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SmitdoggAdministrator
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DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001
#364286 - 03/15/17 11:20 PM Attachment: cap.jpg 63 KB (1 downloads)




Thanks to donations we got a newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001. It is the GDL-0008 version. The one currently in MAME is GDL-0007A.



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Haze
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smitdogg]
#364290 - 03/16/17 01:30 AM


> Thanks to donations we got a newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting
> 2001. It is the GDL-0008 version. The one currently in MAME is GDL-0007A.

Thats.. interesting. Wonder why it needed a whole new number instead of just being a revision. Different regions supported maybe?

By assigning it a brand new number they're essentially declaring it a different product, not a swap in / swap out bugfix.

Note, the disc calls it 'Mark of the Millennium' instead of 'Millionaire Fighting' like the 0007A disc so it's possible an alt title for a different market rather than a newer revision, it might even be an older revision if GDL-0007 and GDL-0008 were released at the same time. Assuming the PS2 naming scheme applies this is probably the official export version.



Vas Crabb
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Haze]
#364291 - 03/16/17 01:39 AM


> Note, the disc calls it 'Mark of the Millennium' instead of 'Millionaire Fighting'
> like the 0007A disc so it's possible an alt title for a different market rather than
> a newer revision, it might even be an older revision if GDL-0007 and GDL-0008 were
> released at the same time. Assuming the PS2 naming scheme applies this is probably
> the official export version.

Millionaire Fighting was the title used in Japan while Mark of the Millennium was used in some export markets, so it's possible it's a "modified for export" version.



Smoker1
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smitdogg]
#364293 - 03/16/17 02:00 AM


Cant wait till it is able to run fully. Not to mention getting SFIV in MAME and getting that running Playable



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Haze
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smoker1]
#364295 - 03/16/17 02:13 AM


> Cant wait till it is able to run fully. Not to mention getting SFIV in MAME and
> getting that running Playable

you and me will both likely be dead before that happens, if it ever happens. SFIV runs on a full blown modern PC, I can't see MAME emulating that at playable speeds even given 100 years.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Haze]
#364297 - 03/16/17 02:25 AM


MAME would have to adapt to use the PC's CPU as the game's CPU for games like this or else it's some sort of digital masochism.



Haze
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smitdogg]
#364299 - 03/16/17 02:30 AM


> MAME would have to adapt to use the PC's CPU as the game's CPU for games like this or
> else it's some sort of digital masochism.

not really that simple tho as while it's x86 / x64 the CPU in your PC has at the very least significantly different timing characteristics, furthermore the CPU is only a fraction of what needs emulating. If you think getting the timings right on something like the Cave SH3 based games is hard, then imagine a case where they're completely different simply based on the PC you're using or what else is running in the background.

'just use the host CPU' really doesn't fit into the MAME architecture at all, and I can't see it ever fitting, it's just too different, hence why I doubt MAME will run those modern PC based games even given 100 years.

you could say "it's MAME, they'll find a way" but there are real limits to what can be done before it isn't really emulation at all.



B2K24
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Haze]
#364302 - 03/16/17 03:53 AM


SFIV

I'll die happy if the older Sega Arcade stuff can finally run in MAME






Smoker1
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smitdogg]
#364312 - 03/16/17 07:42 AM


Actually, I saw on Ebay someone was Selling this, but I did not see the GD-Rom, but it did have a HDD and a USB Drive on it. Is it possible the Game might need to be Written like the CPS3 Games need when being run 1st time?



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Nomax
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Haze]
#364313 - 03/16/17 11:26 AM


> > Thanks to donations we got a newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire
> Fighting
> > 2001. It is the GDL-0008 version. The one currently in MAME is GDL-0007A.
>
> Thats.. interesting. Wonder why it needed a whole new number instead of just being a
> revision. Different regions supported maybe?
>
> By assigning it a brand new number they're essentially declaring it a different
> product, not a swap in / swap out bugfix.
>
> Note, the disc calls it 'Mark of the Millennium' instead of 'Millionaire Fighting'
> like the 0007A disc so it's possible an alt title for a different market rather than
> a newer revision, it might even be an older revision if GDL-0007 and GDL-0008 were
> released at the same time. Assuming the PS2 naming scheme applies this is probably
> the official export version.

We'll have to check the build date given on boot screen to see if it's a newer revision or just the same for another region.



--------------------
NPlayers.ini - The multiplayer description file for MAME. (Linux user #448789)



Nomax
Ryo Hazuki
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smoker1]
#364315 - 03/16/17 11:39 AM


> Actually, I saw on Ebay someone was Selling this, but I did not see the GD-Rom, but
> it did have a HDD and a USB Drive on it. Is it possible the Game might need to be
> Written like the CPS3 Games need when being run 1st time?

Are you talking about Capcom vs. SNK 2 or Street Fighter IV?

Capcom vs. SNK 2 was only sold as a GD-ROM with a security dongle (a ROM chip). The first time the game is run, all GD-ROM content is copied into the NAOMI's DIMM board RAM. The machine restarts itself, checks if the data is correct and runs the game from memory. That memory is battery powered but it has to reload the game from the disc if you leave the cabinet powered off for several days.

Street Fighter IV was sold as a hard disk with a security dongle (USB key). No install disc exists. The full operating system (Windows XP Embedded) and game are present on the hard disk and are run from there by the Type X2 system.



--------------------
NPlayers.ini - The multiplayer description file for MAME. (Linux user #448789)



Ice Cream
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: B2K24]
#364319 - 03/16/17 03:08 PM


> SFIV
>
> I'll die happy if the older Sega Arcade stuff can finally run in MAME

It seems people forget about the illegal emulation of TaitoX and NesicaxLive. It's the same thing.
And SFIV.



vram74
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Haze]
#364321 - 03/16/17 05:25 PM


> > MAME would have to adapt to use the PC's CPU as the game's CPU for games like this
> or
> > else it's some sort of digital masochism.
>
> not really that simple tho as while it's x86 / x64 the CPU in your PC has at the very
> least significantly different timing characteristics, furthermore the CPU is only a
> fraction of what needs emulating. If you think getting the timings right on something
> like the Cave SH3 based games is hard, then imagine a case where they're completely
> different simply based on the PC you're using or what else is running in the
> background.
>
> 'just use the host CPU' really doesn't fit into the MAME architecture at all, and I
> can't see it ever fitting, it's just too different, hence why I doubt MAME will run
> those modern PC based games even given 100 years.
>
> you could say "it's MAME, they'll find a way" but there are real limits to what can
> be done before it isn't really emulation at all.


How much horsepower would it require to get Naomi/2 and DC playable at full speed in MAME?



Smoker1
MAME Fan
Reged: 01/24/10
Posts: 115
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Nomax]
#364325 - 03/16/17 10:52 PM


> > Actually, I saw on Ebay someone was Selling this, but I did not see the GD-Rom, but
> > it did have a HDD and a USB Drive on it. Is it possible the Game might need to be
> > Written like the CPS3 Games need when being run 1st time?
>
> Are you talking about Capcom vs. SNK 2 or Street Fighter IV?
>
> Capcom vs. SNK 2 was only sold as a GD-ROM with a security dongle (a ROM chip). The
> first time the game is run, all GD-ROM content is copied into the NAOMI's DIMM board
> RAM. The machine restarts itself, checks if the data is correct and runs the game
> from memory. That memory is battery powered but it has to reload the game from the
> disc if you leave the cabinet powered off for several days.
>
> Street Fighter IV was sold as a hard disk with a security dongle (USB key). No
> install disc exists. The full operating system (Windows XP Embedded) and game are
> present on the hard disk and are run from there by the Type X2 system.

SFIV
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taito-Type-X2-RO...e-/162142539416
Cap VS SNK 2
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Capcom-VS-SNK-Vi...IEAAOSw3v5YtCIh



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Nomax
Ryo Hazuki
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Posts: 401
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smoker1]
#364327 - 03/17/17 12:03 AM


> > > Actually, I saw on Ebay someone was Selling this, but I did not see the GD-Rom,
> but
> > > it did have a HDD and a USB Drive on it. Is it possible the Game might need to be
> > > Written like the CPS3 Games need when being run 1st time?
> >
> > Are you talking about Capcom vs. SNK 2 or Street Fighter IV?
> >
> > Capcom vs. SNK 2 was only sold as a GD-ROM with a security dongle (a ROM chip). The
> > first time the game is run, all GD-ROM content is copied into the NAOMI's DIMM
> board
> > RAM. The machine restarts itself, checks if the data is correct and runs the game
> > from memory. That memory is battery powered but it has to reload the game from the
> > disc if you leave the cabinet powered off for several days.
> >
> > Street Fighter IV was sold as a hard disk with a security dongle (USB key). No
> > install disc exists. The full operating system (Windows XP Embedded) and game are
> > present on the hard disk and are run from there by the Type X2 system.
>
> SFIV
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taito-Type-X2-RO...e-/162142539416
> Cap VS SNK 2
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Capcom-VS-SNK-Vi...IEAAOSw3v5YtCIh

That's what I wrote above, first link is a Super Street Fighter IV hard disk (the HD is under the metal plate).
Second link is a cartridge of Capcom vs. SNK, not Capcom vs. SNK 2. Capcom vs. SNK 2 was released as GD-ROM only.

I have all these games as originals in my collection (the SFIV version I have is Super Street Fighter IV Arcade Edition Ver. 2012, I have 2 of them since you need to link 2 systems to have 2-player gameplay. It was pretty expensive back in the days).



--------------------
NPlayers.ini - The multiplayer description file for MAME. (Linux user #448789)



MetalliC
Demul team
Reged: 03/20/09
Posts: 127
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Nomax]
#364328 - 03/17/17 12:40 AM


> We'll have to check the build date given on boot screen to see if it's a newer
> revision or just the same for another region.

will see soon, I hope the game itself will be somehow different.

in general - I suspect there was made not small number of regional NAOMI game releases, on cartridges, but we don't know they exists because cartridges looks all the same.
so if there is chance - please check BIOS ROM test sums and compare with already preserved set(s).



Smoker1
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Nomax]
#364336 - 03/17/17 04:30 AM


Actually, am wondering something: Is the Taito Type X2 Loader a Emulator like MAME at all? Works perfectly fine under my PC and works unbelievably fine on my GPD Win. SSFIV:AE runs no problem and the Device doesnt get that warm. But SFIV 1.0 does seem to run a little slow. About 75-80%, but the Game locks up on you when it gets into the Attract Video.Though I think the Loaders I have are 2 completely different ones.



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Haze
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smoker1]
#364337 - 03/17/17 04:39 AM


> Actually, am wondering something: Is the Taito Type X2 Loader a Emulator like MAME at
> all? Works perfectly fine under my PC and works unbelievably fine on my GPD Win.
> SSFIV:AE runs no problem and the Device doesnt get that warm. But SFIV 1.0 does seem
> to run a little slow. About 75-80%, but the Game locks up on you when it gets into
> the Attract Video.Though I think the Loaders I have are 2 completely different ones.

they're not emulators, they just hack / patch bits of the game and simulate the coin stuff.

if your PC hardware isn't the same as the original game hardware they're going to have various issues, this includes cases where your PC using different video cards and driver revisions compared to the PCB as some of the games rely on older / buggier drivers, that kind of thing.

but really, they're PC games running on a PC, the flaws are because they were never designed to run on more than one type of PC, which is also why the 'just use the PC hardware' approach is flawed, especially as PCs become more and more different to the ones used there, eventually these just won't run properly at all, like a lot of old Windows games today don't run properly with current versions of Windows.



MetalliC
Demul team
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smoker1]
#364352 - 03/17/17 07:30 PM


> Actually, am wondering something: Is the Taito Type X2 Loader a Emulator like MAME at all?

Taito X(2) "loaders" is nothing more than JVS-IO board emulators

the games itself if native win32 applications, doesn't require runtimes or some Sega special libraries, so no real emulation required



Smoker1
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: MetalliC]
#364353 - 03/17/17 09:39 PM


Well if anything, could see about integrating what would be required to run it, just take the necessary Files for the Game and make it into a File directed for it. That way should hopefully run like normal.



MooglyGuy
Renegade MAME Dev
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smoker1]
#364356 - 03/18/17 12:31 AM


> Well if anything, could see about integrating what would be required to run it, just
> take the necessary Files for the Game and make it into a File directed for it. That
> way should hopefully run like normal.

Dude. Idiot. This has absolutely zero relevance to MAME and can never even remotely be used by MAME. If you don't understand why not, just shut the fuck up and stop spouting your yap off about shit you know fucking nothing about.



Smoker1
MAME Fan
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#364364 - 03/18/17 09:26 AM


Well you dont have to be a dick about it. Not everyone is like you knowing how to Code or what-the-fuck-ever. Was just a suggestion Mr. Stuck-Up Asshole



soviet
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smoker1]
#364496 - 03/20/17 07:47 PM


> Well you dont have to be a dick about it. Not everyone is like you knowing how to
> Code or what-the-fuck-ever. Was just a suggestion Mr. Stuck-Up Asshole

While I would have refrained from outright insults, I agree 100% with MooglyGuy and his violent reaction.
What you call "just a suggestion" is in fact offensively uninformed, and completely contrary to the design of MAME: either you don't know, and it shows your opinions are worth nothing and you should shut up, or you don't care and you are being "a dick" for asking a valuable contributor to compromise MAME design integrity for the sake of easy to play pirated PC-based arcade games.



Haze
Reged: 09/23/03
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: soviet]
#364497 - 03/20/17 07:51 PM


> > Well you dont have to be a dick about it. Not everyone is like you knowing how to
> > Code or what-the-fuck-ever. Was just a suggestion Mr. Stuck-Up Asshole
>
> While I would have refrained from outright insults, I agree 100% with MooglyGuy and
> his violent reaction.
> What you call "just a suggestion" is in fact offensively uninformed, and completely
> contrary to the design of MAME: either you don't know, and it shows your opinions are
> worth nothing and you should shut up, or you don't care and you are being "a dick"
> for asking a valuable contributor to compromise MAME design integrity for the sake of
> easy to play pirated PC-based arcade games.

I have a feeling there's a language barrier with 'smoker1' here in addition to the lack of understanding.

Maybe if somebody could explain MAME's position in his / her native language and why things don't fit and will never fit it might help. I seem to remember trying to explain the position in a previous thread to the same poster when they got hyped up over some other DU announcement, only for their replies to appear to misinterpret my words in a way that I can only assume were due to being put through some online translation service.



Dullaron
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Haze]
#364610 - 03/24/17 11:20 PM


> > Cant wait till it is able to run fully. Not to mention getting SFIV in MAME and
> > getting that running Playable
>
> you and me will both likely be dead before that happens, if it ever happens. SFIV
> runs on a full blown modern PC, I can't see MAME emulating that at playable speeds
> even given 100 years.

You might be right. I don't think MAME will last though. Think about something better that will replace MAME in 10 years or so that could be faster than MAME. I'll be 51 in ten years. Heh. Anyway I don't think any of MAME Dev gonna stay active by then. MAME might go to the grave.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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The plot thickens new [Re: Smitdogg]
#364671 - 03/28/17 03:19 AM


The version in mame is from July 5:




The one we just got is from a month later:




Title shot:




BIOS-D
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Re: The plot thickens new [Re: Smitdogg]
#364679 - 03/28/17 06:36 AM


Now that I think about it I don't recall seeing English texts for that game ever. Not on my Dreamcast, not on Arcades and neither on any other console because I didn't have them at that time. Only Japanese texts.

And given more though about it, I could have sworn the first Capcom Vs. SNK had an EXP counter below the character selection screen. I also recall a SFIII machine with Ryu stage having a group of school girls as fanbase in the background.

Either my memories are betraying me or there are still obscure versions yet to be found.



MetalliC
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Re: The plot thickens new [Re: BIOS-D]
#364683 - 03/28/17 01:41 PM


> Now that I think about it I don't recall seeing English texts for that game ever. Not
> on my Dreamcast, not on Arcades and neither on any other console because I didn't
> have them at that time. Only Japanese texts.

probably because Dreamcast version was released only for Japan.

on other hand arcade version was targeted worldwide from very beginning. GDL-0007A 010705 already had English texts and "Mark of Millennium" title then boot with US or Export BIOS.
why this new one GDL-0008 010804 exists and what was changed ? hard to say, game "exe" was recompiled, so there a lot of changes then binary compared, and very hard to find real code changes. game content was modified as well, I see ~7MB chunk of data is different.
I'd say more probable there was made translation corrections for international release, and maybe some censorship...

I hope Capcom fighting games fans may know more about CvS2 versions differences.

Edited by MetalliC (03/28/17 01:43 PM)



URherenow
Reged: 09/21/03
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smitdogg]
#364701 - 03/29/17 06:40 AM


If you want to simply use all of your PC's hardware, it isn't even emulation and has nothing to do with MAME.

Considering the progress made in the last 30 or 40 years, however... I think the "100 years" prediction is overkill.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: URherenow]
#364702 - 03/29/17 06:52 AM


Well, that's all well and good in an old school world where PC CPU progress was made but it seems to me that from the beginning up until the Core 2 Duo we had some sort of Moore's law with CPUs but since then it's been totally pathetic. So if you are still able to expect big CPU breakthroughs then ok but I can't anymore so maybe time do whatever we can instead of clinging to a strict definition of emulation like it's our fucking bible. But if the stuff can't be done either way then we're screwed either way. Maybe someone will make a breakthrough and we'll be able to get a new CPU highway started but it's been dog shit since the Core 2 Duo, that was the end of the road. There's no big difference from a PC from 10 years ago and today running mame.



Dullaron
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Haze]
#364703 - 03/29/17 07:09 AM


> > Actually, am wondering something: Is the Taito Type X2 Loader a Emulator like MAME
> at
> > all? Works perfectly fine under my PC and works unbelievably fine on my GPD Win.
> > SSFIV:AE runs no problem and the Device doesnt get that warm. But SFIV 1.0 does
> seem
> > to run a little slow. About 75-80%, but the Game locks up on you when it gets into
> > the Attract Video.Though I think the Loaders I have are 2 completely different
> ones.
>
> they're not emulators, they just hack / patch bits of the game and simulate the coin
> stuff.
>
> if your PC hardware isn't the same as the original game hardware they're going to
> have various issues, this includes cases where your PC using different video cards
> and driver revisions compared to the PCB as some of the games rely on older / buggier
> drivers, that kind of thing.
>
> but really, they're PC games running on a PC, the flaws are because they were never
> designed to run on more than one type of PC, which is also why the 'just use the PC
> hardware' approach is flawed, especially as PCs become more and more different to the
> ones used there, eventually these just won't run properly at all, like a lot of old
> Windows games today don't run properly with current versions of Windows.

Now you know why I don't use that hack program. Train wreak.



jhonny_d
MAME Fan
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: vram74]
#364708 - 03/29/17 10:56 AM



> How much horsepower would it require to get Naomi/2 and DC playable at full speed in
> MAME?

I would really like to know the answer to the same question


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