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jasd
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2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018
#372160 - 12/22/17 04:28 AM


Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone!
2017 is a great year for Mame,2D emulation work almost have done,so what do you expect emulation progress in 2018?



B2K24
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372162 - 12/22/17 04:43 AM


I don't like the words expect or expectations when it comes to the MAME project because it sounds demanding.

Perhaps rephrase it to wishlist or something to that effect.






vram74
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372170 - 12/22/17 05:57 AM


Phil Bennett is fixing CPS speed problems, so that’s something I’m personally happy about

1. I’d like to see HLSL come with some presets that approximate the more popular arcade monitor types.
2. Continued refinement to the built in GUI. Better filtering/customization. For instance, I wish systems weren’t listed in the game list. I want a system category on the left side that I can expand, choose a system and see available/non available games for that system.
3. I really wish refreshspeed was more granular, worked on percentages instead of ratios and could speed the game as well as slow it down. Ideally I wish it would sync the game to whatever monitor it was running through. Yes, I understand this will never happen

Sure as shit, someone’s going to post how to accomplish #2 after I post this



Master O
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372171 - 12/22/17 06:01 AM


> Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone!
> 2017 is a great year for Mame,2D emulation work almost have done,so what do you
> expect emulation progress in 2018?

Any progress on Seibu Cup Soccer would be great, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm also not holding my breath for seeing Konami's "Tobe! Polystars" finally emulated, because Phil's working on other things.

Of course, more chips being decapped would be great, too, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm also definitely and indubitably not holding my breath on ever seeing Variant Schwanzer or Vertexer emulated.

*holds breath, dies from lack of oxygen.* [/sarcasm]



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Envisaged0ne
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372172 - 12/22/17 06:05 AM


There are only three things I wish to see in 2018...

1) Get the SFIII games full emulated without the minor graphical bugs

2) Get MK4 working where you don't see all the graphical bugs during gameplay. Hard to play it in it's current state with missing sprites and "holes" showing up on the characters

3) Either get q*bert sounds working perfectly, or at least return to using the samples!



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Vas Crabb
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372173 - 12/22/17 06:52 AM


I expect:

  • EmuDrama
  • Lots of people complaining that MAME has lost focus
  • Mixture of abuse and praise as more handhelds are added
  • Complaints about things with red warnings not working
  • MAME dropping support for more outdated configurations


Might add to this list as I think of things.



anikom15
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372175 - 12/22/17 07:41 AM


Hopefully I can get a release of my HLSL changes in 2018.

I'm looking forward to improvements to Model 1 and Model 2 games.



Roman
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372177 - 12/22/17 10:11 AM


All laserdisks getting redumped and all missing ones getting added. I want to see my bandwidth melt and a reason to by 10TB hds...


...actually I hope I can enjoy CapsOff's and Haze's informative postings next year as much as I did this year....and Smitty shooting some holy grails



AnimeFan95
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372183 - 12/22/17 01:37 PM


This may be asking for too much but.......attempt to crack the "MagicGate" security dongle so we are able to emulate the Namco System 246 arcade system somewhat....?

I do not expect the emulation speed to be very fast. No, far from that. I understand that the emulation speed will take a very long time to resolve as the Namco System 11/12 systems took a while to emulate properly (again, many thanks for your efforts).

I just would like to be able to see the boot screen and the "Attract Mode" on the arcade system (preferably Soul Calibur 2, Soul Calibur 3, Tekken 4), even if it's slow emulation speed.

I look forward to seeing what MAME can bring in 2018

Many thanks.

Kind regards,
AnimeFan95



Haze
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372188 - 12/22/17 05:47 PM


> Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone!
> 2017 is a great year for Mame,2D emulation work almost have done,so what do you
> expect emulation progress in 2018?

I have a feeling 2018 will be a quiet year (as 2017 was a very busy year, an astonishing number of hardware problems were overcome meaning there was plenty to work on)

the only solid plan I have is to improve the Gameking (handheld) emulation.



John Doe
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372192 - 12/22/17 08:15 PM


> 2D emulation work almost have done,

not even close



Olivier Galibert
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Haze]
#372194 - 12/22/17 09:34 PM


I have a feeling it won't be quiet at all for anyone interested by the internals of Mame though.

OG, cooking things



Roman
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Olivier Galibert]
#372195 - 12/22/17 09:37 PM


yieha...finally a sys16 rewrite...oh wait...no...erm....



Haze
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Olivier Galibert]
#372196 - 12/22/17 09:51 PM


> I have a feeling it won't be quiet at all for anyone interested by the internals of
> Mame though.
>
> OG, cooking things

oh, definitely, I don't doubt that at all, I just think it's going to be a year where more time is spent working on things with future benefit (like said internal changes) than things visible on the outside.

I'm also quietly hoping c-chip gets properly cracked, there are still bubbles of activity with it, and we know in theory we can extract the rom with hardware methods (as we managed to get half of it already, with the missing data possibly just being down to a dodgy socket) it's just a shame the chip clearly locks out software attacks as when I worked on that I thought we'd get the data with ease. It's frustrating that it looks like we're going to have to go with a destructive, expensive and risky method on games that aren't exactly cheap to begin with.



Haze
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Roman]
#372197 - 12/22/17 10:09 PM


> yieha...finally a sys16 rewrite...oh wait...no...erm....

we've got the 2006 Konami rewrite to look forward to instead.

(ultimately it actually took until about a year or 2 ago to actually fix most of the S16 bugs tho, I'm actually surprised that flipscreen, needed by SDI and a number of others, remained broken for so long)



Shoegazr
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372200 - 12/23/17 12:00 AM


Reiterating most of last year's wish list, though based on Haze's comment below I hardly expect any progress to be made on these in 2018:

1) Support for cross-platform rumble/ff effects for systems like the PSX and OutRun, vs. basic output handler support that currently exists

2) Model 2 improvements

3) Votrax/SC-01 improvements

4) QSound decap/emulation

5) More accurate emulation for NES and PCE-CD drivers

6) N64 speed optimizations

7) PSX SPU sound chip improvements

8.) More accurate Cave CV1000B timing

9) Vectrex artwork improvements

10) Promotion of Rygar arcade bezel to "official" artwork from Mr. Do! and artwork team

11) Macintosh Plus/512 speed fixes

So yeah most of these aren't entirely practical but hey, one can dream.

Edited by Shoegazr (12/23/17 12:01 AM)



MooglyGuy
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372203 - 12/23/17 02:32 AM


I expect a whole boatload more LCD handhelds to be emulated. But maybe I'm biased, since I'm currently trying to do a funding drive to obtain about 30 of them, and have bought about another 10 more on my own, separately.



R. Belmont
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: AnimeFan95]
#372208 - 12/23/17 05:04 AM


> This may be asking for too much but.......attempt to crack the "MagicGate" security
> dongle so we are able to emulate the Namco System 246 arcade system somewhat....?

We have the dongle contents for 246/256 and MagicGate isn't an issue, we just lack the entire PlayStation 2 that surrounds them.



R. Belmont
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Haze]
#372209 - 12/23/17 05:26 AM


> I have a feeling 2018 will be a quiet year (as 2017 was a very busy year, an
> astonishing number of hardware problems were overcome meaning there was plenty to
> work on)
>
> the only solid plan I have is to improve the Gameking (handheld) emulation.

Actually, I suspect the big 2018 progress will be on non-arcade systems, although I'd like to see Model 1 and 2 improve at least.



BIOS-D
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372210 - 12/23/17 06:01 AM


So far I'm truly satisfied about MAME, but if I had a wish list (and I'm repeating myself every year) that would be:

- Laserdisc dumping standard settled
- Nichibutsu video mahjong support
- Konami Bemani System 573 Digital MP3 support (the patents are expiring right?)
- Andamiro DOS PC based hardware (MK1 to MK5)
- N-Gage documentation
- Original XBOX emulation (Chihiro apart, as forgotten as the N-Gage by everyone)
- Zeebo support (almost 9 years old by now, probably still too recent)

But I think the most that will probably set before everything I wish could be is:
- Proper dumps of whatever T***oP****t emulate and won't document properly.



Mr. DoAdministrator
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Shoegazr]
#372215 - 12/23/17 07:42 AM



> 10) Promotion of Rygar arcade bezel to "official" artwork from Mr. Do! and artwork
> team

Assuming I get my shit together in the next few days, that'll be 2017.




RELAX and just have fun. Remember, it's all about the games.




jonwil
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372218 - 12/23/17 08:08 AM


Things I hope to see happen in 2018: (none of which are beyond the realms of possibility given how things have been going in 2017)
1.Decapping of the remaining Model 1 DSPs (the ones from Star Wars Arcade/Wing War) to allow proper emulation of Star Wars Arcade. A dump of the English version of SWA would be nice as well but I am not holding my breath on that given how rare that board is...
2.Doing whatever hardware reverse engineering is necessary to improve the CPS1 emulation (boards are/will soon be in the hands of someone who can do that IIRC)
3.Working emulation of the Aristocrat slot machines (although with many venues out there still running these machines there that may impact what the devs decide to allow in MAME)
4.Decapping/dumping/read-out of the SH1 on the Sega Saturn and emulation of its code in MAME.



B2K24
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372223 - 12/23/17 11:50 AM


If MAME could somehow make use of all the shaders included in Analog Shader Pack version 3 without involving RA, I could die a happy man






sz72
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: BIOS-D]
#372227 - 12/23/17 01:29 PM


> - Original XBOX emulation (Chihiro apart, as forgotten as the N-Gage by everyone)

Xbox is already partially emulated, it runs the dashboard and executes programs from the cd.
Don't worry it is not forgotten



BIOS-D
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: sz72]
#372233 - 12/23/17 04:17 PM


> Xbox is already partially emulated, it runs the dashboard and executes programs from
> the cd.
> Don't worry it is not forgotten

I know that. I'm just dead tired of watching yet another glitched Jet Set Radio Future video for over 2 years. It's today's Futurama or Panzer Dragoon Orta.



Haze
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jonwil]
#372234 - 12/23/17 06:12 PM


> 4.Decapping/dumping/read-out of the SH1 on the Sega Saturn and emulation of its code
> in MAME.

The SH1 dump is already in MAME, not used yet, but it's dumped...
https://github.com/mamedev/mame/blob/master/src/mame/machine/saturn_cdb.cpp

Edited by Haze (12/23/17 06:13 PM)



AnimeFan95
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: R. Belmont]
#372236 - 12/23/17 07:28 PM


How do you mean: "lack the entire PlayStation 2 that surrounds them"?

Sorry for being a nuisance...I am just curious...

Many thanks.

Kind regards,
AnimeFan95



MooglyGuy
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: AnimeFan95]
#372237 - 12/23/17 07:37 PM


> How do you mean: "lack the entire PlayStation 2 that surrounds them"?
>
> Sorry for being a nuisance...I am just curious...
>
> Many thanks.

We don't currently emulate the Playstation 2. And that's what Namco System 246/256 is: A Playstation 2.



AnimeFan95
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372238 - 12/23/17 07:39 PM


Oh. I see. Could we expect the Namco System 246 to be emulated in future or is it just too complicated...?

Many thanks.

Kind regards,
AnimeFan95



MooglyGuy
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: AnimeFan95]
#372239 - 12/23/17 08:01 PM


> Oh. I see. Could we expect the Namco System 246 to be emulated in future or is it
> just too complicated...?

Sure, but most likely slowly, as you yourself postulated. It might be possible to offload certain tasks onto GPUs, but it's still a challenging task to emulate complex systems like that at full speed.



Shoegazr
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Mr. Do]
#372250 - 12/23/17 11:11 PM


> > 10) Promotion of Rygar arcade bezel to "official" artwork from Mr. Do! and artwork
> > team
>
> Assuming I get my shit together in the next few days, that'll be 2017.

Wow, what a nice surprise! Thanks, Mr. Do - you're a star.

If I seem obsessed with one bezel it's only because I played it to death in our school student center when I was a kid, and I can still recall every little detail on it. Such a great game, with so many cool secrets, and a really nice bezel and general artwork to boot.



Rygar9
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372254 - 12/24/17 12:43 AM


I'm still holding out hope that laserdiscs get settled and working. I fear we're dangerously close to the point where they disappear forever.



uman
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: anikom15]
#372283 - 12/24/17 01:35 PM


> Hopefully I can get a release of my HLSL changes in 2018.
>
> I'm looking forward to improvements to Model 1 and Model 2 games.

I would rather see new features than improvements in HLSL. Like HDR support, better Vector rendering, etc.
Anyway, cant wait with what you will come up.



AnimeFan95
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372288 - 12/24/17 03:58 PM


I understand. I look forward to seeing this arcade system getting emulated in future

Thanks for replying.

Kind regards,
AnimeFan95



CTOJAH
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372296 - 12/24/17 07:13 PM


I Would like to see :

- Backgammon (What's missing in its driver ? adp.cpp)
- Buriki One (Is there any dev working on Hyper NeoGeo ?)
- Cosmoswat
- Cruis'n Exotica
- Donggul Donggul Haerong (Is dumping a Protection PIC doable ?)
- Funky Ball (I know it's PC based, but anyway...)
- Gals Panic II (I hope that recent Decapping Project will help this game to become playable)
- Gamshara
- Green Beret (from Irem - incomplete dump )
- Gunpey
- Knights of Valour 3
- Magical Tetris Challenge (N64 hardware)
- Operation Tiger (some time ago progress was made...)
- Over Drive
- Panic Road
- Paranoia
- Photo Y2K 2
- Primal Rage 2
- Rebus (Break that protection already )
- Shadow Fighters (it shows signs of life... ...somehow)
- Shooting Star (just wanna see what game is it ?)
- Space Invaders Anniversary (The only NOT WORKING Taito GNet game)
- Strider 2
- Tobe! Polystars (IDK if someone works on M2 emulation ?!)
- Virtual Combat
- Wild Pilot
- Zarya Vostoka
- Zero Target
- Zero Team
... to be promoted to WORKING status.
That's all !



Diet Go Go Fan
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372301 - 12/24/17 07:46 PM


I hope that "Rebus", "Ring & Ball", "Red Corsair", "Intersecti", "Taiwan Chess Legend", "Yori Jori Kukkuk", "IQ Pipe", "Beauty Block", and "Cross Puzzle" will be playable. I also hope that every region hack that can be made, will be made, especially ones for: "Twin Qix - Japan", "TGM - USA", "Puchi Carat - USA", "Cleopatra Fortune - USA", "Battle Balls - Korea", and "Pulirula - USA".



Haze
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Diet Go Go Fan]
#372302 - 12/24/17 07:51 PM


> I hope that "Rebus",
Protected, will probably need extensive testing on PCB, PCB isn't common

"Ring & Ball"
From a dead board, dump incomplete

"Red Corsair"
Board has custom module, likely missing main program code, can't emulate

"Intersecti"
Epoxy block, likely containing program rom, can't emulate

"Taiwan Chess Legend"
Should probably be moved to goldstar.cpp, as it's some variation on those slot machines, but yeah, possible.

"Yori Jori Kukkuk"
maybe Mooglyguy will look at it with the rest of the hyperstone stuff, in theory, easy.

"IQ Pipe", "Beauty Block"
protection makes no sense at all to me.

"Cross Puzzle"
not sure what's going on, even if I hook up the flash rom reads it recognizes the filesystem but then still moans about something, might be there's something on the board with internal rom or providing protection.

will be
> playable. I also hope that every region hack that can be made, will be made,
> especially ones for: "Twin Qix - Japan", "TGM - USA", "Puchi Carat - USA", "Cleopatra
> Fortune - USA", "Battle Balls - Korea", and "Pulirula - USA".

No, that's a stupid idea. Many games don't behave properly if you region hack them (eg I can hack King of Fighters 98 Ultimate Match Hero to Japanese, but half the Japanese content is broken) The only time this gets done is if we know for sure that something exists and are confident enough that the real rom would indeed just be the region byte change.



Haze
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: CTOJAH]
#372303 - 12/24/17 08:04 PM


> - Backgammon (What's missing in its driver ? adp.cpp)

It's a non-video electronic 'arcade' tabletop.. I thought you were all for *stripping* these things out of MAME. The ADP base board is fairly generic and hooks up to various other video / IO boards.

> - Buriki One (Is there any dev working on Hyper NeoGeo ?)

I'm looking at the I/O MCU, but I wouldn't expect to see any driver improvements, it might end up running a bit slower.

> - Cosmoswat

Bad Dump.

> - Cruis'n Exotica

Been worked on this year, who knows.

> - Donggul Donggul Haerong (Is dumping a Protection PIC doable ?)

I actually couldn't crash it last time I tried, in recent builds, just the 2 player mode (interlace mode, with likely ratster interrupt) seems to be failing. Not sure when it improved, still with a broken 2 player mode it needs to retain the NOT WORKING flag.

> - Funky Ball (I know it's PC based, but anyway...)

I'm not sure why there are still texture glitches, it could be the flash roms weren't dumped properly (wrong size, bad roms?) or x86 emulation bugs. The voodoo emulation should be pretty solid at this point, so it's a strange one.

> - Gals Panic II (I hope that recent Decapping Project will help this game to become
> playable)

Not touching it due to AnimalBear spamming about it all the time.

> - Gamshara

System10.

> - Green Beret (from Irem - incomplete dump )

Only one has ever been seen, there was a 2nd possible one, but apparently the owner trashed it because they thought it was just the (worthless) Konami game of the same name. Probably never going to happen, there are probably none left.

> - Gunpey

The compression is annoying.

> - Knights of Valour 3

Might happen this year.

> - Magical Tetris Challenge (N64 hardware)

Protection is annoying, probably encrypted data.

> - Operation Tiger (some time ago progress was made...)

I think chinese spammer put people off working on it.

> - Over Drive

Apparently mostly playable in OG's Konami branch.

> - Panic Road

No idea, somebody else is going to have to take a look at the collisions, I thought it worked until people found a way to break it.

> - Paranoia

It's just a PC-Engine game with external timer circuitry, basically not even a real arcade game, just run it in the PCE driver.

> - Photo Y2K 2

ARM rom needs extracting via exploits, haven't looked for exploits, might not be any.

> - Primal Rage 2

There are some gross hacks to run it anyway.

> - Rebus (Break that protection already )

Study the protection for us already.

> - Shadow Fighters (it shows signs of life... ...somehow)

It's Kyle Hodgetts crap...

> - Shooting Star (just wanna see what game is it ?)

Some kind of ticket / redemption / gambling game where you shoot targets I think (It's an ADP board combined with the art+magic board)

> - Space Invaders Anniversary (The only NOT WORKING Taito GNet game)

It works if you play with the CPU overclocking options.

> - Strider 2

Given it still doesn't work without crashing randomly I suspect it's going to require the entire PSX driver to be replaced as the bug seems to be lurking somewhere strange. Either that or the game is a buggy piece of shit and would reset all the time on hardware due to watchdogs where it hangs in MAME.

> - Tobe! Polystars (IDK if someone works on M2 emulation ?!)

Nobody

> - Virtual Combat

It's more Kyle Hodgetts crap, good luck making anybody care

> - Wild Pilot

This Jaleco hardware is a nightmare

> - Zarya Vostoka

Only the program roms exist, the graphic and audio roms do not. There are 0 copies of this in the world to our knowledge.

> - Zero Target

Possible, don't think there's anything stopping it.

> - Zero Team

Makes annoying use of the COP, just play Zero Team 2000 and be done with it, ZT2000 is the better version anyway. The parent not working amuses me because it causes problems for the annoying people who want to strip all clones.

> ... to be promoted to WORKING status.
> That's all !

You're being greedy, demanding and unrealistic IMHO.



CTOJAH
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Re:Thank You new [Re: Haze]
#372304 - 12/24/17 08:21 PM


- NT -



AJR Hacker
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: CTOJAH]
#372312 - 12/24/17 10:21 PM


> - Backgammon (What's missing in its driver ? adp.cpp)

My recent investigations found that this actually runs on basically the same platform as Mann, oh-Mann. It seems unrelated to the standard adp/Merkur hardware (though the slot machines in stellafr.cpp apparently run on a variation of that).

Both are electronic versions of classic board games with no screens, just a lot of colored lamps and LEDs. They also roll physical dice for each move, which will have to be loosely simulated somehow. Mann, oh-Mann also reads out the result of each toss out loud in German, and that seems to be coming from some controller board that isn't documented at all, let alone dumped.

Here's a good reference video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jbdhQ5f9ZcQ

> - Zero Team

As Haze says, Zero Team 2000 is a working clone of this, and its code is comparable enough that reverse engineering has already helped improve emulation of the original. The problem, like Seibu Cup Soccer, is that it uses COP features that were never really used in any other game. Some of the COP commands aren't used in any of the games, except in some dummied-out routines. Seibu had a habit of creating sophisticated hardware platforms and then underusing their features; for instance, the SPI motherboard has connectors for 3P and 4P inputs, and a few games even seem to be reading them as in Seibu Cup Soccer and Zero Team, though there was never any SPI game that supported more than two players.



Haze
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: AJR Hacker]
#372313 - 12/24/17 10:29 PM



> Both are electronic versions of classic board games with no screens, just a lot of
> colored lamps and LEDs. They also roll physical dice for each move, which will have
> to be loosely simulated somehow. Mann, oh-Mann also reads out the result of each toss
> out loud in German, and that seems to be coming from some controller board that isn't
> documented at all, let alone dumped.
>

there are some UK fruit machines with similar features.

in reality the games typically just read a value back from whatever the hardware is and use that, they're used to give the illusion of real luck, even if it's actually things after the dice roll that really decide if you win or lose.

others do the same with balls and holes (like Pachinko) in a similar way to present a 'random number'



AJR Hacker
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: BIOS-D]
#372324 - 12/25/17 03:48 AM


> - Nichibutsu video mahjong support

I suspect that Seibu's competing DVD mahjong system might actually have an easier route toward working status, though people hadn't even started dumping those until recently and the current dumps may need some do-overs, especially where the DVDs are concerned.

AJR



AJR Hacker
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Haze]
#372325 - 12/25/17 04:18 AM


> "Red Corsair"
> Board has custom module, likely missing main program code, can't emulate

Yes, the main block of Z80 code is missing. I'm annoyed by this, too.

> "IQ Pipe", "Beauty Block"
> protection makes no sense at all to me.

A lot of work has been done towards simulating the protection MCUs on Korean arcade games by SunA and Semicom; I don't think there have been any efforts to decap those so far. With Quiz Punch II, I made the lucky discovery that the MCU code was in an external ROM that had already been dumped. As for these two Korean quasi-bootlegs, I have no clue as to what the protection device could be yet; I hope it's nothing half as evil as a DS5002FP.



Haze
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: AJR Hacker]
#372326 - 12/25/17 04:42 AM


> > "Red Corsair"
> > Board has custom module, likely missing main program code, can't emulate
>
> Yes, the main block of Z80 code is missing. I'm annoyed by this, too.
>
> > "IQ Pipe", "Beauty Block"
> > protection makes no sense at all to me.
>
> A lot of work has been done towards simulating the protection MCUs on Korean arcade
> games by SunA and Semicom; I don't think there have been any efforts to decap those
> so far. With Quiz Punch II, I made the lucky discovery that the MCU code was in an
> external ROM that had already been dumped. As for these two Korean quasi-bootlegs, I
> have no clue as to what the protection device could be yet; I hope it's nothing half
> as evil as a DS5002FP.

They're odd
I can only assume it's ones of the chips near the CPU
http://www.citylan.it/beautyb/PCB%20component%20side.jpg

there's nothing that really stands out as scary on the pcb tho..
http://www.citylan.it/lista.php?id=699



fortuna_chan
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372329 - 12/25/17 09:09 AM


Probably want (and wish a full emulation)

System 16/18 bootlegs full working (Moonwalker, alien storm, D.D. Crew)
CPS1 sound bootlegs
Lots prototypes



Dullaron
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372332 - 12/25/17 10:17 AM


> Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone!
> 2017 is a great year for Mame,2D emulation work almost have done,so what do you
> expect emulation progress in 2018?

Arcade PC Emulator, Android Emulator and Linux Emulator by MAME Dev team. All clean and no hacks included.

I don't think these will happen. Nice try though.

Not talking about using MAME to run those.



Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Intel Core i5-4460 3.20 GHz / 8.00 GB RAM / AMD Radeon R9 200 Series
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Dunard-1884/
https://sites.google.com/site/o0kinghanco0o/mame_building_info (Updated on the 07/18/2017 at 9:49 PM.)



pepinos
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372334 - 12/25/17 11:41 AM


i am expexting the following handheld games to work property in mame in 2018

Casio Astero Zone (1983, LCD, Watch Batteries, Model# CG-31) http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Casio/AsteroZone.htm

Casio Western Bar (1990, LCD, 2 AA Batteries, Model# CG-300) http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Casio/WesternBar.htm

Gakken Circus (19xx, LCD, Watch batteries, Model# ?) http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Gakken/Circus.htm

Casio Heli-Battle (1987, LCD, 2 AA Batteries, Model# CG-370) http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Casio/Heli.htm

ps: the western bar has a bug, whitch is when you meet the final boss is always stuck when you fire at the boss, or hiding in a chair...the same bug unfortunately happens too in the internet color game too



Haze
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: pepinos]
#372339 - 12/25/17 02:43 PM


> ps: the western bar has a bug, whitch is when you meet the final boss is always stuck
> when you fire at the boss, or hiding in a chair...the same bug unfortunately happens
> too in the internet color game too

the same bug will happen in MAME if it gets emulated then, it sounds like it's part of the game...

it's not our job to fix the games, only to emulate them as they were.



kevenz
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372341 - 12/25/17 03:53 PM


Well hopefully a couple of rare games may get dumped in 2018.

We had a lot of obscure one in 2017.



pepinos
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Haze]
#372343 - 12/25/17 05:18 PM


if i am not mistaken all the above games that i have mentioned except the Casio Astero Zone, have already been playable on some cell phones
if anyone has it on his cell phone can he verified for the western bar bug?



Haze
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: pepinos]
#372346 - 12/25/17 06:37 PM


> if i am not mistaken all the above games that i have mentioned except the Casio
> Astero Zone, have already been playable on some cell phones
> if anyone has it on his cell phone can he verified for the western bar bug?

what they do on cell phones is irrelevant, what they do with the original hardware is what matters for MAME emulation.

the cell phone versions are probably recreations, not emulation.



pepinos
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Haze]
#372347 - 12/25/17 07:31 PM


the first emulation of western bar on handheld.remakes was around 2000 up to 2002

either it's part of the game as you mentioned or somehow it can be fix with a some kind of a patch

time will tell

perhaps other handheld games may have too issues just like western bar

when mame will emulate gakken (and other handheld companies)we will see if this issue exist in other games too



Heihachi_73
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Dullaron]
#372356 - 12/26/17 12:38 AM


> Arcade PC Emulator, Android Emulator and Linux Emulator by MAME Dev team. All clean
> and no hacks included.

If someone dumps them "clean and no hacks included" they will be in MAME just like any other machine once submitted.

Of course, emulating a modern CPU in the gigahertz range plus the accompanying 3D video and sound chipsets etc. will be out of the question unless some form of acceleration can happen, as no-one wants to sit for half an hour staring at the POST only to watch the machine fail and crash later on because something else hasn't been hooked up or even emulated yet. Multiply that half an hour by several hundred or thousand attempts at getting the thing just to boot to graphics long enough so the next device can be hooked up, all while the emulation runs slower and slower after every new device has been added and emulated.

I dread to think of emulating anything from the likes of Nvidia, given all the trouble (and years) the Linux groups have had just getting their own reverse engineered video drivers running on real hardware.



Heihachi_73
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jonwil]
#372357 - 12/26/17 01:37 AM


> 3.Working emulation of the Aristocrat slot machines

Assuming you mean the MK5 games, most of the games already work, people just need to clear the memory and follow the setup instructions (or in the case of most of the US games, set appropriate values in the set chips - most people forget to set the lines so the games can't be cleared; a 90 or 200 credit max bet setting works with all games depending on whether they have 9 or 20 lines).

The games which don't work (all of five games) have no external system to communicate with, the rest are bad dumps, of which most of which have working parents or clones, or alternate versions under a different name.

The only thing stopping most games from being considered working by MAME standards is an emulation bug which causes them to hang after around 50 spins, or if you get a hand pay in the older US games. Some games would be considered working but with imperfect video/sound, but for now the entire driver is considered not working. Eventually, the ROMs may be updated to include some basic NVRAM images so that the average MAME person can play them as they would have in the venue - coin up and go (unfortunately, note acceptors are not emulated at all yet).

The venues which are retaining these 20-year-old games are only doing so because they haven't replaced them yet. Some games also haven't been re-released on later hardware so the older versions are sometimes retained for that reason, although in my experience, a gaming machine is replaced with a gaming machine regardless of what the previous one was.

MK6 games are just placeholders for now. The only thing which works is the POST, which runs far enough to verify whether the dumps are good or bad, and then the emulated speed drops to below 1% while my CPU jumps to 100% for ten minutes and I give up trying to run them (I don't think they boot to graphics anyway). The MK6 does not use the same video chipset as the Dreamcast/NAOMI (the MK6 uses the PMX1 aka Neon 250 rather than CLX2) so this could be on the sidelines for years.

As for machines running in venues, anything pre-HD is dead, including the original 4:3 Gen7 games (none of which have been sourced or preserved yet, but the hardware is a late P4-era Celeron-based Linux PC anyway which would be an absolute pain to even think of emulating inside MAME, unless you want to sit for half an hour going through the POST at < 1 frame per second only to watch it crash afterwards, if it even gets as far as passing all the tests).



RdW
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do I hope for 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372373 - 12/26/17 11:42 PM


> Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone!
> 2017 is a great year for Mame,2D emulation work almost have done,so what do you
> expect emulation progress in 2018?
Well I don't expect but would love to see some obscure ROM dumps released by the team japump again.



Renegade
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372379 - 12/27/17 04:08 AM



1) see the remaining gals panic games playable.

2) a mame mpeg player for the laser disc games and playable.

3) a couple of "never gonna happen" encryption break thru`s for good measure.

4) some really cool forgotten/rare prototypes found and dumped.



Only here to annoy...



Haze
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Renegade]
#372381 - 12/27/17 05:48 AM


> 2) a mame mpeg player for the laser disc games and playable.
>

I still don't know why people think preserving things in lossy formats is a good idea.

It wasn't a good idea almost 10 years ago, so it wasn't done back then, and given that hard drive sizes are much bigger now it's even less of a good idea now.

It's worrying that some devs seem too scared to add support for certain ones while the tech just rots away, and I really hope something gets done about them before it's too late (I fear it won't tho) but even the thought of a lossy format being used for archival purposes is horrendous.

Due to the fact the originals are degrading too this is one case where you REALLY don't want to be introducing your own losses and artifacting into the images because it's entirely possible multiple captures from different disks might one day be needed, so the closer the data you have is to a raw untouched capture the better.

I hope they're done, but not in a lossy format, not in a million years. Wasn't that long ago people were saying the same about CDs '128kbps MP3s are fine' and we still have some rare Japanese game ISO rips and prototypes with audio of that 'quality'.



jasd
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372382 - 12/27/17 09:51 AM


I hope Mame can get PGM1 perfect emulation in 2018



F1ReB4LL
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372389 - 12/27/17 03:35 PM


> Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone!
> 2017 is a great year for Mame,2D emulation work almost have done,so what do you
> expect emulation progress in 2018?

Konami Bubble System (certain people get nervous, when someone mentions it here, but still) and at least an attempt to find the working copies and dump the missing battery-backed protection data for the earlier-mentioned Bounty (Orca) and Counter Run (Nihon System/Sega license). As for the completely missing ones, Irem's Battle Bird, Sega/Exa's Megumi Rescue, Coreand/Sega's 119 and the infamous Entertainment Science's Bouncer would be nice to see (yes, I am aware of their rarity). And to see at least some Japanese LCD games added, those are way more playable and way less confusing, compared to the Western ones. http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Yonezawa/LittleBushman.htm -- this one needs to be preserved at least for its cover (take a good look at the nurse).



Roberto Fresca
Cuernito Rules!...
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do I hope for 2018 new [Re: RdW]
#372395 - 12/27/17 06:22 PM


> > Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone!
> > 2017 is a great year for Mame,2D emulation work almost have done,so what do you
> > expect emulation progress in 2018?
> Well I don't expect but would love to see some obscure ROM dumps released by the team
> japump again.

Well... They will release once we pay fortunes adquiring the same hardware.



-- Risen from my grave --



RdW
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Haze]
#372400 - 12/27/17 07:55 PM



> I hope they're done, but not in a lossy format, not in a million years.
Sorry, but analogue to digital is already lossy



Haze
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: RdW]
#372401 - 12/27/17 07:57 PM


> > I hope they're done, but not in a lossy format, not in a million years.
> Sorry, but analogue to digital is already lossy

No excuse to make it worse on purpose.

If anything these are the worst kind of things to try and encode with an mpeg-like codec; brief fast moving scenes, flashing graphics, irregular patterns, lots of jumps from one scene to another, cartoon like-art, interlaced content... all things that MPEG will introduce noticeable artifacts on.

I'm no longer surprised when I see absolutely awful TV broadcasts because somebody took this approach when converting their old tapes to digital formats years ago, it's near criminal how bad some of them are and you know it's what they're broadcasting, not just the station quality, because everything newer on the same channels is much better.

Seriously, people need to do it properly, not act selfishly and think they can save some pennies in the short term. In a few years the sizes we're talking about for these things, even with lossless compression will be as laughable as the capacity of a floppy disk.



MooglyGuy
Renegade MAME Dev
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: RdW]
#372402 - 12/27/17 08:01 PM


> Sorry, but analogue to digital is already lossy

No you're not, you're being a smug, uninformed jackass. And I'm not sorry.



RdW
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372404 - 12/27/17 08:27 PM


> > Sorry, but analogue to digital is already lossy
>
> No you're not, you're being a smug, uninformed jackass. And I'm not sorry.
Mr. Edward Hyde, is it you again? Was about time.



Renegade
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Haze]
#372413 - 12/27/17 11:44 PM


> > > I hope they're done, but not in a lossy format, not in a million years.
> > Sorry, but analogue to digital is already lossy
>
> No excuse to make it worse on purpose.
>
> If anything these are the worst kind of things to try and encode with an mpeg-like
> codec; brief fast moving scenes, flashing graphics, irregular patterns, lots of jumps
> from one scene to another, cartoon like-art, interlaced content... all things that
> MPEG will introduce noticeable artifacts on.
>
> I'm no longer surprised when I see absolutely awful TV broadcasts because somebody
> took this approach when converting their old tapes to digital formats years ago, it's
> near criminal how bad some of them are and you know it's what they're broadcasting,
> not just the station quality, because everything newer on the same channels is much
> better.
>
> Seriously, people need to do it properly, not act selfishly and think they can save
> some pennies in the short term. In a few years the sizes we're talking about for
> these things, even with lossless compression will be as laughable as the capacity of
> a floppy disk.



Is there a technology out there that will do what your looking for? Not being an ass I'm just curious is all.

I agree I think they should be properly saved but I not aware of any thing that could be used to save them properly.



Haze
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Renegade]
#372415 - 12/27/17 11:54 PM


> > > > I hope they're done, but not in a lossy format, not in a million years.
> > > Sorry, but analogue to digital is already lossy
> >
> > No excuse to make it worse on purpose.
> >
> > If anything these are the worst kind of things to try and encode with an mpeg-like
> > codec; brief fast moving scenes, flashing graphics, irregular patterns, lots of
> jumps
> > from one scene to another, cartoon like-art, interlaced content... all things that
> > MPEG will introduce noticeable artifacts on.
> >
> > I'm no longer surprised when I see absolutely awful TV broadcasts because somebody
> > took this approach when converting their old tapes to digital formats years ago,
> it's
> > near criminal how bad some of them are and you know it's what they're broadcasting,
> > not just the station quality, because everything newer on the same channels is much
> > better.
> >
> > Seriously, people need to do it properly, not act selfishly and think they can save
> > some pennies in the short term. In a few years the sizes we're talking about for
> > these things, even with lossless compression will be as laughable as the capacity
> of
> > a floppy disk.
>
>
> Is there a technology out there that will do what your looking for? Not being an ass
> I'm just curious is all.
>
> I agree I think they should be properly saved but I not aware of any thing that
> could be used to save them properly.

well given that the compression is applied after after raw footage is captured anyway what I'm saying doesn't change a thing as far as technology is concerned.



John Doe
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Renegade]
#372416 - 12/28/17 12:39 AM


> I agree I think they should be properly saved but I not aware of any thing that
> could be used to save them properly.

There are people who are hacking laserdisc players and recording the video at the best possible quality. Unfortunately either they aren't interested in releasing anything because they don't want to, or nobody asked them nicely enough and they didn't think to.



John Doe
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do I hope for 2018 new [Re: Roberto Fresca]
#372417 - 12/28/17 12:42 AM


> Well... They will release once we pay fortunes adquiring the same hardware.

That misunderstanding was sorted out already.



sirscotty
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372426 - 12/28/17 06:25 AM


Still holding out hope for the original Crazy Otto. Scott Lawrence did a great job of the various revisions in Misfit Mame, but the true blue set that Steve Golson of GCC almost released a few years ago would be awesome.

Would also like to see the Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Junior and Mario Bros 3-in-1 arcade game emulated. Did Nintendo encrypt this or something? I know we have all three separate games emulated, but I like the multi game cabs like the Ms. Pac-Man/Gallaga, Pac-Man 25th Anniversary and Space Invaders/Qix.

Laser Disc games too. Especially the ones Daphne do not have working like Goal to Go, and NFL Football from Midway.

More discrete logic games. Yes, I know about the Dice Emulator, but would like to see them in Mame with Mr. Do's artwork.

Donkey Kong Remix and Donkey Kong Junior Remix. The developer will not lose sales by releasing the roms. Hell, SELL them to us!! Most emulation people do not own a DK machine to run them on. If you DO own a DK machine, and you want this game, (and trust me, you do!!) buy the kit. It is AWESOME!! Sorry, but I do not have the space in my small condo for a DK machine to play the game.

Maze-Man and Barracuda. Pac-Man bootlegs. The former was mentioned in Ken Uston's book "Mastering Pac-Man". SIL did a pretty good interpretation of what he thought the game MIGHT look like, as only the maze was shown. He described the dots as hearts (already have a bootleg with this), energizers as beer mugs, and ghosts as "Richard Nixon Monsters". Obviously, we do not know if the attract mode was altered, and what the name of the ghosts were (if changed). Barracuda appeared in an issue of Electronic Games magazine. It was the Piranha graphics with the Hangly Man mazes. Again, no clue on if attract mode / monsters names were changed.

Keep the handhelds coming!!! What haven't the Mattel sports games (baseball, football, basketball hockey, soccer) been emulated yet?

I have more, but this is the top of my list.



Haze
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: sirscotty]
#372427 - 12/28/17 07:04 AM


> Still holding out hope for the original Crazy Otto. Scott Lawrence did a great job of
> the various revisions in Misfit Mame, but the true blue set that Steve Golson of GCC
> almost released a few years ago would be awesome.
>

honestly, don't think it can happen.

> Would also like to see the Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Junior and Mario Bros 3-in-1
> arcade game emulated. Did Nintendo encrypt this or something? I know we have all
> three separate games emulated, but I like the multi game cabs like the Ms.
> Pac-Man/Gallaga, Pac-Man 25th Anniversary and Space Invaders/Qix.
>

Afaik it's simply a case of nobody has got hold of one to dump it; unlike the others you mention it never seems to appear for sale. Until then we don't even know what the hardware is, could just be some PC based thing for all we know.

> Laser Disc games too. Especially the ones Daphne do not have working like Goal to Go,
> and NFL Football from Midway.
>

Yeah, a number of people have highlighted the LD stuff as a priority and it *really* needs to be because it will end up being too late otherwise.

> More discrete logic games. Yes, I know about the Dice Emulator, but would like to see
> them in Mame with Mr. Do's artwork.
>

Very limited pool of people who can work on them tho.

> Donkey Kong Remix and Donkey Kong Junior Remix. The developer will not lose sales by
> releasing the roms. Hell, SELL them to us!! Most emulation people do not own a DK
> machine to run them on. If you DO own a DK machine, and you want this game, (and
> trust me, you do!!) buy the kit. It is AWESOME!! Sorry, but I do not have the space
> in my small condo for a DK machine to play the game.
>

MAME would probably support them if they were dumped, they're hacks of somebody else's IP at the end of the day so the person selling them is on poor legal ground anyway. Creative maybe,but they're still basically just unlicensed hacks / bootlegs even when used on the original PCB. Given it's Nintendo I'm surprised they haven't already thrown the book at him for using their trademarks etc.

> Maze-Man and Barracuda. Pac-Man bootlegs. The former was mentioned in Ken Uston's
> book "Mastering Pac-Man". SIL did a pretty good interpretation of what he thought the
> game MIGHT look like, as only the maze was shown. He described the dots as hearts
> (already have a bootleg with this), energizers as beer mugs, and ghosts as "Richard
> Nixon Monsters". Obviously, we do not know if the attract mode was altered, and what
> the name of the ghosts were (if changed). Barracuda appeared in an issue of
> Electronic Games magazine. It was the Piranha graphics with the Hangly Man mazes.
> Again, no clue on if attract mode / monsters names were changed.
>

There are hundreds of pacman hacks out there, it's possible sometimes these magazines ended up seeing the only copy of one that ever actually existed.

> Keep the handhelds coming!!! What haven't the Mattel sports games (baseball,
> football, basketball hockey, soccer) been emulated yet?
>

Bar some catastrophe I'm sure we'll see more next year. As for the Mattel ones, I don't know.


> I have more, but this is the top of my list.



sirscotty
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Haze]
#372428 - 12/28/17 08:01 AM


> > Still holding out hope for the original Crazy Otto. Scott Lawrence did a great job
> of
> > the various revisions in Misfit Mame, but the true blue set that Steve Golson of
> GCC
> > almost released a few years ago would be awesome.
> >
>
> honestly, don't think it can happen.
>

I talked to Steve a few years ago at ReplayFX / Kong Off in Pittsburgh, and yeah, sadly, it will probably never happen.



RaMDaY
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372431 - 12/28/17 03:03 PM


This is the year we get Bouncer, I can feel it. I would also love to see Sega model 2 games playable in MAME.



DarthMarino
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: jasd]
#372433 - 12/28/17 04:21 PM


Based on recent developments, this would be my wish list of games promoted to working:

Cruis'n Exotica
The Grid
Midway Skins Game
Rush 2049 ("The Rock" was a nice Xmas gift this year)
Star Wars Arcade (it practically is at this point)



CTOJAH
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: sirscotty]
#372434 - 12/28/17 05:46 PM


> I talked to Steve a few years ago at ReplayFX / Kong Off in Pittsburgh, and yeah,
> sadly, it will probably never happen.

In short, what's the story behind this ? Why not releasing this simple arcade game, when thousand of others is already released ?
In other words :
- What made this game so special ?

P.S. And Marble Man, too ?



Haze
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: CTOJAH]
#372436 - 12/28/17 06:49 PM


> > I talked to Steve a few years ago at ReplayFX / Kong Off in Pittsburgh, and yeah,
> > sadly, it will probably never happen.
>
> In short, what's the story behind this ? Why not releasing this simple arcade game,
> when thousand of others is already released ?
> In other words :
> - What made this game so special ?
>

Namco own it, Namco know who has the only copy...

> P.S. And Marble Man, too ?

Atari own it, Atari know who has the only copy...



StilettoAdministrator
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: CTOJAH]
#372437 - 12/28/17 06:59 PM


> In short, what's the story behind this ? Why not releasing this simple arcade game,
> when thousand of others is already released ?
> In other words :
> - What made this game so special ?

Beyond it being a prototype that was never released? Lawsuits between his company, Midway, and Namco. His company may be prohibited from releasing it under the terms of their settlement, no one really knows exactly how that all worked out. But he's probably just not inclined. Namco owns their prototype though, so they'd know who'd released it should it happen.

> P.S. And Marble Man, too ?

Because the guy who managed to cut a deal with the former employees who had the ROMs swore he wouldn't release it. And still might have, but then the Internet gave him a really hard time when they found out about it, so he holds a grudge about it, though he's contributed other things that he has. It's unfortunate how that all worked out. Atari knows he owns it, too, so they'd know who'd released it should it happen.

- Stiletto



Heihachi_73
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: sirscotty]
#372441 - 12/28/17 09:28 PM


> More discrete logic games. Yes, I know about the Dice Emulator, but would like to see
> them in Mame with Mr. Do's artwork.

Speaking of discrete logic and artwork, the original Magnavox Odyssey would technically be possible these days under MAME with a lot of dedication (and of course two players!)



gregf
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: sirscotty]
#372457 - 12/29/17 02:11 AM





>More discrete logic games. Yes, I know about the Dice Emulator, but would like to see
>them in Mame with Mr. Do's artwork.

Fortunately more romsets from some of the non-cpu video game pcbs have been dumped/documented and are now supported in MAME. It was good that last round of couriersud's updates included interfacing roms and proms support into the net list code. That was a major hurdle imo.


-
DU: Keep it discrete
06/22/17

http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1


MAME 0.190
09/27/17

http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1

Cisco/Fisco 400 [TTL] [Andrew Welburn]
Gran Trak 10/Trak 10/Formula K [TTL] [Mike Salay]
Gran Trak 20/Trak 20/Twin Racer [TTL] [Ed Fries]
Le Mans [TTL] [teeray]
Qwak!/Quack [TTL] [Ed Fries]

Robot Hunting (bootleg of Death Race) [TTL] [f205v, Any]

Fixed ROM size for Tank (atarittl.cpp) based on recent verification dump. [Ed Fries]
--


The other thing I hope can happen latter is getting support for color version of Atari Gotcha. Read Ed's article for details.

--
https://edfries.wordpress.com/2016/05/25/fixing-color-gotcha/

video clip of color version of Atari Gotcha set up actually running from a pcb setup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFkUgivTsWI
--


>Keep the handhelds coming!!! What haven't the Mattel sports games (baseball, football,
>basketball hockey, soccer) been emulated yet?

From Sean's January 2017 post

-
seanriddle

http://forums.bannister.org//ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=108486#Post108486


#108486 - 01/18/17 07:23 PM

I'm frustrated- I just got off the phone with the USPTO, trying to find another patent wrapper, but it seems they misplaced it. It's for patent 4165159, and it looks like the wrapper includes the Rockwell PPS-4/1 Hardware Manual and the Rockwell PPS-4/1 Microprocessor Programming Manual. But the file wrapper isn't in their system, so I can't order it. The only possibility that they offered is that maybe it was incorporated into another patent, but I can't find any that reference it, so I'm stuck.
--


Without that, nothing more happening with Mattel Electronics led handheld games.

As for now, since lcd games are on a roll, it will be that way for a while.



gregf
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"Fake news" new [Re: Stiletto]
#372459 - 12/29/17 02:47 AM


>P.S. And Marble Man, too?


>Because the guy who managed to cut a deal with the former employees who had the ROMs swore
>he wouldn't release it. And still might have, but then the Internet gave him a really hard
>time when they found out about it, so he holds a grudge about it, though he's contributed
>other things that he has. It's unfortunate how that all worked out.

"FAKE NEWS" says the "Cheeto"-lini sob in office one more time before Mueller's future unsealed indictments take him out.

Delusional statement in his demented mind: "I shall make roms available. They will be BIGGER, BOLDER, and MORE BEAUTIFUL than ever before. They will be BIGLY."


https://i.imgflip.com/1yljce.jpg






>Atari knows he owns it, too, so they'd know who'd released it should it happen.

I am not sure Atari would know or care at this point. If it is not a game play product that does 3D gaming, the 2D stuff is a money loser. The retro packs that were marketed in 1990s till 2010, would have been their marketing target and we are past that point.

Maybe it will fall off of a turnip truck and someone will come along and somehow grab parts and pieces of the fallen cab and somehow roms will survive and be dumped and somehow magically make their way into MAME by unknown helpful elfs (unlike the munchkin elf AG of US...former senator from AL).



gregf
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Re: 2017 surprises, predictions in 2018 and own wishlist new [Re: jasd]
#372460 - 12/29/17 04:25 AM



Items I was surprised or didn't believe would happen in 2017.

Luca Elia improving Jockey Club II and the CES StarPak series, with help from game designer Keith M. Kolmos, to where only StarPak 1 needs to be found if possible. Kale imroving lots of games in various ways such as Stern's Mazer Blazer and Great Guns, getting audio and mcu simulation going for some of the Taito games. SailorSat improving emulation of Sega's N-Sub and of course the internal rom backup work from contributors that got the Gaelco games preserved and Laser Battle emulated and the PGM2 hardware as well. ShouTime finding various games and prototypes for 2017. And significant improvements by AJR for the DECO cassette updates and additions of clone sets that show regional variation during game play.


--
http://www.lucaelia.com/mame.php

http://www.lucaelia.com/mame.php/2017/Jockey-Club-II

http://www.lucaelia.com/mame.php/2017/The-Last-StarPak-A-Tale-Of-Rare-Cartridges

Keith M. Kolmos development files for the only remaining undumped cartridge, StarPak 4.

https://mamedev.emulab.it/undumped/index.php?title=Starpak_1


https://mamedev.emulab.it/kale/
--



For 2018 predictions:

Atari Cyberstorm being officially supported. ;-)

Lots more Aristocrat games being supported and Robbie also getting more various gambling games supported as well.

Non stop emulation of LCD games that will rival in numbers emulated along the scope of numerous Neo Geo hardware titles that were emulated over the many years. *kidding*

ShouTime still finding hard-to-find games in 2018.

Users still pleading for Votrax speech emulation to temporarily revert to external audio samples.


For own wishlist:

Net list emulation work of any type or even more roms being dumped from non-cpu videogame pcbs and making way into MAME source....including a particular PSE game that Stiletto and I thought would never be found. ;-)

Crosses fingers for improved Votrax speech emulation.

Arcadia Rockford somehow being found along with any other hard-to-find 1970s or 1980s era games. More PEPlus games being found and supported.

Patent paperwork for chips that ran Mattel Electronics led games being found in order to reverse engineer the hardware and with that....Mattel Electronics led Football happening.

Support for the original 1970s era Gremlin wall games such as Trap Shoot.

And somehow of Konami Sys 573 hardware with Drum Mania finally playable in MAME. If Twinkle hardware emulation happened, gotta be hope for Drum Mania.



jonwil
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Re: 2017 surprises, predictions in 2018 and own wishlist new [Re: gregf]
#372474 - 12/29/17 12:40 PM


Working S573 support would be great. Bonus points if someone can find a way to use the various controllers that go with Rock Band and Guitar Hero and etc with MAME
Then again, the song selection on the Guitar Freaks games is probably so crap you are better off playing Frets on Fire (if you dont have a console to play Guitar Hero/Rock Band on) instead and playing all the good songs instead



John Doe
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Re: "Fake news" new [Re: gregf]
#372476 - 12/29/17 02:06 PM


> I am not sure Atari would know or care at this point.

They may not, the IRS might not care too much either.

I believe it was common to write off cancelled video games against your taxes, as long as you absolutely destroyed everything.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: "Fake news" new [Re: John Doe]
#372477 - 12/29/17 02:57 PM


People will continue the bullshit story FOREVER. But why? 16 years and they're holding hope that if we pretend to believe the story he will come around and release the dump. It's madness.

He won't release the roms because then it would no longer draw crowds to calx or be worth 40K. Hardly anyone would care to play it anymore and it would drop in value. Nothing changed in 16 years. I told people they were full of shit then and they're loaded with it now.



Haze
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Re: "Fake news" new [Re: Smitdogg]
#372480 - 12/29/17 03:54 PM


> People will continue the bullshit story FOREVER. But why? 16 years and they're
> holding hope that if we pretend to believe the story he will come around and release
> the dump. It's madness.
>
> He won't release the roms because then it would no longer draw crowds to calx or be
> worth 40K. Hardly anyone would care to play it anymore and it would drop in value.
> Nothing changed in 16 years. I told people they were full of shit then and they're
> loaded with it now.

At this point I'd be surprised if there's anybody who wants to play it, who is willing to go to events where it sometimes appears that hasn't already played it. There are other far more interesting / significant / worth playing things at these shows than a failed prototype that looks and apparently plays like somebody in Korea saw the original and thought 'hey we can do that too!' Heck, if you really want Marble Madness without any analog controls just play one of the home games based around the same theme. It's not even the most interesting of the Atari prototypes that are unreleased.

So honestly I'm not sure how much of an excuse it is at all, it might just be the legitimate reason.

But yes, lots of people make excuses for not dumping things all the time, because they think it will devalue their collection, or they want to be the only one who can play it, or they think it will see an ever increasingly unlikely official release or re-release and don't want to upset somebody.

The 'not allowed to release' reason is actually one of the more legitimate ones, especially if you've already had direct contact with the developer. I know for a fact there are other people in that position too.

A more stupid situation is Danger Express, for which support was added to MAME, the roms were posted on a few forums, then the whole thing withdrawn because somebody here complained about it, and said that unless it was taken out we wouldn't see anything in the future (I don't think said person has provided anything since anyway) Apparently the internet *does* have an undo button tho, because it's basically impossible to find now.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: "Fake news" new [Re: Haze]
#372481 - 12/29/17 04:07 PM


It's pretty simple stuff. We've never seen anyone sued over a dump of a prototype and you could trace who dumped the hundreds in mame. Not even a single C&D letter. Anyone who really believes that Atari and the (the goddamn IRS lol) would want to sue specifically just over a 30 year old shit video game prototype that wasn't burned is retarded. If you believe it we'll get you in the special olympics for programmers.



Haze
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Re: "Fake news" new [Re: Smitdogg]
#372482 - 12/29/17 04:24 PM


> It's pretty simple stuff. We've never seen anyone sued over a dump of a prototype and
> you could trace who dumped the hundreds in mame. Not even a single C&D letter. Anyone
> who really believes that Atari and the (the goddamn IRS lol) would want to sue
> specifically just over a 30 year old shit video game prototype that wasn't burned is
> retarded. If you believe it we'll get you in the special olympics for programmers.

Given some of the contacts you have, and the stories they've told I'm actually kinda surprised you're saying this, unless they haven't actually told you the same stories.

Although no, in general, I don't think anybody has ever been sued for dumping a rom. There have however been some very stern warnings about not releasing them to say the least, so the potential is there.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: "Fake news" new [Re: Haze]
#372483 - 12/29/17 04:29 PM


I was talking about prototype games in the United States. If you want to bring in all games (not the prototype / tax write off) and Japan (which might as well be a different planet) sending a C&D then you break the conversation by jumping out of the scope of the argument.

But nobody has been sued over a prototype rom dump. Nobody has probably been sued over any dump ever.



eientei95
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: Diet Go Go Fan]
#372484 - 12/29/17 04:33 PM


> I also hope that every region hack that can be made, will be made, especially ones for:

>"Twin Qix - Japan"
Already exists as part of Pugsy's Cheats pack

>"TGM - USA"
Trivial to make (last word in countryrom) but no reason to as the game is in English.

>"Puchi Carat - USA"
There's already an overseas version dumped and as parent.

>"Cleopatra Fortune - USA"
Again, already exists as part of Pugsy's Cheats pack

>"Battle Balls - Korea"
No. Checksum is present so region hacking Seibu SPI hardware games is non-trivial.

>"Pulirula - USA"
Parent is World version.

The major question regarding your list is... why?



Haze
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Re: "Fake news" new [Re: Smitdogg]
#372486 - 12/29/17 05:31 PM


> I was talking about prototype games in the United States. If you want to bring in all
> games (not the prototype / tax write off) and Japan (which might as well be a
> different planet) sending a C&D then you break the conversation by jumping out of the
> scope of the argument.
>
> But nobody has been sued over a prototype rom dump. Nobody has probably been sued
> over any dump ever.

Well every situation is different.

You saw the speed at which Danger Express was retracted and all traces of the ROM ever being posted vanished from the internet (even sites that wouldn't usually remove files/posts) and removed from the MAME source code. That was strange even for me to see, there must have been more to that than the forum post saying "please don't, or you won't get anything else" Either that or sites were strangely cooperative or just blindly followed it being removed from MAME.

Mamedev STILL won't add the Dragon's Lair CHD either, for fear of legal action apparently.

and I hear some people won't dump the NGDev Team stuff for similar reasons / excuses (even if they've said / done nothing about Last Hope being dumped, or their DC stuff being dumped) (if anything only having Last Hope dumped is about the most damaging thing that could happen to their reputation to be honest, it's an absolutely terrible game that only gets ridiculed)

everybody has their own reasons, either genuine or completely made up in their own head...



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: "Fake news" new [Re: Haze]
#372487 - 12/29/17 05:36 PM


But I'm not calling bullshit on every situation, I'm just calling bullshit on Atari and the IRS possibly suing over Marble Man roms being added to mame. It's an asinine made up lie to get people off his back and if I'm sure he made that up then I question everything he says about not releasing roms.

What are you saying about Danger Express? I might have missed some info. It just looked like someone bought the pcb wants to hoard it.



Haze
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Re: "Fake news" new [Re: Smitdogg]
#372488 - 12/29/17 05:39 PM


> But I'm not calling bullshit on every situation, I'm just calling bullshit on Atari
> and the IRS possibly suing over Marble Man roms being added to mame. It's an asinine
> made up lie to get people off his back and if I'm sure he made that up then I
> question everything he says about not releasing roms.
>
> What are you saying about Danger Express? I might have missed some info. It just
> looked like someone bought the pcb wants to hoard it.

Danger Express was dumped, added to MAME by Phil B and then somebody random person posted here saying "hey, that's mine, it wasn't meant to be shared, don't add that or you won't see anything else"

At which point the driver vanished, the roms vanished (from at least one public site, and Mamedev) and the whole thing was buried. (and even Phil pretty much stopped contributing anything for a while, not sure if he was bummed out by the whole thing or it was coincidence)

As far as I know that person hasn't actually provided anything else anyway.

It all seemed a bit extreme considering it was off the back of a forum post so there must be more to that.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: "Fake news" new [Re: Haze]
#372489 - 12/29/17 06:09 PM


I think it's just a hoarded game where the "owner" (lol) sent the dump to a mamedev, I guess to check if the dump is good, doesn't matter the reason, and requested that it not be added to mame. A couple of years later the mamedev tried to add it and see if the "owner" had left the scene or no longer cared.

I'm sure it had nothing to do with Phil's break.

The guy is never going to get anything else and he's never going to be worth 1% of what Shoutime can do as far as protos so there's no reason to keep the guy "on our side" which he already isn't.

Well I guess the one reason would be if it was added maybe other people who want to do this sort of shitbag situation wouldn't feel their wishes could be trusted. It's a bunch of stupid shit and I'm tired of talking about it now.



B2K24
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Re: "Fake news" new [Re: Haze]
#372503 - 12/29/17 11:12 PM


I remember what Haze is talking about and even had the chance to download the roms. For some reason I didn't do it at the time and something came up in RL pulling me away from the PC.
When I returned all traces were gone just like he'd described. Wish I would've archived it now at the very least :P

Jordan is miffed



CTOJAH
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Re: 2017 surprises, predictions in 2018 and own wishlist new [Re: gregf]
#372504 - 12/29/17 11:38 PM


> For 2018 predictions:
>
> Atari Cyberstorm being officially supported. ;-)

It IS already in MAME



source



RdW
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Re: 2017 is almost over what do you expect in 2018 new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#372506 - 12/30/17 06:26 AM


> > Sorry, but analogue to digital is already lossy
>
> No you're not, you're being a smug, uninformed jackass. And I'm not sorry.

Please give an example of a quantizer with an qantization error of *exact* zero



Comboman
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Re: 2017 surprises, predictions in 2018 and own wishlist new [Re: gregf]
#372514 - 12/30/17 05:27 PM


Have you given up on Wild Gunman?



gregf
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Re: 2017 surprises, predictions in 2018 and own wishlist new [Re: jonwil]
#372546 - 12/30/17 11:51 PM




>Then again, the song selection on the Guitar Freaks games is probably so crap you are
>better off playing Frets on Fire

The audience boos sound effect from Guitar Freaks is awesome. When first soCal MAME meet took place back in 2003 (Mr. Do, Karasu, myself), Karasu and I were laughing when hearing that sound effect when players can't play a guitar lick. (I only do drums myself). One of the reasons why I am hoping that any version of Drum Mania can be working sometime later.



gregf
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Re: 2017 surprises, predictions in 2018 and own wishlist new [Re: CTOJAH]
#372549 - 12/31/17 12:06 AM



>> For 2018 predictions:
>> Atari Cyberstorm being officially supported.

>It IS already in MAME

As for being source and also shown on Haze's blog, true being 2017.....but if going by what had been mentioned some time in the past, it isn't considered official until it is mentioned in a release and unfortunately Cyberstorm didn't get in .193 Next release not happening until next month means officially in MAME in 2018. That's what I recall when explained of what is in officially or not when releases take place. That was 4 or 5 years ago so maybe the notion of what is official or not official has changed since then.



gregf
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Re: 2017 surprises, predictions in 2018 and own wishlist new [Re: Comboman]
#372550 - 12/31/17 12:10 AM


>Have you given up on Wild Gunman?

Not yet, but just trying to settle for possible stuff for now. Konami Drum Mania working in 2018 would be a nice thing. I was surprised seeing Konami Twinkle hardware in working state in .193



How Twinkle hardware working came about.

http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1


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