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Bart T.
Reged: 01/07/06
Posts: 194
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Re: 64-bit Windows build now available.
04/04/11 05:29 AM


> I can confirm that the 64 bits version runs way faster. Not sure about fps's but for
> example:

One thing you can do is disable frame limiting, allowing Supermodel to run as fast it can. Then compare. On very fast systems, it might become difficult to control the games, so I recommend creating a save state just before a scene that is known to slow the emulator down

> Do we have any kind of "way" to "know" how much mhz did these games used originally
> in each model 3 board?
>
> I mean, I know that:
> -Step 1.0: 32bits RISC PowerPC 603 66Mhz
> -Step 1.5: 32bits RISC PowerPC 603 100Mhz
> -Step 2.0: 32bits RISC PowerPC 603ev 166Mhz (Same for 2.1)

I'm not sure I understand the question. The clock frequencies you listed are what the games actually run at (although last I heard, there was some skepticism about Step 1.5 being 100MHz).

This notion of games being underclocked in Supermodel is somewhat artificial and really only relevant within the context of the emulator. Emulators are rarely built to be cycle-accurate simulators at the hardware level, certainly not with "complicated" architectures like the Model 3.

The PowerPC instruction timing is not necessarily correct and, more importantly, operations that would consume real time on the actual hardware, such as DMA transfers and rendering, do not eat up PowerPC cycles in the emulator. When the PowerPC issues a DMA transfer command, for example, the emulator does the entire transfer right away and then goes on to the next instruction as if arbitrary amounts of memory could be magically moved in 1 cycle. In reality, the DMA transfer would take some amount of time to complete and in the meantime, the PowerPC would continue running ("consuming" cycles, if you want to think of it that way, but without doing any useful work).

Basically, there are a lot of wasted cycles each frame where the PowerPC is waiting on other hardware to finish something. I don't need to run the PowerPC if it's just going to sit around and do nothing for millions of cycles. Better to underclock it. For the most part, the games are going to be timed off of IRQ events anyway (with some exceptions), so as long as enough cycles are executed per frame (and this is what you're asking about, I think), the result will be indistinguishable from running at the full 66 or 100 MHz.

What constitutes "enough" is virtually impossible to tell except through experimentation but all the games are doing similar things each frame, so there's probably some acceptable threshold we can identify. Your findings suggest that it may be 50 MHz, particularly for Step 1.5 and 1.0. Assuming the correct clock frequency is 66 MHz, a very crude estimate would suggest that the CPU spends about a quarter of the time doing nothing particularly useful.


Bart







Entire thread
Subject Posted by Posted on
* And the next top model is... Bart T. 04/01/11 09:48 AM
. * Discuss this in MAME Chat from here out. Closed because it's no longer news and it's getting a little creepy. (nt) kthx SmitdoggAdministrator  04/05/11 11:15 PM
. * any ClrMAME .dat file available ? CiroConsentino  04/05/11 07:46 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Cable  04/04/11 11:36 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Elratauru  04/04/11 11:42 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... BIOS-D  04/04/11 11:20 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... c0de  04/04/11 10:09 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... R. Belmont  04/04/11 10:57 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... c0de  04/05/11 08:04 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/05/11 09:55 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Bart T.  04/05/11 12:02 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... xxanderr1234  04/05/11 04:06 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Elratauru  04/05/11 05:55 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... xxanderr1234  04/05/11 01:48 PM
. * Thanks for all the great feedback but.. Bart T.  04/04/11 10:07 PM
. * Re: Thanks for all the great feedback but.. gregf  04/04/11 10:22 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... karadaniano  04/04/11 09:16 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/04/11 09:46 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Cyberzinho Punk  04/04/11 03:53 AM
. * 64-bit Windows build now available. Bart T.  04/03/11 08:56 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. Outrun2006  04/04/11 07:47 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. bart lover  04/04/11 07:54 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. RetroRepair  04/04/11 08:11 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. Bart T.  04/04/11 09:06 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. bart lover  04/04/11 10:19 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. RetroRepair  04/04/11 09:57 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. GraphicArts  04/04/11 10:06 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. Bart T.  04/04/11 10:05 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. Outrun2006  04/04/11 09:43 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. CrapBoardSoftware  04/04/11 11:32 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. CrapBoardSoftware  04/04/11 09:19 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. gregf  04/04/11 10:30 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. CrapBoardSoftware  04/04/11 11:29 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. Elratauru  04/04/11 04:25 AM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. Bart T.  04/04/11 05:29 AM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. Elratauru  04/04/11 09:40 AM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. Bart T.  04/04/11 05:37 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. bart lover  04/04/11 06:30 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. GraphicArts  04/04/11 06:44 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. bart lover  04/04/11 03:18 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. Bart T.  04/04/11 05:31 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. GraphicArts  04/04/11 05:11 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. Bart T.  04/04/11 05:29 PM
. * Re: 64-bit Windows build now available. GraphicArts  04/04/11 05:48 PM
. * strange performance Chine  04/03/11 04:58 PM
. * Re: strange performance Chine  04/03/11 07:40 PM
. * Re: strange performance zambr  04/03/11 05:28 PM
. * Re: strange performance Chine  04/03/11 05:38 PM
. * Re: strange performance Elratauru  04/03/11 06:10 PM
. * Re: strange performance GraphicArts  04/04/11 09:12 PM
. * Re: strange performance GraphicArts  04/04/11 07:21 PM
. * Re: strange performance zambr  04/03/11 05:59 PM
. * Re: strange performance Anonymous  04/04/11 03:53 AM
. * Re: strange performance GraphicArts  04/03/11 08:04 PM
. * Re: strange performance GraphicArts  04/03/11 06:39 PM
. * Re: strange performance luke2fr  04/03/11 07:14 PM
. * Re: strange performance R. Belmont  04/03/11 08:15 PM
. * Re: strange performance GraphicArts  04/03/11 10:44 PM
. * Re: strange performance GraphicArts  04/03/11 08:50 PM
. * Re: strange performance R. Belmont  04/03/11 11:30 PM
. * Small source update Bart T.  04/03/11 12:42 AM
. * Re: Small source update CiroConsentino  04/03/11 02:51 PM
. * Re: Small source update zambr  04/03/11 03:27 PM
. * Re: Small source update CiroConsentino  04/03/11 08:00 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Cyberzinho Punk  04/02/11 09:17 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... karadaniano  04/02/11 08:38 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... ShengLong  04/02/11 10:14 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Bart T.  04/02/11 11:01 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... zambr  04/02/11 10:52 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/02/11 07:26 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/02/11 08:06 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Bryan Ischo  04/02/11 03:33 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Vas Crabb  04/02/11 04:19 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/02/11 03:55 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... R. Belmont  04/02/11 05:45 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/02/11 10:01 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... etabeta  04/03/11 12:44 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Bart T.  04/02/11 11:04 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... pjay  04/02/11 11:25 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... karadaniano  04/03/11 12:20 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Bart T.  04/03/11 12:52 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... pjay  04/03/11 08:09 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... R. Belmont  04/03/11 11:31 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/05/11 10:02 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... karadaniano  04/05/11 11:18 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... R. Belmont  04/03/11 12:37 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... firebricks  04/03/11 09:02 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Dr. Spankenstein  04/02/11 11:40 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... karadaniano  04/01/11 11:43 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Ceto  04/01/11 10:27 PM
. * feature request - mouse on course select screens zambr  04/01/11 09:14 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/01/11 08:52 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... pjay  04/01/11 06:58 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/01/11 05:43 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Bart T.  04/01/11 05:52 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... MAMu_  04/01/11 06:39 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/01/11 05:59 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Bart T.  04/01/11 06:11 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/01/11 06:23 PM
. * sound? VirtuaIceMan  04/01/11 05:28 PM
. * Re: sound? R. Belmont  04/01/11 06:39 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Cable  04/01/11 04:57 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... AnimalBear  04/01/11 04:27 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... HowardC  04/01/11 02:25 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Bart T.  04/02/11 12:05 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... HowardC  04/02/11 05:00 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Anonymous  04/02/11 02:03 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... R. Belmont  04/01/11 02:23 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... belegdol  04/02/11 09:22 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... R. Belmont  04/02/11 11:29 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... belegdol  04/02/11 12:39 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Solstar  04/02/11 12:55 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... belegdol  04/02/11 01:11 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... R. Belmont  04/02/11 05:43 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... belegdol  04/02/11 06:28 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... R. Belmont  04/02/11 11:29 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Outrun2006  04/02/11 10:35 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Bart T.  04/01/11 05:12 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... JacKc  04/01/11 02:08 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Elratauru  04/01/11 01:57 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... zambr  04/02/11 01:14 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Anonymous  04/01/11 09:49 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/01/11 03:25 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Bart T.  04/01/11 05:06 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... RetroRepair  04/01/11 03:34 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/01/11 04:02 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/01/11 02:16 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... HowardC  04/01/11 02:05 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Bart T.  04/01/11 05:09 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Elratauru  04/01/11 02:46 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Bart T.  04/01/11 05:23 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/01/11 02:51 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... RetroRepair  04/01/11 02:56 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Bart T.  04/01/11 05:17 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/01/11 05:25 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... VirtuaIceMan  04/01/11 03:01 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... CiroConsentino  04/01/11 01:53 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Elratauru  04/01/11 01:09 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Bart T.  04/01/11 11:22 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Elratauru  04/02/11 03:18 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Bart T.  04/02/11 03:59 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Ville Linde  04/01/11 11:50 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Bart T.  04/02/11 12:03 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/01/11 01:21 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/01/11 12:24 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/01/11 01:09 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Elratauru  04/01/11 12:21 PM
. * Scchhwweeett! - nt Naoki  04/01/11 12:04 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Elratauru  04/01/11 11:56 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... MAMu_  04/01/11 11:27 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/01/11 11:43 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/01/11 11:46 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Elratauru  04/01/11 11:09 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Ziggy100  04/01/11 11:39 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... GraphicArts  04/03/11 05:53 PM
. * Re: And the next top model is... MAMu_  04/01/11 10:51 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... pjay  04/01/11 10:26 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... Outrun2006  04/01/11 10:29 AM
. * Re: And the next top model is... HowardC  04/01/11 10:52 AM

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