| R. Belmont |
|
Cuckoo for IGAvania
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
|
Posts: 9714
|
|
Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
#228760 - 08/01/10 05:02 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: R. Belmont]
#228769 - 08/01/10 10:23 AM
|
|
|
That's nothing short of amazing!
Do you think there will be an attempt to re-create the missing graphics? Could mame support texture "samples" like it does sound samples?
|
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: HowardC]
#228770 - 08/01/10 10:38 AM
|
|
|
> Do you think there will be an attempt to re-create the missing graphics? Could mame
> support texture "samples" like it does sound samples?
There is no need, you can just mock up a rom.
If only the rest of the code would turn up.
Edited by smf (08/01/10 10:40 AM)
|
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: R. Belmont]
#228773 - 08/01/10 01:28 PM
|
|
|
Impressive stuff for the 80's, now we have 2 games rebuilt from partial source, do you think Galaxy game will be added soon?
|
|
|
Stiletto |
|
They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 03/07/04
|
|
Posts: 6472
|
|
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: R. Belmont]
#228804 - 08/01/10 07:26 PM
|
|
|
> I cannot overstate the coolness here.
Indeed, this is EPIC. Congrats Phil!
- Stiletto
|
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: R. Belmont]
#228837 - 08/02/10 01:58 AM
|
|
|
> I cannot overstate the coolness here.
|
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: incog]
#228883 - 08/02/10 12:40 PM
|
|
|
> Impressive stuff for the 80's, now we have 2 games rebuilt from partial source, do
> you think Galaxy game will be added soon?
We were fortunate in the case of these two because pre-compiled binaries were included in their source archives.
There's another Atari proto to follow (see my avatar for a clue) which will need to be partially rebuilt from sources as the binaries were incomplete/corrupt.
I've no idea about Galaxy Game.
|
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: Phil Bennett]
#228906 - 08/02/10 05:06 PM
|
|
|
> There's another Atari proto to follow (see my avatar for a clue)
Sweet. Obese Cat got emulated. Awlright. Been waitin.
|
|
|
| Foxhack |
|
Furry guy
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 01/30/04
|
|
Posts: 2409
|
|
Loc: Spicy Canada
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: Smitdogg]
#228924 - 08/02/10 08:23 PM
|
|
|
> > There's another Atari proto to follow (see my avatar for a clue)
>
>
> Sweet. Obese Cat got emulated. Awlright. Been waitin.
Lasagna Cat?
|
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: Phil Bennett]
#228933 - 08/02/10 10:05 PM
|
|
|
Garfield !!
|
Only here to annoy...
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: Phil Bennett]
#229050 - 08/03/10 11:34 PM
|
|
|
Awesome. I'm so glad. How were able to ressurrect these 2 hidden gems: The Last Starfighter and Air Race? I spoke to the developer for the last starfighter arcade game long time ago and he thought they'd never be emulated since no roms were ever made. But now he thought wrong. Is there any possible chances you can try to find and emulate the polygon-based arcade games for 1986 and 1987 as I checked the database and there weren't any?
|
|
|
| Fever |
|
Reformed Sk3n3 Quitter
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
|
Posts: 2090
|
|
Loc: Britland
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: Pr3tty F1y]
#229054 - 08/04/10 12:53 AM
|
|
|
> > I cannot overstate the coolness here.
Yep definitely a jaw-on-floor moment!
'mazing!
Maybe that will keep the Marbleman / Crazy Otto whiners quite for a while *hopes*
|
|
|
| Moose |
|
Don't make me assume my ultimate form!
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 05/03/04
|
|
Posts: 1483
|
|
Loc: Outback, Australia
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: R. Belmont]
#229225 - 08/05/10 01:24 PM
|
|
|
> I cannot overstate the coolness here.
Bring on the Death Blossom (tm).
|
Moose
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: incog]
#234645 - 09/26/10 12:28 AM
|
|
|
Galaxy Game runs on a PDP minicomputer hardware which does not have a standard CPU or rom chips. That will be very difficult for mame to emulate. MAME can only emulate games at cpu levels. This game was released before Pong came out. Don't expect this game to be emulated anytime soon since it will be extremely difficult emulate this without a standard CPU or rom chips. It may be months or years before this game will be added to mame.
|
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: gamerfan]
#234650 - 09/26/10 02:26 AM
|
|
|
> Galaxy Game runs on a PDP minicomputer hardware which does not have a standard CPU or
> rom chips. That will be very difficult for mame to emulate. MAME can only emulate
> games at cpu levels. This game was released before Pong came out. Don't expect this
> game to be emulated anytime soon since it will be extremely difficult emulate this
> without a standard CPU or rom chips. It may be months or years before this game will
> be added to mame.
This is incorrect. Unlike Pong, the PDP-11 minicomputer does use a CPU.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-11
Nothing about Galaxy Game would be as radically different from games already emulated in MAME as a transistor transistor logic game like Pong would be.
|
|
|
| Stiletto |
|
They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 03/07/04
|
|
Posts: 6472
|
|
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: ranger_lennier]
#234701 - 09/26/10 07:35 AM
|
|
|
Indeed. Even if the functions of a CPU is the size of a circuitboard spread amongst multiple chips, MAME still sees it as a CPU.
See: http://mamedev.org/source/src/emu/cpu/ccpu/ccpu.c.html
That said, someday I'd love to see a component-level simulation of the Cinematronics CPU.
- Stiletto
|
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: ranger_lennier]
#234792 - 09/27/10 07:26 AM
|
|
|
MESS already emulates the PDP-1 so I see no reason a PDP-11 couldn't be emulated (either for this game or for other PDP-11 software, didn't Unix run on a PDP-11 at some point?)
|
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: jonwil]
#234806 - 09/27/10 02:07 PM
|
|
|
> MESS already emulates the PDP-1 so I see no reason a PDP-11 couldn't be emulated
> (either for this game or for other PDP-11 software, didn't Unix run on a PDP-11 at
> some point?)
The PDP-1 and PDP-11 are very different systems.
|
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: ranger_lennier]
#234852 - 09/28/10 01:19 AM
|
|
|
Didn't know PDP-11/20 had a CPU but it's not a programable one. But I wouldn't count on seeing this Galaxy Game emulated in mame anytime soon since only 1 or 2 have been built and they are at the hands of the Video Game History Museum down in Southern California. The only way mame devs and dumpers will get their hands on it is to get permission from the owner of the museum.
|
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: gamerfan]
#234854 - 09/28/10 01:37 AM
|
|
|
> Didn't know PDP-11/20 had a CPU but it's not a programable one. But I wouldn't count
> on seeing this Galaxy Game emulated in mame anytime soon since only 1 or 2 have been
> built and they are at the hands of the Video Game History Museum down in Southern
> California. The only way mame devs and dumpers will get their hands on it is to get
> permission from the owner of the museum.
WTF are you smoking? I don't know what you're trying to say about the PDP-11/20 not being programmable. Maybe you're getting confused about its hard-wired CPU (i.e. it doesn't run microcode like some of the later ones). Lots of PDP-11/20s were built, and the hardware is well-documented. Also, a full assembly source code listing for Galaxy Game has been widely distributed.
|
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: Matty_]
#234861 - 09/28/10 03:29 AM
|
|
|
> > Didn't know PDP-11/20 had a CPU but it's not a programable one. But I wouldn't
> count
> > on seeing this Galaxy Game emulated in mame anytime soon since only 1 or 2 have
> been
> > built and they are at the hands of the Video Game History Museum down in Southern
> > California. The only way mame devs and dumpers will get their hands on it is to get
> > permission from the owner of the museum.
>
> WTF are you smoking? I don't know what you're trying to say about the PDP-11/20 not
> being programmable. Maybe you're getting confused about its hard-wired CPU (i.e. it
> doesn't run microcode like some of the later ones). Lots of PDP-11/20s were built,
> and the hardware is well-documented. Also, a full assembly source code listing for
> Galaxy Game has been widely distributed.
Yeah, it ultimately runs binary code like any other game in MAME. I think they actually loaded it with paper tape.
|
|
|
| Quantum Leaper |
|
OCRer and Monkey Typist for Galaxy Game
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 03/08/04
|
|
Posts: 198
|
|
Loc: Orion spiral arm of the Milky Way
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: gamerfan]
#234885 - 09/28/10 12:32 PM
|
|
|
> Didn't know PDP-11/20 had a CPU but it's not a programable one. But I wouldn't count
> on seeing this Galaxy Game emulated in mame anytime soon since only 1 or 2 have been
> built and they are at the hands of the Video Game History Museum down in Southern
> California. The only way mame devs and dumpers will get their hands on it is to get
> permission from the owner of the museum.
Bill has given permission years ago for MAME or any other emulator/simulator to use his game, but the problem was it was only available as PDF, after I spent a few months converting the PDF to a compilable code and then error checking, I did get some help error checking the code.
The Source code for Galaxy Game Source is available, original and modified source code. I did have to change the Octal numbers and .ASCII to a different compiler to get a absolute address version, the first compiler wanted to create relocatable code. The code will compile to almost the same binary, the problem is 1 opcode which when Bill compiled it, show the wrong Octal code on listing. Bill thinks the problem is a line printer error or thats how the Compiler back in '71 compiled the code.
The PDP-11 which is what Galaxy Game CPU is the almost the same as the T-11 CPU which is MAME currently. The T-11 CPU is a PDP-11 on a chip. The OpCodes (986 in Galaxy Game) used which are available in the T-11. So it shouldn't be that hard to get Galaxy Game to run in MAME.
|
|
|
| Quantum Leaper |
|
OCRer and Monkey Typist for Galaxy Game
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 03/08/04
|
|
Posts: 198
|
|
Loc: Orion spiral arm of the Milky Way
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: ranger_lennier]
#234886 - 09/28/10 12:45 PM
|
|
|
> > > Didn't know PDP-11/20 had a CPU but it's not a programable one. But I wouldn't
> > count
> > > on seeing this Galaxy Game emulated in mame anytime soon since only 1 or 2 have
> > been
> > > built and they are at the hands of the Video Game History Museum down in Southern
> > > California. The only way mame devs and dumpers will get their hands on it is to
> get
> > > permission from the owner of the museum.
> >
> > WTF are you smoking? I don't know what you're trying to say about the PDP-11/20 not
> > being programmable. Maybe you're getting confused about its hard-wired CPU (i.e. it
> > doesn't run microcode like some of the later ones). Lots of PDP-11/20s were built,
> > and the hardware is well-documented. Also, a full assembly source code listing for
> > Galaxy Game has been widely distributed.
>
> Yeah, it ultimately runs binary code like any other game in MAME. I think they
> actually loaded it with paper tape.
I believe your correct the original was loaded from a paper tape, but the PDP-11 have different forms of storage available also. There are floppy disc storage available in SimH (PDP-11 simulator)
How do emulate a paper tape other than having it binary file, a octal file or a text file?
Edited by Quantum Leaper (09/28/10 12:46 PM)
|
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: Quantum Leaper]
#234887 - 09/28/10 12:48 PM
|
|
|
> How do emulate a paper tape other than having it binary file, a octal file or a text
> file?
Maybe OCR...
|
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: CrapBoardSoftware]
#234894 - 09/28/10 02:29 PM
|
|
|
> > How do emulate a paper tape other than having it binary file, a octal file or a
> text
> > file?
>
> Maybe OCR...
This is paper tape with holes punched in it - way less sophisticated than OCR.
|
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#234895 - 09/28/10 02:32 PM
|
|
|
> > > How do emulate a paper tape other than having it binary file, a octal file or a
> > text
> > > file?
> >
> > Maybe OCR...
>
> This is paper tape with holes punched in it - way less sophisticated than OCR.
I know this stuff. Provided enough confetti for carneval each each year when i was small. Simply writing OCR was qay quicker than "recognizing punched holes from a paper strip scan, loaded using image files or whatever".
|
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: CrapBoardSoftware]
#234914 - 09/28/10 05:28 PM
|
|
|
> > > > How do emulate a paper tape other than having it binary file, a octal file or a
> > > text
> > > > file?
> > >
> > > Maybe OCR...
> >
> > This is paper tape with holes punched in it - way less sophisticated than OCR.
>
> I know this stuff. Provided enough confetti for carneval each each year when i was
> small. Simply writing OCR was qay quicker than "recognizing punched holes from a
> paper strip scan, loaded using image files or whatever".
Actually doing image recognition on a scanned paper strip strikes me as overkill. I'm not familiar with how these were formatted, but I'd imagine you could represent it as some sort of text file without any loss of data.
|
|
|
| Quantum Leaper |
|
OCRer and Monkey Typist for Galaxy Game
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 03/08/04
|
|
Posts: 198
|
|
Loc: Orion spiral arm of the Milky Way
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
[Re: ranger_lennier]
#234920 - 09/28/10 06:16 PM
|
|
|
> > > > > How do emulate a paper tape other than having it binary file, a octal file or
> a
> > > > text
> > > > > file?
> > > >
> > > > Maybe OCR...
> > >
> > > This is paper tape with holes punched in it - way less sophisticated than OCR.
> >
> > I know this stuff. Provided enough confetti for carneval each each year when i was
> > small. Simply writing OCR was qay quicker than "recognizing punched holes from a
> > paper strip scan, loaded using image files or whatever".
>
> Actually doing image recognition on a scanned paper strip strikes me as overkill. I'm
> not familiar with how these were formatted, but I'd imagine you could represent it as
> some sort of text file without any loss of data.
I would tend to agree, scanning anything is like using a hammer for a thumb tack. I already had enough problems OCRing the PDF. Thats one reason I didn't post a binary file on the Google code page, I wasn't sure how the end user was going to use the file. A text file in Octal or binary file would be a good representative of the data, since the PDP-11 does have disc drives, even though Galaxy Game most likely didn't use one to boot the game.
Personal I would go for an Octal text file, since all the listings are in Octal, and not Hex or Decimal. All you would need is column 2,3 and 4 from the source listing and a load/start address. I guess you also could read the listing after compile that would represent the program also.
Edited by Quantum Leaper (09/28/10 06:29 PM)
|
|
|
Previous 
Index 
Next 
Threaded 
PhilWIP: The Last Starfighter and Air Race (prototypes)
Reply
[Re: 
