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Gambling games
#263152 - 08/27/11 11:51 PM
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Would I be in the minority thinking that adding all these gambling games in to MAME is not a good idea?
Currently there are many many of these being added to the system but IMHO they do not add to the project at all.
They cause the ROM lists to be hugely inflated and meaning time and effort to filter them out of the lists (not helped by the removal of filtering in a certain frontend!).
If you are about to say that MAME is an archive of arcade machines (which I think it is / should be) then my local arcade had an air hockey game, those penny pushing things, stuffed toy grabbers and soda machines - are these going to be emulated too??
Can't these games be shoved in to some kind of parallel project? Multiple Gambling Arcade Machine Emulator - MGAME?
Please try to keep this discussion civil - I don't want to start a flame war, just a sensible discussion OT.
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Re: Gambling games
[Re: SpudR]
#263153 - 08/28/11 12:05 AM
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> my local arcade had an air hockey game, those penny pushing
> things, stuffed toy grabbers and soda machines - are these going to be emulated too??
Yes they can be added. They won't do anything but they can be added.
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| redk9258 |
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Re: Gambling games
[Re: SpudR]
#263155 - 08/28/11 12:07 AM
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> If you are about to say that MAME is an archive of arcade machines (which I think it
> is / should be) then my local arcade had an air hockey game, those penny pushing
> things, stuffed toy grabbers and soda machines - are these going to be emulated too??
Emulating a soda machine is the best idea that I've heard in years! As much as I drink Diet Coke, it would save me a small fortune just to open up MAME and emulate a Diet Coke. Hey while your at it, don't forget some arcades used to sell pizza. Emulate that too!
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| Jdurgi |
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Re: Gambling games
[Re: SpudR]
#263158 - 08/28/11 12:12 AM
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Remember that the ability to play these games is a very nice side effect of their preservation. While you may not like these "gambling games", they still run on integrated circuits and have ROMS/CPUs that need to be preserved before they cease to function. The source code is freely available, and if you don't like some aspects of what is in the software, you are free to remove them for your own personal builds. I do that myself.
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Re: Gambling games
[Re: Smitdogg]
#263160 - 08/28/11 12:16 AM
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Just an idea: All these games will never work in mame, so it would be better if a separate mame branch will be created for all these games. Thus with a separate mame branch,A) we don't overload the main exe and B) we still have a separate build for them (the non-working games that will never work), just for preservation reasons.
Sorry, if I said something stupid
Greets,
DaffyDuck
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Re: Gambling games
[Re: DaffyDuck]
#263162 - 08/28/11 12:46 AM
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That would be a file definitions list. Nobody would maintain/update/care, and lots of them will eventually do something. Some will be fully emulated.
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Re: Gambling games
[Re: Smitdogg]
#263165 - 08/28/11 01:19 AM
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> That would be a file definitions list. Nobody would maintain/update/care, and lots of
> them will eventually do something. Some will be fully emulated.
a separation in the makefile is possible. anyway, it was just a stupid opinion
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Daffy Duck
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Gambling games
[Re: DaffyDuck]
#263168 - 08/28/11 02:15 AM
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> Just an idea: All these games will never work in mame
Nonsense. Pretty much all of them can be made to work.
And to shoot down the idiocy further up thread, air hockey isn't electronic. All of these gambling games have CPUs that run game programs, including the ones that don't have video screens.
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Gambling games
[Re: SpudR]
#263169 - 08/28/11 02:19 AM
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> and soda machines - are these going to be emulated too??
We have a couple of satellite receivers in MESS now, so why not? The newer soda machines with the alphanumeric displays and graphics and stuff would be kinda fun to emulate. Making them actually dispense soda (via MAMEHooker) would be a project for the user though ;-)
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Re: Gambling games
[Re: SpudR]
#263170 - 08/28/11 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Would I be in the minority thinking that adding all these gambling games in to MAME is not a good idea?
Currently there are many many of these being added to the system but IMHO they do not add to the project at all.
They cause the ROM lists to be hugely inflated and meaning time and effort to filter them out of the lists (not helped by the removal of filtering in a certain frontend!).
MAME's scope has widened and it's a great idea if you are into emulating chips correctly and archiving, documenting PCBs of all shapes and sizes. Many of the recently added gambling machines use chips common in arcade video games. Each valid dump from one of these PCBs is yet another test case for the already battle-hardened cores.
Let's take a recent example of how MESS helps MAME to show you how these gambling games can. A cool guy by the name of Tim Schuerewegen sent in some fixes for the H8 CPU to MESS for the obscure 2000 handheld Cybiko.
The H8 is used in ~60 arcade titles currently in MAME and fixes from a little known handheld from the early 00's have helped the core become more accurate. The H8 CPU is also used in the EPOCH line of Maygay gambling (fruit) machines, any improvement to the core to make those work better will also feed back to making the videogame titles more accurate. This is only a simple example using one chip but the benefits far outweigh the "it makes roms harder for me to sort" arguement.
Quote:
If you are about to say that MAME is an archive of arcade machines (which I think it is / should be) then my local arcade had an air hockey game, those penny pushing things, stuffed toy grabbers and soda machines - are these going to be emulated too??
If it has a ROM to dump and a CPU to emulate, they should be added too. More testcases for the cores, more skulls for the skullthrone.
Quote:
Can't these games be shoved in to some kind of parallel project? Multiple Gambling Arcade Machine Emulator - MGAME?
Yes they can, you could fork MAME if you wanted to but I see no benefit at all to it.
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Re: Gambling games
[Re: DaffyDuck]
#263171 - 08/28/11 03:35 AM
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> A) we don't overload the main exe
Not sure if you are talking about memory footprint. The size of the MAME executable shouldn't matter in this day and age, 64-bit MAME for Windows weighs in at only ~67 MB. On OS X it's about 10MB larger.
But when you start a game, MAME only loads the parts into memory that are required to emulate the hardware that the game runs on.
You can (sort of) see this for yourself by running MAME in a window and looking at memory usage in Task Manager.
S
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Re: Gambling games
[Re: SpudR]
#263186 - 08/28/11 12:30 PM
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Firstly I must thank the people who are constantly adding things to MAME - this is extremely appreciated - thanks to all the ROM hunters, and all involved 
Maybe the soda machine idea wasn't so crazy after all 
lol
Guess I'm in the minority then...
I actually love the idea that MAME can emulate all sorts of stuff - I think it's a monumental achievement, but in the same way MESS is targeting a different area of the spectrum, forking the gambling stuff would allow the people interested to continue doing so without cluttering up MAME.
Quote:
Remember that the ability to play these games is a very nice side effect of their preservation.
Really guys - do you honestly think that the reason the majority of people are in to MAME is NOT to play the games of their youth?
I love that fact that MAME is an historical archive of something that is rapidly disappearing from our culture, and it really is an amazing thing, but that's like saying an alcoholic drinks 'cos he likes the bottles - lol
I'm sure that some guys are doing it for the challenge though.
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Re: Gambling games
[Re: SpudR]
#263188 - 08/28/11 03:02 PM
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> Really guys - do you honestly think that the reason the majority of people are in to
> MAME is NOT to play the games of their youth?
> I love that fact that MAME is an historical archive of something that is rapidly
> disappearing from our culture, and it really is an amazing thing, but that's like
> saying an alcoholic drinks 'cos he likes the bottles - lol
> I'm sure that some guys are doing it for the challenge though.
While the majority of people uses Mame to play the games, big part of it also uses Mame to repair their boards. Including all those gambling machines into Mame is an assurance that the needed information (and roms images) to repair them is preserved.
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| Cable |
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Re: Gambling games
[Re: incog]
#263192 - 08/28/11 03:53 PM
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Ok now i can see how work on mess and the gambling games can benefit Mame. I personal get frustrated when i come to update my roms and the download is full of mahjong, pinball and gambling games! But this is my problem. I have to go through and delete them before adding the mame game roms, which are the only ones i want. Yes I would love to not have these other roms included but i understand why they are.
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Re: Gambling games
[Re: R. Belmont]
#263200 - 08/28/11 04:49 PM
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I did once see a Lego Mindstorms coek dispenser once. In theory hooking the mindstorms kit to MAMEHooker would work.
In fact my step-father's fridge/freezer has a kinda CPUish based thing I think, would those to?
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Re: Gambling games
[Re: SpudR]
#263209 - 08/28/11 06:11 PM
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> Would I be in the minority thinking that adding all these gambling games in to MAME
> is not a good idea?
>
> Currently there are many many of these being added to the system but IMHO they do not
> add to the project at all.
> They cause the ROM lists to be hugely inflated and meaning time and effort to filter
> them out of the lists (not helped by the removal of filtering in a certain
> frontend!).
>
> If you are about to say that MAME is an archive of arcade machines (which I think it
> is / should be) then my local arcade had an air hockey game, those penny pushing
> things, stuffed toy grabbers and soda machines - are these going to be emulated too??
>
> Can't these games be shoved in to some kind of parallel project? Multiple Gambling
> Arcade Machine Emulator - MGAME?
>
> Please try to keep this discussion civil - I don't want to start a flame war, just a
> sensible discussion OT.
Casinos generated some of the highest revenues from arcade games and helped to increase demand for more of them. Gambling video games and arcade video games in the early 1980's were developed practically side by side each other. Having grown up around the casino arcades all my life, it is easier for me to credit casinos for helping to grow the arcade industry. When I see an old poker machine emulated in MAME, it reminds me of the times I used to walk through the casinos walking past the video gambling machines to get to the darkened arcade room.
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