| *=/STARRIDER\=* |
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MAME Punk
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Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
#295017 - 09/04/12 04:06 AM
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I just pulled out the temp. to give it a good looking over.
There is a shit load of info on that mofo!
Got my name, address, weight, eye/hair color, They EVEN put my fucking picture on it!!!!
Glad I don't have to show one to vote!
I would love to see a documentary about how the drivers license came about and was established nationally. I bet it would be impossible today.
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italie |
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MAME owes italie many thank yous, hah
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: *=/STARRIDER\=*]
#295019 - 09/04/12 04:20 AM
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> I just pulled out the temp. to give it a good looking over.
> There is a shit load of info on that mofo!
> Got my name, address, weight, eye/hair color, They EVEN put my fucking picture on
> it!!!!
>
> Glad I don't have to show one to vote!
>
> I would love to see a documentary about how the drivers license came about and was
> established nationally. I bet it would be impossible today.
I'm not sure I understand. Isn't it ~supposed~ to identify you?
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| *=/STARRIDER\=* |
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MAME Punk
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: italie]
#295020 - 09/04/12 04:30 AM
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It's called Sarcasm, but really you don't get it???
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| GatKong |
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Tetris Mason
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: italie]
#295021 - 09/04/12 04:31 AM
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> I'm not sure I understand. Isn't it ~supposed~ to identify you?
I think that's his point. A Federal court just shot down Texas' voter ID law, on the premise that having to show an ID, even a free one provided by the state, to get your ballot is too much for minorities to manage.
Personally, I think THAT's racist... to assume that just because someone is a minority, they are too inept to even manage to obtain a free state issued ID at some point in their lifetime. It's this kind of insanity that has me wanting to click my heals together, say "There's no place like home" and find myself waking up in bed, and the whole mentally insane government was just a bad dream.
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: GatKong]
#295032 - 09/04/12 06:16 AM
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> > I'm not sure I understand. Isn't it ~supposed~ to identify you?
>
> I think that's his point. A Federal court just shot down Texas' voter ID law, on the
> premise that having to show an ID, even a free one provided by the state, to get your
> ballot is too much for minorities to manage.
>
> Personally, I think THAT's racist... to assume that just because someone is a
> minority, they are too inept to even manage to obtain a free state issued ID at some
> point in their lifetime. It's this kind of insanity that has me wanting to click my
> heals together, say "There's no place like home" and find myself waking up in bed,
> and the whole mentally insane government was just a bad dream.
Well, of course in Texas, "minorities" is code for illegal immigrants.
Wasn't there something recently about requiring that states allow illegals to get driver's licenses?
I recall a comment by someone local that that was rather incompatible with state law, due to the ID requirements for citizens and LEGAL immigrants:
Quote:
At Least One Primary Document
At Least One Secondary Document
Verifiable Social Security Number
Proof of Address
Six points of ID
You must show at least ONE of these:
4-POINT DOCUMENTS:
CITIZENS:
-Civil birth certificate or certified copy from one of
the 50 states, District of Columbia or a US territory.
Photocopies or certificates from hospitals or religious
entities are not accepted.
-US Department of State birth certificate
(Form FS-545,FS 240 or DS-1350)
-US passport, current or expired less than
3 years
-Current US Passport card
-Current NJ digital driver license
-Current NJ digital non-driver ID card
-Current NJ digital boat license
-Valid active duty US military photo ID card
-US adoption papers
-Certificate of naturalization (Form N-550,N-570
or N-578)
-Certificate of citizenship (Form N-560,N-561 or N-645)
NON CITIZENS
-Foreign passport with INS or USCIS verification and valid
record of arrival/departure (Form I-94)
-Foreign passport with INS or USCIS verification and valid
Form I-551 stamp
-Current alien registration card (new Form I-551) with expiration
date and verification from INS or USCIS
-Refugee travel document (Form I-571)
-US re-entry permit (Form I-327)
-Valid I-94 stamped “Refugee,” “Parolee,” “Asylee” or “Notice
of Action” (Form I-797 approved petition) by INS or USCIS
-Valid I-94 with attached photo stamped “Processed for I-551…” by
INS or USCIS
3-POINT DOCUMENTS:
-Current photo employment authorization card (Form I-688B
or I-766).
2-POINT DOCUMENTS:
-Current alien registration card (old Form I-551) without
expiration date and with INS or USCIS verification
-Photo temporary resident card (Form I-688)
You must show at least ONE of these:
3-POINT DOCUMENTS:
-Civil marriage, domestic partnership or civil union certificate
issued by the municipality or state in which the ceremony
occurred. Please note: Photocopies or certificates issued by
religious entities are not acceptable
-Order or decree of divorce, dissolution or termination*
-Court order for a legal name change, signed by a judge or
court clerk
-Current US military dependent card
-US military photo retiree card
-Valid NJ firearm purchaser card
2-POINT DOCUMENTS:
-US school photo ID card with transcript or school records
-US college photo ID card with transcript
-Valid federal, state or local government employee
driver license
-Valid federal, state or local government employee photo
ID card
-US military discharge papers (DD214)
-FAA pilot license
1-POINT DOCUMENTS:
[ You cannot use more than TWO of these ]
-Current/expired less than one year non-digital NJ PHOTO
driver license
-Current PHOTO driver license from any other state or the
District of Columbia
-Social Security card
-Bank statement or record
-ATM card with preprinted name and applicant’s signature.
(Please note: An ATM card and bank statement cannot be
submitted together.)
-Current health insurance card, prescription card
-Employee ID card with printed pay stub
-State professional license
-NJ public assistance card with photo (also known as a NJ
Social Services ID card)
-High school diploma, GED or college diploma
-Property tax statement, bill or receipt issued by a
New Jersey municipality
-For NJ high school students: a waiver certificate for the
written portion of the driver’s test
-Veterans Affairs universal access photo ID card
BTW, at the polls, I've never been asked to show ID, not even my voter registration card.
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| *=/STARRIDER\=* |
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MAME Punk
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Reged: 02/06/12
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Posts: 328
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Loc: an open field west of a white house with a boarded front door.
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Someone get this man a Balloon!
[Re: TriggerFin]
#295034 - 09/04/12 06:27 AM
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"BTW, at the polls, I've never been asked to show ID, not even my voter registration card."
The election process used in Iraq with the purple thumb probably works better than ours!
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: GatKong]
#295035 - 09/04/12 06:30 AM
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I think people are missing the point in these arguments.
In most large cities that have decent public transportation, a large portion of the population doesn't have a car. If you don't have a car, there's not a whole lot of incentive to pay for a driver's license and keep it current every 4 years or whatever.
The no-car/no-license group crosses demographic lines. It's not just poor minorities.
The real issue is that the populations of cities tend to be heavily Democrat. This is the sole reason why the Republican party is pushing so hard for the voter ID laws.
There's no actual fraud. It's just invented boogeymen to scare people into agreeing with them. Just think about it... In the absence of a photo ID requirement, if I go and pretend to be someone else and vote in their place, what happens when the real person actually shows up to vote? If the fraud was a rampant as the pro-ID people imply, the scenario I described would have happened multiple times. There would be records of it happening, and it would be on the news.
If you think about it, the real fraud, if it actually exists, would likely be happening with absentee ballots. You don't have to go to a physical polling place and talk to anyone. You just fill it out and mail it in. However, nobody is pushing for outlawing absentee ballots.
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GroovyMAME support forum on BYOAC
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| Tomu Breidah |
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No Problems, Only Solutions
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Posts: 6815
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Loc: Neither here, nor there.
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: krick]
#295044 - 09/04/12 10:43 AM
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> There's no actual fraud. It's just invented boogeymen to scare people into agreeing
> with them. Just think about it... In the absence of a photo ID requirement, if I go
> and pretend to be someone else and vote in their place, what happens when the real
> person actually shows up to vote? If the fraud was a rampant as the pro-ID people
> imply, the scenario I described would have happened multiple times. There would be
> records of it happening, and it would be on the news.
>
How about 30,000 Boogey Men? 
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: krick]
#295051 - 09/04/12 01:24 PM
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> If you think about it, the real fraud, if it actually exists, would likely be
> happening with absentee ballots. You don't have to go to a physical polling place and
> talk to anyone. You just fill it out and mail it in. However, nobody is pushing for
> outlawing absentee ballots.
Well in Australia, there's plenty of "vote early, vote often fraud" - they ask you to show some kind of ID, and they cross your name off the roll. Trouble is they don't communicate between polling stations, so you can vote at multiple polling stations in each election. Also, since it doesn't have to be photo ID (it can be an expired credit card, a paper voter registration card, etc.) you end up with plenty of people voting for dead people. Dead people often get recorded as voting at multiple polling stations. They don't really want to do much about it and hope that it benefits all parties roughly proportionally.
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: Tomu Breidah]
#295057 - 09/04/12 04:37 PM
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>
> How about 30,000 Boogey Men?
Did you actually *read* the article you linked, or just the headline?
Of course there's dead people still registered to vote. It doesn't mean that there's fraudulent voting using their names. There's no systematic procedure to remove someone from the voter roll when they die. Maybe the Social Security system needs to be hooked into the state and local voting system so that they can do cross-checks to remove people when they die. Even with that, there would still be problems positively identifying people who move outside their voting area (or even to another state) before dying. They don't require a Social Security number to register to vote, so the chance of having false matches when trying to prune the voter roll would be pretty high.
There's historically been an anonymity to voting. Imagine if husbands could easily see who/what their wife voted for. Just picture the spike in domestic violence in heavy red states when a husband finds out his wife voted for Obama, or to legalize same-sex marriage, or for women's reproductive rights. Not pretty.
With anonymity, comes a certain amount of risk that there might be fraud. You can't have it both ways. Hopefully, the fraud is roughly equal on both sides and cancels each other out.
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GroovyMAME support forum on BYOAC
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Re: Someone get this man a Balloon!
[Re: *=/STARRIDER\=*]
#295058 - 09/04/12 05:28 PM
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> The election process used in Iraq with the purple thumb probably works better than
> ours!
Really, why don't they use purple thumbs here in the USA?
(Because it discriminates against people without thumbs, perhaps?)
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#295064 - 09/04/12 07:09 PM
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So is that how a woman comes to power. A bunch of crazy pmsers with bloodshot eyes put the pedal to the metal zipping across voting stations. Pretty sweet technology you got there. Killer apps.
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| GatKong |
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Tetris Mason
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Reged: 04/20/07
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: krick]
#295066 - 09/04/12 07:13 PM
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>Of course there's dead people still registered to vote. It doesn't mean that there's fraudulent voting using their names.
Voter fraud sways elections... In Minnesota, a close race was decided by dead voters and felons.
Al Frankin won with a margin of 312 votes.
2812 Dead people voted in That election
341 convicted felons voted too.
Its not about what party benefits from voter fraud, its about the integrity of our democratic process and the legitimacy of our government. This same senate seat also changed the senate majority party, dramatically changing the national political landscape. Voter fraud is as big an issue as outright civil war or a military coup is.
Regardless of party affiliation, EVERY American should be concerned. Anything less is tolerating blatent corruption.
Edited by Gatinho (09/04/12 07:31 PM)
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: GatKong]
#295067 - 09/04/12 07:46 PM
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How can you say that the race was decided by dead voters and felons? Assuming the fraud actually happened, how do you know that they didn't all vote for Norm Coleman?
And why shouldn't convicted felons be allowed to vote? Aren't they still citizens?
Sometimes, the system isn't perfect but we have to live with the potential of fraud in order for it to work the way it was originally intended. Freedom and privacy trump everything else.
When I go to vote, I need to sign the book and someone compares my signature to the signature from the previous year. That's more than enough security.
Ultimately, Al Franken won because of the Seventeenth Amendment.
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| GatKong |
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Tetris Mason
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Reged: 04/20/07
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Posts: 5904
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Loc: Sector 9
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: krick]
#295076 - 09/04/12 09:14 PM
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>Assuming the fraud actually happened, how do you know that they didn't all vote for Norm Coleman?
Why does it matter who benefitted?
Your question misses the real point that voter fraud is taking place... not which party benefits the most.
So... if it first matters who benefits from that fraud... then your question is a self-conscious one, which is to say, does this fraud benefit my interests or not, and after I determine rather or not it benefits my interests,THEN I'll decide how I feel about it.
But your question highlights this reality... that one party is working hard to close opportunities for voter fraud, and the other party is working hard to keep those opportunities open.
One party wants voter IDs, the other has filed lawsuits to stop it.
One party wants to purge dead people from the voter rolls, the other has filed lawsuits to stop it.
One party wants to purge non-citezens from the rolls, the other party has filed lawsuits to stop it.
So... based on their actions, one can assume that one party is hedging it's bets that it benefits from voter fraud. I'll let you guess which party that is... but we all already know... and it wasn't Norm Coleman's party. That should answer your question... we all seem to know how dead people and felons vote without having to do any studies to find out.
But why do we already know? Why is it an implied understanding which party is aligned with corruption, fraud, and organized crime? So why don't we care? Is it because it benefits our own interests at the expense of fair and free elections? Would you support a military coup if your chosen leader were put in place? How is that different?
Because if it didn't matter WHO benefitted... then both parties would be working together to stop voter fraud... but their not.
And that forces social liberals like me to have to side with zealous crackpots on the right because they are the only party that fights for a lawful constitutional government... and in my opinion, it doesn't matter what social justices get pushed through in the short term, if you forgo your liberties to achieve them, then you're only one corrupt illegitimate administration away from having them all taken away again.
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: GatKong]
#295080 - 09/04/12 10:18 PM
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Again, you're missing the point.
There is no systemic voter fraud taking place. It's a boogeyman invented by the Republican party to push their agenda. People can cite sources all day where dead people are still on voter rolls, but it doesn't mean that actual fraud is happening in that manner. The most likely vector for voter fraud is absentee ballots, which nobody seems to give a damn about, presumably because they're heavily used by older white voters.
In an effort to "eliminate" voter fraud by requiring a photo ID like a driver's license, they are in effect enacting a poll tax. Getting a photo ID isn't free. Maybe it should be, but it's currently not.
I'd gladly support a push for a photo voter ID that is completely free to replace the current voter registration cards we currently have. Or how about this, require that states offer free photo IDs to registered voters who don't drive, and even better, allow them to get them on voting day if they want. Of course, then you're getting into the murky water of state's rights. Does the Federal Govt have the authority to require all states offer free photo voter IDs?
I'm not against tightening up the current system, as long as it doesn't create disenfranchised voters. We should be always looking for ways to get more people to vote, not less. If you make it even more of a hassle than it already is, people just won't do it.
Finally, I'd like to address the issue of convicted felons voting. Just so you know, not all convicted felons are prohibited from voting. It depends on where they live, how long since they committed the crime, and the specific laws that apply to them. It's complicated. There's a pretty good article here...
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1789/why-cant-felons-vote
Assuming you agree that felons shouldn't vote, which I do not, the fact is that many felons who have voted didn't know that they weren't allowed to vote (see complicated laws above), and requiring a photo ID wouldn't do anything to prevent that unless their photo ID had "CONVICTED FELON" in large letters across the front along with the date of the infraction, and even then, it would be up to the people working the polling place to know their state laws about felons and voting and how to apply them correctly to each case.
As a side note, did you know that Texas has the highest prison population in the united states? They build giant prisons and take inmates from other states. This population counts toward the total population for government representation and redistricting, even though they cannot vote. More info...
http://www.prisonersofthecensus.org/impact.html
The prison system is big business as well. States with large prison populations rake in quite a bit of federal funding for the prison system based on the headcount in their prisons. More inmates = more money. They just want to make sure that none of those heads can vote.
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| GatKong |
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Tetris Mason
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: krick]
#295090 - 09/05/12 12:39 AM
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>There is no systemic voter fraud taking place.
I'm not as confident as you are about that.
> I'd gladly support a push for a photo voter ID that is completely free
We're on the same page. Texas charges $16 for the ID which is dumb. Had the ID been free is wouldn't have been shot down by the Fed Courts as a poll tax. Neither party seems to be getting this right, which is why I think the country is insane. Do the right thing, people! Sheesh.
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: krick]
#295091 - 09/05/12 01:02 AM
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>There's no actual fraud. It's just invented boogeymen to scare people into agreeing with >them. Just think about it... In the absence of a photo ID requirement, if I go and >pretend to be someone else and vote in their place, what happens when the real person >actually shows up to vote? If the fraud was a rampant as the pro-ID people imply, the >scenario I described would have happened multiple times. There would be records of it >happening, and it would be on the news.
How do you know, the news? That's funny. 8 bazillion people are having the identity stolen each year. I'll bet there's plenty of voter fraud. The government is too inept to catch it. I need to show my ID for a check, or use my credit card. Why not to vote?
It's too hard for some? IIRC they found out here in the Miami that dead people were voting. And they say there is no after life.....
Interesting the same people bitched when they wanted to drug test all the welfare recipients in Florida. The government coddles them from cradle to grave (on my tax dollars) why shouldn't they be drug tested? If I get a job at Home Depot, I have to submit to a drug test. But we don't want to inconvenince the freeloaders. What a fucking joke.
Edited by Antny (09/05/12 02:36 AM)
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: GatKong]
#295092 - 09/05/12 01:14 AM
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I agree with all your posts Gat. You are right on the money. Privacy? The outcome is paramount. The only ones that are bitching about the ID thing are the ones that benefit from the fraud. Who are the convicts voting for? The illegals? Oh, I'm sorry the undocumented.
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: GatKong]
#295098 - 09/05/12 01:49 AM
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> Al Frankin won with a margin of 312 votes.
>
> 2812 Dead people voted in That election
>
>
> 341 convicted felons voted too.
Replacing first-past-the-post with a preferential voting system would largely mitigate this problem.
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: Smitdogg]
#295099 - 09/05/12 01:51 AM
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> So is that how a woman comes to power. A bunch of crazy pmsers with bloodshot eyes
> put the pedal to the metal zipping across voting stations. Pretty sweet technology
> you got there. Killer apps.
Nah, the other party is just as bad for vote early, vote often. She came to power because a couple of independent MPs backstabbed their electorates when offered empty promises that she reneged on as soon as she didn't need them any more.
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| *=/STARRIDER\=* |
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MAME Punk
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Reged: 02/06/12
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Posts: 328
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Loc: an open field west of a white house with a boarded front door.
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That is amusing!
[Re: amused]
#295106 - 09/05/12 03:04 AM
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| italie |
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MAME owes italie many thank yous, hah
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Re: Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
[Re: *=/STARRIDER\=*]
#295110 - 09/05/12 04:17 AM
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> It's called Sarcasm, but really you don't get it???
no, no I don't.
I guess I'll just sit back and quote random things that seem appropriate.
Quote:
The major problem — one of the major problems, for there are several — one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.
To summarize: it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem.
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| GatKong |
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Tetris Mason
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You nailed it! Just in the news today!
[Re: krick]
#295171 - 09/06/12 03:26 PM
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Index 
Threaded 
Renewed my Drivers License Friday morning.
Reply
[Re: 
