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Master O
Yes, Even Parodius Music
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2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
#360822 - 12/02/16 02:43 AM


Might as well get this started:

1) Seibu Cup Soccer
2) Tobe! Polystars
3) Tatakae! Big Fighter's MCU
4) Redumping of Qsound.bin (unless this was done already, so someone please clarify that).
5) Eventually see the decapping of MCUs in general get back on track for any other arcade games whose MCUs can be decapped to get the games themselves fully emulated.
6) Mamedevs coming to a consensus on further Laserdisc dumps.


And before anyone chimes in, yes, I know that the decapping of MCUs is stalled. I assume that won't change for awhile, if ever.

And yes, I know that mamedevs are split on how to dump the remaining Laserdisc games. I assume there won't be any movement on that, either.

Edited by Master O (12/02/16 05:12 AM)



"Note to Noobs:

We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.

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anikom15
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#360824 - 12/02/16 02:48 AM


PlayStation getting promoted from NOT WORKING. That would be good for PR I guess.



Sune
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Decap: The Marketing new [Re: Master O]
#360825 - 12/02/16 02:56 AM


> 5) Eventually see the Decapping Project get back on track for any other arcade games
> whose MCUs can be decapped to get the games themselves fully emulated.

"The Decapping Project" and "Dr. Decapitator" or whatever are just names somebody came up with. They're gone but that doesn't mean that there's nobody doing the thing.

http://www.seanriddle.com/decap.html

S



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: Decap: The Marketing new [Re: Sune]
#360826 - 12/02/16 03:08 AM


Well actually Dr. Decapitator was a real person who stole our real chips and real money and you are talking out of your real ass. But still happy to see you are ok, where you been?



Sune
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Re: Decap: The Marketing new [Re: Smitdogg]
#360827 - 12/02/16 03:24 AM


> Well actually Dr. Decapitator was a real person who stole our real chips and real
> money and you are talking out of your real ass.

I know but it's just ahhhh "de-capping".. it became one of those emulation buzzwords and then suddenly people are superheroes and then they do what you said.

> But still happy to see you are ok, where you been?

Thanks you. In a shitstorm, basically. Highlights: I got divorced, broke my left elbow in a motorcycle accident, I left my laptop out in the rain, then switched it on immediately instead of waiting for it to dry out "oooh it's a Thinkpad, NASA uses those on the ISS". Dead.

I came back to talk out of my real ass, but what do you do when you like mameworld a lot but can't stand Traso?

S



Master O
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Re: Decap: The Marketing new [Re: Sune]
#360831 - 12/02/16 04:56 AM


> > 5) Eventually see the Decapping Project get back on track for any other arcade
> games
> > whose MCUs can be decapped to get the games themselves fully emulated.
>
> "The Decapping Project" and "Dr. Decapitator" or whatever are just names somebody
> came up with. They're gone but that doesn't mean that there's nobody doing the thing.
>
> http://www.seanriddle.com/decap.html
>
> S

Ok, I worded that poorly. What I meant was the decapping of MCUs in general.

I was under the impression Sean Riddle wasn't able to work on ones like the Toaplan chips and that he only looked at simpler hardware.



"Note to Noobs:

We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.

C.D.~"



lharms
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: anikom15]
#360832 - 12/02/16 05:37 AM


That could be fun.

Better faster PC emulation could be interesting too.

I personally only want a good proper flicker for 'bankshot'. It is impossible to play without knowing which ball is the cue ball.



Roman
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#360833 - 12/02/16 10:15 AM


Raflsiau - ah ok ...couldn't resist (newbies don't get this)

and yes, it may sound lame...I still like to see some of the holy grails....Bouncer, MarbleMan...and actually Beavis & Butthead....even if the gameplay sucks..I'd like to see them saved for the future.



gregf
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tomato time new [Re: Roman]
#360837 - 12/02/16 12:08 PM



>Raflsiau - ah ok ...couldn't resist

I figured someone would roll that rom name out once again for an 'unfunny' bit. :-)
Hope that old entry can be put to rest one of these days with a pcb being found and roms dumped and uploaded.


>I still like to see some of the holy grails....Bouncer, MarbleMan...and actually Beavis &
>Butthead....even if the gameplay sucks..I'd like to see them saved for the future.

Did good this year with Wing Force by Atlus

Konami Kyuukoukabakugekitai (Dive Bomber Squad) and Ocean to Ocean (Medal) (DECO Cassette MD) (No.10/Ver.1,Japan) being found this year by various contributors.


And the previous year, imo it was Arcadia's Aaargh being supported.

Good to know these won't be joining list of holy grails category. I am hoping to see a few more found next year such as Arcadia's arcade version of Rockford.



R.Coltrane
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Re: tomato time new [Re: gregf]
#360838 - 12/02/16 12:58 PM


Well, here we go again...

One thing I asked for last year really happened: improvements over Heated Barrel!! Thanks to all involved into that one!!

Other things that I wanted and still want in MAME:

- Karate Champ bootleg version with alternate dialog baloons:http://rcoltrane.50webs.com/kc3.jpg
- 1977 Taito Bazooka discrete emulation
- Decap/reverse engineering/emulation of Tokio MCU
- Even more improvements over Heated Barrel, to make it perfect
- The infamous Atari Danger Express prototype
- Inclusion of G&W Game & Watch games

AND an official release for Android devices!!

...and it's pretty much it.



drewcifer
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#360839 - 12/02/16 01:05 PM


> 4) Redumping of Qsound.bin (unless this was done already, so someone please clarify that).

QSound.bin was decapped, imaged, and typed up by the typing monkeys. There were, however, some regions that were un-knowable due to crud on the die. Thus the BAD_DUMP status.

There was a bit of analysis a month or two ago, and it was found that the code in the dump was almost identical in two places. This realization gave us more confidence in the dump, but it's still not 100%.

In an ideal world, another decap would happen to a QSound chip that has no obscured bits, so the monkeys can work their magic again and the dump can be confirmed 100% good. This is a bit trickier than it used to be since recent advancements in CPS2 knowledge have made nearly *all* CPS2 boards useful - dead boards need no longer be dead - and thus their prices have gone up.

Maybe someone will step up and mail a QSound chip to someone who is good at decapping soon. Maybe not. Time will tell.

/Andrew



DarthMarino
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#360842 - 12/02/16 02:19 PM


I hope to see Cruis'n Exotica upgraded to working status. There have been developments lately that give me hope. The Grid would be a nice bonus as well.



View my gameplay videos:
Light Gun Games with Aimtrak
Trackball Games with X-Arcade Trackball
Star Wars Episode 1 Racer with Dual Throttle Controls



Envisaged0ne
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#360844 - 12/02/16 03:59 PM


I'd like to see MK4 & the SFIII games fully emulated correctly. Oh, and getting the speed emulated correctly in the SF2 games

Edited by Envisaged0ne (12/02/16 04:00 PM)



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Sthiryu
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#360845 - 12/02/16 04:21 PM


I would like to see some improvements in the mess side (8 and 16 bit consoles and computers like amstrad, amiga, spectrum, megadrive/genesis, supernes...).

At the mess side there is still a lot of work to do, hope this year should be great!!

And like someone requested, the G&W from nintendo ,those are great games..



RETRO DANUART YOUTUBE



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Re: Decap: The Marketing new [Re: Master O]
#360846 - 12/02/16 04:38 PM



Quote:



Ok, I worded that poorly. What I meant was the decapping of MCUs in general.

I was under the impression Sean Riddle wasn't able to work on ones like the Toaplan chips and that he only looked at simpler hardware.





Maybe a unprotected version or a bootleg might turn up for Tatakae! Big Fighter ya never know whats out there.




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Shoegazr
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#360848 - 12/02/16 05:12 PM


1) Support for cross-platform rumble/ff effects for systems like the PSX and OutRun, vs. basic output handler support that currently exists

2) Model 2 improvements

3) Votrax/SC-01 emulation

4) QSound decap/emulation

5) TG16 (Air Zonk) and PCE-CD improvements per discussions here

6) N64 speed optimizations

7) More accurate NES PPU emulation

8.) PSX SPU sound chip improvements

9) More accurate Cave CV1000B timing

10) Revamped Vectrex artwork

11) Cleanup of Rygar bezel from Mr. Do! and artwork team

Most of these aren't entirely practical but hey..



Mr Ric
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Shoegazr]
#360849 - 12/02/16 05:17 PM


I'd like to see work resume on the Atari computer and console stuff...

Atari 800 and related
Atari 2600
Atari 5200
Atari 7800
Atari Jaguar



R. Belmont
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: DarthMarino]
#360851 - 12/02/16 05:48 PM


> I hope to see Cruis'n Exotica upgraded to working status. There have been
> developments lately that give me hope. The Grid would be a nice bonus as well.

Both of those are fairly likely. Phil's currently working on a trojan for an MK4 board which will allow extracting all the Zeus/Zeus2 secrets.



CTOJAH
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#360856 - 12/02/16 09:09 PM


1. Dumps of :
- Marble Man
- Gunlord (Neo Geo)
- Rockford (if exist at all ?!)
- Final Gate
- Dice Dice Dice
- Darius (Game Legend version)
- Hangzo (What happened ?)
- Ken Ju
- Chase 1929
- Force Five

2. Go to working state :
- Gals Panic II
- TH Strikes Back
- Photo Y2K 2
- Gamshara

3. To get some love PGM2 driver.



Trebor
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#360859 - 12/02/16 09:44 PM


1) Light gun support for the Atari 7800 and 2600 drivers; in conjunction, 'slotification' of Atari 7800 controller input to allow mapping of Atari 2600 peripherals (I.E. Paddles).

2) AtariVox(+) support.

3) Improve Atari 5200 / Atari 8-bit computer video emulation.

4) Support for MegaCart ROMs under the ColecoVision driver and Super Game Module support.

5) Improve support for Atari consoles' color palette behavior (Select hue spacing of ~24.0-28.0 degrees apart).

6) Correct NES sound from distorting (http://mametesters.org/view.php?id=5775).

7) Improve TIA emulation (I.E. Restore missing enemies in DKJR, ship landing sound effects in E.T.)



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#360860 - 12/02/16 10:00 PM


Dodonpachi Campaign Version
Mushihimesama Version 1.5 Blue Label (a festival version)
Muchi Muchi Pork Festival Version with Pink Sweets bosses
Mushihimesama Futari Red Label (a festival version with Ketsui scoring)
Marble Man
every laser disc game including 5 tons of bad porn
Street Fighter II and III with perfect emulation
Japan to stop hoarding
Peter Wilhelmsen and friends to keep the magic going
Neogeo prototype flood
Accurate Cave CV1000 emulation
Cruisn Exotica perfect emulation
decap every chip



CTOJAH
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Pure Winner !!! new [Re: Smitdogg]
#360861 - 12/02/16 10:10 PM


> Japan to stop hoarding



RdW
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Votrax SC-01A new [Re: Master O]
#360864 - 12/03/16 12:03 AM


I hope for Votrax SC-01A Speech Synthesizer emulation (LN?)



anikom15
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Envisaged0ne]
#360866 - 12/03/16 12:32 AM


Isn't there some hacks that make the speed correct already? or at least pretty close.



ArtLine
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#360868 - 12/03/16 12:49 AM


My wish is simple: networking on Namco games and CPS2. Basically we got Sega networking done, so figured out we can do networking for other arcade systems.



The wheel of fate is turning, so does the wheel of cheese, as Uncle Sensei asked.



Vas Crabb
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Re: Decap: The Marketing new [Re: Sune]
#360872 - 12/03/16 01:56 AM


> Thanks you. In a shitstorm, basically. Highlights: I got divorced, broke my left
> elbow in a motorcycle accident, I left my laptop out in the rain, then switched it on
> immediately instead of waiting for it to dry out "oooh it's a Thinkpad, NASA uses
> those on the ISS". Dead.

If you want to pour water on a notebook and then use it immediately you need a Panasonic ToughBook, nothing else is ruggedised like them.

You got divorced? But you being married was one of the constants of this place! You left everything you knew and moved to Brazil for that! It was so much a part of your existence, and the lore of this place! What are you going to do now? Staying in Brazil, or another change of scenery?

> I came back to talk out of my real ass, but what do you do when you like mameworld a
> lot but can't stand Traso?

Tell me about it, you're definitely not alone there.



PooshhMao
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#360875 - 12/03/16 02:31 AM


My wishlist, in no particular order:

- Sega Model 2.
- Improved Amiga emulation, with matching softlist
- Same for the C64



Envisaged0ne
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: anikom15]
#360877 - 12/03/16 03:58 AM


I think mameuifx has some hacks, but I don't use it. I just use regular MAME



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Nightvoice
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#360879 - 12/03/16 11:56 AM


1. Multi-player multi-screen for Suzuka 8 Hours, Cruis'n USA/Cruis'n World.

2. Artwork support for multi-state gear shifters for numerous games that lack it (e.g. Night Driver, Speed Freak, Cruis'n World) and won't stay in gear.

3. The ability to load multiple games in PlayChoice 10.



jonwil
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#360893 - 12/04/16 10:27 AM


My wishlist (and yes I know most of these are unlikely to happen anytime soon):
1.Dumping (and decapping where necessary) of all missing chips in Suzuka 8 Hours and Suzuka 8 Hours 2 (including the MCU that handles I/O)
2.Fixing all known bugs in Suzuka 8 Hours and Suzuka 8 Hours 2 (including the broken music)
3.Emulation of the old Miracle Piano Teaching System hardware (with support for using an actual MIDI keyboard as an input device)
4.Decapping and dumping the Fujitsu TGP DSP chips on the Star Wars Arcade board and proper emulation of those chips and the rest of the hardware.
5.Any fixing necessary so that the CPS1 Street Fighter 2 games are emulated arcade-perfect (along with dumping any missing official Capcom rom sets)
6.Complete emulation of the Nintendo Super System (and dumping of any missing or bad ROMs)
7.Emulation of some mobile phones (not just the early "brick" phones with crude LED displays or tiny B&W LCDs but newer phones from when they started getting digital audio playback and color LCDs and things)
8.Fixing any known bugs in Time Crisis on Namco Super System 22.



MooglyGuy
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: jonwil]
#360896 - 12/04/16 01:00 PM


> 3.Emulation of the old Miracle Piano Teaching System hardware (with support for using
> an actual MIDI keyboard as an input device)

Already done. You can do "mame snes miraclep" and attach it to a MIDI device on your system.



casm
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Re: Decap: The Marketing new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#360906 - 12/04/16 06:59 PM


> > what do you do when you like mameworld a lot but can't stand Traso?
>
> Tell me about it, you're definitely not alone there.

People like him are what happens when someone badly needs a damn good kicking but never receives it.



anikom15
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Re: Decap: The Marketing new [Re: casm]
#360914 - 12/05/16 01:37 AM


> > > what do you do when you like mameworld a lot but can't stand Traso?
> >
> > Tell me about it, you're definitely not alone there.
>
> People like him are what happens when someone badly needs a damn good kicking but
> never receives it.

At least he's not the worst.



redk9258Moderator
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Re: Decap: The Marketing new [Re: anikom15]
#360922 - 12/05/16 06:32 AM


> At least he's not the worst.

Who is?



R. Belmont
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#360933 - 12/05/16 07:24 PM


> > 3.Emulation of the old Miracle Piano Teaching System hardware (with support for
> using
> > an actual MIDI keyboard as an input device)
>
> Already done. You can do "mame snes miraclep" and attach it to a MIDI device on your
> system.

Works for the NES and Genesis versions too, IIRC.



R. Belmont
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Re: Votrax SC-01A new [Re: RdW]
#360934 - 12/05/16 07:25 PM


> I hope for Votrax SC-01A Speech Synthesizer emulation (LN?)

Me too!



RdW
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Re: Votrax SC-01A new [Re: R. Belmont]
#360939 - 12/05/16 09:14 PM


> > I hope for Votrax SC-01A Speech Synthesizer emulation (LN?)
>
> Me too!

I guess the DEC PDP-11 files of the Votrax CDS1 (SC-01 emulator) are lost forever?

Funny reading btw:
http://chiclassiccomp.org/docs/content/books/TeachingYourComputerToTalk_EdwardTeja.pdf



Sune
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Re: Decap: The Marketing new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#360940 - 12/05/16 09:18 PM


> What are you going to do now? Staying in
> Brazil, or another change of scenery?

I don't know yet, I took a beating this year and I'm still reeling. Honestly, what I'd really like to happen is for a bag of money to fall from the sky, put everything on hold and go into therapy. But I have next to no safety net here so for now I just have to work and survive. My documents expire this year and I still need to find out whether I can stay here legally. I don't want to go back to Denmark, I think I'd do worse there than here.

S



Traso
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Oh come on, baby..... new [Re: Sune]
#360961 - 12/06/16 12:56 AM


I'm so fond of you. I'm not kidding.


Ya all take the regular things in the world so seriously. If you just told the world to fuck itself, you'd have an easier time. It would be harder if you didn't also give up those things that make it harder, but that's evident, right?



Sune
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Re: Oh come on, baby..... new [Re: Traso]
#360979 - 12/06/16 04:51 AM


> I'm so fond of you. I'm not kidding.

Thank you. Most of the stuff you post make my skin crawl.

> Ya all take the regular things in the world so seriously. If you just told the world
> to fuck itself, you'd have an easier time.

That sounds like a very lonely way to live. No thanks.

> It would be harder if you didn't also give
> up those things that make it harder, but that's evident, right?

Of course, I'll just snap my fingers and it all goes away. Thank you for that invaluable piece of advice.

S



Ville Linde
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#360994 - 12/06/16 06:08 PM


I'm probably alone with this, but I'd like to see all the Finnish gambling machines dumped and emulated.



Haze
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Ville Linde]
#361000 - 12/06/16 07:16 PM


> I'm probably alone with this, but I'd like to see all the Finnish gambling machines
> dumped and emulated.

Regional material like that is always interesting to see, but the problem is often getting hold of it.

I was happy to see that Swedish Subsino title added a few builds back for similar reasons, it's tells a story about where these things ended up, and how they were localized.



anikom15
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Re: Decap: The Marketing new [Re: redk9258]
#361021 - 12/06/16 11:16 PM


> > At least he's not the worst.
>
> Who is?

anikom15



invincibility
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PGM2 is my only want!!! new [Re: Master O]
#361108 - 12/09/16 11:11 AM


PGM2 is my only want!!!

When we can get it.



Haze
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Re: PGM2 is my only want!!! new [Re: invincibility]
#361109 - 12/09/16 11:25 AM


> PGM2 is my only want!!!
>
> When we can get it.

Not soon.

(and yes, I know there's some spammer posting 'PGM2 emulation videos' about to get hits, they're actually just direct captures from the PCBs.)



invincibility
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Re: PGM2 is my only want!!! new [Re: Haze]
#361114 - 12/09/16 12:18 PM


But it's real...

PGM2 hardware surely is getting emulated in China now use a special version of mame.

They ask •1000 RMB sponsor to get the emulated game and mame, Though.

If you pay •1000 RMB you can get 3 games to play: kov2nl, kov3, orleg2.

And the version of mame emulator is heavily encrypted and bind with your pc hardware.



Robbbert
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Re: PGM2 is my only want!!! new [Re: invincibility]
#361115 - 12/09/16 12:20 PM



> And the version of mame emulator is heavily encrypted and bind with your pc hardware.

ew



Haze
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Re: PGM2 is my only want!!! new [Re: invincibility]
#361116 - 12/09/16 12:25 PM


> But it's real...
>
> PGM2 hardware surely is getting emulated in China now use a special version of mame.
>
> They ask •1000 RMB sponsor to get the emulated game and mame, Though.
>
> If you pay •1000 RMB you can get 3 games to play: kov2nl, kov3, orleg2.
>
> And the version of mame emulator is heavily encrypted and bind with your pc hardware.

I don't think it's MAME, it's some commercial offering from what I was told, maybe not even an emulator.

while it's possibly an emulator MAME doesn't even emulate the CPU type needed, and would almost certainly require a dynamic recompiler for full speed, such things are typically beyond those hacking up MAME.

would be less surprising if it was a hacked up Nintendo DS emulator.



BIOS-D
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#361117 - 12/09/16 12:30 PM


I've seen MAME emulating everything available, but somehow those dance machines are left to oblivion. Techno Motion and the very first Andamiro hardware will be extinct sooner or later. I also still have hope for Konami Bemani System 573 Digital sound to work someday.

Now if I were to wish for not impossible wishes, that would be a skeleton N-Gage driver and the coming for more submissions to the project from new faces. I think emulation while commercially successful is becoming a lost art among new generations.

EDIT: And how could I forget about the first generation XBOX? I still have mine, but I hope for more improvements that bring it running, it doesn't matter if it's at 2 FPS.



R. Belmont
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Ville Linde]
#361123 - 12/09/16 06:34 PM


> I'm probably alone with this, but I'd like to see all the Finnish gambling machines
> dumped and emulated.

Works for me. If you can get dumps to happen getting them running probably isn't awful.



zambr
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#361135 - 12/10/16 12:41 AM


Same as last year, native Android support for tablet use

Finally seeing MESS code running on this platform would be truly awesome.

Edited by zambr (12/10/16 12:45 AM)



Traso
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Re: Oh come on, baby..... new [Re: Sune]
#361142 - 12/10/16 03:14 AM


> Thank you. Most of the stuff you post make my skin crawl.


Gotta keep life interesting. Besides, the CUSTOM VAN. Who could turn that away??


> That sounds like a very lonely way to live. No thanks.


You pick your poison. Or do ya?


> Of course, I'll just snap my fingers and it all goes away. Thank you for that invaluable piece of advice.
>
> S


You know, sometimes it is that simple. At least to begin. I was at a doctor's appointment a couple/few months ago, and he and I got into talking about my lifestyle, and how I can live on less than ten grand a year (at least in this city, but in metro, not on the outskirts or in ghetto land). He was blown away. Seemed real obvious to me, but it wasn't to him. I haven't talked with him since then to see whether he pursued things....



Traso
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More like BOO-GUS. (NT) new [Re: Robbbert]
#361143 - 12/10/16 03:17 AM


> > And the version of mame emulator is heavily encrypted and bind with your pc
> hardware.
>
> ew



Sune
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Re: Oh come on, baby..... new [Re: Traso]
#361165 - 12/10/16 11:37 PM


> > Thank you. Most of the stuff you post make my skin crawl.
>
>
> Gotta keep life interesting. Besides, the CUSTOM VAN. Who could turn that away??

It's not a van.. it's the Honda City from City Connection.

> You pick your poison. Or do ya?

It's still poison.

S



Traso
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Re: Oh come on, baby..... new [Re: Sune]
#361237 - 12/14/16 06:39 AM


> > Besides, the CUSTOM VAN. Who could turn that away??

> It's not a van.. it's the Honda City from City Connection.


Oh. So it is. I've always thought it looked like those tricks vehicles dudes drew in the 70s. Funny that that bit was coming to mind earlier today. I was feelin ya.


> > You pick your poison. Or do ya?

> It's still poison.
>
> S


Yeah, that's what ahm say-in.



R. Belmont
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: zambr]
#361254 - 12/14/16 06:18 PM


> Same as last year, native Android support for tablet use

Technically that came true this year - you can build the project as-shipped and get a valid .APK, although I think you need a USB controller to control it.



R.Coltrane
MAME user since 0.11
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: R. Belmont]
#361255 - 12/14/16 08:47 PM


> > Same as last year, native Android support for tablet use
>
> Technically that came true this year - you can build the project as-shipped and get a
> valid .APK, although I think you need a USB controller to control it.

I've got the latest MAME core for RetroArch (0.174) and it works perfectly with the GPD XD physical controls. All you have to do is set the gamepad mapper app to use Playstation 3 mode and you are fine.



zambr
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: R. Belmont]
#361263 - 12/15/16 03:06 AM


> > Same as last year, native Android support for tablet use
>
> Technically that came true this year - you can build the project as-shipped and get a
> valid .APK, although I think you need a USB controller to control it.

Dullaron kindly built a .apk file for me to test on my Nexus 9 tablet. If I recall, Galaxian was less than 10fps.

I guess it would perform better on a tablet that has desktop class OpenGL driver support being V4.5 (e.g Nvidia Shield K1 tablet, Nvidia Shield TV & PIxel C).and not OpenGL ES 3.1.

Shame, as Nexus 9 has very similar h/w.

Edited by zambr (12/15/16 03:13 AM)



Bigster
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Smitdogg]
#361266 - 12/15/16 05:05 AM


> Dodonpachi Campaign Version
> Mushihimesama Version 1.5 Blue Label (a festival version)
> Muchi Muchi Pork Festival Version with Pink Sweets bosses
> Mushihimesama Futari Red Label (a festival version with Ketsui scoring)
> Marble Man
> every laser disc game including 5 tons of bad porn
> Street Fighter II and III with perfect emulation
> Japan to stop hoarding
> Peter Wilhelmsen and friends to keep the magic going
> Neogeo prototype flood
> Accurate Cave CV1000 emulation
> Cruisn Exotica perfect emulation
> decap every chip

Glad you left off Bouncer. With Bouncer, this list is impossible. Without bouncer, the list is pretty obtainable.



Heihachi_73
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Re: Oh come on, baby..... new [Re: Traso]
#361268 - 12/15/16 06:58 AM


> > > Besides, the CUSTOM VAN. Who could turn that away??
>
> > It's not a van.. it's the Honda City from City Connection.
>
>
> Oh. So it is. I've always thought it looked like those tricks vehicles dudes drew in
> the 70s. Funny that that bit was coming to mind earlier today. I was feelin ya.
>
>
> > > You pick your poison. Or do ya?
>
> > It's still poison.
> >
> > S
>
>
> Yeah, that's what ahm say-in.

I'd much rather the thought of a van over that thing farting past my front door. The moron with the cannoned WRX hatch at 6AM every morning is bad enough.



R. Belmont
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: zambr]
#361277 - 12/15/16 06:46 PM


> I guess it would perform better on a tablet that has desktop class OpenGL driver
> support being V4.5 (e.g Nvidia Shield K1 tablet, Nvidia Shield TV & PIxel C).and not
> OpenGL ES 3.1.

As with desktops, CPU is the limiting factor. A15s aren't that hot, and Android's still 18-24 months behind Apple on instructions-per-clock because Qualcomm.



grog
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the shot firing sound in pleiads :-( new [Re: Master O]
#361285 - 12/16/16 03:17 AM


http://mametesters.org/view.php?id=5528



Traso
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Re: Oh come on, baby..... new [Re: Heihachi_73]
#361312 - 12/17/16 01:34 AM


> I'd much rather the thought of a van over that thing farting past my front door. The moron with the cannoned WRX hatch at 6AM every morning is bad enough.



That's the poor side of 'guy with little penis'.



Gyrovision
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#361362 - 12/18/16 07:45 AM


stactics discrete sound even though will never happen would be an amazing feat of labor intensity...
https://youtu.be/vxq00qQNxdA

and of course...
https://youtu.be/GTMow2Sn67A

hope all is well, safe journey!



lharms
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: lharms]
#361456 - 12/20/16 01:50 AM


Oh did think of one other thing. That alt version of choplifter. That way I am not crazy



Nate
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Re: PGM2 is my only want!!! new [Re: Haze]
#361480 - 12/20/16 08:52 AM


It is mame though very hacked it's based on .148u3 and use bin files for the card reader Mame guys PM if you need it though it not to hard to find right now it comes with the roms so yea



Dullaron
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Re: PGM2 is my only want!!! new [Re: Nate]
#361481 - 12/20/16 10:22 AM


> It is mame though very hacked it's based on .148u3 and use bin files for the card
> reader Mame guys PM if you need it though it not to hard to find right now it comes
> with the roms so yea

Good luck with that. They will not add it. Must be dump correctly. Unless you are the dumper with the right tools. You have to send the chips info, pictures and some other info with the dump.

I wouldn't even trust it.



Haze
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Re: PGM2 is my only want!!! new [Re: Nate]
#361507 - 12/20/16 11:23 PM


> It is mame though very hacked it's based on .148u3 and use bin files for the card
> reader Mame guys PM if you need it though it not to hard to find right now it comes
> with the roms so yea

I've seen it..

it's ugly, that's for sure.

it almost certainly HLEs all the internal ROM calls (it expects to load an internal ROM file, but actually seems to ignore the content as you can substitute anything on the games that run and they still run) the weird bugs that exist (bad coinage, controlling characters in attract mode etc. further suggest some kind of HLE approach)

there's no source, and all the bullshit they're wrapped in make it a blatant license violation, and i'd question how safe it is to actually run, it seems intrusive at least.

they've hacked up MAME something ugly, debugger functions are completely missing (cheats still work tho, which can be used to similar effect for certain things)

they don't even run the CPU at the proper speed (although I guess the games don't care, but maybe that's because half the code isn't running due to the internal ROM HLE)

I'm not even sure it would be useful if there WAS source, as I doubt it's of the required standard to be included, but without source it's completely and utterly useless garbage, and won't help with real progress on PGM2.

It's also another case where we give (documenting how the decryption works etc.) and then others feel they have the right to walk all over that and not give themselves in return, just try to profit from MAME. Disgusting bullshit, makes me 100% disinterested in working on the driver at all.



gamez fan
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Re: PGM2 is my only want!!! new [Re: Haze]
#361508 - 12/20/16 11:45 PM



Quote:



It's also another case where we give (documenting how the decryption works etc.) and then others feel they have the right to walk all over that and not give themselves in return, just try to profit from MAME. Disgusting bullshit, makes me 100% disinterested in working on the driver at all.





Sure i agree with what your saying. but although i dont give a toss for PGM2 myself there are people out there who obviously do and as such will turn to some immoral hacked build of MAME in order to get their fix.

IMHO The only way to stop shit like this from happening is to just kill it dead really by actually progressing PGM2 emulation in MAME to the point that some lame ass MAME hack would no longer be required.



Haze
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Re: PGM2 is my only want!!! new [Re: gamez fan]
#361509 - 12/21/16 12:12 AM


> It's also another case where we give (documenting how the decryption works etc.) and
> then others feel they have the right to walk all over that and not give themselves in
> return, just try to profit from MAME. Disgusting bullshit, makes me 100%
> disinterested in working on the driver at all.
>
>
> Sure i agree with what your saying. but although i dont give a toss for PGM2 myself
> there are people out there who obviously do and as such will turn to some immoral
> hacked build of MAME in order to get their fix.
>
> IMHO The only way to stop shit like this from happening is to just kill it dead
> really by actually progressing PGM2 emulation in MAME to the point that some lame ass
> MAME hack would no longer be required.

there's still a million miles between this cheap hack and what would even be *considered* for inclusion in MAME.

you might as well be comparing UltraHLE to current N64 emulators and suggesting it's somehow useful.

the real work still needs doing, nobody has done it, there is no clear plan for doing it.



Nate
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Re: PGM2 is my only want!!! new [Re: Haze]
#361510 - 12/21/16 12:18 AM


Ok did not know if any thing here was of use good luck you guys



Master O
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#361565 - 12/22/16 04:55 AM


> Might as well get this started:
>
> 1) Seibu Cup Soccer
> 2) Tobe! Polystars
> 3) Tatakae! Big Fighter's MCU
> 4) Redumping of Qsound.bin (unless this was done already, so someone please clarify
> that).
> 5) Eventually see the decapping of MCUs in general get back on track for any other
> arcade games whose MCUs can be decapped to get the games themselves fully emulated.
> 6) Mamedevs coming to a consensus on further Laserdisc dumps.
>
>
> And before anyone chimes in, yes, I know that the decapping of MCUs is stalled. I
> assume that won't change for awhile, if ever.
>
> And yes, I know that mamedevs are split on how to dump the remaining Laserdisc games.
> I assume there won't be any movement on that, either.

Question for mamedevs:

In light of recent developments, is Tatakae Big Fighter also going to have its MCU dumped, too? That game will not boot without its MCU.



MooglyGuy
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#361575 - 12/22/16 11:07 AM


> In light of recent developments, is Tatakae Big Fighter also going to have its MCU
> dumped, too? That game will not boot without its MCU.

It's on the inventory of Dr. Decapitator chips that have been successfully obtained by Caps0ff. Beyond that, all we know is that Caps0ff has agreed to try to process as many of the chips from the Dr. Decapitator batch as possible, starting with the easiest ones first. Beyond that, it's entirely up to him in what order and at what cadence he actually provides decap dumps, so nobody can really say if it's "going to" have its MCU dumped or not.



Toe-Knee
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#361597 - 12/22/16 09:45 PM


> 1) Seibu Cup Soccer

This! I'm praying for someone to get this solved



Haze
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Toe-Knee]
#361598 - 12/22/16 09:52 PM


> > 1) Seibu Cup Soccer
>
> This! I'm praying for someone to get this solved

still one of the trickier ones, I honestly don't expect even a decap to reveal much useful, it's some complex fixed-function type setup, with programmable function combinations.

based on previous guesses, it's probably not even an MCU, so while the results of decapping the various chips in that case might look pretty I don't actually think they'll bring us any closer to properly emulating it.

instead it will probably still require extensive tests on the board to work out all the functions.

i'd love to be proved wrong tho.



Master O
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Haze]
#361607 - 12/23/16 12:34 AM


> > > 1) Seibu Cup Soccer
> >
> > This! I'm praying for someone to get this solved
>
> still one of the trickier ones, I honestly don't expect even a decap to reveal much
> useful, it's some complex fixed-function type setup, with programmable function
> combinations.
>
> based on previous guesses, it's probably not even an MCU, so while the results of
> decapping the various chips in that case might look pretty I don't actually think
> they'll bring us any closer to properly emulating it.
>
> instead it will probably still require extensive tests on the board to work out all
> the functions.
>
> i'd love to be proved wrong tho.

Why did Seibu decide to protect this game so heavily? You'd think the game they'd do this for would be Raiden II, instead.



gamez fan
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#361615 - 12/23/16 01:52 AM



Quote:



Why did Seibu decide to protect this game so heavily? You'd think the game they'd do this for would be Raiden II, instead.





I think after alotta their previous games were ripped off by the bootleggers for the first game on the new platform they just protected the shit outta of it using as much of the protection devices as they could.

Not that it worked in the end as there are some bootlegs of Seibu Cup Soccer that made it out.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#361617 - 12/23/16 01:56 AM


Raiden II was protected so well that they fucked themselves over. When it came time to sell an emulation of it (the dotemu release) they couldn't include the Raiden II family because mamedevs hadn't even cracked them yet, decades later.



Master O
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Smitdogg]
#361624 - 12/23/16 04:18 AM


> Raiden II was protected so well that they fucked themselves over. When it came time
> to sell an emulation of it (the dotemu release) they couldn't include the Raiden II
> family because mamedevs hadn't even cracked them yet, decades later.

Interestingly enough, on that caps0ff site, there are several Raiden II chips that have yet to be decapped. What do those chips do, then?

QFP Raiden 2 SEI360
QFP Raiden 2 SEI1000
QFP Raiden 2 SEI252
QFP Raiden 2 SIE150
QFP Raiden 2 SEI0200



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#361626 - 12/23/16 04:31 AM


You would need to ask Angelo about it. Some could bring us information vitally needed like with Rainbow Islands, when if you fake the MCU data you change the gameplay. The opposite is 1943 with a bootup check and that's it so you can just bypass it and the emulation is basically accurate.



abelenki
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Smitdogg]
#361630 - 12/23/16 06:08 AM


> Some could bring us information vitally needed
> like with Rainbow Islands, when if you fake the MCU data you change the gameplay.

as far as i remember, it was Bubble Bobble.



AJR Hacker
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#361632 - 12/23/16 07:28 AM



Quote:



Interestingly enough, on that caps0ff site, there are several Raiden II chips that have yet to be decapped. What do those chips do, then?





I believe most Seibu custom chips are gate arrays, not MCUs. The only ones known to have internal ROMs are the T5182 sound CPU found on their later 8-bit games and the undumped graphics SIPs on Air Raid/Cross Shooter (and presumably also Yukai Tsukai).

> QFP Raiden 2 SEI360

This is presumably part of the later edition of Seibu's 16-bit tilemap hardware (though Zero Team curiously lacks any equivalent chip). Earlier Seibu games use SEI0210 and SEI0211.

> QFP Raiden 2 SEI1000

This is the second version of the notorious COP DMA/math chip. Most 68K Seibu hardware games have SEI300 instead, but no meaningful differences are known.

> QFP Raiden 2 SEI252

Encrypted sprite chip for Raiden II and the first few SPI games. Preceded by SEI251 on Zero Team; succeeded by RISE10 and RISE11, the latter of which remained in use until Seibu stopped making arcade games.

> QFP Raiden 2 SIE150

QFP successor to the SEI0100BU sound interface.

> QFP Raiden 2 SEI0200

Also video-related; this probably provides the "CRTC" functionality which the MAME device of that name only partially emulates.

Edited by AJR Hacker (12/23/16 07:33 AM)



AJR Hacker
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: gamez fan]
#361636 - 12/23/16 07:58 AM



Quote:


I think after alotta their previous games were ripped off by the bootleggers for the first game on the new platform they just protected the shit outta of it using as much of the protection devices as they could.

Not that it worked in the end as there are some bootlegs of Seibu Cup Soccer that made it out.





It's my opinion that the lack of encrypted program code in later versions of Raiden might well have been due to Seibu becoming aware that bootleggers were clearing that sort of hurdle; as mustangb and tdragonb demonstrate, bootleggers even appropriated the Raiden sound code for unrelated games after decrypting it themselves.

However, Seibu finally seems to have stymied the bootleggers by encrypting the sprites on most of their games from 1993 onward. There are sets of Raiden II/DX and the Raiden Fighters games which replace the original OPL2 or OPX synth sound with ADPCM-sampled loops, but they happen to be official rereleases even if they sound like bootlegs.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: abelenki]
#361643 - 12/23/16 02:39 PM


Both games were like that according to my memory. We may still not have Rainbow Islands' MCU dumped so it could still be using faked code for things like enemy movements.



kevenz
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#361691 - 12/24/16 04:14 AM


I was curious and gave it a try and it works (if you can call it like that)



but honestly I don't care much about these chinese beat em ups.... I'd rather play Streets of rage 2 instead.



Olivier Galibert
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Re: Votrax SC-01A new [Re: R. Belmont]
#361705 - 12/24/16 01:13 PM


> > I hope for Votrax SC-01A Speech Synthesizer emulation (LN?)
>
> Me too!

Joyeux NoŽl Richter.

OG.



CTOJAH
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: kevenz]
#361709 - 12/24/16 04:04 PM


> I was curious and gave it a try and it works (if you can call it like that)
>
>
> but honestly I don't care much about these chinese beat em ups.... I'd rather play
> Streets of rage 2 instead.

You are playing Oriental Legend 2 in MAME or I am missing something ?



MooglyGuy
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: CTOJAH]
#361710 - 12/24/16 05:39 PM


> > I was curious and gave it a try and it works (if you can call it like that)
> >
> >
> > but honestly I don't care much about these chinese beat em ups.... I'd rather play
> > Streets of rage 2 instead.
>
> You are playing Oriental Legend 2 in MAME or I am missing something ?

You're missing something.



Haze
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#361711 - 12/24/16 05:56 PM


> > > I was curious and gave it a try and it works (if you can call it like that)
> > >
> > >
> > > but honestly I don't care much about these chinese beat em ups.... I'd rather
> play
> > > Streets of rage 2 instead.
> >
> > You are playing Oriental Legend 2 in MAME or I am missing something ?
>
> You're missing something.

yeah, he's missed the chance to potentially get his PC infected by whatever crap is wrapped around those hacked up binaries.

they're not pretty, I would not trust them, DO NOT RUN THEM OUTSIDE OF A VIRTUALIZED ENVIRONMENT.



gregf
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Re: Votrax SC-01A new [Re: Olivier Galibert]
#361730 - 12/25/16 12:38 AM



>>I hope for Votrax SC-01A Speech Synthesizer emulation (LN?)
>Me too!

>Joyeux NoŽl Richter.

OG.


Bravo. Definitely outstanding to see this happen and thanks for working on emulating this longstanding hardware device. This and the unexpected SSi S14001A speech chip contribution/emulation from earlier this year from one of the designers of the SSi S14001A speech chip makes this year a great year regarding speech emulation achievements.


A post showing an audio capture comparison of old audio effects versus new audio effects to show comparison would definitely make users take notice, but this Votrax work is appreciated.



R. Belmont
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Re: Votrax SC-01A new [Re: Olivier Galibert]
#361808 - 12/26/16 07:49 PM


> Joyeux NoŽl Richter.
>
> OG.






XtraSmiley
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Re: Votrax SC-01A new [Re: R. Belmont]
#361813 - 12/26/16 09:49 PM


Now that Space Lords works, I'm only hoping to hit 100 posts on MAME World before the end of the year! Thanks for the hard work this year guys!



MooglyGuy
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Re: Votrax SC-01A new [Re: XtraSmiley]
#361815 - 12/26/16 10:01 PM


> Now that Space Lords works, I'm only hoping to hit 100 posts on MAME World before the
> end of the year! Thanks for the hard work this year guys!

Looks like you succeeded!



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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#361984 - 12/30/16 12:16 PM




>Might as well get this started:


*crossing fingers that some resolution will happen of what format/method of capturing data from laserdiscs or even console discs for that matter sometime next year*.

-
1) Mamedevs coming to a consensus on further Laserdisc dumps.

And yes, I know that mamedevs are split on how to dump the remaining Laserdisc games. I assume there won't be any movement on that, either.
-


Late to this thread, but my own wish list.

1. Any netlist updates will be great whether analog audio, emulating some computer systems, and any non-cpu arcade video games. Great to see that there is now support for handling reading rom or prom ttl chips. The initial prom ttl support being done is a big thing imo.

2. more handheld games support....mainly Mattel Electronics (Football, Baseball, etc.) from late 1970s era. The Conic Football is a nice start, but it is not Mattel Electronics Football. The audio difference between Conic's version versus Mattel Electronics is almost an audio comparison quality between arcade games Midway Clowns versus Exidy Circus. Folks can tell the audio difference and Conic Football is equivalent of Midway Clowns audio.....plain poor quality.

3. more PEPlus titles being saved is a good thing.

4. And hopefully some remaining hard-to-find 1970s era or 1980s era arcade games surface and get supported especially any remaining DECO cassette titles.



Olivier Galibert
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: gregf]
#361985 - 12/30/16 12:25 PM


> 1) Mamedevs coming to a consensus on further Laserdisc dumps.
>
> And yes, I know that mamedevs are split on how to dump the remaining Laserdisc games.
> I assume there won't be any movement on that, either.

There isn't really a split on the subject. What there is is more a lack of competence/time/access. Someone with both hardware and skills need to champion that, and with Aaron gone we've lost the only one we had.

OG.



kevenz
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Master O]
#362147 - 01/02/17 01:56 PM


it would be great to have for 2017:

-Primal Rage 2
-Gamshara
-Vertexer
-Ghox sound
-Akai Katana
-Thunder Hoop 2



Keatah
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: kevenz]
#362184 - 01/03/17 04:45 AM


I'd love to see Earth Friend Mission and the Atari C-380 Video Pinball stand-alone console get some love.



Heihachi_73
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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: gregf]
#362195 - 01/03/17 11:55 PM


> 3. more PEPlus titles being saved is a good thing.

Just a random question, is it just MAME or do the PE Plus games really take that long to insert coins on real hardware? It's painfully slow trying to insert up to 20 coins per hand.



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Re: 2016 Is Almost Over: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess? new [Re: Olivier Galibert]
#362241 - 01/04/17 10:52 PM



>There isn't really a split on the subject. What there is is more a lack of competence/time
>/access. Someone with both hardware and skills need to champion that, and with Aaron gone
>we've lost the only one we had.

Thanks for explanation.


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