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SmitdoggAdministrator
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DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001
#364286 - 03/15/17 11:20 PM Attachment: cap.jpg 63 KB (1 downloads)




Thanks to donations we got a newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001. It is the GDL-0008 version. The one currently in MAME is GDL-0007A.



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Haze
Reged: 09/23/03
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smitdogg]
#364290 - 03/16/17 01:30 AM


> Thanks to donations we got a newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting
> 2001. It is the GDL-0008 version. The one currently in MAME is GDL-0007A.

Thats.. interesting. Wonder why it needed a whole new number instead of just being a revision. Different regions supported maybe?

By assigning it a brand new number they're essentially declaring it a different product, not a swap in / swap out bugfix.

Note, the disc calls it 'Mark of the Millennium' instead of 'Millionaire Fighting' like the 0007A disc so it's possible an alt title for a different market rather than a newer revision, it might even be an older revision if GDL-0007 and GDL-0008 were released at the same time. Assuming the PS2 naming scheme applies this is probably the official export version.



Vas Crabb
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Haze]
#364291 - 03/16/17 01:39 AM


> Note, the disc calls it 'Mark of the Millennium' instead of 'Millionaire Fighting'
> like the 0007A disc so it's possible an alt title for a different market rather than
> a newer revision, it might even be an older revision if GDL-0007 and GDL-0008 were
> released at the same time. Assuming the PS2 naming scheme applies this is probably
> the official export version.

Millionaire Fighting was the title used in Japan while Mark of the Millennium was used in some export markets, so it's possible it's a "modified for export" version.



Smoker1
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smitdogg]
#364293 - 03/16/17 02:00 AM


Cant wait till it is able to run fully. Not to mention getting SFIV in MAME and getting that running Playable



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Haze
Reged: 09/23/03
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smoker1]
#364295 - 03/16/17 02:13 AM


> Cant wait till it is able to run fully. Not to mention getting SFIV in MAME and
> getting that running Playable

you and me will both likely be dead before that happens, if it ever happens. SFIV runs on a full blown modern PC, I can't see MAME emulating that at playable speeds even given 100 years.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Haze]
#364297 - 03/16/17 02:25 AM


MAME would have to adapt to use the PC's CPU as the game's CPU for games like this or else it's some sort of digital masochism.



Haze
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smitdogg]
#364299 - 03/16/17 02:30 AM


> MAME would have to adapt to use the PC's CPU as the game's CPU for games like this or
> else it's some sort of digital masochism.

not really that simple tho as while it's x86 / x64 the CPU in your PC has at the very least significantly different timing characteristics, furthermore the CPU is only a fraction of what needs emulating. If you think getting the timings right on something like the Cave SH3 based games is hard, then imagine a case where they're completely different simply based on the PC you're using or what else is running in the background.

'just use the host CPU' really doesn't fit into the MAME architecture at all, and I can't see it ever fitting, it's just too different, hence why I doubt MAME will run those modern PC based games even given 100 years.

you could say "it's MAME, they'll find a way" but there are real limits to what can be done before it isn't really emulation at all.



B2K24
Evolution is a mystery
Reged: 10/25/10
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Haze]
#364302 - 03/16/17 03:53 AM


SFIV

I'll die happy if the older Sega Arcade stuff can finally run in MAME






Smoker1
MAME Fan
Reged: 01/24/10
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smitdogg]
#364312 - 03/16/17 07:42 AM


Actually, I saw on Ebay someone was Selling this, but I did not see the GD-Rom, but it did have a HDD and a USB Drive on it. Is it possible the Game might need to be Written like the CPS3 Games need when being run 1st time?



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Nomax
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Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 395
Loc: Belgium
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Haze]
#364313 - 03/16/17 11:26 AM


> > Thanks to donations we got a newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire
> Fighting
> > 2001. It is the GDL-0008 version. The one currently in MAME is GDL-0007A.
>
> Thats.. interesting. Wonder why it needed a whole new number instead of just being a
> revision. Different regions supported maybe?
>
> By assigning it a brand new number they're essentially declaring it a different
> product, not a swap in / swap out bugfix.
>
> Note, the disc calls it 'Mark of the Millennium' instead of 'Millionaire Fighting'
> like the 0007A disc so it's possible an alt title for a different market rather than
> a newer revision, it might even be an older revision if GDL-0007 and GDL-0008 were
> released at the same time. Assuming the PS2 naming scheme applies this is probably
> the official export version.

We'll have to check the build date given on boot screen to see if it's a newer revision or just the same for another region.



--------------------
NPlayers.ini - The multiplayer description file for MAME. (Linux user #448789)



Nomax
Ryo Hazuki
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 395
Loc: Belgium
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smoker1]
#364315 - 03/16/17 11:39 AM


> Actually, I saw on Ebay someone was Selling this, but I did not see the GD-Rom, but
> it did have a HDD and a USB Drive on it. Is it possible the Game might need to be
> Written like the CPS3 Games need when being run 1st time?

Are you talking about Capcom vs. SNK 2 or Street Fighter IV?

Capcom vs. SNK 2 was only sold as a GD-ROM with a security dongle (a ROM chip). The first time the game is run, all GD-ROM content is copied into the NAOMI's DIMM board RAM. The machine restarts itself, checks if the data is correct and runs the game from memory. That memory is battery powered but it has to reload the game from the disc if you leave the cabinet powered off for several days.

Street Fighter IV was sold as a hard disk with a security dongle (USB key). No install disc exists. The full operating system (Windows XP Embedded) and game are present on the hard disk and are run from there by the Type X2 system.



--------------------
NPlayers.ini - The multiplayer description file for MAME. (Linux user #448789)



Ice Cream
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: B2K24]
#364319 - 03/16/17 03:08 PM


> SFIV
>
> I'll die happy if the older Sega Arcade stuff can finally run in MAME

It seems people forget about the illegal emulation of TaitoX and NesicaxLive. It's the same thing.
And SFIV.



vram74
Semi-Lurker
Reged: 09/28/03
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Haze]
#364321 - 03/16/17 05:25 PM


> > MAME would have to adapt to use the PC's CPU as the game's CPU for games like this
> or
> > else it's some sort of digital masochism.
>
> not really that simple tho as while it's x86 / x64 the CPU in your PC has at the very
> least significantly different timing characteristics, furthermore the CPU is only a
> fraction of what needs emulating. If you think getting the timings right on something
> like the Cave SH3 based games is hard, then imagine a case where they're completely
> different simply based on the PC you're using or what else is running in the
> background.
>
> 'just use the host CPU' really doesn't fit into the MAME architecture at all, and I
> can't see it ever fitting, it's just too different, hence why I doubt MAME will run
> those modern PC based games even given 100 years.
>
> you could say "it's MAME, they'll find a way" but there are real limits to what can
> be done before it isn't really emulation at all.


How much horsepower would it require to get Naomi/2 and DC playable at full speed in MAME?



Smoker1
MAME Fan
Reged: 01/24/10
Posts: 114
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Nomax]
#364325 - 03/16/17 10:52 PM


> > Actually, I saw on Ebay someone was Selling this, but I did not see the GD-Rom, but
> > it did have a HDD and a USB Drive on it. Is it possible the Game might need to be
> > Written like the CPS3 Games need when being run 1st time?
>
> Are you talking about Capcom vs. SNK 2 or Street Fighter IV?
>
> Capcom vs. SNK 2 was only sold as a GD-ROM with a security dongle (a ROM chip). The
> first time the game is run, all GD-ROM content is copied into the NAOMI's DIMM board
> RAM. The machine restarts itself, checks if the data is correct and runs the game
> from memory. That memory is battery powered but it has to reload the game from the
> disc if you leave the cabinet powered off for several days.
>
> Street Fighter IV was sold as a hard disk with a security dongle (USB key). No
> install disc exists. The full operating system (Windows XP Embedded) and game are
> present on the hard disk and are run from there by the Type X2 system.

SFIV
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taito-Type-X2-RO...e-/162142539416
Cap VS SNK 2
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Capcom-VS-SNK-Vi...IEAAOSw3v5YtCIh



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Nomax
Ryo Hazuki
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 395
Loc: Belgium
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smoker1]
#364327 - 03/17/17 12:03 AM


> > > Actually, I saw on Ebay someone was Selling this, but I did not see the GD-Rom,
> but
> > > it did have a HDD and a USB Drive on it. Is it possible the Game might need to be
> > > Written like the CPS3 Games need when being run 1st time?
> >
> > Are you talking about Capcom vs. SNK 2 or Street Fighter IV?
> >
> > Capcom vs. SNK 2 was only sold as a GD-ROM with a security dongle (a ROM chip). The
> > first time the game is run, all GD-ROM content is copied into the NAOMI's DIMM
> board
> > RAM. The machine restarts itself, checks if the data is correct and runs the game
> > from memory. That memory is battery powered but it has to reload the game from the
> > disc if you leave the cabinet powered off for several days.
> >
> > Street Fighter IV was sold as a hard disk with a security dongle (USB key). No
> > install disc exists. The full operating system (Windows XP Embedded) and game are
> > present on the hard disk and are run from there by the Type X2 system.
>
> SFIV
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taito-Type-X2-RO...e-/162142539416
> Cap VS SNK 2
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Capcom-VS-SNK-Vi...IEAAOSw3v5YtCIh

That's what I wrote above, first link is a Super Street Fighter IV hard disk (the HD is under the metal plate).
Second link is a cartridge of Capcom vs. SNK, not Capcom vs. SNK 2. Capcom vs. SNK 2 was released as GD-ROM only.

I have all these games as originals in my collection (the SFIV version I have is Super Street Fighter IV Arcade Edition Ver. 2012, I have 2 of them since you need to link 2 systems to have 2-player gameplay. It was pretty expensive back in the days).



--------------------
NPlayers.ini - The multiplayer description file for MAME. (Linux user #448789)



MetalliC
Demul team
Reged: 03/20/09
Posts: 123
Loc: UA
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Nomax]
#364328 - 03/17/17 12:40 AM


> We'll have to check the build date given on boot screen to see if it's a newer
> revision or just the same for another region.

will see soon, I hope the game itself will be somehow different.

in general - I suspect there was made not small number of regional NAOMI game releases, on cartridges, but we don't know they exists because cartridges looks all the same.
so if there is chance - please check BIOS ROM test sums and compare with already preserved set(s).



Smoker1
MAME Fan
Reged: 01/24/10
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Nomax]
#364336 - 03/17/17 04:30 AM


Actually, am wondering something: Is the Taito Type X2 Loader a Emulator like MAME at all? Works perfectly fine under my PC and works unbelievably fine on my GPD Win. SSFIV:AE runs no problem and the Device doesnt get that warm. But SFIV 1.0 does seem to run a little slow. About 75-80%, but the Game locks up on you when it gets into the Attract Video.Though I think the Loaders I have are 2 completely different ones.



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Haze
Reged: 09/23/03
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smoker1]
#364337 - 03/17/17 04:39 AM


> Actually, am wondering something: Is the Taito Type X2 Loader a Emulator like MAME at
> all? Works perfectly fine under my PC and works unbelievably fine on my GPD Win.
> SSFIV:AE runs no problem and the Device doesnt get that warm. But SFIV 1.0 does seem
> to run a little slow. About 75-80%, but the Game locks up on you when it gets into
> the Attract Video.Though I think the Loaders I have are 2 completely different ones.

they're not emulators, they just hack / patch bits of the game and simulate the coin stuff.

if your PC hardware isn't the same as the original game hardware they're going to have various issues, this includes cases where your PC using different video cards and driver revisions compared to the PCB as some of the games rely on older / buggier drivers, that kind of thing.

but really, they're PC games running on a PC, the flaws are because they were never designed to run on more than one type of PC, which is also why the 'just use the PC hardware' approach is flawed, especially as PCs become more and more different to the ones used there, eventually these just won't run properly at all, like a lot of old Windows games today don't run properly with current versions of Windows.



MetalliC
Demul team
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Posts: 123
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smoker1]
#364352 - 03/17/17 07:30 PM


> Actually, am wondering something: Is the Taito Type X2 Loader a Emulator like MAME at all?

Taito X(2) "loaders" is nothing more than JVS-IO board emulators

the games itself if native win32 applications, doesn't require runtimes or some Sega special libraries, so no real emulation required



Smoker1
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: MetalliC]
#364353 - 03/17/17 09:39 PM


Well if anything, could see about integrating what would be required to run it, just take the necessary Files for the Game and make it into a File directed for it. That way should hopefully run like normal.



MooglyGuy
Renegade MAME Dev
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smoker1]
#364356 - 03/18/17 12:31 AM


> Well if anything, could see about integrating what would be required to run it, just
> take the necessary Files for the Game and make it into a File directed for it. That
> way should hopefully run like normal.

Dude. Idiot. This has absolutely zero relevance to MAME and can never even remotely be used by MAME. If you don't understand why not, just shut the fuck up and stop spouting your yap off about shit you know fucking nothing about.



Smoker1
MAME Fan
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#364364 - 03/18/17 09:26 AM


Well you dont have to be a dick about it. Not everyone is like you knowing how to Code or what-the-fuck-ever. Was just a suggestion Mr. Stuck-Up Asshole



soviet
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Smoker1]
#364496 - 03/20/17 07:47 PM


> Well you dont have to be a dick about it. Not everyone is like you knowing how to
> Code or what-the-fuck-ever. Was just a suggestion Mr. Stuck-Up Asshole

While I would have refrained from outright insults, I agree 100% with MooglyGuy and his violent reaction.
What you call "just a suggestion" is in fact offensively uninformed, and completely contrary to the design of MAME: either you don't know, and it shows your opinions are worth nothing and you should shut up, or you don't care and you are being "a dick" for asking a valuable contributor to compromise MAME design integrity for the sake of easy to play pirated PC-based arcade games.



Haze
Reged: 09/23/03
Posts: 4093
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: soviet]
#364497 - 03/20/17 07:51 PM


> > Well you dont have to be a dick about it. Not everyone is like you knowing how to
> > Code or what-the-fuck-ever. Was just a suggestion Mr. Stuck-Up Asshole
>
> While I would have refrained from outright insults, I agree 100% with MooglyGuy and
> his violent reaction.
> What you call "just a suggestion" is in fact offensively uninformed, and completely
> contrary to the design of MAME: either you don't know, and it shows your opinions are
> worth nothing and you should shut up, or you don't care and you are being "a dick"
> for asking a valuable contributor to compromise MAME design integrity for the sake of
> easy to play pirated PC-based arcade games.

I have a feeling there's a language barrier with 'smoker1' here in addition to the lack of understanding.

Maybe if somebody could explain MAME's position in his / her native language and why things don't fit and will never fit it might help. I seem to remember trying to explain the position in a previous thread to the same poster when they got hyped up over some other DU announcement, only for their replies to appear to misinterpret my words in a way that I can only assume were due to being put through some online translation service.



Dullaron
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Reged: 07/22/05
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Re: DU: Newer version of Capcom Vs. SNK 2 - Millionaire Fighting 2001 new [Re: Haze]
#364610 - 03/24/17 11:20 PM


> > Cant wait till it is able to run fully. Not to mention getting SFIV in MAME and
> > getting that running Playable
>
> you and me will both likely be dead before that happens, if it ever happens. SFIV
> runs on a full blown modern PC, I can't see MAME emulating that at playable speeds
> even given 100 years.

You might be right. I don't think MAME will last though. Think about something better that will replace MAME in 10 years or so that could be faster than MAME. I'll be 51 in ten years. Heh. Anyway I don't think any of MAME Dev gonna stay active by then. MAME might go to the grave.


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