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DU: Space Lords
#359844 - 10/23/16 02:43 PM
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Peter Wilhelmsen and his friends beat the protection in another Atari GX2 game, Space Lords.
Quote:
After some hacking about we ended up with a setup that looks like this: https://s22.postimg.org/6jxeilge9/setup.jpg
This time we actually manufactured an adapter/breakout PCB so that we did not have to solder on the CLARN board.
After much data logging and analysis we could see that the protection was similar to that of Moto Frenzy but also significantly harder due to the fact that they would dynamically change the LSB byte of the LFSR polynomial several times a second.
Finally after months of hacking we fully broke the whole protection system
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: Smitdogg]
#359845 - 10/23/16 04:04 PM
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Great News!!
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Arcade Addict
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gregf |
Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: Smitdogg]
#359881 - 10/24/16 11:12 AM
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>Peter Wilhelmsen and his friends beat the protection in another Atari GX2 game, Space Lords.
- "After much data logging and analysis we could see that the protection was similar to that of Moto Frenzy but also significantly harder due to the fact that they would dynamically change the LSB byte of the LFSR polynomial several times a second. Finally after months of hacking we fully broke the whole protection system." -
Great to see another Atari game, a popular game too, finally able to be in a fully working state.
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CTOJAH |
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: Smitdogg]
#359887 - 10/24/16 01:29 PM
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I was waiting for Space Lords to be fully emulated, so Thank You MAME Team and all involved
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: CTOJAH]
#360044 - 10/28/16 10:10 AM
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So is it in the .179 release? I didn't see it in the notes. Regardless, great work guys, thanks again for all your efforts!
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: XtraSmiley]
#360046 - 10/28/16 11:29 AM
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: Osso1]
#360079 - 10/29/16 08:30 PM
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> It will be in 0.180.
Awesome, now I have something to look forward too!
I've been without my MAME machine for a year or two, has the team implemented a way to hook up machines virtually now? Meaning, will there be a way to connect Space Lords together to get 8 player action?
Once again, thanks to everyone still working on MAME, it's been an interesting ride!
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: XtraSmiley]
#360083 - 10/29/16 10:43 PM
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> I've been without my MAME machine for a year or two, has the team implemented a way > to hook up machines virtually now? Meaning, will there be a way to connect Space > Lords together to get 8 player action?
No.
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gregf |
Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: XtraSmiley]
#360121 - 10/31/16 09:26 AM
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>>It will be in 0.180
>Awesome, now I have something to look forward too!
It is possible to build your own version of MAME without having to wait until next release, but the usual requirements consist of latest compiling utilities and a near state-of-the-art powerful computer to create own build.
>has the team implemented a way to hook up machines virtually now? Meaning, will there be a >way to connect Space Lords together to get 8 player action?
As Moogly states, not yet, but there are some specific arcade hardware platforms that can be linked in multiple units as what SailorSat had been working with some time ago.
SailorSat post.
Look for the name in Programming forum to see previous work. It would have to take someone that can do what SailorSat did for some of the Sega games, but do that with Atari hardware in case Atari used a similar hardware linking setup with Space Lords.
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#360123 - 10/31/16 12:17 PM
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> > I've been without my MAME machine for a year or two, has the team implemented a way > > to hook up machines virtually now? Meaning, will there be a way to connect Space > > Lords together to get 8 player action? > > No.
Well, let me rephrase that: It is a qualified "no" in that I don't believe anyone has set up linking support in the necessary Atari driver.
That having been said, it is possible in some cases to link multiple instances of MAME together, I'm just not sure for which drivers it's currently possible.
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#360405 - 11/15/16 11:37 PM
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Oh my gosh this is so exciting, you have no idea how long I've been waiting for this to work on MAME after trying in vain to find a working surviving arcade machine out in the wild! So does this mean once .180 is released, Space Lords will just... work?
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CTOJAH |
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: CaptainKoloth]
#360406 - 11/15/16 11:42 PM
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: CTOJAH]
#360407 - 11/15/16 11:54 PM
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Fantastic... are there development builds of that out yet?
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CTOJAH |
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: CaptainKoloth]
#360422 - 11/16/16 06:54 PM
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> Fantastic... are there development builds of that out yet?
Look upstairs - @gregf already answered Your question
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: CTOJAH]
#360425 - 11/16/16 07:18 PM
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> > Fantastic... are there development builds of that out yet? > > Look upstairs - @gregf already answered Your question
Good point... thanks!
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: CaptainKoloth]
#360427 - 11/16/16 10:21 PM
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> Fantastic... are there development builds of that out yet?
the only source I knew of providing reputable nightly windows 32 & 64-bit that were properly packaged appears to be broken.
next official release is in 2 weeks.
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: CaptainKoloth]
#360435 - 11/17/16 05:58 PM
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: Ashura-X]
#360437 - 11/17/16 08:42 PM
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> http://ashura.mameworld.info/nightlybuilds/builds.html
these are not properly packaged, hosting them is actively dangerous to the project.
MAME is not a single exe that should be dropped into a new folder, it requires the correct support files to function correctly. If you are unable to distribute properly packaged versions of MAME please cease distributing them at all.
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R. Belmont |
Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: Haze]
#360438 - 11/17/16 08:57 PM
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> > http://ashura.mameworld.info/nightlybuilds/builds.html > > these are not properly packaged, hosting them is actively dangerous to the project. > > MAME is not a single exe that should be dropped into a new folder, it requires the > correct support files to function correctly. If you are unable to distribute properly > packaged versions of MAME please cease distributing them at all.
Yeah, especially between 0.179 and 0.180 there have been substantial changes in a lot of the "auxiliary" files. Just mix-and-matching the EXE will likely break things in profound ways.
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: R. Belmont]
#360439 - 11/17/16 09:28 PM
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R. Belmont:
Quote:
Yeah, especially between 0.179 and 0.180 there have been substantial changes in a lot of the "auxiliary" files. Just mix-and-matching the EXE will likely break things in profound ways.
This issue will only get worse if a future version of MAME relegates the ROM loading information to support files. As you said a few days ago, "the executable is too damned big, we are not adding more fucking text data," and the ROM hashes are a prime cause of that bloat.
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Stiletto |
They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: R. Belmont]
#360440 - 11/18/16 03:37 AM
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> > > http://ashura.mameworld.info/nightlybuilds/builds.html > > > > these are not properly packaged, hosting them is actively dangerous to the project. > > > > MAME is not a single exe that should be dropped into a new folder, it requires the > > correct support files to function correctly. If you are unable to distribute > properly > > packaged versions of MAME please cease distributing them at all. > > Yeah, especially between 0.179 and 0.180 there have been substantial changes in a lot > of the "auxiliary" files. Just mix-and-matching the EXE will likely break things in > profound ways.
Agreed with both Haze and Arbee. Ash, package it right or don't package it at all, please! The days of dropping in a new executable are long, long past. Don't be like EmuCR and be ignorant of the issues.
- Stiletto
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: Haze]
#360441 - 11/18/16 11:41 AM
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OK the next pack will be complete with all files from MAMEDEV web.
Thx for the info.
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: Stiletto]
#360442 - 11/18/16 11:41 AM
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Emucr??? NOOOOOooooooo
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Re: DU: Space Lords
[Re: AJR Hacker]
#360474 - 11/19/16 04:27 PM
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> R. Belmont: > > Yeah, especially between 0.179 and 0.180 there have been substantial changes in a lot > of the "auxiliary" files. Just mix-and-matching the EXE will likely break things in > profound ways. > > This issue will only get worse if a future version of MAME relegates the ROM loading > information to support files. As you said a few days ago, "the executable is too > damned big, we are not adding more fucking text data," and the ROM hashes are a prime > cause of that bloat.
Cases like this show why doing so won't really work tho. Either intentionally (people using it as a way to rebel against MAME) or unintentionally (people not realising how important the support files are) it could cause a bit of a support nightmare. Unfortunately the misinformation that 'to upgrade MAME you just need to replace the exe' has been spread so widely and for so long that 'unintentionally' doing it wrong section is likely to be huge.
In the past, it would have been an issue of people trying to use old support files in order to avoid upgrading their romsets, I suspect, based on the number of people who still see that as the 'main problem' with MAME you'll end up with even more people recommending to just replace the exe in order to avoid that problem (which of course is more likely to have catastrophic effects with arcade systems, where roms and hardware are tied more closely together should something change)
It's already a problem *sometimes* with softlists (I've had to deal with a number of support questions which have ended up coming down to people trying to use old softlists with new versions) but with the arcade roms it's an entirely different scale.
In part, I guess it's integrity. The situation as it stands is MAME is an authority on what is correct, and, for any given support situation we can be 99% confident we know what people are running if they give us a version number.
I do think having the dipswitches and button names as external XML files is a good idea tho as they're 'non-essential' I had a preliminary 'dipswitch device' that would read in the switch names from an external file, but never got it to a stage I felt was worth submitting (and the bar for submissions seems higher now, it seems things have to be 'correct' first time or they never get merged)
Anyway, just saying, there are a lot more factors to consider than 'exe size'
the other option might be to have a single 'resource' file that also gets compiled and versioned, whereby the major version must match the MAME version for it to run, and the minor version (build date / git revision) is reported when MAME is loaded so that we can easily work out what people are using. That could work as some kind of virtual filesystem so #INTERNAL#/ or something in a path would cause it to look in there...
but yeah, as this very thread (and plenty of other places offering MAME binaries) show, the idea that MAME is just the exe and can be upgraded by replacing it is alive and well, and people will continue to do that even if it's a terrible idea.
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