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uman
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Need help for Vectrex Overlay Files
#358167 - 09/01/16 10:44 AM


Hi,

I have vectorized now over the half of the full (official) set from Vectrex, but i am not satisfied with the tint result. I would like to have a tint effect like in this picture:



Notice that the drawn vectors are only slightly tinted by the color of the overlay.

My Overlay files currently looks like this:



*note: this not the actual quality, the files are way sharper and 4k resolution, but my image hoster doesnt allow anything above 1024 pixels. Feel free to tell me one, that is free and can do more .

As you see, the vectors are tinted completely, no matter how transparent i make the overlay sections (done in Photoshop with 20% transparency in this case here).
Now R. Belmont told me that there is a alpha parameter that may control the tint effect.

I have gone through this documentation:
http://wiki.mamedev.org/index.php/Layouts_and_Rendering_for_MAME_Artwork_System

and this:
http://wiki.mamedev.org/index.php/LAY_File_Basics_-_Part_I

but i understand it only partially and i am really sorry for this. I did a lot of tests yesterday, with the colorvalues and and the alpha parameter, only to find out, that it does quite the opposite of what i want to achieve. I had some success by using very bright (nearly white) overlay colors in conjunction with HLSL and the floor parameter, but this method have the downside that the overlay colours would change to a degree, that the whole thing is not accurate anymore and would way to far differ from the colors of a original overlay file. Just look at the first picture, it has a deep, dark green and blue color, but the drawn vectors are only very lightly tinted.

If someone is good at this, he can do me a favor and create a example with the current artwork Vectrex .lay file, that would be nice. I need only one game, just to understand the logic. Thx in advance.

Maybe its also just not possible to create a very light tint, i dont know. I wished we would have blending options like the ones in Photoshop (overlay, color dodge etc.).



Mr. DoAdministrator
MAME Art Editor
Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 4856
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Re: Need help for Vectrex Overlay Files new [Re: uman]
#358206 - 09/02/16 10:52 AM Attachment: temp.png 103 KB (2 downloads)


Don't use the element as an overlay... I think that's what you're looking for.

When an element is set as an overlay, the screen and artwork are blended, so the final result you see is how it would look in a game like Space Invaders, where the monitor is lying down in the cabinet, with the overlay on top, then projected via mirror so the user can see it.

When an element is set as a bezel, with a color alpha of around 0.7, you should get the same effect as a vectrex, where you can visibly see both the monitor and overlay.

The existing vectrex artwork, now, the opacity is already built into the artwork file. This is why there is no color alpha setting in the current artwork.

As an example, in the screenshot below, I took the current artwork, simply deleted the overlay element, and just played the game using the artwork as a bezel. Is that close to what you're looking for?

Assuming you are cleaning up the current files as is, then you would need to add the color alpha setting on the bezel element, and play with it until you found the one you feel happy with.

That all make sense?


> Hi,
>
> I have vectorized now over the half of the full (official) set from Vectrex, but i am
> not satisfied with the tint result. I would like to have a tint effect like in this
> picture:
>
>
> Notice that the drawn vectors are only slightly tinted by the color of the overlay.
>
> My Overlay files currently looks like this:
>
>
> *note: this not the actual quality, the files are way sharper and 4k resolution, but
> my image hoster doesnt allow anything above 1024 pixels. Feel free to tell me one,
> that is free and can do more .
>
> As you see, the vectors are tinted completely, no matter how transparent i make the
> overlay sections (done in Photoshop with 20% transparency in this case here).
> Now R. Belmont told me that there is a alpha parameter that may control the tint
> effect.
>
> I have gone through this documentation:
> http://wiki.mamedev.org/index.php/Layouts_and_Rendering_for_MAME_Artwork_System
>
> and this:
> http://wiki.mamedev.org/index.php/LAY_File_Basics_-_Part_I
>
> but i understand it only partially and i am really sorry for this. I did a lot of
> tests yesterday, with the colorvalues and and the alpha parameter, only to find out,
> that it does quite the opposite of what i want to achieve. I had some success by
> using very bright (nearly white) overlay colors in conjunction with HLSL and the
> floor parameter, but this method have the downside that the overlay colours would
> change to a degree, that the whole thing is not accurate anymore and would way to far
> differ from the colors of a original overlay file. Just look at the first picture, it
> has a deep, dark green and blue color, but the drawn vectors are only very lightly
> tinted.
>
> If someone is good at this, he can do me a favor and create a example with the
> current artwork Vectrex .lay file, that would be nice. I need only one game, just to
> understand the logic. Thx in advance.
>
> Maybe its also just not possible to create a very light tint, i dont know. I wished
> we would have blending options like the ones in Photoshop (overlay, color dodge
> etc.).

[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]

Attachment




RELAX and just have fun. Remember, it's all about the games.




uman
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Reged: 04/15/12
Posts: 455
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Re: Need help for Vectrex Overlay Files new [Re: Mr. Do]
#358212 - 09/02/16 01:29 PM


> Don't use the element as an overlay... I think that's what you're looking for.
>
> When an element is set as an overlay, the screen and artwork are blended, so the
> final result you see is how it would look in a game like Space Invaders, where the
> monitor is lying down in the cabinet, with the overlay on top, then projected via
> mirror so the user can see it.
>
> When an element is set as a bezel, with a color alpha of around 0.7, you should get
> the same effect as a vectrex, where you can visibly see both the monitor and overlay.
>
> The existing vectrex artwork, now, the opacity is already built into the artwork
> file. This is why there is no color alpha setting in the current artwork.
>
> As an example, in the screenshot below, I took the current artwork, simply deleted
> the overlay element, and just played the game using the artwork as a bezel. Is that
> close to what you're looking for?
>
> Assuming you are cleaning up the current files as is, then you would need to add the
> color alpha setting on the bezel element, and play with it until you found the one
> you feel happy with.
>
> That all make sense?

It all makes sense and I was looking exactly for this, thanks Mr. Do.
So it is safe to say, that the current Vectrex .lay file is wrong? I deleted every overlay section in the .lay file and all my work looks great now. Dont know why they even where in the .lay file

My overlays are a Photoshop file and are all vectorized. I save them out of Photoshop as a .png, like the current ones with transparency included in the .png. But I want to finish them, with bezel and clips, maybe with the whole console. I would need a decent photo of the bottom section of the Vectrex (like in my first picture posted). I own a real one, but dont have any good camera, just a i-phone, which is not good enough.

In the finished state, i would like to have the following options for a user:

Vectrex Bezel + Clips (done)
Vectrex Bezel + Overlay + Clips (done)
Whole Vectrex Front
Whole Vectrex Front + Overlay

A nice bonus would be including connected controller cables, depending on how many players are selected and a working volume knob, depending on volume settings.

But like I said, I need a good picture of the bottom section, without a controller connected.

Any help with this would be great, especially creating a proper .lay file at the end, if the whole Vectrex front is included, as i never understood the logic behind this task (problems with the coordinates etc.).



Mr. DoAdministrator
MAME Art Editor
Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 4856
Loc: California
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Re: Need help for Vectrex Overlay Files new [Re: uman]
#358324 - 09/05/16 05:52 AM



> It all makes sense and I was looking exactly for this, thanks Mr. Do.
> So it is safe to say, that the current Vectrex .lay file is wrong? I deleted every
> overlay section in the .lay file and all my work looks great now. Dont know why they
> even where in the .lay file
>
> My overlays are a Photoshop file and are all vectorized. I save them out of Photoshop
> as a .png, like the current ones with transparency included in the .png. But I want
> to finish them, with bezel and clips, maybe with the whole console. I would need a
> decent photo of the bottom section of the Vectrex (like in my first picture posted).
> I own a real one, but dont have any good camera, just a i-phone, which is not good
> enough.
>
> In the finished state, i would like to have the following options for a user:
>
> Vectrex Bezel + Clips (done)
> Vectrex Bezel + Overlay + Clips (done)
> Whole Vectrex Front
> Whole Vectrex Front + Overlay
>
> A nice bonus would be including connected controller cables, depending on how many
> players are selected and a working volume knob, depending on volume settings.
>
> But like I said, I need a good picture of the bottom section, without a controller
> connected.
>
> Any help with this would be great, especially creating a proper .lay file at the end,
> if the whole Vectrex front is included, as i never understood the logic behind this
> task (problems with the coordinates etc.).


The old one isn't wrong, so to speak, as much as personal preference of the last person that did that file. Some people are going to like it with the overlay colors... your preference is different.

Personally... since the option is there for a person to turn the overlay on or off, it's more flexible if you leave it the way it is. Then for people that want to run it the way you like better, they can just go into Options and turn off Overlays for that system.

Shouldn't be too hard to incorporate everything you want... but like you said, the hard part is getting the quality pics to start with. From there, it's pretty straight forward.

Any help you need... no problem. Just let me know.




RELAX and just have fun. Remember, it's all about the games.




uman
MAME Fan
Reged: 04/15/12
Posts: 455
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Re: Need help for Vectrex Overlay Files new [Re: Mr. Do]
#358329 - 09/05/16 02:58 PM Attachment: Vectrex_Overlays.zip 2089 KB (20 downloads)


> The old one isn't wrong, so to speak, as much as personal preference of the last
> person that did that file. Some people are going to like it with the overlay
> colors... your preference is different.
>
> Personally... since the option is there for a person to turn the overlay on or off,
> it's more flexible if you leave it the way it is. Then for people that want to run it
> the way you like better, they can just go into Options and turn off Overlays for that
> system.

Ok, now I understand and it works the way, you wrote. I reverted everything now. Its not my preference, it just look more natural and comes closer to the real thing. To be honest, a mixture of both would be best.

As we all now, that vector monitors cant be currently represented to its full glory (especially with their glow), the overlays can greatly enhance this "look" and reduce the problems, that we have with LCD screens and their problems with limited color range. Because they filter out a lot of the "magic" glow, giving us more closer to the real thing options. Thats why i prefered that look. Once pc-monitors with HDR are available for the mass market, things could change, to have the same experience, like the real machines. Thankfully Jezze did awesome improvements with HLSL, regarding vector-games.

> Shouldn't be too hard to incorporate everything you want... but like you said, the
> hard part is getting the quality pics to start with. From there, it's pretty straight
> forward.
>
> Any help you need... no problem. Just let me know.

Thanks to user Edstrom (from emuversal), who provided me a nice picture from his Vectrex yesterday, i have attached you pictures from the Vectrex (wich is not final and need some further cosmetic work, but with the final size) and a overlay dummy (with final size). Sadly the image size is not enough for a rotated 4k display, but ok for a horizontal 4k view. It is good enough for WQHD in both states.

I hope you can create a proper layfile for me, so i have some motivation for my work and can experiment with the final look .

I dont know, if its a problem to later add a inserted cartridge on the side of the Vectrex. It would be a option that i want to add, if used with a 16:9 horizontal view, as there is plenty of room on the sides, maybe even for a controller. I wouldnt like to create extra work for you, by creating another layfile .

Like i said, i have no clue, what else things can be done with the artwork layfile system. Are those things like the turning volume knob and connected controllers possible?

Anyway, many thanks so far. I am pretty sure, this will be a nice artwork package, once it reach the final state.



uman
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Reged: 04/15/12
Posts: 455
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Re: Need help for Vectrex Overlay Files new [Re: uman]
#358516 - 09/10/16 10:11 AM Attachment: Vectrex_Overlays_Tests.zip 1723 KB (48 downloads)


WIP:



uman
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Reged: 04/15/12
Posts: 455
Send PM


Re: Need help for Vectrex Overlay Files new [Re: Mr. Do]
#359623 - 10/13/16 09:47 AM


> > Any help you need... no problem. Just let me know.

Well, i have finished now nearly all overlays, there are only 4 left. One of them is "Star Castle". Sadly i have this overlay only in bad quality (like 1200x1540 pixels) and i just wanted to ask, if you (or somebody else here) could provide me a better scan of that overlay.

Star Castle has a lot of fine thin lines and it is currently impossible for me, to vectorize it, in a accurate way.

I hope i will finish everything till the next release of MAME, but it is looking good .



Trebor
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Reged: 01/18/05
Posts: 508
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Re: Need help for Vectrex Overlay Files new [Re: uman]
#362744 - 01/20/17 03:33 PM


> > > Any help you need... no problem. Just let me know.
>
> Well, i have finished now nearly all overlays, there are only 4 left. One of them is
> "Star Castle". Sadly i have this overlay only in bad quality (like 1200x1540 pixels)
> and i just wanted to ask, if you (or somebody else here) could provide me a better
> scan of that overlay.
>
> Star Castle has a lot of fine thin lines and it is currently impossible for me, to
> vectorize it, in a accurate way.
>
> I hope i will finish everything till the next release of MAME, but it is looking good
> .

It's really great to know the Vectrex overlays are receiving a much needed update. Thank you.


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