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Glowing Effect In MAME
#270989 - 12/15/11 06:48 AM
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Is there a program or a way to get the glowing effect found in the vector games of AAE in MAME.
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I’m convinced Mario is a hobo.
He wakes up everyday in the same clothes, runs around in sewers, and collects coins for a living.
At the end of the day, he uses the coins to buy mushrooms
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| CiroConsentino |
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: jumpmaniac81]
#271006 - 12/15/11 03:18 PM
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#271011 - 12/15/11 04:47 PM
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is there a reason why MAME will not implement it?
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I’m convinced Mario is a hobo.
He wakes up everyday in the same clothes, runs around in sewers, and collects coins for a living.
At the end of the day, he uses the coins to buy mushrooms
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: jumpmaniac81]
#271018 - 12/15/11 05:19 PM
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> is there a reason why MAME will not implement it?
Read this thread:
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...amp;o=&vc=1
RobertJ made a version where the vectors glow, but it wasn't accepted by Mame devs 'cause, if I remember it right, it was entirely made on software (too cpu intensive). It probably would be accepted if ported to use shaders.
Diff file for Mame v0.142 (by RobertJ):
http://www.robertsworld.org.uk/files/vector_142.diff
Compiled Mame v0.142 with vector diff (by mogli):
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/download.php?Number=256401
It's just a case of someone step in and do it (in a way that Mame devs accept it).
EDIT:
I'm using it with this settings:
screen resolution: 1600x1200 (2048x1536 would be better but I'd have to adjust my monitor horizontal every time);
brightness: 1.00;
contrast: 2.00;
gamma: 1.00;
draw antialiased vectors: on;
beam: 3.00;
glow strength: 350;
bilinear filtering: on.
In my opinion is very cool, but I think it would be better with more antialiasing and more contrast.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: jumpmaniac81]
#271024 - 12/15/11 06:00 PM
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> Is there a program or a way to get the glowing effect found in the vector games of
> AAE in MAME.
Not yet. I hope to convince MG to add a vector mode for HLSL so we can have the glow effects *and* a shadow mask (vector monitors obviously don't have scanlines, but color ones still have a visible shadow mask). Would blow AAE out of the water, hopefully 
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: Ramirez]
#271030 - 12/15/11 08:54 PM
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Oh I remeber that thread.Yeah his work is amazing.I hope they consider it.Thank you for the threads.
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I’m convinced Mario is a hobo.
He wakes up everyday in the same clothes, runs around in sewers, and collects coins for a living.
At the end of the day, he uses the coins to buy mushrooms
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: R. Belmont]
#271065 - 12/16/11 08:10 AM
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> > Is there a program or a way to get the glowing effect found in the vector games of
> > AAE in MAME.
>
> Not yet. I hope to convince MG to add a vector mode for HLSL so we can have the glow
> effects *and* a shadow mask (vector monitors obviously don't have scanlines, but
> color ones still have a visible shadow mask). Would blow AAE out of the water,
> hopefully
I look forward to it. It does bring to mind what kind of horsepower might be needed for it....
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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| CiroConsentino |
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: mogli]
#271075 - 12/16/11 12:17 PM
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#271076 - 12/16/11 01:30 PM
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> I would prefer effects being generated by the video card (Direct3D), not using the
> super mega heavy hlsl.
lol HLSL _is_ run on your GPU. If it's not performing, you need a more powerful programmable GPU.
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| CiroConsentino |
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#271094 - 12/16/11 05:16 PM
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#271095 - 12/16/11 05:31 PM
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> I would prefer effects being generated by the video card (Direct3D), not using the
> super mega heavy hlsl.
HLSL runs 100% on your video card. Your CPU/RAM/HDD do not touch it at all (which is admittedly a marked contrast to traditional MAME). If your card is too slow, drop the resolution or get a better one. Cards that can run HLSL fine can be had for under US$100 now.
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#271097 - 12/16/11 05:37 PM
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> lol
> I mean real hardware acceleration for graphics, not using HLSL which makes games run
> at 10fps
It *is* real hardware acceleration. If we ran those effects on the CPU you'd need a 4 GHz i7 to run pacman at 50% speed. Since video cards are much better at that sort of thing post-Crysis, I can run HLSL on my GeForce GTX570 and get hundreds of frames per second.
Similarly, if your video card can't handle HLSL, it will have no prayer of working when we do actually draw polygons on it. Many, many people got a wake-up call when Supermodel was released - it requires a video card of similar power to MAME's HLSL and it does all the graphics on the card.
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| CiroConsentino |
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: R. Belmont]
#271106 - 12/16/11 08:10 PM
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my brother have a Phenom x3 with a GeForce GTX260 2GB. it's a pretty fast video card.
running at res 1680x1050. he can play heavy PC games just fine, why not with HLSL enabled in MAME ?
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Ciro Alfredo Consentino
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#271111 - 12/16/11 09:26 PM
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> my brother have a Phenom x3 with a GeForce GTX260 2GB. it's a pretty fast video card.
> running at res 1680x1050. he can play heavy PC games just fine, why not with HLSL
> enabled in MAME ?
The GTX260 is basically a twice-renamed 8600GT, not that great of a card for shaders. All the recent Fairlight particle demos will wreck those, for instance.
Does it run Supermodel OK in full screen?
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| CiroConsentino |
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: R. Belmont]
#271116 - 12/16/11 11:10 PM
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yes, Supermodel runs at full speed.
>> The GTX260 is basically a twice-renamed 8600GT,
really ? afaik, a GTX260 has practically twice more power than a 9800 GT.
my brother can run Batman Arkham City with graphics at high and res 1680x1050 it plays very fast. PhysX needs to be lowered (but it is enabled!) as this game's PhysX demands a second vidcard.
he can play Dolphin (Wii emulator) with all graphic options cranked up. Emulator run games at full speed.
last time I heard, MAME's hlsl is not optimized for speed.
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: R. Belmont]
#271120 - 12/17/11 12:02 AM
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> > Is there a program or a way to get the glowing effect found in the vector games of
> > AAE in MAME.
>
> Not yet. I hope to convince MG to add a vector mode for HLSL so we can have the glow
> effects *and* a shadow mask (vector monitors obviously don't have scanlines, but
> color ones still have a visible shadow mask). Would blow AAE out of the water,
> hopefully
I compiled Mame v0.144 with RobertJ's diff. I really liked the result.
RobertJ diff + HLSL
EDIT: You can add scanlines and shadowmask at your will.
It's running full speed in a e6600 at 3.2 Ghz.
Edited by ramirez (12/17/11 12:04 AM)
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Stiletto |
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: Ramirez]
#271141 - 12/17/11 02:36 AM
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> I compiled Mame v0.144 with RobertJ's diff. I really liked the result.
> RobertJ diff + HLSL
>
>
> EDIT: You can add scanlines and shadowmask at your will.
> It's running full speed in a e6600 at 3.2 Ghz.
Looks interesting, but my money's on (say) MG to spend hours scrutinizing actual vector games in person, as well as their schematics, before creating a Vector filter for HLSL. Just gotta be optimistic and patient. 
- Stiletto
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| B2K24 |
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#271148 - 12/17/11 02:54 AM
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> last time I heard, MAME's hlsl is not optimized for speed.
I think what you're trying to say is, you will get better performance the more steam processors the card has and how high the shader clock speed is. it's not about core clock speed, which is similar to the folding@home GPU3 client that's GPU based.
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| Stiletto |
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: B2K24]
#271151 - 12/17/11 03:03 AM
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> > last time I heard, MAME's hlsl is not optimized for speed.
>
> I think what you're trying to say is, you will get better performance the more steam
> processors the card has and how high the shader clock speed is. it's not about core
> clock speed, which is similar to the folding@home GPU3 client that's GPU based.
That's not what I'm hearing from him. Also, stream processors.
- Stiletto
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: Stiletto]
#271351 - 12/23/11 10:08 AM
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> > I compiled Mame v0.144 with RobertJ's diff. I really liked the result.
> > RobertJ diff + HLSL
> >
>
> Looks interesting, but my money's on (say) MG to spend hours scrutinizing actual
> vector games in person, as well as their schematics, before creating a Vector filter
> for HLSL. Just gotta be optimistic and patient.
>
> - Stiletto
I'm cool with that....although, the Star Wars pic posted looks pretty bad-ASS.
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: mogli]
#271374 - 12/23/11 06:43 PM
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> > > I compiled Mame v0.144 with RobertJ's diff. I really liked the result.
> > > RobertJ diff + HLSL
> > >
>
> >
> > Looks interesting, but my money's on (say) MG to spend hours scrutinizing actual
> > vector games in person, as well as their schematics, before creating a Vector
> filter
> > for HLSL. Just gotta be optimistic and patient.
> >
> > - Stiletto
>
> I'm cool with that....although, the Star Wars pic posted looks pretty bad-ASS.
On a side note, the games are running at 900%+ unthrottled on my system, and I have more brightness and contrast here, for some reason the screenshots don't show exactly what is on my screen.
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: Ramirez]
#298871 - 11/13/12 02:07 AM
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> > is there a reason why MAME will not implement it?
>
> Read this thread:
> http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...amp;o=&vc=1
>
> RobertJ made a version where the vectors glow, but it wasn't accepted by Mame devs
> 'cause, if I remember it right, it was entirely made on software (too cpu intensive).
> It probably would be accepted if ported to use shaders.
>
> Diff file for Mame v0.142 (by RobertJ):
> http://www.robertsworld.org.uk/files/vector_142.diff
>
> Compiled Mame v0.142 with vector diff (by mogli):
> http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/download.php?Number=256401
>
> It's just a case of someone step in and do it (in a way that Mame devs accept it).
>
> EDIT:
> I'm using it with this settings:
> screen resolution: 1600x1200 (2048x1536 would be better but I'd have to adjust my
> monitor horizontal every time);
> brightness: 1.00;
> contrast: 2.00;
> gamma: 1.00;
> draw antialiased vectors: on;
> beam: 3.00;
> glow strength: 350;
> bilinear filtering: on.
>
> In my opinion is very cool, but I think it would be better with more antialiasing and
> more contrast.
I was just messing around with AAE and came across this thread and tried the compile above and looks good after some tweaking. So is this a dead issue or are mamedevs still looking to improve the vector games in mame?
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: R. Belmont]
#298898 - 11/13/12 05:45 PM
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: ]
#298901 - 11/13/12 06:54 PM
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> > The GTX260 is basically a twice-renamed 8600GT, not that great of a card for
> shaders.
>
> I think that's true for the mobile graphics chips, but not the desktop ones
>
> The performance difference seems quite a lot.
Regardless, it's not a Fermi (GTX4xx) or Kepler (GTX5xx) part, both of which have orders of magnitude more shader FLOPs than the 8xxx/9xxx/1xx/2xx/3xx (all of which are the same architecture with minor process tweeks).
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: R. Belmont]
#298906 - 11/13/12 07:31 PM
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> Regardless, it's not a Fermi (GTX4xx) or Kepler (GTX5xx) part, both of which have
> orders of magnitude more shader FLOPs than the 8xxx/9xxx/1xx/2xx/3xx (all of which
> are the same architecture with minor process tweeks).
It's an old card and you shouldn't expect too much, but according to gallium3d they aren't the same.
8600 is nv84
http://feedback.wildfiregames.com/report/opengl/device/Gallium%200.4%20on%20NV84
gtx 260 is nva0
http://feedback.wildfiregames.com/report/opengl/device/Gallium%200.4%20on%20NVA0
http://feedback.wildfiregames.com/report...ium+0.4+on+NVA0
http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/CodeNames
They are similar as they are both NV50, but it's not just a rebranding like they do with the mobile chips. While these aren't all exactly the same, they are all NV92. Marketing sucks.
GeForce 8800 (GT, GS, GTS 512, M GTS, M GTX)
GeForce 9600 GSO, 9800 (GT, GTX, GTX+, GX2, M GT, M GTX)
GeForce GTS 150(M), GTS 160M, GTS 240, GTS 250, GTX (260M, 280M, 285M), GT (330, 340)
Quadro FX (2800M, 3600M, 3700, 3700M, 3800M, 4700 X2), VX 200
Edited by smf (11/13/12 07:43 PM)
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#298955 - 11/14/12 06:47 AM
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> lol
> I mean real hardware acceleration for graphics, not using HLSL which makes games run
> at 10fps
Games don't run at 10fps for me, I've been using HLSL since the begining. my htpc is an i5-2500k and my laptop is an i3-2310m. both are able to run everything 100%.
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: joey35car]
#299081 - 11/15/12 08:56 PM
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> I was just messing around with AAE and came across this thread and tried the compile
> above and looks good after some tweaking. So is this a dead issue or are mamedevs
> still looking to improve the vector games in mame?
AAE is unfinished. Star Wars doesn't have mouse controls at all and the emulator doesn't have ESB support. Some high score saving doesn't work, either.
If we can't get these vector features on MAME, at least it'd be great to see AAE fixed.
The source code is available. I wish I had the skills.
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| Dullaron |
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I don't think MAME Dev will get this in.
[Re: Kombalar]
#299083 - 11/15/12 09:29 PM
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I think there is a reason for them not doing it.
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: mogli]
#299085 - 11/15/12 09:34 PM
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> I'm cool with that....although, the Star Wars pic posted looks pretty bad-ASS.
It looks nothing like an original Star Wars vector monitor though. The colour monitors had a dot mask, so they didn't glow like the b&w games (asteroids etc).
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: ]
#315053 - 09/26/13 12:43 AM
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Hey you guys!
I updated MAME yesterday, and got a bee in my bonnet about this all over again. I had tried in the past to get it working with more recent versions of MAME using hardware acceleration, without joy, but I'm giving it another go.
Here is an interim patch for MAME 150:
http://www.robeesworld.com/files/flicker_patch_150.diff
All this does is add in the more realistic flicker simulation. I'll work on the other bits as time goes by and see if I can get them in too.
You can turn this on with the same Flicker setting in the existing MAME. It just looks more realistic!
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: RobeeJ]
#315068 - 09/26/13 05:51 PM
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> Hey you guys!
>
> I updated MAME yesterday, and got a bee in my bonnet about this all over again. I had
> tried in the past to get it working with more recent versions of MAME using hardware
> acceleration, without joy, but I'm giving it another go.
Hi,
There is a full Direct3D vector effects implementation including glow and flicker in MAME right now. Unfortunately it's broken in 0.150, but if you sniff around some threads from about a month ago you might catch some screenshots.
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: R. Belmont]
#315070 - 09/26/13 06:52 PM
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Oh really? Well that would save me a lot of work.
TY I'll check it out.
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Re: Glowing Effect In MAME
[Re: R. Belmont]
#315071 - 09/26/13 07:01 PM
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> There is a full Direct3D vector effects implementation including glow and flicker in
> MAME right now. Unfortunately it's broken in 0.150, but if you sniff around some
> threads from about a month ago you might catch some screenshots.
From a quick look at the screenshots, this looks like the hardware glow I was missing from my original implementation (I had to do it in software hence the slow speed), but it seems to lack the other additions I made.
But the other things I added were really quite easy to do, so the moment the MAME team fixes the vector issue with this release I think I'll take a look and see about finishing it off.
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Talk to MooglyGuy....
[Re: RobeeJ]
#315079 - 09/26/13 11:08 PM
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Perhaps you can collaborate.
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