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Sgt Jack V
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Reged: 07/11/17
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Sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf
#367731 - 07/11/17 05:24 PM


I've noticed sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf. In Q*Bert, what I think is some of the speech is replaced with buzzing. At one point, the sound just cut out completely. In Gorf, the speech is higher pitched than normal and hard to make out. I'm using the latest ROMs, what I believe is the latest samples, and the latest version of MAME. I'd like a fix.



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Haze
Reged: 09/23/03
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Re: Sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf new [Re: Sgt Jack V]
#367732 - 07/11/17 06:12 PM


> I've noticed sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf. In Q*Bert, what I think is some of
> the speech is replaced with buzzing. At one point, the sound just cut out completely.
> In Gorf, the speech is higher pitched than normal and hard to make out. I'm using the
> latest ROMs, what I believe is the latest samples, and the latest version of MAME.
> I'd like a fix.

MAME doesn't use samples for those games anymore, only the emulation, which as you've observed is not yet complete.

Unfortunately it seems to be the single most hated change in the past year of MAME development, but I'm not really sure that's going to change anything because it *is* progress.



Envisaged0ne
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Re: Sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf new [Re: Haze]
#367733 - 07/11/17 06:41 PM


I agree. I'm very supportive of MAME, but I'm really upset that they disabled the samples for those games, without getting the emulated sounds working. It makes them unplayable now. At least IMO



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TafoidAdministrator
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Reged: 04/19/06
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Re: Sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf new [Re: Envisaged0ne]
#367735 - 07/11/17 07:01 PM


> I agree. I'm very supportive of MAME, but I'm really upset that they disabled the
> samples for those games, without getting the emulated sounds working. It makes them
> unplayable now. At least IMO

Two options in my mind:

1) You can adjust volume in TAB --> Slider Menu to 0.00 so that the Votrax is not heard. For many people, this is an acceptable solution for now.
2) Download MAME 0.180 and earlier for games which use Votrax and had samples for the previous experience. An alternative binary can properly be maintained in your current MAME folder if it is renamed something like "mame64_180.exe" so the current is always "mame64.exe"



CiroConsentino
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Re: Sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf new [Re: Haze]
#367737 - 07/11/17 07:08 PM


My wish is the return of external samples support for those games, along with the discrete audio emulation. The user would be able to choose between external audio samples or discrete audio... but that will probably never happen

Yeah sure... "use an older MAME build" reply is not a fix as I would like to experience the game with latest MAME builds + external audio samples.



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Envisaged0ne
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Re: Sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf new [Re: CiroConsentino]
#367738 - 07/11/17 07:14 PM


I have to agree.



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Sgt Jack V
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Re: Sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf new [Re: Tafoid]
#367740 - 07/11/17 07:36 PM


I decided to just go with disabling the speech.



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MooglyGuy
Renegade MAME Dev
Reged: 09/01/05
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Re: Sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf new [Re: Envisaged0ne]
#367742 - 07/11/17 09:02 PM


> I agree. I'm very supportive of MAME, but I'm really upset that they disabled the
> samples for those games, without getting the emulated sounds working. It makes them
> unplayable now. At least IMO

Likewise. As a developer I'm upset that a half-baked feature like this made it into the emulator.

I have a huge amount of respect for what other devs do for the project, but I truly don't think that committing the code in its state at the time was the right move.

When it comes to something obscure like most of my targets or most of the drivers people have worked on that are off the beaten path, it makes sense that any progress forward is worthwhile. But I don't think that having a heavily glitched implementation is better than what was there before when it comes to such important games as these.

At the risk of making OG really pissed off at me, I'm going to say here and now that he shouldn't have committed it without ensuring that such "core" games weren't affected negatively by his changes. He's moved on to doing a whole bunch of things for MAME, but notably, none of them involve un-fucking the Q*Bert audio. I'm a little bit annoyed by that, and I don't blame any of you for being annoyed by it too.

Mog out.



Haze
Reged: 09/23/03
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Re: Sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#367743 - 07/11/17 09:29 PM


> > I agree. I'm very supportive of MAME, but I'm really upset that they disabled the
> > samples for those games, without getting the emulated sounds working. It makes them
> > unplayable now. At least IMO
>
> Likewise. As a developer I'm upset that a half-baked feature like this made it into
> the emulator.
>
> I have a huge amount of respect for what other devs do for the project, but I truly
> don't think that committing the code in its state at the time was the right move.
>
> When it comes to something obscure like most of my targets or most of the drivers
> people have worked on that are off the beaten path, it makes sense that any progress
> forward is worthwhile. But I don't think that having a heavily glitched
> implementation is better than what was there before when it comes to such important
> games as these.
>
> At the risk of making OG really pissed off at me, I'm going to say here and now that
> he shouldn't have committed it without ensuring that such "core" games weren't
> affected negatively by his changes. He's moved on to doing a whole bunch of things
> for MAME, but notably, none of them involve un-fucking the Q*Bert audio. I'm a little
> bit annoyed by that, and I don't blame any of you for being annoyed by it too.
>
> Mog out.

I'm happy it was pushed in, just not really so thrilled that no option was kept to restore the old behavior without recompiling.



Andrew
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Re: Sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf new [Re: Sgt Jack V]
#367752 - 07/12/17 03:47 AM


> I'd like a fix.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Q-bert-Arcade-Cl...4-/152586277467




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Dullaron
Diablo III - Dunard #1884
Reged: 07/22/05
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Re: Sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf new [Re: Andrew]
#367753 - 07/12/17 04:03 AM


> > I'd like a fix.
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Q-bert-Arcade-Cl...4-/152586277467

More like make a fart sound file for Qbert. Every jump does the fart. Got fix. lol

Hell change all the sounds into fart.



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Master O
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Reged: 11/20/06
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Re: Sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf new [Re: CiroConsentino]
#367756 - 07/12/17 04:58 AM


> My wish is the return of external samples support for those games, along with the
> discrete audio emulation. The user would be able to choose between external audio
> samples or discrete audio... but that will probably never happen
>

I don't see it happening either.



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We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.

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taz-nz
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Reged: 11/26/07
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Re: Sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf new [Re: CiroConsentino]
#367776 - 07/12/17 02:43 PM


Make your own build, hell make your own fork if you want.

MAME's build environment is well documented and easily replicated. So it's no great issue to compile your own build, unlike many open source projects.

Both current and previous versions of MAME's source code are readily available, along with any required resources.

You don't even need to be a great coder, you just need compare versions of the source and see what was removed at put it back, the code is basically written for you.

Long term it might take more custom code to stay compatible with current builds, but the beauty of MAME being open source is your free to do it if you wish.

That's just my 2c.



CiroConsentino
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Re: Sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf new [Re: taz-nz]
#367780 - 07/12/17 05:02 PM


Easy for you to say... no, it's not that easy. I'm a programmer and I know what I'm saying. Re-adding samples support in MAME is no nearly an easy task.
And you can bet some MAME devs will complain about this build and ask to stop making it, like they did in the past with a few alternate builds, forcing their maintainers to terminate those builds...
If MAME devs don't support it in the official build, we're all screwed.



BIOS-D
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Reged: 08/07/06
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Re: Sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf new [Re: CiroConsentino]
#367781 - 07/12/17 05:23 PM


> Easy for you to say... no, it's not that easy. I'm a programmer and I know what I'm
> saying. Re-adding samples support in MAME is no nearly an easy task.
> And you can bet some MAME devs will complain about this build and ask to stop making
> it, like they did in the past with a few alternate builds, forcing their maintainers
> to terminate those builds...
> If MAME devs don't support it in the official build, we're all screwed.

Well I am was a programmer too and I can say it's even more easier than before. When I wanted pong back into MAME or to re-add unsupported NEOGEO games to it, I had to file compare between source releases manually and look line by line for differences. Now all you need to do is to track down the change into the SVN by author and driver and revert them back yourself for your PRIVATE build.

PRIVATE build. Do you know the meaning of that? It means a build for your own use only, hence you don't distribute anywhere else. No developers know it exist, no one will ask you to take it down (unless of course you are a selfish prick who likes to take credit for work not yours). There's not need to redistribute it because it isn't even a derivative build, but a personal taste change for your own. You are just too lazy to do it yourself and you are expecting someone else does the work for you.

EDIT: And here is half the work done. Now you are the programmer, it's up to you. I would but I don't care.

Edited by BIOS-D (07/12/17 11:28 PM)



gregf
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Re: Sound problems with Q*Bert and Gorf new [Re: BIOS-D]
#367787 - 07/12/17 06:52 PM



>and I can say it's even more easier than before. When I wanted pong back into MAME or to
>re-add unsupported NEOGEO games to it, I had to file compare between source releases
>manually and look line by line for differences.

Agreed. The way things are done now is far easier than say how development [specifically MAME and its emulation] was done 10 years earlier.

That had to be a challenge just making sure to keep Juergen's 1999 work of Pong still working and same with Monaco GP when updates of MAME were released from years 2000 to 2012.


>Now all you need to do is to track down the change into the SVN by author and driver and
>revert them back yourself for your PRIVATE build.

Better yet, maybe Robbbert could have the old method supported in HBMAME until Votrax SC-01 emulation is complete that is if Robbbert allows that to be an option in HBMAME.


My own opinion is MAME keep things as is since OG's work even if audio is still off is still progress compared to previous Votrax audio emulation actually simulation with external audio samples. The fact that preliminary Votrax audio emulation is supported is amazing since the technical info was sparingly available outside of US patents paperwork filings.


General users should stay with a specific older version of MAME for specific games since
that's what many users had to do when Keith Wilkins had made changes to centralized discrete audio emulation work and had audio for Atari Fire Truck while Atari Asteroids audio took a hit back in spring 2001 until Derrick Renaud came along and fixed up Atari Asteroids audio in late 2004.


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