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jonwil
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Best Nintendo 64 emulator?
#365679 - 05/04/17 12:19 PM


Can anyone tell me which emulator is the best (as in most accurate while still remaining playable on a Core i5-6500 CPU) one to use for Nintendo 64 these days?

I am specifically interested in Mario 64 and possibly GoldenEye...



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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: jonwil]
#365681 - 05/04/17 12:40 PM


http://www.pj64-emu.com/



CiroConsentino
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: jonwil]
#365688 - 05/04/17 01:52 PM


Project64, no question.



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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: jonwil]
#365689 - 05/04/17 04:59 PM


> Can anyone tell me which emulator is the best (as in most accurate while still
> remaining playable on a Core i5-6500 CPU) one to use for Nintendo 64 these days?
>
> I am specifically interested in Mario 64 and possibly GoldenEye...

Any of them will do you fine for those two games. Nobody releases an N64 emulator that doesn't run those two.



MooglyGuy
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: R. Belmont]
#365692 - 05/04/17 05:40 PM


> > Can anyone tell me which emulator is the best (as in most accurate while still
> > remaining playable on a Core i5-6500 CPU) one to use for Nintendo 64 these days?
> >
> > I am specifically interested in Mario 64 and possibly GoldenEye...
>
> Any of them will do you fine for those two games. Nobody releases an N64 emulator
> that doesn't run those two.

Except N64 emulators require the selection of video plugins.



Envisaged0ne
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#365693 - 05/04/17 06:10 PM


Off topic: If you want an amazing updated look to Mario 64, play it through Dolphin with the HD texture pack. It looks amazing.

On topic: Yes, I think Project64 is the best, but as mentioned, you do have to setup different plugins & configure them



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Heihachi_73
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Envisaged0ne]
#365733 - 05/05/17 08:39 AM


> Off topic: If you want an amazing updated look to Mario 64, play it through Dolphin
> with the HD texture pack. It looks amazing.
>
> On topic: Yes, I think Project64 is the best, but as mentioned, you do have to setup
> different plugins & configure them

Whenever I have to run a N64 emulator like PJ64/1964 I feel like I'm going back to 2002.



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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Heihachi_73]
#365779 - 05/06/17 04:18 AM


That's the way I like it.
Project64 renders in OpenGL and Direct3D. That's why external graphics plugins are awesome.
MAME doesn't do that.



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I curse you again PS Emu Pro!!! new [Re: CiroConsentino]
#365820 - 05/07/17 06:38 AM


> That's the way I like it.
> Project64 renders in OpenGL and Direct3D. That's why external graphics plugins are
> awesome.
> MAME doesn't do that.

Everything went just fine until someone decided you need 30 different plug-ins for different games nor hardware. Are we still in the DOS era? DirectX and OpenGL came slow but fixed that nicely. PJ64, nullDC and ePSXe were a disaster because of that. Not mentioning the compatibility list and testing. It was the laziest method to develop an emulator.

I'm all for developing emulators using old methods (just look at NO$xxx emulators). But plug-in based? no thank you. I don't need that nightmare again hunting for the exact plug-in build version to run only one game.



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Re: I curse you again PS Emu Pro!!! new [Re: BIOS-D]
#365830 - 05/07/17 05:01 PM


> > That's the way I like it.
> > Project64 renders in OpenGL and Direct3D. That's why external graphics plugins are
> > awesome.
> > MAME doesn't do that.
>
> Everything went just fine until someone decided you need 30 different plug-ins for
> different games nor hardware. Are we still in the DOS era? DirectX and OpenGL came
> slow but fixed that nicely. PJ64, nullDC and ePSXe were a disaster because of that.
> Not mentioning the compatibility list and testing. It was the laziest method to
> develop an emulator.
>
> I'm all for developing emulators using old methods (just look at NO$xxx emulators).
> But plug-in based? no thank you. I don't need that nightmare again hunting for the
> exact plug-in build version to run only one game.

I couldn't agree more.



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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: CiroConsentino]
#365838 - 05/08/17 12:38 AM


> That's the way I like it.
> Project64 renders in OpenGL and Direct3D. That's why external graphics plugins are
> awesome.
> MAME doesn't do that.

MAME has rendered games in OpenGL and Direct3D for well over a decade, it just doesn't upscale 3D polygons the way the "enhancing" emulators do, as it's against the scope of running the games as originally intended. Someone actually added the PSEmu plugin system to a custom MAME build several years ago (but the plugins only worked with PlayStation-based arcade games as you would expect e.g. Capcom ZN, Namco System 11/12 etc.) but it violated the MAME license and therefore wasn't supported.

The problem with most plugin-based emulators is that they tend to only work with one type of hardware e.g. N64 or PSX, they are not compatible with one another (e.g. PSEmu plugins cannot be used in Project64 and vice versa) and most of them are closed source which is against both the old and current (open source) MAME license if they were to be bundled with MAME. Additionally, they are usually not cross-platform either, with most of them being Windows-only or even 32-bit only (or even x86-only, for example in the 2000s in the days of PowerPC Macs, never mind modern ARM devices).



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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Heihachi_73]
#365841 - 05/08/17 02:36 AM


>> MAME has rendered games in OpenGL and Direct3D for well over a decade, it just doesn't
>> upscale 3D polygons the way the "enhancing" emulators do

It does ? I thought MAME only draws low res/pixelated graphics in D3D/OpenGL mode mode and it was used purely for BGFX/HLSL/GLSL effects.

Street Fighter EX 2 Plus rendering in ZiNc looks great (see Ryu's head band in game's intro) and MAME looks so pixelated and low res ?
OK, arcade hardware and MAME wants authenticity.

I always liked the way other emus render game polygons and stuff using D3D/OpenGL engine (ZiNc, Demul, Supermodel3, SEGA Model 2).
Last time I heard, MAME does it purely by software using your computer's CPU and not the graphics card... unless I'm missing something.

I wonder how MAME will render all those D3D based arcade machines and Voodoo2 / Voodoo3 (GLIDE) based games. By software ?
And yes, I've spoken of this in the past, got flamed and was "rudely" told to shut the f.. up about it or I would be banned from the emulation scene.



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Envisaged0ne
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: CiroConsentino]
#365842 - 05/08/17 05:07 AM


I have to agree. I think the way MAME renders 3D polygons is pretty ugly & I prefer what some of the other emulators do with them. But I don't want to cause a flame war.



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John Doe
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Envisaged0ne]
#365850 - 05/08/17 11:16 PM


> I have to agree. I think the way MAME renders 3D polygons is pretty ugly

Do you think the original games are ugly too?



Envisaged0ne
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: John Doe]
#365851 - 05/08/17 11:22 PM


Nope



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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Envisaged0ne]
#365858 - 05/09/17 08:46 AM


> Nope

So if the original games aren't ugly but mame is ugly, then what is the difference?



Envisaged0ne
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: John Doe]
#365860 - 05/09/17 10:11 AM


Didja read what CiroConsentino said? I was agreeing with him. Maybe his post can answer your question



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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Envisaged0ne]
#365862 - 05/09/17 12:42 PM


> Didja read what CiroConsentino said? I was agreeing with him. Maybe his post can
> answer your question

Ciro is saying the original games look ugly...

Even if MAME renders in hardware they will look just the same, because MAME aims for an accurate reproduction of the graphics, the same as the original.



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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Haze]
#365877 - 05/09/17 03:28 PM


> > Didja read what CiroConsentino said? I was agreeing with him. Maybe his post can
> > answer your question
>
> Ciro is saying the original games look ugly...
>
> Even if MAME renders in hardware they will look just the same, because MAME aims for
> an accurate reproduction of the graphics, the same as the original.

Exactly. We've all been through this many times before and it's unfortunate people still don't get it, especially on this forum where we should know better: promoting features that extend beyond those originals is not only missing the main point of preservation by a country mile, but it's doing real damage to our understanding of how those games were originally played. Years of ugly "aspect-stretched" or "HD textures" YouTube videos has introduced new generations to a false reality. Like what would happen if new generations had no idea Casablanca was actually a black-and-white movie. It's pretty sad.



Ziggy100
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Envisaged0ne]
#365878 - 05/09/17 03:29 PM


> I have to agree. I think the way MAME renders 3D polygons is pretty ugly

It's not the games that are ugly, It's the display technology you are using (PC Monitor) to play them on.


Quote:


Off topic: If you want an amazing updated look to Mario 64, play it through Dolphin, with the HD texture pack. It looks amazing.




Glad someone mentioned that, it's how I play it, and whilst the purists will hate it, I love it...



Edited by Ziggy100 (05/09/17 03:45 PM)



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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Shoegazr]
#365880 - 05/09/17 03:48 PM


> > > Didja read what CiroConsentino said? I was agreeing with him. Maybe his post can
> > > answer your question
> >
> > Ciro is saying the original games look ugly...
> >
> > Even if MAME renders in hardware they will look just the same, because MAME aims
> for
> > an accurate reproduction of the graphics, the same as the original.
>
> Exactly. We've all been through this many times before and it's unfortunate people
> still don't get it, especially on this forum where we should know better: promoting
> features that extend beyond those originals is not only missing the main point of
> preservation by a country mile, but it's doing real damage to our understanding of
> how those games were originally played. Years of ugly "aspect-stretched" or "HD
> textures" YouTube videos has introduced new generations to a false reality. Like what
> would happen if new generations had no idea Casablanca was actually a black-and-white
> movie. It's pretty sad.

It's actually worse, there are threads all over reddit where people say they'll only play *perfect* emulators, and by perfect, they mean with widescreen hacks, upscaled rendering, new textures, no slowdown etc. so the complete opposite of perfect.

They then go on to call emulators *broken* if for some games you have to turn all that off and use the 100% accurate software renderer in order to not have fucked up graphics.

Which is fucking moronic, because in many cases a lot of the advanced tricks used on the systems simply aren't going to work with all that crap turned on unless you start reprogramming the game.

It means anybody trying to emulate the PSX, PS2, N64, XBOX, GameCube etc. generations have to meet the expectations of absolute fucking idiots if they're not going to have their emulator called 'broken'

At this point in time people doing newer generations than that don't really have the problem because most stuff was designed to run at 'HD' resolutions, widescreen etc. anyway, although I guess in 5-10 years the same morons will be demanding those all run at 4k with new texture packs etc. instead.

These people aren't actually interested in emulation, they're interested in ports using an emulation backend. Ports are done on a per-game basis, where details like this are added as part of the development process. There's a big difference.



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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Shoegazr]
#365881 - 05/09/17 05:43 PM


I'm not new generation. I'm from 1974. I love older games much more than new gen games.
I'm just saying other emulators render using the GPU and the result looks good without resorting to HLSL/GLSL/BGFX. And they do not rely just on your CPU power (which is what MAME is all about, I think...).

afaik, MAME renders everything in CPU. GPU is used for HLSL/GLSL/BGFX. Or am I wrong ?
Either way, sorry for starting this flame war. I apologize...



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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Haze]
#365882 - 05/09/17 05:48 PM


well, I'm not one of those.
I like older games. When playing MAME I never enable HLSL/GLSL/BGFX because, and I have A GTX 970 4GB video card. I prefer the old bilinear stretching.

I wonder how MAME will handle newer games that actually use Direct3D. Will MAME render the graphics purely in CPU ? Also for older games that use GLIDE API (Voodoo2/Voodoo3 video cards).



Shoegazr
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Haze]
#365884 - 05/09/17 07:08 PM


> It's actually worse, there are threads all over reddit where people say they'll only
> play *perfect* emulators, and by perfect, they mean with widescreen hacks, upscaled
> rendering, new textures, no slowdown etc. so the complete opposite of perfect.

I've seen that crap too and I'm equally frustrated by it. It's terrible, but at least understandable because those people don't know any better - just kids who've never had any knowledge or exposure beyond the XB360 they got handed down from older brother or whatever. OTOH, this place is filled with mostly older generation folks that have been wandering the hallowed halls of MW for long enough to know better.

> They then go on to call emulators *broken* if for some games you have to turn all
> that off and use the 100% accurate software renderer in order to not have fucked up
> graphics.

I've seen many cases where devs are forced to spend cycles catering to this miserable state of affairs by coding up ways to ADD this crap into their project at the insistence of such users, without whom they would have no real test pool.

> Which is fucking moronic, because in many cases a lot of the advanced tricks used on
> the systems simply aren't going to work with all that crap turned on unless you start
> reprogramming the game.

Hah, yup. Also the fact that the original game devs and artists didn't develop their games to run on such high definitions, so the games actually look far worse anyway because they override the artists' original intentions to "hide" imperfections in lower-definition rendering. But the users don't care because LQQK HI DEF!



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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: CiroConsentino]
#365885 - 05/09/17 07:29 PM


> well, I'm not one of those.
> I like older games. When playing MAME I never enable HLSL/GLSL/BGFX because, and I
> have A GTX 970 4GB video card. I prefer the old bilinear stretching.
>
> I wonder how MAME will handle newer games that actually use Direct3D. Will MAME
> render the graphics purely in CPU ? Also for older games that use GLIDE API
> (Voodoo2/Voodoo3 video cards).

Direct 3D and GLIDE are software APIs, they're part of the compiled game code that would run on the emulated CPU.

To bypass them you'd have to rip apart the game code, find and intercept the calls, replace them etc. None of which is emulation.

By the time the emulated machine actually starts sending data to its video hardware it's in whatever native format the emulated card expects as it's gone through all the (emulated) game code, api code, driver code etc. that runs on the main CPU of the emulated system. You could attempt to approximately translate that *back* into something to pass to a modern 3D API, or do software rendering on the 3D card (the route MAME is most likely to take as it's the only way to ensure accuracy)



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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: CiroConsentino]
#366104 - 05/17/17 04:34 AM


You should consider trying out some of the shaders some time. You'd be surprised just how much those artifacts can make an image more 'natural'.

AFAIK bilinear filtering was never meant to be for upsampling more than like twice the original rate. It becomes terribly blurry when you render at normal resolution and scale it several times. No wonder you prefer things to be rendered at a high resolution.



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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: anikom15]
#366123 - 05/17/17 06:41 PM


I understand the appeal of increased resolution, improved textures, overclocking to get rid of slowdown and flicker that occurred on the original machine, etc., it's an interesting new way to look at this stuff, but that should not be considered to be pure "emulation." Just call it what it is: modding. I'm not against this stuff per se, but it should never, never be considered the end goal of the emulation scene.

Also, don't forget that home systems were meant to be viewed on low-resolution CRTs through analog RCA composite input (at best). Sure, the developers would have likely worked on RGB computer monitors, but they'd still be outputting at a lower native resolution with no bilinear filtering or upscaling. On a modern display, they are going to look like crap, and not just because graphics have advanced so much in the interim, but also because they have been completely stripped of the degradation in picture that occurred in the original delivery methods. There's something to be said for simulating loss of picture quality/fidelity, that's the only way to reproduce things like the Genesis/Mega Drive's dithered "transparency" and "extra" colors, or the "larger" color palette of composite mode CGA on old PC games. Sometimes you have to make the picture look "worse" to make it look "better."

At least when you add a layer of CRT simulation or fake vector glow/flicker, it's just a "mask" on top of the base system emulation which is no less accurate than it would be without them.



anikom15
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: TServo2049]
#366131 - 05/17/17 10:09 PM


> I understand the appeal of increased resolution, improved textures, overclocking to
> get rid of slowdown and flicker that occurred on the original machine, etc., it's an
> interesting new way to look at this stuff, but that should not be considered to be
> pure "emulation." Just call it what it is: modding. I'm not against this stuff per
> se, but it should never, never be considered the end goal of the emulation scene.
>
> Also, don't forget that home systems were meant to be viewed on low-resolution CRTs
> through analog RCA composite input (at best). Sure, the developers would have likely
> worked on RGB computer monitors, but they'd still be outputting at a lower native
> resolution with no bilinear filtering or upscaling. On a modern display, they are
> going to look like crap, and not just because graphics have advanced so much in the
> interim, but also because they have been completely stripped of the degradation in
> picture that occurred in the original delivery methods. There's something to be said
> for simulating loss of picture quality/fidelity, that's the only way to reproduce
> things like the Genesis/Mega Drive's dithered "transparency" and "extra" colors, or
> the "larger" color palette of composite mode CGA on old PC games. Sometimes you have
> to make the picture look "worse" to make it look "better."
>
> At least when you add a layer of CRT simulation or fake vector glow/flicker, it's
> just a "mask" on top of the base system emulation which is no less accurate than it
> would be without them.

It's not really a loss in quality that has the aesthetic effect, in my opinion. Things like composite artifacts don't lend much. The three major contributions I feel are the scanlines, the shadow mask, and the beam focus.

The beam focus gives a slightly blurred image. Even the best monitors cannot draw perfectly square pixels. The result are subtle soft edges between pixels and scanlines. This will aid in the brain's interpolation which is amplified by the scanline and shadow mask stages.

The scanline effect can be described as essentially an upsampling with zero insertion, i.e. the vertical lines are impulses of color bands. There are some caveats to this. Due to physical factors the color lines and the black lines are not the same height, but that's not really important to the overall idea, which is that zero-insertion is going to look better than stretching out the image with nearest-neighbor or bilinear filtering. With these filters, the constructed image is complete, with no room for your brain to dither things on its own. The bilinear filter will be blurry, while the nearest neighbor will be blocky. With the zero insertion, your brain fills in the black space. It can imagine what the full image 'behind' the scanlines looks like.

The shadow mask contributes to this effect as well, in both x and y dimensions, but to a lesser extent (in cases where there are no scanlines, the shadow mask has a greater effect, since dots per pixel is smaller). The shadow mask, due to its geometry, results in some distortions. This can be thought of as a lowpass filter. This is also why monochrome monitors are much sharper than color ones.



TServo2049
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: anikom15]
#366133 - 05/17/17 10:49 PM


Just to clarify, I was referring to home systems, particularly the Genesis and PlayStation 1 (and I think the N64) where developers "cheated" additional colors and transparency effects beyond the system's true capabilities by employing dithering, exploiting the fact that the majority of people would be playing on a TV set using a composite or RF connection. Without the signal degradation causing adjacent pixels to blend together, the dithering is exposed and it looks really ugly. For example, the first Silent Hill on PS1 definitely exploited composite artifacts to simulate atmospheric fog effects, and it doesn't look very good on higher-grade video outputs (or on emulator).



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I think you're both right new [Re: TServo2049]
#366134 - 05/17/17 11:04 PM


> Just to clarify, I was referring to home systems, particularly the Genesis and
> PlayStation 1 (and I think the N64) where developers "cheated" additional colors and
> transparency effects beyond the system's true capabilities by employing dithering,
> exploiting the fact that the majority of people would be playing on a TV set using a
> composite or RF connection. Without the signal degradation causing adjacent pixels to
> blend together, the dithering is exposed and it looks really ugly. For example, the
> first Silent Hill on PS1 definitely exploited composite artifacts to simulate
> atmospheric fog effects, and it doesn't look very good on higher-grade video outputs
> (or on emulator).

You're both correct, and allow me to add a third correct observation: There is a third aspect to the presentation, which is not just the signal format, but the transport format, to consider, in addition to the effects of the display device itself.

The signal format, such as "composite US NTSC", can further be affected by how that signal is transported. Things like the quality of the cabling used. An American NES connected to a TV through a shielded cable will still most likely look better than a completely unshielded cable next to something throwing off EMI that interferes with the signal.

Ideally, in my view, an emulator should be nothing more than a presentation for a set of signal-processing and signal-routing nodes, each with the capability of having inputs and outputs. Eventually, MAME will need to contend with having multiple running machine devices, and at this point one had may as well also implement a better system for passing data beyond the boundaries of the simulation/emulation layer, into the presentation layer. At this point, it would be a logical step to have the driver not in fact instantiate "screen" and "speaker" devices, but instead define a set of signal output points. Which could be routed into, say, a default presentation mode of the current flat 2D "screen" device and the current generic abstraction of a "speaker" device. But why not, say, a Commodore 1702 monitor, connected through an unshielded composite cable device? A good emulator should have the modularity to support all of these things.



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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: CTOJAH]
#366350 - 05/26/17 01:36 PM


Just wanted to say thank you to everyone for the recommendation. Project64 is great.
Mario 64 is extremely fun and I can see why it has been labeled "genere defining" for the 3D platform genere. Only thing I need to do now is to find a way to more easily kill Bowser for the third time using my keyboard (I dont have a game pad and getting Bowser spinning fast enough and staying fast enough to actually hit the bombs is hard with the keyboard keys)



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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: jonwil]
#366359 - 05/26/17 11:10 PM


> Only thing I need to do now is to find a way to more easily
> kill Bowser for the third time using my keyboard (I dont have a game pad and getting
> Bowser spinning fast enough and staying fast enough to actually hit the bombs is hard
> with the keyboard keys)

Nintendo never intended people to be using PC keyboards for playing Super Mario 64. Cheap SNES-knockoff USB gamepads are like $5 from China, or around $30 for PS3/360 style ones with analog sticks (which is of course a lot more useful for N64/PSX games). Add a few more bucks if you need a wireless one.



andreol263
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: jonwil]
#366360 - 05/27/17 12:28 AM


If you have a Vulkan-capable GPU, use ParaLLEL N64 core on Retroarch, it uses the most accurate graphic plugin with the parallelism that only the Vulkan API can offer, it's the best one by FAR, even if it's in the start of it's the development.
It's the only emulator that correctly emulates F-Zero X reflections on cars and runs Indiana Jones and many others effects that innacurate emulators like Project64 don't emulate.



anikom15
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Heihachi_73]
#366367 - 05/27/17 01:48 AM


> > Only thing I need to do now is to find a way to more easily
> > kill Bowser for the third time using my keyboard (I dont have a game pad and
> getting
> > Bowser spinning fast enough and staying fast enough to actually hit the bombs is
> hard
> > with the keyboard keys)
>
> Nintendo never intended people to be using PC keyboards for playing Super Mario 64.
> Cheap SNES-knockoff USB gamepads are like $5 from China, or around $30 for PS3/360
> style ones with analog sticks (which is of course a lot more useful for N64/PSX
> games). Add a few more bucks if you need a wireless one.

The Wii Classic Controller Pro are the only wired controllers I've found that seem to have both good D-pads and analog sticks. Won't have L3/R3 for PS though.



Heihachi_73
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: anikom15]
#366372 - 05/27/17 10:54 AM


The D-pad was the only downfall with my Logitech Dual Action gamepads. I have worn out the conductive rubber pads twice on them (both the D-pad and the face buttons) and replaced them with hacked up replacements. As soon as you accidentally jump in the air instead of hitting forward on a Tekken game you're toast, even the CPU characters will punish you.



jonwil
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Heihachi_73]
#366375 - 05/27/17 02:47 PM


I have a USB arcade stick (1 joystick and a whole bunch of buttons). Its great for MAME and games like Street Fighter II, I wonder if it would be any good for something like Super Mario 64 (using the joystick as the analog stick and the buttons for A, B, Z, C< and C> (the buttons most used when playing SM64)



R. Belmont
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Ziggy100]
#366380 - 05/27/17 08:38 PM


> Glad someone mentioned that, it's how I play it, and whilst the purists will hate it,
> I love it...

Wow, talk about sucking all of the charm right out of the game. In original form, Mario 64 is a stone cold classic with that indescribable Miyamoto touch. With this "texture pack" it looks like something Activision farted out between Call of Duty installments.



R. Belmont
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Shoegazr]
#366381 - 05/27/17 08:41 PM


My theory is that they're frustrated pirates. They find out emulation offers tens of thousands of "free games", but they won't play them unless they look like whatever the hot FPS of the moment is (Overwatch, now, I gather).



Heihachi_73
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: R. Belmont]
#366421 - 05/30/17 07:26 PM


> Wow, talk about sucking all of the charm right out of the game. In original form,
> Mario 64 is a stone cold classic with that indescribable Miyamoto touch. With this
> "texture pack" it looks like something Activision farted out between Call of Duty
> installments.

Super Mario 64 has never looked the same since the Nintendo 64 itself, mainly since there hasn't actually been a massively popular emulator that has bothered keeping the original look and feel but retaining speed in the way pSX did for example. I grew up with SupraHLE and Nemu64 in the "golden era" of N64 emulation (good riddance to both Glide wrappers and my i810 video chipset) before going between Project64 and 1964 (which was probably designed to sound like NinTenSixtyFour in some non-English language). I bet they still haven't fixed the reversed 2 in Mario Kart either (the character in second place has a "5" next to them in the around-the-screen position display - it's still there in the TASvideos runs, but who knows how old their TAS-ified emulators are). My console still has a number of years left before I completely wear out my four controllers, and as long as eBay is still there to hand me replacement parts (notably thumbsticks and conductive rubber pads for the buttons when they inevitably end up splitting, getting stuck or not working) they will be here for a long time.



Heihachi_73
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: jonwil]
#366423 - 05/30/17 07:51 PM


> I have a USB arcade stick (1 joystick and a whole bunch of buttons). Its great for
> MAME and games like Street Fighter II, I wonder if it would be any good for something
> like Super Mario 64 (using the joystick as the analog stick and the buttons for A, B,
> Z, C< and C> (the buttons most used when playing SM64)

I would find a digital 8-way stick to be a pain in the ass to control Mario, especially in tight areas like creeping past that piranha plant in Whomp's Fortress and other narrow areas, especially when Lakitu suddenly decides that being 30 degrees to one side is just the perfect location as opposed to being right behind you on such a narrow ledge, while refusing to move back no matter how many times you hit those C buttons to straighten it out! The "Mario cam" isn't much better in most cases, often with Mario taking up too much screen space or blocking the view of the ground even when zoomed out. You would definitely want an analog stick for Mario 64.



B2K24
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Heihachi_73]
#366426 - 05/30/17 09:05 PM


That HD pic posted is the very definition of a bastardization.

I'll only play SM64 with a N64 controller or not at all.



BIOS-D
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: B2K24]
#366430 - 05/30/17 11:24 PM


> That HD pic posted is the very definition of a bastardization.
>
> I'll only play SM64 with a N64 controller or not at all.

I'm actually in the same position. However it's hard to get a USB adapter for N64 Controller that supports rumble. So a DualShock 3 will do for now.



jonwil
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: B2K24]
#366432 - 05/31/17 01:51 AM


If I dont care about rumble, is it better to buy a N64 controller and a USB adapter for N64 emulation or is it better to buy something more modern that can connect to a PC directly?

N64 controller would be the most authentic but finding a second hand controller that is in good condition and isn't super-expensive is hard in my neck of the woods plus I then need to find an adapter to connect it to my PC that isn't super expensive as well. A more modern controller would probably be easier to connect to a PC (xbox in particular seems easy to get working) and would likely be easier to find.



B2K24
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: jonwil]
#366438 - 05/31/17 06:31 AM


> If I dont care about rumble, is it better to buy a N64 controller and a USB adapter
> for N64 emulation or is it better to buy something more modern that can connect to a
> PC directly?

This is what I use. If interested just try googling and see what's available in your region.

For me it works pretty well as the N64 has 6 buttons for fighters and I can switch to the PlayStation pad if I want a different feel.

It might not be the best for everyone, but for what I do, it works really well

I bought two off of Ebay more than 5 years ago. My original is still going strong with the 2nd one still wrapped and sealed for backup purposes if the original ever fails.



Heihachi_73
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: jonwil]
#366461 - 05/31/17 11:36 PM


> If I dont care about rumble, is it better to buy a N64 controller and a USB adapter
> for N64 emulation or is it better to buy something more modern that can connect to a
> PC directly?
>
> N64 controller would be the most authentic but finding a second hand controller that
> is in good condition and isn't super-expensive is hard in my neck of the woods plus I
> then need to find an adapter to connect it to my PC that isn't super expensive as
> well. A more modern controller would probably be easier to connect to a PC (xbox in
> particular seems easy to get working) and would likely be easier to find.

N64 controller+USB adapter for N64 games any day over a PlayStation or Xbox style controller. If you can get a replacement thumbstick even the worst N64 controller can be tamed into making Mario run at full speed instead of creeping along or only running when going sideways or toward the camera.



jonwil
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: Heihachi_73]
#366466 - 06/01/17 02:08 PM


Anyone used the 8bitdo controllers before?
https://www.amazon.com/Retro-8Bitdo-Wireless-Bluetooth-Controller-Android/dp/B01M1KP9GT
Wondering if it might be a viable option instead of trying to find a genuine used N64 controller that doesn't cost a fortune and doesn't have a ruined analog stick...



MooglyGuy
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A Challenger Appears new [Re: jonwil]
#366495 - 06/02/17 01:39 PM


If you're flexible enough to play an N64 game using a keyboard, you should have no problem adapting to something like an Xbox 360/One controller.

The dongle to allow any standard X360/One controller to pair to your PC instead of a console is affordable and can easily be ordered online, and the X360/One both have enough face buttons and shoulder buttons to do a capable job when you remap the N64 controller onto them.

My suggestion would be to have Left/Right Bumper mapped to L/R since they're digital controls, and remap either LT or RT onto Z, since it was intended as a trigger control. Map the N64's A and B onto the controller's A and X buttons respectively, map the D-pad 1:1, use the left stick as the analog stick, and find a way of mapping the right stick onto C-Up, C-Left, and C-Down. Map Start onto, well, Start, and you're good to go.



jonwil
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Re: A Challenger Appears new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#366512 - 06/03/17 04:02 AM


I decided to try my arcade stick with SM64.
Is it as good as a proper analog stick? No. But it was good enough to allow me to spin Bowser around fast enough to hit those mines and blow him up
And its certainly better than keyboard keys

Edited by jonwil (06/03/17 04:06 AM)



R. Belmont
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Re: Best Nintendo 64 emulator? new [Re: jonwil]
#366570 - 06/05/17 05:06 PM


> Anyone used the 8bitdo controllers before?
> https://www.amazon.com/Retro-8Bitdo-Wireless-Bluetooth-Controller-Android/dp/B01M1KP9GT
> Wondering if it might be a viable option instead of trying to find a genuine used N64
> controller that doesn't cost a fortune and doesn't have a ruined analog stick...

Their controllers have gotten generally bad reviews. As often happens when someone makes hardware for emulation users, unfortunately.


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