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Spelunker
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Reged: 06/02/12
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Re: Similar to Linux kernel relicense discussion
10/20/13 09:26 PM


> It doesn't give you that right, or TiVo would not have been able to do what they did.
> The FSF may have thought you should have that right, but they didn't write it into
> the GPL.

Yes, which they have stated was an oversight as they didn't foresee the use of DRM to limit this end user right, and as such they amended this in GPLv3.

> Linksys WAG354G, I think eventually it got sorted out. However GPLv2 doesn't force
> you to provide the necessary tools to build the source code, only that the changes to
> the source code must be made available.

Ah true, it's a GPLv3 addendum aswell (a very good one I think).

> You call it a bug, I'd say that if they thought about preventing the TiVo situation
> then they forgot to write about it in GPLv2. But I believe they didn't come up with
> the scenario. Which is good because otherwise the TiVo would not have used Linux.

Indeed they failed to foresee that scenario, whether or not that is 'good' is purely subjective (I certainly don't see what it is you think Linux gained from being used in Tivo), either way had that condition been a part of GPLv2 then likely Linus would simply have removed that condition and forked GPLv2 as it was the part of GPLv3 he took issue with.

> You say there is no revenue stream and yet you describe a revenue stream.

Non-obligatory donations is nothing like the licence-style revenue you mistakenly attributed to Tivo (of which there is none, I've certainly never seen any indication that Tivo paid the Linux foundation a single cent for using Linux), these companies could stop donating as they are not obliged to.

Of course this is not in reality any problem as Linus would be employed by a company rather than the Linux foundation in no-time, however it is likely better if he as project leader is not tied to any direct company. So this setup is likely favoured.

Meanwhile the vast majority of other full-time kernel developers are employed by companies.

> I'm sure IBM would do the same as TiVo if they were contracted to build some hardware
> that needed DRM.

I'm sure they would but I fail to see your point. Yes this was allowed in GPLv2 due to an oversight, Linus thinks this is a good 'loophole' as he only want the code back, and don't really care or atleast doesn't care that much about the other end user rights which GPL sets to uphold. This is perfectly valid.

FSF who crafted GPL on the other hand, did so in order to provide these end user rights to recipients of GPL licenced software, so from their equally valid standpoint it's a loophole that need so be fixed, hence GPLv3.

Again they (GPLv2, GPLv3) are both options you can choose between for your code, or if you want to leave that choice up to your end users you can use the GPLvx 'or later' clause as is often the case.

> I don't know who is responsible for the kernel DRM
> whether it's TiVo or the hardware partners.

There's no DRM in the Tivo Linux kernel (which of course would then be modified source code which would have to be released as per GPLv2), it likely a locked bootloader style protection which will only load a kernel which has been signed by Tivo and not accept anything else, as such making the hardware a brick beyond Tivo use.







Entire thread
Subject Posted by Posted on
* The end? :( joey35car 10/15/13 11:58 PM
. * Haze go away or leave the rest of the team alone. Plan simple. Dullaron  11/01/13 01:25 PM
. * I call dibs on any code that says "Winners Dont Use Drugs" <nt> italieAdministrator  11/01/13 03:26 AM
. * Re: I call dibs on any code that says "Winners Dont Use Drugs" Vas Crabb  11/01/13 10:28 AM
. * Re: I call dibs on any code that says "Winners Dont Use Drugs" italieAdministrator  11/02/13 08:18 AM
. * Re: I call dibs on any code that says "Winners Dont Use Drugs" Vas Crabb  11/02/13 11:10 AM
. * Re: I call dibs on any code that says "Winners Dont Use Drugs" italieAdministrator  11/02/13 02:02 PM
. * Re: The end? :( SailorSat  10/22/13 12:44 PM
. * Re: The end? :( Chimp  10/17/13 02:54 PM
. * Similar to Linux kernel relicense discussion absence  10/17/13 01:13 PM
. * Re: Similar to Linux kernel relicense discussion R. Belmont  10/17/13 04:57 PM
. * Re: Similar to Linux kernel relicense discussion absence  10/18/13 06:09 PM
. * Re: Similar to Linux kernel relicense discussion Spelunker  10/17/13 06:11 PM
. * Re: Similar to Linux kernel relicense discussion Anonymous  10/19/13 07:27 PM
. * Re: Similar to Linux kernel relicense discussion Spelunker  10/20/13 04:27 PM
. * Re: Similar to Linux kernel relicense discussion Anonymous  10/20/13 07:48 PM
. * Re: Similar to Linux kernel relicense discussion Spelunker  10/20/13 09:26 PM
. * Re: Similar to Linux kernel relicense discussion Anonymous  10/22/13 07:31 AM
. * Regarding the illegal seller drama.... s_bastian  10/17/13 12:47 PM
. * Re: Regarding the illegal seller drama.... Anonymous  10/22/13 07:45 AM
. * Re: Regarding the illegal seller drama.... s_bastian  10/22/13 08:44 AM
. * Re: Regarding the illegal seller drama.... Anonymous  10/22/13 01:47 PM
. * Re: The end? :( Cyberzinho Punk  10/17/13 05:03 AM
. * Re: The end? :( R. Belmont  10/16/13 05:20 PM
. * Re: The end? :( R. Belmont  10/16/13 06:28 PM
. * Re: The end? :( R. Belmont  10/17/13 05:40 PM
. * Re: The end? :( B2K24  10/22/13 05:30 PM
. * Re: The end? :( bdam  10/17/13 07:06 PM
. * Re: The end? :( R. Belmont  10/17/13 09:27 PM
. * Re: The end? :( absence  10/18/13 06:24 PM
. * Re: The end? :( Anonymous  10/19/13 07:42 PM
. * Re: The end? :( SmitdoggAdministrator  10/17/13 01:00 AM
. * Museums StilettoAdministrator  10/17/13 06:22 AM
. * Re: Museums Anonymous  10/17/13 11:03 PM
. * Re: Museums SmitdoggAdministrator  10/17/13 06:33 AM
. * Re: Museums Matty_  10/17/13 07:18 AM
. * Re: Museums SmitdoggAdministrator  10/17/13 02:04 PM
. * Re: Museums gregf  10/17/13 09:29 PM
. * Why not put it to a vote? zambr  10/17/13 04:26 PM
. * Re: Why not put it to a vote? absence  10/18/13 06:05 PM
. * Re: Why not put it to a vote? SmitdoggAdministrator  10/17/13 04:58 PM
. * Re: Why not put it to a vote? Anonymous  10/22/13 07:52 AM
. * Re: Why not put it to a vote? SmitdoggAdministrator  10/22/13 03:01 PM
. * Re: Why not put it to a vote? Anonymous  10/23/13 03:21 AM
. * informative post gregf  10/16/13 06:18 PM
. * Re: informative post etabeta  10/16/13 06:20 PM
. * Re: The end? :( Spelunker  10/16/13 06:01 PM
. * Re: The end? :( Kitsune Sniper  10/17/13 02:49 AM
. * Re: The end? :( R. Belmont  10/16/13 06:36 PM
. * Re: The end? :( RATMNL  10/16/13 08:10 PM
. * Re: The end? :( R. Belmont  10/16/13 08:34 PM
. * Re: The end? :( Spelunker  10/16/13 07:28 PM
. * Re: The end? :( Anonymous  10/16/13 07:45 PM
. * Re: The end? :( R. Belmont  10/16/13 08:40 PM
. * Re: The end? :( Anonymous  10/16/13 10:24 PM
. * Re: The end? :( R. Belmont  10/17/13 05:03 PM
. * Re: The end? :( RATMNL  10/16/13 05:52 PM
. * Re: The end? :( RATMNL  10/16/13 12:51 PM
. * Re: The end? :( RATMNL  10/16/13 12:50 PM
. * Re: The end? :( SmitdoggAdministrator  10/16/13 02:57 PM
. * in response to academia and some museums with opinion of: gregf  10/16/13 06:39 PM
. * Re: in response to academia and some museums with opinion of: etabeta  10/16/13 07:39 PM
. * Re: in response to academia and some museums with opinion of: Anonymous  11/02/13 11:09 AM
. * Re: in response to academia and some museums with opinion of: etabeta  11/03/13 08:35 AM
. * Re: in response to academia and some museums with opinion of: SmitdoggAdministrator  10/17/13 12:43 AM
. * Re: The end? :( jumpmaniac81  10/16/13 05:18 PM
. * Re: The end? :( SmitdoggAdministrator  10/17/13 12:53 AM
. * separate issue gregf  10/16/13 06:51 PM
. * Re: separate issue SmitdoggAdministrator  10/17/13 12:50 AM
. * Re: The end? :( Spelunker  10/16/13 04:25 PM
. * Re: The end? :( etabeta  10/16/13 04:57 PM
. * Re: The end? :( Spelunker  10/16/13 05:35 PM
. * Re: The end? :( scarlet  10/16/13 10:25 AM
. * Re: The end? :( jonwil  10/16/13 05:00 AM
. * Re: The end? :( DJ_Infinity  10/16/13 04:03 AM
. * Re: The end? :( Spelunker  10/16/13 02:32 AM
. * Re: The end? :( R. Belmont  10/16/13 05:39 PM
. * Re: The end? :( Spelunker  10/16/13 06:03 PM
. * Will someone please explain? Antny  10/16/13 03:03 AM
. * Re: Will someone please explain? etabeta  10/16/13 08:10 AM
. * Re: Will someone please explain? Big Karnak  10/17/13 07:07 AM
. * Re: Will someone please explain? etabeta  10/17/13 07:35 AM
. * Re: Will someone please explain? Big Karnak  10/17/13 08:49 AM
. * Re: Will someone please explain? Lewis King  10/17/13 02:54 PM
. * Re: Will someone please explain? Sune  10/17/13 09:55 AM
. * Re: Will someone please explain? Firehawke  10/17/13 10:02 AM
. * Re: Will someone please explain? Sune  10/17/13 10:07 AM
. * Re: Will someone please explain? ranger_lennier  10/17/13 11:40 AM
. * Re: Will someone please explain? casm  10/16/13 03:12 AM
. * Re: Will someone please explain? DMala  10/16/13 05:38 AM
. * Re: Will someone please explain? Kitsune Sniper  10/16/13 07:06 AM
. * Re: Will someone please explain? Big Karnak  10/16/13 06:56 AM
. * Re: The end? :( casm  10/16/13 03:01 AM
. * Re: The end? :( Spelunker  10/16/13 05:14 AM
. * Re: The end? :( casm  10/16/13 09:36 AM
. * Re: The end? :( SmitdoggAdministrator  10/16/13 03:47 PM
. * Re: The end? :( tamalmalamarrado  10/16/13 04:10 PM
. * Re: The end? :( Spelunker  10/16/13 01:47 PM
. * Re: The end? :( Matty_  10/16/13 05:20 AM
. * Re: The end? :( Matty_  10/16/13 03:03 AM
. * Re: The end? :( Matty_  10/16/13 02:37 AM
. * Re: The end? :( Spelunker  10/16/13 05:09 AM
. * Re: The end? :( R. Belmont  10/16/13 05:52 PM
. * Re: The end? :( Anonymous  10/22/13 07:57 AM
. * Re: The end? :( etabeta  10/22/13 11:51 AM
. * Re: The end? :( Anonymous  10/22/13 01:56 PM
. * Re: The end? :( etabeta  10/16/13 07:59 AM
. * Re: The end? :( Matty_  10/16/13 05:18 AM
. * Re: The end? :( Spelunker  10/16/13 05:33 AM
. * Re: The end? :( jumpmaniac81  10/16/13 01:33 AM
. * Re: The end? :( RetroRepair  10/16/13 02:04 AM
. * Haze just freaking out over changes that all. Dullaron  10/16/13 01:21 AM
. * Re: The end? :( gamez fan  10/16/13 01:02 AM
. * Re: The end? :( Lord Nightmare  10/16/13 02:47 AM
. * Re: The end? :( Lewis King  10/17/13 01:04 AM
. * Re: The end? :( casm  10/16/13 03:04 AM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) Lord Nightmare  10/16/13 03:17 AM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) Anonymous  10/16/13 11:28 AM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) goofy123  10/16/13 12:00 PM
. * you don't know what you're talking about... *nt* etabeta  10/16/13 02:11 PM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) Anonymous  10/16/13 01:16 PM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) Spelunker  10/16/13 01:53 PM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) Anonymous  10/19/13 07:35 PM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) Spelunker  10/20/13 04:37 PM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) etabeta  10/21/13 09:19 AM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) Anonymous  10/22/13 08:00 AM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) Big Karnak  10/21/13 10:14 AM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) Matty_  10/21/13 10:42 AM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) Big Karnak  10/22/13 05:22 AM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) Mr. DoAdministrator  10/22/13 06:22 AM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) Anonymous  10/22/13 08:05 AM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) etabeta  10/22/13 11:50 AM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) Anonymous  10/22/13 01:50 PM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) SmitdoggAdministrator  10/22/13 06:18 PM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) Lord Nightmare  10/22/13 09:11 PM
. * Re: The end? :( (edited) Lewis King  10/21/13 03:41 PM
. * Re: The end? :( casm  10/16/13 03:30 AM
. * Re: The end? :( Lord Nightmare  10/16/13 03:55 AM
. * Re: The end? :( MetalliC  10/16/13 04:37 AM
. * Re: The end? :( Lord Nightmare  10/16/13 05:16 AM
. * Re: The end? :( Matty_  10/16/13 04:50 AM
. * OSI-MAME... Ich glaub mir wird gleich schlecht! MASH  10/16/13 02:57 AM
. * Re: OSI-MAME... Ich glaub mir wird gleich schlecht! Lord Nightmare  10/16/13 03:00 AM
. * Re: OSI-MAME... Ich glaub mir wird gleich schlecht! DMala  10/16/13 04:59 AM
. * Re: OSI-MAME... Ich glaub mir wird gleich schlecht! R. Belmont  10/16/13 05:22 PM
. * Re: OSI-MAME... Ich glaub mir wird gleich schlecht! etabeta  10/16/13 07:43 AM

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