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SmitdoggAdministrator
Reged: 09/18/03
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DU Fundraiser: Taikyoku Baseball, Battlecry prototype and more
#370884 - 11/09/17 07:53 PM






Thanks to everyone who donated for Cyber Storm. We'll be playing it next week if everything goes well. New fundraiser starts now!

Shoutime needs some donation help for 4 rare boards. Taikyoku Baseball is an incredibly rare game believed to be some sort of prototype of Champion Baseball II. It's so rare I don't think there is any site for me to link to.

http://smitdogg.mameworld.info/du/Taikyoku_Baseball.jpg

The other games are 2 versions of Battlecry. One is a prototype made for the AOU 1989 show and the other is Rev C.

http://smitdogg.mameworld.info/du/battlecry-proto.jpg

Lastly there is the Japan version of Capcom Bowling.

http://smitdogg.mameworld.info/du/capcombowling-japan.jpg

Donate below! Let's go for $475 to cover 1/4 of the PCB costs. Please paste "Taikyoku Baseball & Battlecry" in the paypal comments.

https://www.paypal.me/ShouTime




Thanks so far for donations from:
progetto-SNAPS
Patrick Wheeler
Sean Sutton
Surgeville
Paul Vining
Marisol Nuñez Serrano
Rod_Wod
Jeffrey Gray
John Wilke



Update: Donations went better than expected in the Cyber Storm fundraiser so I moved some donations around and we have a jumpstart here. We are still several hundred short here though at the moment.



Haze
Reged: 09/23/03
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Re: DU Fundraiser: Taikyoku Baseball, Battlecry prototype and more new [Re: Smitdogg]
#370908 - 11/10/17 06:33 PM


did anybody donate towards the birdie try / f1 dream MCUs in the end?

would have been really nice to see those as the games really aren't going to work properly without them.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: DU Fundraiser: Taikyoku Baseball, Battlecry prototype and more new [Re: Haze]
#370909 - 11/10/17 06:35 PM


No, but we'll get them in time. There are some 8751s we already have though that we can send soon.



Haze
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Re: DU Fundraiser: Taikyoku Baseball, Battlecry prototype and more new [Re: Smitdogg]
#370910 - 11/10/17 06:37 PM


> No, but we'll get them in time. There are some 8751s we already have though that we
> can send soon.

well try not to spam the guys with unimportant ones.

Ones that control game critical actions where the simulation could potentially be buggy are obviously a lot more important than ones with minor tasks that have been simulated easily.

The ones I pointed out were in the former category, which is why I pointed them out.

The mistake of sending mostly pointless chips didn't help with the original decap project.

Data East, IREM and Sega ones are potentially interesting because there can be subtle behaviours we've missed with them.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: DU Fundraiser: Taikyoku Baseball, Battlecry prototype and more new [Re: Haze]
#370911 - 11/10/17 06:40 PM


I don't have a list of important vs unimportant and the only one I know that is unimportant (1943) is for whatever reason at the top of Brian's want list, so don't expect some categorizing whatever. People can thank their lucky stars for any MCUs we donate to be frank, or do the work themselves.



Haze
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Re: DU Fundraiser: Taikyoku Baseball, Battlecry prototype and more new [Re: Smitdogg]
#370912 - 11/10/17 06:42 PM


> I don't have a list of important vs unimportant and the only one I know that is
> unimportant (1943) is for whatever reason at the top of Brian's want list, so don't
> expect some categorizing whatever. People can thank their lucky stars for any MCUs we
> donate to be frank, or do the work themselves.

yeah 1943 is the very definition of pointless, returns fixed values from a table, directly compared against in the game code, it's not going to be doing anything we don't expect.

ones with an actual function, that do calculations for the game and such should be prioritized really, those are the ones where our emulation could be wrong without us knowing right now.



RdW
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Reged: 02/13/05
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Re: DU Fundraiser: Taikyoku Baseball, Battlecry prototype and more new [Re: Haze]
#370920 - 11/11/17 01:25 AM


> > I don't have a list of important vs unimportant and the only one I know that is
> > unimportant (1943) is for whatever reason at the top of Brian's want list, so don't
> > expect some categorizing whatever. People can thank their lucky stars for any MCUs
> we
> > donate to be frank, or do the work themselves.
>
> yeah 1943 is the very definition of pointless, [...] and such should be
> prioritized really [...]
This is your POV and you might even be right within this view but, excuse me, i think sometimes you behave like a "Bull in a China Shop"

Edited by RdW (11/11/17 01:26 AM)



Haze
Reged: 09/23/03
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Re: DU Fundraiser: Taikyoku Baseball, Battlecry prototype and more new [Re: RdW]
#370931 - 11/11/17 03:28 PM


> > > I don't have a list of important vs unimportant and the only one I know that is
> > > unimportant (1943) is for whatever reason at the top of Brian's want list, so
> don't
> > > expect some categorizing whatever. People can thank their lucky stars for any
> MCUs
> > we
> > > donate to be frank, or do the work themselves.
> >
> > yeah 1943 is the very definition of pointless, [...] and such should be
> > prioritized really [...]
> This is your POV and you might even be right within this view but, excuse me, i think
> sometimes you behave like a "Bull in a China Shop"

Yes, it's my point of view, but it's based on what has happened in the past and based on a strong knowledge of the purpose of each of the protection chips.

Dr. Decap ended up being sent a whole bunch of chips, a lot of them that he did process were utterly pointless for emulation (things like Golden Tee serial number providing chips, absolute waste of time)

A lot of the ones that really needed processing to actually make a difference did not get processed because in the end neither the capacity, nor funding was there to get them all done.

What this did was create a whole bunch of controversy with people who had sent chips thinking they would be processed being left with nothing, while sorting out that mess has taken until very recently; it took a huge effort to actually get everybody happy again. The point where all the 68705s were added was (almost) the final step in that. We were lucky to be able to recover the chips, but even then more money had to be spent on replacing some of them that had been lost to bring about any level of harmony.

In the end, we want to see better emulation, or dumps of chips that are essential if repairing a board because they handle critical tasks. Cases where the protection can be easily simulated, or the code patched on a PCB to not care (or a substitute MCU created that does exactly the same thing) might not be *ideal* but nothing major is in danger of being lost.

The people handling these tasks have limited capacity and are doing things often out of their own pocket, because they want to do them. Neither time (their time, or access to equipment) nor funding is unlimited. I'd say the more reckless behaviour here is overloading such people with things that we can live without.

I said the same things with the previous Decap project, and nobody listened.



Renegade
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Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 437
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Re: DU Fundraiser: Taikyoku Baseball, Battlecry prototype and more new [Re: Haze]
#370934 - 11/11/17 06:11 PM


> > > > I don't have a list of important vs unimportant and the only one I know that is
> > > > unimportant (1943) is for whatever reason at the top of Brian's want list, so
> > don't
> > > > expect some categorizing whatever. People can thank their lucky stars for any
> > MCUs
> > > we
> > > > donate to be frank, or do the work themselves.
> > >
> > > yeah 1943 is the very definition of pointless, [...] and such should be
> > > prioritized really [...]
> > This is your POV and you might even be right within this view but, excuse me, i
> think
> > sometimes you behave like a "Bull in a China Shop"
>
> Yes, it's my point of view, but it's based on what has happened in the past and based
> on a strong knowledge of the purpose of each of the protection chips.
>
> Dr. Decap ended up being sent a whole bunch of chips, a lot of them that he did
> process were utterly pointless for emulation (things like Golden Tee serial number
> providing chips, absolute waste of time)
>
> A lot of the ones that really needed processing to actually make a difference did not
> get processed because in the end neither the capacity, nor funding was there to get
> them all done.
>
> What this did was create a whole bunch of controversy with people who had sent chips
> thinking they would be processed being left with nothing, while sorting out that mess
> has taken until very recently; it took a huge effort to actually get everybody happy
> again. The point where all the 68705s were added was (almost) the final step in that.
> We were lucky to be able to recover the chips, but even then more money had to be
> spent on replacing some of them that had been lost to bring about any level of
> harmony.
>
> In the end, we want to see better emulation, or dumps of chips that are essential if
> repairing a board because they handle critical tasks. Cases where the protection can
> be easily simulated, or the code patched on a PCB to not care (or a substitute MCU
> created that does exactly the same thing) might not be *ideal* but nothing major is
> in danger of being lost.
>
> The people handling these tasks have limited capacity and are doing things often out
> of their own pocket, because they want to do them. Neither time (their time, or
> access to equipment) nor funding is unlimited. I'd say the more reckless behaviour
> here is overloading such people with things that we can live without.
>
> I said the same things with the previous Decap project, and nobody listened.



Everyone one has an opinion and I understand exactly where haze is coming from and I tend to agree.

I appreciate ALL work added to mame and the time spent to do it. But I understand where haze is coming from. It would be nice to see a priority list and I understand that decapping some of them that are protection devices may do nothing to further the emulation but look at some of the amazing break thru`s in the last couple years. Some of those fell into the "never gonna happen" category.



Only here to annoy...


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