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Marioluigi64
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Reged: 07/05/09
Posts: 3
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New MAME HTPC
#289679 - 06/17/12 10:39 AM


Hi guys!

I am in the beginning stages of building a new HTPC meant to run xbmc and emulators. Neither Ivy Bridge or AMD Trinity are enough of a step up from previous generations to woo me over to the brand new stuff so I am looking at two options, hoping to pick one up on the cheap sometime in the near future:

1) Intel Sandy Bridge i3-2130
2) AMD Llano A8-3870k (and overclocking it)

I want to be able to run NFL Blitz and Gauntlet Legends at full speed. I get the feeling both CPUs will be able to (just by looking at MAME benchmarks for other CPUs and making my own estimates from those), but if somebody out there runs either setup, could you confirm (or shoot down) that thought for me?

Also, I know this is a different emulator, but a nice bonus for me would be to be able to run bsnes accuracy profile (specifically the most demanding part of the most demanding game, the title screen of Yoshi's Island) at full speed. If whoever answers the first question also runs bsnes, could you let me know if that is possible? If not, no biggie, it's not that important


Thanks a bunch!



Firehawke
Manual Meister
Reged: 08/12/06
Posts: 665
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Re: New MAME HTPC new [Re: Marioluigi64]
#289703 - 06/17/12 06:31 PM


While you're waiting for some benchmarks, I'll give you a couple of my thoughts on this sort of thing.

You always want a little extra head room on the CPU side, for background tasks and the like. Additionally, with the 'accuracy' tendencies of the MAME devs, you want to have room for sudden changes in drivers that provide better emulation at a higher CPU cost, like the Donkey Kong situation a few years back.

Above that, I note you said 'emulators'-- should you have an interest in relatively recent machines (PS2, GameCube, Wii, NDS) you'll probably want something fairly high-end.

With all that in mind, I'd probably suggest the Sandy Bridge i5-2500K over the i3. Why the K model, when it's a bit more expensive? Head room. Even in an HTPC environment, it's possible to get relatively quiet replacement CPU coolers that'll give you additional room for overclocking. Should you find yourself needing a bit more CPU speed, you can crank your rig up a few notches.

You may not think you need the extra capacity, but emulation is constantly moving forward at a glacial pace. You won't see it coming until it's about to run you (and your rig) over.

Hope this helps. I'm curious about the i3 benchmarks, myself.



---
Try checking the MAME manual at http://docs.mamedev.org



mesk
@ the arcade
Reged: 03/03/11
Posts: 484
Loc: Rhode Island
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Re: New MAME HTPC new [Re: Firehawke]
#289729 - 06/17/12 10:24 PM


My cab is a i3 2100 here are some MAME bench




Firehawke
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Re: New MAME HTPC new [Re: mesk]
#289732 - 06/18/12 12:02 AM


Comparing notes, then:

i3-2100 (desktop?) - i5-2500k (desktop) - i5-2430m (laptop)

set "blitz"
131.98% - 203.66% - 107.08%

set "slrasslt"
146.24% - 208.21% - 150.04%

Didn't have a benchmark for Pong to compare notes on.

So, looking this over, it looks like that i3 is slightly better than a stock clocked i5 laptop chip. Yeah, I'm thinking that the question of i3/i5 depends on what all you're running. If you're 100% sure you're never going to need the extra CPU, go ahead and go with the i3, but with the advancement of emulation as it always has been, I don't consider that a safe bet at all.



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Try checking the MAME manual at http://docs.mamedev.org



mesk
@ the arcade
Reged: 03/03/11
Posts: 484
Loc: Rhode Island
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Re: New MAME HTPC new [Re: Firehawke]
#289733 - 06/18/12 12:46 AM


I 100% agree with firehawke,go for the i5.My desktop is a i5,the i3 is in a cabinet which is also a desktop



Marioluigi64
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Reged: 07/05/09
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Re: New MAME HTPC new [Re: Firehawke]
#289747 - 06/18/12 04:04 AM


My desktop is a Phenom x6 1090t "overclocked" to 3.4GHz (sadly that's as high as it will stably go without ratcheting the voltages up which I don't want to do) and my laptop has an i5 2410m. My current HTPC is a cheapo thing running an Athlon II x2 at 2.8GHz. For grins I thought I would throw my own numbers in with both of yours:


1090t -- 2410m -- Athlon

blitz
154.77% -- 105.35% -- 92.71%

pong
120.08% -- 120.25% -- 99.55%

slrasslt
129.63% -- 122.43% -- 102.11%



First off, the Pong benchmark fascinates me that my laptop actually beats the 1090t in Pong, albeit by the slimmest of margins. I guess that goes down to two things: single-threaded performance difference between Intel and AMD, and the way each CPU handles emulation of an analog game.

Now, the other thing is Mesk's i3-2100. That is pretty disappointing really, I thought it would be higher than 132% for blitz. Maybe it's because Blitz seems to be one of the few MAME games that threads well, it pegs 5 of the 6 cores on my 1090t when I bench it, therefore it would favor 6 cores over 2c/4t...

My 1090t can BARELY run blitz at full speed. When I actually play the game (with no throttling) it hovers around 110% most of the time until a lot of players are onscreen at once, then it will drop down to about 90-95%. So for MAME benchmark purposes (factoring in the non-gameplay parts that -bench captures) I would think a -bench result of 165-170% would be needed to play the game with no hiccups at all. To do that, yeah you both are right, I will probably need a 2500k. It's more than I was wanting to spend on a new computer but hey, I will be happier in the end for it!


To answer your other point Firehawke, I'm not so much into the newer system emulators, more the older stuff. I am somewhat of a collector and have been for much of my life (I am 24 now). A couple years ago, I decided to sell off my older stuff for a couple reasons, 1) I am a broke college student, and 2) These games (in physical form) are not going to last forever and I wanted to get some of my investment in them back before my old systems, controllers, etc found their way to the electronics graveyard. The way I went about selling my stuff was I sold everything that could be accurately emulated and kept everything that uses high-level emulation, so I kept everything from my N64 forward and sold everything made from before then. When an N64 emulator using a low-level interpreter is made (I think that is being worked on in MESS currently???) and computers are able to run it at full speed (maybe high end Haswell CPUs???) I will probably sell my N64 and move to emulation for it. I love MAME because of the focus on accuracy they put on reproducing these games so they can live on as they should, in as close to original form as possible, and my favorite console emulator is bsnes for the same reason.



Naoki
Reged: 11/10/09
Posts: 1998
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: New MAME HTPC new [Re: Marioluigi64]
#289866 - 06/19/12 09:18 PM


Even though emulation is there, nothing will ever emulate or simulate the experience of the real deal. I got a nes and altough I have to blow the carts and clean it all up, atleast I can put my care into it, something I cant do for emulation XP



----
On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2

By gods I've found it!



Marioluigi64
MAME Fan
Reged: 07/05/09
Posts: 3
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Re: New MAME HTPC new [Re: Naoki]
#289897 - 06/20/12 05:58 AM


Yeah, I can understand that, but tbh with you I haven't missed physically having those games one bit. I think personally it just got to be a little too much for me to deal with all at once. Plus, school and real life in general got in the way of game time and I hadn't played most of my games in forever (that durn real life always gets in the way lol).

At one point I had over 600 games spanning something in the region of 20 systems, but now after selling what I did I am down to a "lowly" 200ish games spanning 7 systems (N64, Dreamcast, Gamecube, Wii, Xbox, Xbox 360, and PS3 w/ PS2&PS1 bc). That amount of games to me is manageable space-wise and if I ever get into a retro mood my HTPC is hooked up to my TV and I have my PS3 Street Fighter IV controller ready to go! I think it does a pretty good job of recreating the original experience. JMO of course


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