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pong
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Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976)
#365943 - 05/11/17 11:03 PM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEF9w-ArQc4
https://www.instagram.com/p/BT7sUjhD64u/

Found! This one is serial no. 44. Primitive game from 1976 with a lot of charm. Seems to be fully functional. Andy Welburn is going to look at the board and dump the proms.



70s arcade video games http://www.arcade72.com - https://www.facebook.com/arcade72 - https://www.instagram.com/arcade72/
B/W video game general and F/S https://www.facebook.com/groups/bronzeage/



StilettoAdministrator
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: pong]
#365950 - 05/11/17 11:36 PM


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEF9w-ArQc4
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BT7sUjhD64u/
>
> Found! This one is serial no. 44. Primitive game from 1976 with a lot of charm. Seems
> to be fully functional. Andy Welburn is going to look at the board and dump the
> proms.

Awesome score, it's gonna be hard for you to beat that.

Congratulations, pong.

- Stiletto



gregf
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: pong]
#365954 - 05/12/17 12:29 AM



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEF9w-ArQc4
https://www.instagram.com/p/BT7sUjhD64u/


>Found! This one is serial no. 44. Primitive game from 1976 with a lot of charm. Seems to be fully functional.

A huge congrats there for finding a cab. Almost within five years 05/21/12 of when I had posted about getting a manual (photocopy I believe).


This also means you can always go back and update your old post 05/25/12 if wanting to do so. :-) *kidding* I sometimes do that myself on some of my outdated posts here on MW.

-
Nice find! I've never seen or even heard of any Knights in Armor cabinets in existence. I've been collecting for 15+ years and have found a lot of neat b&w games.
-




> Andy Welburn is going to look at the board and dump the proms.

A definite good choice.

I did a brief info regarding roms on the pcb.

--
From Knights in Armor logic schematics: Man rom or also shown as ROM 1 (located at M1 on the pcb)..the functions throughout schematics list M.video etc which is related to ROM 1 (ie: Man Rom).

Also from Knights in Armor logic schematics: Horse rom or also shown as ROM 2 (located at M2 on the pcb)..the functions throughout schematics list H.video etc which is related to ROM 2 (ie: Horse Rom).

Both rom chips are listed as type: 82S115P there is also 8205R so that is probably a chip equivalent in case the other type isn't available.
--


Some of the PSE brand games roms are now documented within MAME even though it will be a while before games are emulated. Moogly did add in initial support for some rom chips and couriersud made sure to get rom support to work within the non-cpu netlist environment so things are progressing along the way such as Atari Stunt Cycle now showing an image on the screen, but not anywhere playable in MAME at this time.


src/mame/drivers/pse.cpp

/*
ROM_START( knightar )
ROM_REGION( 0x10000, "maincpu", ROMREGION_ERASE00 )

ROM_REGION( 0x0020, "roms", ROMREGION_ERASE00 )
ROM_LOAD( "1.m1" ) // Man ROM stores image characters of knights. 82S115P or 8205R according to Knights in Armor schematics
ROM_LOAD( "2.m2" ) // Horse ROM stores image characters of horses. 82S115P or 8205R according to Knights in Armor schematics
ROM_END
*/

//GAME( 1976, knightar, 0, pse, 0, driver_device, 0, ROT0, "Project Support Engineering", "Knights in Armor [TTL]", MACHINE_IS_SKELETON )





I did post a user instructions on the artwork forum in case any cab owner of the game needed to make copies of all the various coin settings.

iirc there were 6 operator setting options for coin credits. It was just printed on disposable paper which was going about it the wrong way, but that was then of 1970s thinking.

I was hoping someone was able to match the font type of the coin credits when I uploaded to artwork forum, but no one was able to find the exact font type.


I can send a photocopy of the paperwork (a photocopy I believe...not original) that I have to you. Send me a message with mailing address and I'll get a set on its way to you.



btw: If Andy is able to dump any Exidy pcbs, Death Race and Alley Rally are on want list.

Exidy Attack is supported, but notes indicate another Attack pcb might be needed just to verify if current prom dumps are good.


-
src/mame/drivers/exidyttl.cpp

Exidy discrete hardware games

Alley Rally (1976/10) (AR-1A)
Attack (1977/02)
Death Race (1976/04)
-

Edited by gregf (05/12/17 12:35 AM)



Tornadoboy
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: gregf]
#365956 - 05/12/17 01:09 AM


> btw: If Andy is able to dump any Exidy pcbs, Death Race and Alley Rally are on want list.


I have an untested Alley Rally PCB, although it doesn't look like there's any EPROMs to dump, looks totally TTL.



gregf
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: Tornadoboy]
#365960 - 05/12/17 03:11 AM



>>btw: If Andy is able to dump any Exidy pcbs, Death Race and Alley Rally are on want list.


>I have an untested Alley Rally PCB, although it doesn't look like there's any EPROMs to
>dump, looks totally TTL.

I believe Alley Rally did use some roms, but I'll need to check pdf file again. I forget that the Exidy file src/mame/drivers/exidyttl.cpp


Exidy discrete hardware games

Alley Rally (1976/10) (AR-1A)
Attack (1977/02)
Death Race (1976/04)
Destruction Derby (1976/01)


....has some catching up compared to other source files such as Ramtek or PSE files


src/mame/drivers/pse.cpp

Project Support Engineering Games

Game Name DATA
-------------------------------------
1-2-4 Cocktail Table (197?) UNKNOWN
Bazooka (1976/11) YES
Desert Patrol (1977/11) YES
Espana (cabinet) (1975/10) NO
Frenzy (1975/08) UNKNOWN
Game Tree (1978/02) YES
Hodge Podge (1975?) NO
Knights in Armor (1976/06) YES
Maneater (1975/11) YES
Play Five (1975?) UNKNOWN
Scandia (cabinet) (1975/08) NO
Two Game (1974) UNKNOWN
U.N. Command (1977) YES?



Brian Deuel
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: pong]
#365963 - 05/12/17 06:08 AM


Wow! Congrats on a very nice (and rare) find.



"One of these days, I'm going to cut you into little pieces!"- Nick Mason, Pink Floyd



Tornadoboy
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: gregf]
#365972 - 05/12/17 03:59 PM


I also have super rare Cobra Gunship and TV Pinball PCBs that are TTL, if that's useful to MAME at all.

By the way, Knights in Armor looks like pretty advanced stuff for 1976!



pong
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: pong]
#365974 - 05/12/17 05:15 PM


BTW- I am looking for a Wheels or Racer control panel for its shifter. The same top T handle is used in Knights in Armor. The Black Knight is missing the top piece.

Please LMK if you have one for sale. Thanks!



70s arcade video games http://www.arcade72.com - https://www.facebook.com/arcade72 - https://www.instagram.com/arcade72/
B/W video game general and F/S https://www.facebook.com/groups/bronzeage/



pong
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: gregf]
#365977 - 05/12/17 06:03 PM


> I can send a photocopy of the paperwork (a photocopy I believe...not original) that
> I have to you. Send me a message with mailing address and I'll get a set on its way
> to you.


Awesome! I got the user manual with the cab, but no schematics.



70s arcade video games http://www.arcade72.com - https://www.facebook.com/arcade72 - https://www.instagram.com/arcade72/
B/W video game general and F/S https://www.facebook.com/groups/bronzeage/



pong
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: gregf]
#365978 - 05/12/17 06:05 PM


> Nice find! I've never seen or even heard of any Knights in Armor cabinets in
> existence. I've been collecting for 15+ years and have found a lot of neat b&w games.

I can't believe it myself. I was amazed when this turned up. Now, I just have to find a Cops N Robbers...yeah right.



70s arcade video games http://www.arcade72.com - https://www.facebook.com/arcade72 - https://www.instagram.com/arcade72/
B/W video game general and F/S https://www.facebook.com/groups/bronzeage/



gregf
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: pong]
#365980 - 05/12/17 06:27 PM



>>I can send a photocopy of the paperwork (a photocopy I believe...not original) that
>>I have to you. Send me a message with mailing address and I'll get a set on its way
>>to you.


>Awesome!

The schematics that I got years earlier are probably reprints done way back in 1970s. It was in 12 separate legal size pages iirc. They have to be placed side-by-side to do any tracing. It wasn't something polished like PSE's stapled bound paperwork that came with games such as Game Tree or Desert Patrol.


>I got the user manual with the cab, but no schematics.

That would be interesting if you can upload a photo here of what the manual looks like.
Does the manual have a cover and is it stapled bound? I am curious of how many pages it has. What I have is separate pages (likely photocopied) and might be missing a page or two.

Fortunately the coin instructions sheet is almost intact. Just need to take what is scanned to a print shop to have someone match the font type and have it recreated on a separate page and have duplicate pdf files made available so that way the coin instructions sheet is preserved itself.



gregf
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: Tornadoboy]
#365982 - 05/12/17 06:55 PM


>I also have super rare Cobra Gunship and TV Pinball PCBs that are TTL, if that's useful to MAME at all.

Meadows Cobra Gunship does use roms. Hold on to those pcbs just in case.

For Meadows Cobra Gunship, the roms have been dumped by siftware years ago (hard to believe it has been that long ago) and it is documented within the source file src/mame/drivers/meadwttl.cpp

The Meadows ttl file is just behind the pse.cpp source file in regards to documenting the various non-cpu games. At this time, the only remaining known Meadows game that uses roms and is on the want list is Drop Zone 4.


Meadows Discrete Game List

Bombs Away (1976)
Ckidzo (1976)
Cobra Gunship (1976)
Drop Zone 4 (1975)
Flim Flam (1974)
Flim Flam II (1975)
Gridiron (1977)
Meadows 4 in 1 (197?)
Star Shooter (1975)

GAME( 1976, cgunship, 0, meadows, 0, driver_device, 0, ROT0, "Meadows", "Cobra Gunship [TTL]", MACHINE_IS_SKELETON )



-
Project Support Engineering Games

Game Name DATA
-------------------------------------
1-2-4 Cocktail Table (197?) UNKNOWN
Bazooka (1976/11) YES
Desert Patrol (1977/11) YES
Espana (cabinet) (1975/10) NO
Frenzy (1975/08) UNKNOWN
Game Tree (1978/02) YES
Hodge Podge (1975?) NO
Knights in Armor (1976/06) YES
Maneater (1975/11) YES
Play Five (1975?) UNKNOWN
Scandia (cabinet) (1975/08) NO
Two Game (1974) UNKNOWN
U.N. Command (1977) YES?




>and TV Pinball PCBs that are TTL

Assuming this is Exidy's TV Pinball, it is supposedly the same pcb as Chicago Coins TV Pin Game in which it doesn't have any roms etc. Exidy and Chicago Coin had contracts with each other regarding some of the video games in which were licensed back in 1970s.



>By the way, Knights in Armor looks like pretty advanced stuff for 1976!

Yep. I posted my take with Knights in Armor five years earlier when first seeing the game way back then.


Some games did have pretty good game designers that knew how to push the graphics design to the limits with some of the hardware. Atari with Shark/Jaws in 1975 seemed advanced with the sprite images imo. I was surprised that Knights in Armor was a single pcb game. I was expecting the game to be a multiple pcb hardware setup with their later games: Game Tree and Desert Patrol.

I can see Knights in Armor might have a better chance of being emulated first since it is a single pcb, but emulating the control inputs might be the challenge. Moogly did do some good work on netlist additions several months earlier since he was also emulating a computer system that required that type of work.


https://git.redump.net/mame/log/?qt=author&q=therealmogminer%40gmail.com

src/mame/drivers/hazeltin.cpp

Hazeltine Corporation Hazeltine 1500



Tornadoboy
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: gregf]
#365987 - 05/12/17 07:26 PM


Do you know if there's a pinout around for Cobra Gunship?

I've never been able to find it.



pong
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: gregf]
#365989 - 05/12/17 07:48 PM


> That would be interesting if you can upload a photo here of what the manual looks
> like.
> Does the manual have a cover and is it stapled bound? I am curious of how many pages
> it has. What I have is separate pages (likely photocopied) and might be missing a
> page or two.

I don't think it's stapled. It's just held together by a plastic edge holder. I'll try to get it scanned over the weekend and post it.



70s arcade video games http://www.arcade72.com - https://www.facebook.com/arcade72 - https://www.instagram.com/arcade72/
B/W video game general and F/S https://www.facebook.com/groups/bronzeage/



StilettoAdministrator
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: Tornadoboy]
#366000 - 05/13/17 12:32 AM


> > btw: If Andy is able to dump any Exidy pcbs, Death Race and Alley Rally are on
> want list.
>
>
> I have an untested Alley Rally PCB, although it doesn't look like there's any EPROMs
> to dump, looks totally TTL.

Looked through the schematics yesterday evening, saw a lot of PROMs.

82S129 114 5H
82S129 114 7K
82S129 105 8C
82S129 117 10E
82S129 118 11D
82S129 116 11E
82S129 115 11H
82S123 324 11N
82S129 107 12K
82S129 106 12L
82S129 108 12M
82S129 109 12N
82S123 319 13C
82S129 199 13J
82S129 198 13K
82S129 197 13L
82S129 196 13M
82S131 295 14L
82S131

(may have typos)

- Stiletto



Antny
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: pong]
#366007 - 05/13/17 04:02 AM Attachment: Image1.png 1449 KB (0 downloads)


Just popping in to say I'm jealous of that sweet find

Any chance you could take some pictures so we could add them to the frontend packs?

We are always looking for images and that cab looks great for being so old.

See image below for an idea of what would be nice.

No pressure, no rush. if you don't want to do it, no problem.

The largest/highest resolution you can get would be perfect.

Full cabinet (angled & straight)....control panel....scan of the instructions (if possible)

If you ever need to dismantle it for any reason a scan of the bezel would be great for the artwork project.

[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]

Attachment

Edited by Antny (05/13/17 04:05 AM)



pong
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: gregf]
#366013 - 05/13/17 08:31 PM Attachment: KnightsIArmorOperationsManual.pdf.zip 33756 KB (12 downloads)


> That would be interesting if you can upload a photo here of what the manual looks

Scanned the manual...see attached.



70s arcade video games http://www.arcade72.com - https://www.facebook.com/arcade72 - https://www.instagram.com/arcade72/
B/W video game general and F/S https://www.facebook.com/groups/bronzeage/



pong
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: gregf]
#366014 - 05/13/17 08:38 PM Attachment: IMG_20170513_143547_01.jpg 1766 KB (0 downloads)


Manual looks like this...

[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]

Attachment

Edited by pong (05/13/17 08:38 PM)



70s arcade video games http://www.arcade72.com - https://www.facebook.com/arcade72 - https://www.instagram.com/arcade72/
B/W video game general and F/S https://www.facebook.com/groups/bronzeage/



gregf
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: pong]
#366058 - 05/15/17 09:50 PM




>Manual looks like this..

Mine is like that as well with blue cover piece, but the binding piece already removed from it. And also the coin instruction paper sheet on mine already has the bottom left coin instructions setting already clipped off where as yours is complete.



gregf
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Re: Knights In Armor (PSE, 1976) new [Re: pong]
#366059 - 05/15/17 09:58 PM




>>That would be interesting if you can upload a photo here of what the manual looks

>Scanned the manual...see attached.

Thanks for doing the scan. It appears the manual that you and I have are both complete. I thought I might have been missing a page. Schematics copies to be mailed later this week. I am guessing the schematics I have might be photocopied pieces...not original.

Fortunately your instructions sheet is complete...nothing removed compared to mine which has a bottom left piece already removed.


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