were very, very tough to bite into > and pull apart.
What you describe is a variety of the flauta, the "taco dorado" (fried taco), the tortilla is open like in the photo you attached:
> > What you describe is a variety of the flauta, the "taco dorado" (fried taco), the > > tortilla is open like in the photo you attached: > > > > So, are they typically as tough as shoe leather?
It depends on the type of tortilla used and how deep fried you want it.
> > Pizza Hut is fine, at least the one I tried in my last visit to London. > > Pizza Hut and Dominos in Australia are both terrible.
And expensive at around $12 or so for the standard pizzas (not the el-cheapo ones with next to no topping on them, but not the "gourmet" ones either or stuffed crust etc). Dominos also like to charge $2.50 just to put extra sauce (e.g. BBQ) on it; you can buy a 1 litre bottle of name-brand sauce at a supermarket for way less than that.
Pizza Hut use 11" bases for their "large" pizzas; I think Dominos use 9" or 10", can't remember since I rarely ever go to them. In most generic/family stores, a large pizza has a 12" base (at least one pizza shop I went to used 13" instead).
Pizza Hut are also a ripoff for deliveries - $8, but the minimum spend must be $20. Conveniently, their lower-end "deals" are usually around $19 or so, forcing you to buy a can of drink or similar "cheap" item to go over the delivery threshold.
I don't believe in 90-odd cent psychological pricing BS, so all prices here are rounded to the nearest dollar as they should be.
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