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Dullaron
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Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge
#369330 - 09/02/17 07:16 AM


http://kotaku.com/capcom-is-re-releasing-street-fighter-ii-on-a-snes-cart-1798645758

Do what?



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Heihachi_73
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Re: Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge new [Re: Dullaron]
#369334 - 09/02/17 01:21 PM


> http://kotaku.com/capcom-is-re-releasing-street-fighter-ii-on-a-snes-cart-1798645758
>
> Do what?

Big deal, isn't SF2 one of the highest selling SNES games already? Besides, it's only shitty World Warrior, they couldn't even be bothered releasing Turbo or SSF2 which were far better than the original SF2. Who knows, they could have even sourced old cartridges themselves and just rehoused them in new shells. I am not convinced until someone takes one apart - if I see 1990s date stamps on the chips or the internals of a Chinese pirate cart it's complete bullshit as far as I am concerned. Anyone can put a PCB in a new cartridge shell.

I would much rather see them see re-release the Megaman games on the SNES. Aside from X1, the SNES games of that franchise are ridiculously rare and even more ridiculously expensive (even X1 goes for $100+ in Australia just for a loose cartridge, mainly due to its collectable status; MM7 and X2 cost several hundred and a PAL version of X3 costs more than a car), meanwhile the Super Famicom versions are a dime a dozen, go figure. That said, I would have no idea where they would source CX4 chips 20+ years after they were last manufactured - they were used for the wireframe 3D effects in X2 and X3.

The only SNES games that probably wouldn't make it are Megaman's Soccer and Rockman & Forte (aka Megaman & Bass), the latter of which only exists on the GBA outside Japan, and the former which was a rush job and left the factory unfinished.

All said, it looks like the re-release will be US NTSC only anyway just to screw over owners of PAL consoles with their stupid lockout chips - Capcom simply loves screwing over the PAL region.



Sgt Nate V
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Re: Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge new [Re: Heihachi_73]
#369335 - 09/02/17 03:32 PM


It gets worse.

WARNING: Use of this reproduction game cartridge (the “Product”) on the SNES gaming hardware may cause the SNES console to overheat or catch fire. The SNES hardware is deemed a vintage collectible, so please exercise extreme caution when using the Product and make sure there is fire extinguishment equipment nearby. Use of the Product is at the sole risk of the user. The Product is sold “as is”. Neither iam8bit, Inc. nor Capcom Co, Ltd. make any representation or warranty, express or implied, of any kind, including any warranty of merchantability of fitness for a particular use, or that the Product is safe to use, and iam8bit, Inc. or Capcom Co, Ltd. shall have no liability for damage to property or persons arising from use of the Product. Nintendo of America is in no way associated with the release of this Product.

This is the actual warning of the product.



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BIOS-D
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Re: Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge new [Re: Heihachi_73]
#369339 - 09/02/17 06:38 PM


> All said, it looks like the re-release will be US NTSC only anyway just to screw over
> owners of PAL consoles with their stupid lockout chips - Capcom simply loves screwing
> over the PAL region.

That's like your fault. Here in the NTSC region people don't use weird 50Hz formats the Europeans use. We also don't have stupid laws like the ones that discourage the selling of products unless they are localized to their native language. Special mention to the censoring of blood, Nazis and even ninjas some countries had.

I still fail to look at the advantages of European releases. They may be the most well revised, but also the ones that came a year late. They aren't compatible with NTSC, heavily censored, localization resource consuming or any combination of the previous mentioned.

Hurray for Japan/USA releases... except for certain jewels like Shenmue II for Dreamcast or Michigan: Report from Hell on PS2 that come to rescue.



Envisaged0ne
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Reged: 08/29/06
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Re: Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge new [Re: BIOS-D]
#369340 - 09/02/17 07:08 PM


Well said. I totally agree!



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CTOJAH
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Reged: 07/13/10
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Re: Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge new [Re: BIOS-D]
#369348 - 09/02/17 09:21 PM


Regarding PAL vs NTSC :
I live in Europe (PAL region) so I feel like I have to defend my standard...
All Amiga games are better in its PAL iteration. They have much bigger (vertical) resolution - 320x256 vs 320x200, for example look at the Battle Squadron (PAL version).



Haze
Reged: 09/23/03
Posts: 4639
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Re: Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge new [Re: CTOJAH]
#369349 - 09/02/17 09:39 PM


> Regarding PAL vs NTSC :
> I live in Europe (PAL region) so I feel like I have to defend my standard...
> All Amiga games are better in its PAL iteration. They have much bigger (vertical)
> resolution - 320x256 vs 320x200, for example look at the Battle Squadron (PAL
> version).

most Amiga games were developed in Europe tho, so natively designed like that. Also most Amiga games were slow paced, very few actually updated at 50hz, most only moved the sprites etc. every other frame. Also Battle Squadron is the game that put me of shmups for many, many years, thought it was an absolutely terrible game, must represent the best of the genre based on reviews, so the genre was absolutely not for me. I maintain to this day that only Japan has ever got shmups right.

plus these days those extra pixels make little difference to people, they're all low-resolution games.

interestingly there are quite a few SMS games that were developed in Europe and are much better at 50hz, strange for a Japanese console.



anikom15
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Reged: 04/11/16
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Re: Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge new [Re: Sgt Nate V]
#369352 - 09/03/17 12:18 AM


I'm sure that actually happens.

I wouldn't consider an SNES a vintage collectible, but whatever.



SoltanGris42
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Reged: 11/16/13
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Re: Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge new [Re: Sgt Nate V]
#369353 - 09/03/17 12:33 AM


That's just to cover their ass. If you pull out an SNES that hasn't been turned on since 1995 and it catches fire, then that's on you.

So no suing Capcom claiming that they forced you to plug in your ancient untested electronics by selling you this game.



anikom15
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Re: Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge new [Re: SoltanGris42]
#369356 - 09/03/17 01:24 AM


My friend and I recently found his old SNES with a freaking hole in it and it still worked.

We used to joke about being able to shoot the thing and it would still work. Well looks like that's actually true.



vram74
Semi-Lurker
Reged: 09/28/03
Posts: 730
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You missed the vitals... NT new [Re: anikom15]
#369357 - 09/03/17 02:40 AM


nt



Kitsune Sniper
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Reged: 01/30/04
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Re: Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge new [Re: SoltanGris42]
#369358 - 09/03/17 07:12 AM


> That's just to cover their ass. If you pull out an SNES that hasn't been turned on
> since 1995 and it catches fire, then that's on you.
>
> So no suing Capcom claiming that they forced you to plug in your ancient untested
> electronics by selling you this game.

Nope. They probably said this because iam8bit is cheaping out on components and using 3.3V Flash chips.

https://db-electronics.ca/2017/07/05/the-dangers-of-3-3v-flash-in-retro-consoles/

This was linked in a post on the NintendoAge thread on this subject. I would appreciate it if some MAME devs would chime in on what it says, since I'm a translator and don't understand squat about electricity.



Kitsune Sniper
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Re: Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge new [Re: BIOS-D]
#369359 - 09/03/17 07:15 AM


> > All said, it looks like the re-release will be US NTSC only anyway just to screw
> over
> > owners of PAL consoles with their stupid lockout chips - Capcom simply loves
> screwing
> > over the PAL region.
>
> That's like your fault. Here in the NTSC region people don't use weird 50Hz formats
> the Europeans use. We also don't have stupid laws like the ones that discourage the
> selling of products unless they are localized to their native language. Special
> mention to the censoring of blood, Nazis and even ninjas some countries had.

Quebec sends its regards.

Also, Murica is entirely backwards when it comes to sex and violence.



SoltanGris42
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Posts: 130
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Re: Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge new [Re: Kitsune Sniper]
#369360 - 09/03/17 09:07 AM


> > That's just to cover their ass. If you pull out an SNES that hasn't been turned on
> > since 1995 and it catches fire, then that's on you.
> >
> > So no suing Capcom claiming that they forced you to plug in your ancient untested
> > electronics by selling you this game.
>
> Nope. They probably said this because iam8bit is cheaping out on components and using
> 3.3V Flash chips.
>
> https://db-electronics.ca/2017/07/05/the-dangers-of-3-3v-flash-in-retro-consoles/
>
> This was linked in a post on the NintendoAge thread on this subject. I would
> appreciate it if some MAME devs would chime in on what it says, since I'm a
> translator and don't understand squat about electricity.

I see an article speculating that they use 3.3V flash. But that's all I can find.

So it looks like people are saying that

(1) They contain 3.3V flash (why are they using flash? We don't have to write to the cart like with an everdrive...)
(2) the cartridge doesn't drop the 5v that the console delivers to the 3.3 needed by the chips properly.

All without having a cart in hand to verify any of this.

I'm not saying that this can't turn out to be an issue. But for now, this is literally completely made up by people that read about the Everdrive 3.3v problem recently and invented the fact that this new rerelease cart has the same problem.



Vas Crabb
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Reged: 12/13/05
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Re: Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge new [Re: SoltanGris42]
#369362 - 09/03/17 10:02 AM


> (1) They contain 3.3V flash (why are they using flash? We don't have to write to the

Cost. Programming off-the-shelf Flash is a lot cheaper than getting ROM masks done and fab'ing them.



jonwil
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Reged: 10/06/03
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Re: Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#369363 - 09/03/17 11:51 AM


I wonder where the lockout chips for these are going to come from? Are they going to buy old SNES carts and re-use the lockout chips? Are they going to use some sort of lockout chip clone? (does such a thing exist for the SNES at this point?)



anikom15
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Re: Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge new [Re: jonwil]
#369375 - 09/03/17 06:11 PM


Is there a Nintendo Seal on the cartridge?



Kitsune Sniper
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Re: Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge new [Re: SoltanGris42]
#369378 - 09/03/17 06:45 PM


> > > That's just to cover their ass. If you pull out an SNES that hasn't been turned
> on
> > > since 1995 and it catches fire, then that's on you.
> > >
> > > So no suing Capcom claiming that they forced you to plug in your ancient untested
> > > electronics by selling you this game.
> >
> > Nope. They probably said this because iam8bit is cheaping out on components and
> using
> > 3.3V Flash chips.
> >
> > https://db-electronics.ca/2017/07/05/the-dangers-of-3-3v-flash-in-retro-consoles/
> >
> > This was linked in a post on the NintendoAge thread on this subject. I would
> > appreciate it if some MAME devs would chime in on what it says, since I'm a
> > translator and don't understand squat about electricity.
>
> I see an article speculating that they use 3.3V flash. But that's all I can find.
>
> So it looks like people are saying that
>
> (1) They contain 3.3V flash (why are they using flash? We don't have to write to the
> cart like with an everdrive...)
> (2) the cartridge doesn't drop the 5v that the console delivers to the 3.3 needed by
> the chips properly.
>
> All without having a cart in hand to verify any of this.
>
> I'm not saying that this can't turn out to be an issue. But for now, this is
> literally completely made up by people that read about the Everdrive 3.3v problem
> recently and invented the fact that this new rerelease cart has the same problem.

I'm not saying this is what's going on. I'm saying it's likely because of cost, laziness, and Capcom being Capcom. Plus the fire hazard thing. What other reason could cause a game publisher to issue such a warning?

As for the lockout chip, pirate cart manufacturers figured out a way to get past it decades ago. There's no reason to think these repro makers don't already know how to do that, especially when they've been selling bootlegged games on carts for years.



Heihachi_73
I am the Table!
Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 954
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Re: Capcom Is Re-Releasing Street Fighter II On A SNES Cartridge new [Re: Haze]
#369420 - 09/04/17 12:01 PM


> interestingly there are quite a few SMS games that were developed in Europe and are
> much better at 50hz, strange for a Japanese console.

Sonic 1 (SMS) is much better in PAL mode. At 60Hz, the Master System simply can't keep up with fast-moving action (no Blast Processing™ back then).

With regards to NTSC/PAL resolutions, a lot of consoles didn't even bother with the extra height PAL offered - SMS games pretty much only ever used 256x192 (32x24 tiles) even though it had a higher resolution comparable to the Mega Drive's 256x224 mode, they just left the rest of the screen blank (the fan remake of Megaman 2 on Master System uses 256x224 mode). The same thing happened with Mega Drive games, they stayed with 224p and just ran the games slower (with most of the ROMs being completely unchanged from the original Japanese or US versions, or with a different region lock added as per Wily Wars vs. Rockman Mega World), which had a side effect of making everything look letterboxed just like the SMS. Playing Sonic on a PAL Mega Drive feels ridiculously slow after playing the "Genesis" version on an emulator.

I strongly believe forcing 50Hz mode on PAL region video games (or even television for that matter) was completely unnecessary, even back in the Atari 2600 era. Just about any "50Hz" PAL TV made since the 1970s can handle 60Hz without the screen rolling. I had absolutely no trouble running NTSC games on my chipped PS1 (which of course meant it was in PAL60 mode though, not NTSC colours), the screen never rolled when going from 50Hz to 60Hz and back, and that was a woodgrain television from 1981 (AWA, which had a Mitsubishi chassis and tube) with no inputs aside from a 300 ohm aerial socket. Now, if I used my PS2 on that TV instead, it would simply go black and white in 60Hz mode because they blatantly lied about "PAL60" - the console always uses NTSC colours in 60Hz mode regardless of the region (unlike the GameCube which actually did output PAL60 and therefore in colour).


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