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MooglyGuy
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Saving the History of Handheld Games (aka The Handheld Union)
#372156 - 12/22/17 03:05 AM


Since I have to include a link, here it is: https://twitter.com/TheMogMiner/status/943943662525919232

On a local auction site, the opportunity has come up to make a bulk purchase of upwards of 30 assorted handhelds - mainly Game & Watch and Gakken - which I feel is too good to pass up.

However, I can't do this alone. Given that on this same auction site, an individual working Game & Watch can fetch between 700 and 3000 SEK (Swedish Kronor), or about 70-300 EUR, it would not be unreasonable to expect that the final price of the auction will be in the range of 2000 to 4000 EUR. Most likely towards the middle-high end of that range. Anything more would be stupid because one could purchase all of the games individually for that amount.

I myself have dropped upwards of 500-600 EUR on obtaining various LCD handhelds over the past couple of weeks, thanks to a generous holiday bonus at work. But ultimately, the hard limit on what's remaining is about 2000 EUR, and I would be frankly shocked if the auction ends that low. While a handful of the games are already emulated or are currently sitting on my ottoman waiting for everything I've bought to arrive so I can send them all off collectively for dumping, and I could thus resell the duplicates, it's never a guaranteed thing that any given auction will sell, and I would consider it foolish to rely entirely on this for defraying costs.

Thus, I turn to you good folks for help in defraying what will surely be a large, but worthwhile, sum. Unlike traditional DU calls for help, I'm going to buck the trend here and expressly ask that people not send me money at this point. Just post here to publicly pledge a given dollar/EUR/whatever amount: I will add you to the list of potential pledges, and then PM you with a link to the auction itself. If and when I win the auction, I will post proof of winning, then come calling for the pledges. It would be a colossal pain in the ass to end up not winning the bid, and then have to refund a bunch of peoples' money for what amounts to a one-time opportunity.



MooglyGuy
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Current pledges new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372159 - 12/22/17 04:22 AM


Anonymized list of pledges so far (just anonymizing the non-MAMEworld people, as I don't know if they want to be known publicly yet or not):

anikom15 - 60 USD
f205v - 50 EUR
Sacrilego - 50 USD
Rygar9 - 20 USD
uman - 100 EUR

R***** (Telegram) - 100 EUR
o***** (Telegram) - 25-100 USD
k******* (Telegram) - 20 USD
o******* (Telegram) - 100 EUR
h** (IRC) - 50 EUR
D************* (IRC) - 100 USD
Z**** (IRC) - 25 USD
m**** (IRC) - 100 USD

h*********** (Twitter) - 50 USD
s*********** (Twitter) - 50 USD
a******* (Twitter) - 230 EUR
o*** (Twitter) - 15 USD
O************* (Twitter) - 25-50 USD
k***** (Twitter) - 100 USD
J***** (Twitter) - 10 USD
B********* (Twitter) - 25 USD
s******* (Twitter) - 40 USD
f******* (Twitter) - 20 USD
R*********** (Twitter) - 50 USD
F********** - 50 USD
t************** (Twitter) - 50 USD
d******* (Twitter) - 100 USD
D********** (Twitter) - 75-150 USD
j****** (Twitter) - 25 USD
m**** (Twitter) - 25 USD
a***** (Twitter) - 150-300 USD
K********** (Twitter) - 25 USD
j******** (Twitter) - 25 USD
l************* (Twitter) - 20 USD
k**** (Twitter) - 100 EUR
b******* (Twitter) - 50 USD
W***** (Twitter) - 20 USD
d***** (Twitter) - 25 USD
d****** (Twitter) - 25 USD
m************ (Twitter) - 10 EUR
E************* (Twitter) - 10 USD
B****** (Twitter) - 25 EUR
x****** (Twitter) - 50-100 USD
a******* (Twitter) - 20 USD
u************** (Twitter) - 25 USD
I********* (Twitter) - 25 USD

Low end estimate: 1590 USD + 815 EUR (~965 USD) = 2555 USD / 2155 EUR
Hi end estimate: 2555 USD + 375 USD = 2930 USD / 2470 EUR

We can now cover the minimum expected strike price of the auction! It won't yet cover the potential high point of the auction (the higher end of 2000-4000 EUR), but I'm willing to make up the difference, and I'm confident that we can do it, since the lion's share of the pledges are outside of the usual dump-related fund-raising channels.

In addition to that, any excess funds will be used to either refund contributors, or be put towards obtaining more handhelds for dumping, depending on their preference.

Who's willing to push us closer to our goal?



Vas Crabb
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Re: Saving the History of Handheld Games (aka The Handheld Union) new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372166 - 12/22/17 05:05 AM


I'd just like to lend some extra weight to this. Handheld emulation is a place where MAME really shines. It's an area where MAME has been the first or only project to attempt real emulation rather than simulation based on gameplay observation. LCD handhelds aren't just nostalgia for '80s kids, they're a whole class of consumer electronics that's really faded from prominence, and it's important to preserve this piece of history. Not just as photos, but as an interactive experience.

LCD handhelds have also been a catalyst for a lot of other improvements in MAME, including improvements to the output and artwork systems, and better support for CPUs with non-linear/paged program counters. These benefits carry over to other systems, giving performance improvements and making driver development more efficient. This effort has brought together people with a wide range of skills, from decapsulating and photographing the MCUs to tracing the LCD segments, to adding the game drivers to MAME, to the improvements to MAME core functionality that these games heavily rely on.

So even if you don't particularly care for the games in question, this is something that can benefit the whole MAME ecosystem, and preservation-based emulation as a whole.



Haze
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Re: Saving the History of Handheld Games (aka The Handheld Union) new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#372167 - 12/22/17 05:17 AM


> I'd just like to lend some extra weight to this. Handheld emulation is a place where
> MAME really shines. It's an area where MAME has been the first or only project to
> attempt real emulation rather than simulation based on gameplay observation. LCD
> handhelds aren't just nostalgia for '80s kids, they're a whole class of consumer
> electronics that's really faded from prominence, and it's important to preserve this
> piece of history. Not just as photos, but as an interactive experience.
>
> LCD handhelds have also been a catalyst for a lot of other improvements in MAME,
> including improvements to the output and artwork systems, and better support for CPUs
> with non-linear/paged program counters. These benefits carry over to other systems,
> giving performance improvements and making driver development more efficient. This
> effort has brought together people with a wide range of skills, from decapsulating
> and photographing the MCUs to tracing the LCD segments, to adding the game drivers to
> MAME, to the improvements to MAME core functionality that these games heavily rely
> on.
>
> So even if you don't particularly care for the games in question, this is something
> that can benefit the whole MAME ecosystem, and preservation-based emulation as a
> whole.

I have a feeling the non-MCU ones with ASICs might end up being a catalyst for people writing netlist style simulations of custom chips like that too assuming high enough resolution images can be produced as from the ones we have seen images of so far they look relatively simple compared to some of the others we've seen so might be a good starting place.

As we've found with various protection devices, not every single one we've ended up seeing decapped is an MCU, some are custom ASICs similar to those found in some of the handhelds (in the case of Jaleco's protection device used on some games, it actually likes like some 7-seg driver ASIC repurposed as a protection device)



anikom15
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Re: Saving the History of Handheld Games (aka The Handheld Union) new [Re: Haze]
#372174 - 12/22/17 07:05 AM


> > I'd just like to lend some extra weight to this. Handheld emulation is a place
> where
> > MAME really shines. It's an area where MAME has been the first or only project to
> > attempt real emulation rather than simulation based on gameplay observation. LCD
> > handhelds aren't just nostalgia for '80s kids, they're a whole class of consumer
> > electronics that's really faded from prominence, and it's important to preserve
> this
> > piece of history. Not just as photos, but as an interactive experience.
> >
> > LCD handhelds have also been a catalyst for a lot of other improvements in MAME,
> > including improvements to the output and artwork systems, and better support for
> CPUs
> > with non-linear/paged program counters. These benefits carry over to other systems,
> > giving performance improvements and making driver development more efficient. This
> > effort has brought together people with a wide range of skills, from decapsulating
> > and photographing the MCUs to tracing the LCD segments, to adding the game drivers
> to
> > MAME, to the improvements to MAME core functionality that these games heavily rely
> > on.
> >
> > So even if you don't particularly care for the games in question, this is something
> > that can benefit the whole MAME ecosystem, and preservation-based emulation as a
> > whole.
>
> I have a feeling the non-MCU ones with ASICs might end up being a catalyst for people
> writing netlist style simulations of custom chips like that too assuming high enough
> resolution images can be produced as from the ones we have seen images of so far they
> look relatively simple compared to some of the others we've seen so might be a good
> starting place.
>
> As we've found with various protection devices, not every single one we've ended up
> seeing decapped is an MCU, some are custom ASICs similar to those found in some of
> the handhelds (in the case of Jaleco's protection device used on some games, it
> actually likes like some 7-seg driver ASIC repurposed as a protection device)

The info gotten out of these things has been incredible.



f205v
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Re: Current pledges new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372179 - 12/22/17 11:42 AM


I'm in with a pledge of 50Eur



Ciao
f205v



MooglyGuy
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Re: Current pledges new [Re: f205v]
#372180 - 12/22/17 01:22 PM


I updated the pledge list, thanks! PM me if you'd like a link to the auction.



MooglyGuy
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Pledge list updated *nt* new [Re: f205v]
#372181 - 12/22/17 01:30 PM





Sacrilego
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Re: Current pledges new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372189 - 12/22/17 05:52 PM


count me in for $50 USD



MooglyGuy
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Pledge list updated again, huge thanks! HMU if you want me to PM you the auction link. *nt* new [Re: Sacrilego]
#372190 - 12/22/17 06:01 PM





uman
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Re: Pledge list updated again, huge thanks! HMU if you want me to PM you the auction link. *nt* new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372224 - 12/23/17 12:52 PM


Christmas is near.... so count me in for 100 €uros

I also would give away my Deputy Den for dumping, if someone of the devs can send me a PM, where to send it. I am crying, but what will you do .



MooglyGuy
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Re: Pledge list updated again, huge thanks! HMU if you want me to PM you the auction link. *nt* new [Re: uman]
#372228 - 12/23/17 01:30 PM


> Christmas is near.... so count me in for 100 €uros
>
> I also would give away my Deputy Den for dumping, if someone of the devs can send me
> a PM, where to send it. I am crying, but what will you do .

Wow! I know we've had our differences, dude, but THANK YOU SO MUCH! Both for the auction assistance, and the volunteering of your handheld.

At the moment I have a ton of things that I'm going to send off in bulk to Sean Riddle for dumping, so if you're comfortable shipping it over to me, I'll include it in the box of things being sent. Will send you a PM with my address.



MooglyGuy
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Updated again. No stopping for the handheld train! *nt* new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372229 - 12/23/17 02:09 PM





MooglyGuy
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Updated yet again, another $200 in pledges! *nt* new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372235 - 12/23/17 07:10 PM





Rygar9
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Re: Updated yet again, another $200 in pledges! *nt* new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372253 - 12/24/17 12:38 AM


Hey Moogly,

I couldn't really post last night when I PM'd you since I was using my phone, but I wanted to say- Thank you for putting this together. Handhelds are a *really* important and often overlooked part of video gaming history. The work done so far to archive and preserve them has been fantastic, but there's still a lot of ground to cover and this effort you're assembling is a huge and historic piece of work.



Moose
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Re: Saving the History of Handheld Games (aka The Handheld Union) new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372271 - 12/24/17 09:34 AM


> However, I can't do this alone.

And it would not be fair if you did, you already chip in way, way more than your share.

Handheld games are not my cup of tea, but I agree they are an incredibly useful resource.

Put me down for $20 USD.



Moose



gregf
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Re: Saving the History of Handheld Games (aka The Handheld Union) new [Re: Moose]
#372272 - 12/24/17 09:45 AM



>Handheld games are not my cup of tea, but I agree they are an incredibly useful resource.

Oh no. That's blasphemy! You know you want to play Mattel Electronics handheld led football game from the late 1970s like I do. *kidding*


I know one of the folks here will just say: You can play Conic's bootleg version of Football which is supported in MAME at this time.

My response: Conic Football sounds like crap and sounds nowhere near like Mattel Electronics led version of football.


Anyway....cheering on for Konami and Tiger Electronics faithful to see that they have their favorite game emulated. It will be nonstop of Tiger Electronics handheld emulation for next 3 months as I can tell. Sean and hap will be so familiar with that hardware in another month that they will be able to emulate the hardware while literally sound asleep in bed.



Moose
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Re: Saving the History of Handheld Games (aka The Handheld Union) new [Re: gregf]
#372273 - 12/24/17 09:52 AM


Actually, I do have my UFO Master Blaster (mint condition, in box) still on the shelf here.
http://handheldmuseum.com/Bambino/UFO.htm

I saved up my pocket money and purchased this when I was a young chap in the late 1970's.

If this is needed, I would consider donating it to the MAME team for dumping / emulation. (I think it would probably be irrepairable after the chips are de-soldered for dumping - but if the game dies for such a great cause, then that's the best I can hope for).



Moose



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Re: Saving the History of Handheld Games (aka The Handheld Union) new [Re: Moose]
#372275 - 12/24/17 11:06 AM


>Actually, I do have my UFO Master Blaster (mint condition, in box) still on the shelf here.
http://handheldmuseum.com/Bambino/UFO.htm

>I saved up my pocket money and purchased this when I was a young chap in the late 1970's.

>If this is needed, I would consider donating it to the MAME team for dumping / emulation.
>(I think it would probably be irrepairable after the chips are de-soldered for dumping -
>but if the game dies for such a great cause, then that's the best I can hope for).

Already emulated/supported in MAME, so you can try it out in MAME to see how it sounds and plays just like playing actual handheld game back then.

-
http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Bambino/index.html

http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Bambino/UFO.htm


https://github.com/mamedev/mame/blob/master/src/mame/drivers/hh_ucom4.cpp

CONS( 1979, ufombs, 0, 0, ufombs, ufombs, ufombs_state, 0, "Bambino", "UFO Master-Blaster Station", MACHINE_SUPPORTS_SAVE )

-

There are a couple other Bambino brand games still needing to be found. Noted in comments section within the source file https://github.com/mamedev/mame/blob/master/src/mame/drivers/hh_ucom4.cpp



MooglyGuy
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Re: Saving the History of Handheld Games (aka The Handheld Union) new [Re: Moose]
#372281 - 12/24/17 12:51 PM


> > However, I can't do this alone.
>
> And it would not be fair if you did, you already chip in way, way more than your
> share.
>
> Handheld games are not my cup of tea, but I agree they are an incredibly useful
> resource.
>
> Put me down for $20 USD.

All of you who are pledging to help out, you da real MVPs! Thank you for your kind words as well.

I won't have much time to keep the list/total updated over the next 8-10 hours due to Sweden celebrating Christmas on the 24th rather than the 25th, and I'm heading over to my partner's family's place in about half an hour. But rest assured, I've added you to the list of pledges on my laptop at least.

I said it on Twitter and I'll say it here: Whether you're religious or not (I tend not to be), this just reminds me how incredibly blessed we all are, in our own ways.



uman
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Re: Pledge list updated again, huge thanks! HMU if you want me to PM you the auction link. *nt* new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372282 - 12/24/17 01:19 PM


> > Christmas is near.... so count me in for 100 €uros
> >
> > I also would give away my Deputy Den for dumping, if someone of the devs can send
> me
> > a PM, where to send it. I am crying, but what will you do .
>
> Wow! I know we've had our differences, dude, but THANK YOU SO MUCH! Both for the
> auction assistance, and the volunteering of your handheld.
>
> At the moment I have a ton of things that I'm going to send off in bulk to Sean
> Riddle for dumping, so if you're comfortable shipping it over to me, I'll include it
> in the box of things being sent. Will send you a PM with my address.

I would be happy if i can send "Deputy Den" to you, but I cant send it before the 2. January, because of holidays in La Palma/Santa Cruz
I didnt looked into recent MAME releases and i am curious how far artwork development is. Does MAME support more layers now?
Anyway, good luck with the auction.



F1ReB4LL
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Re: Pledge list updated again, huge thanks! HMU if you want me to PM you the auction link. *nt* new [Re: uman]
#372286 - 12/24/17 03:33 PM


> I didnt looked into recent MAME releases and i am curious how far artwork development
> is. Does MAME support more layers now?
> Anyway, good luck with the auction.

That's a nice question, btw, because there are 'Double-Layer' LCD games with, obviously, 2 LCD layers - http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Bandai/MrFranken.htm



John IVModerator
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Re: Saving the History of Handheld Games (aka The Handheld Union) new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372315 - 12/24/17 11:47 PM


Is there a way to get a list of all the handhelds? Are they tagged in any fashion in the XML or have discernable features/chips in them?

Or maybe there's an ini that's cropped up somewhere.



john iv
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MooglyGuy
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I think we've got enough pledges for now to make it! *nt* new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372335 - 12/25/17 12:12 PM





Moose
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Re: Saving the History of Handheld Games (aka The Handheld Union) new [Re: gregf]
#372336 - 12/25/17 12:24 PM


> Already emulated/supported in MAME, so you can try it out in MAME to see how it
> sounds and plays just like playing actual handheld game back then.
> http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Bambino/UFO.htm

Oooohhh, thanks for the heads-up Greg, will check it out soon.



Moose



AntoPISA
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Re: Saving the History of Handheld Games (aka The Handheld Union) new [Re: John IV]
#372352 - 12/25/17 11:28 PM



Quote:


Is there a way to get a list of all the handhelds? Are they tagged in any fashion in the XML or have discernable features/chips in them?
Or maybe there's an ini that's cropped up somewhere.




You can use my "catlist.ini" file, and look for the item "Handheld / Electronic Game".



Site: http://www.progettosnaps.net/
Board: progetto-SNAPS Official Board
Twitter: @progettosnaps



MooglyGuy
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Re: Saving the History of Handheld Games (aka The Handheld Union) new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372394 - 12/27/17 06:00 PM


Just arrived from some earlier auctions: Tandy Pizza, and VTL Pancake:




Sacrilego
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Re: Current pledges new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372468 - 12/29/17 08:36 AM


Quick question, when and where should we send the cash?



MooglyGuy
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Re: Current pledges new [Re: Sacrilego]
#372473 - 12/29/17 12:02 PM


> Quick question, when and where should we send the cash?

The auction doesn't end until the 1st, so I'd like to wait to see if I even win it before asking people to send in their pledges. I've had the high bid for days now, but I fully expect some jackwagon to try to snipe me at the last minute.

So, that pretty much means that I'm going to be staying stone-sober at my friend's New Year's Eve party in order to not be hung over when it comes time to hover over the auction page in its last hours.



MooglyGuy
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A winner is us! new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372627 - 01/01/18 07:24 PM




And now that the auction is over and snipers are no longer a potential factor, here's a link to the auction itself: https://www.tradera.com/item/301854/2984...#view-item-main

Since it ended up going for considerably less than what I was expecting, I'll give the following options to anyone who pledged to assist with funding the auction:

1. You can withdraw your pledge if you'd like. No harm, no foul.
2. You can contribute your pledge to help defray the auction costs anyway.
3. You can contribute your pledge to go towards future handheld purchases instead.
4. You can contribute your pledge to Sean Riddle instead, as fuming nitric acid is not cheap, nor is the amount of physical labor involved in doing decapping.



Moose
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Re: A winner is us! new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372707 - 01/04/18 04:10 AM


> 2. You can contribute your pledge to help defray the auction costs anyway.

Excellent work, I'm in. What's your paypal ?



Moose



MooglyGuy
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Re: A winner is us! new [Re: Moose]
#372718 - 01/04/18 10:34 AM


> > 2. You can contribute your pledge to help defray the auction costs anyway.
>
> Excellent work, I'm in. What's your paypal ?

I'll PM it to you so I'm not posting my e-mail address publicly.



MooglyGuy
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They're heeeeeeeere! new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372729 - 01/04/18 07:37 PM




And just for fun, here's a pic of all the handheld stuff acquired over the past few weeks for dumping:




John IVModerator
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Re: They're heeeeeeeere! new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372734 - 01/04/18 10:05 PM


That's fun to see. Thanks for coordinating the effort Ryan.



john iv
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MooglyGuy
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Are you M. O'Malley? If so, let me know so I can cross you off the list. *nt* new [Re: Moose]
#372860 - 01/08/18 08:28 AM





Moose
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Re: Are you M. O'Malley? If so, let me know so I can cross you off the list. *nt* new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372918 - 01/09/18 11:18 AM


That's me.


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