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DU Update: Type XXX
#311001 - 07/03/13 04:30 AM
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There is finally a skeleton driver for Taito Type X games so we started dumping more of them. ShouTime got us some real/nonhack version dumps of...
Trouble Witches AC
Raiden 3
Raiden 4
Chaosbreaker
Gigawing Generations
Goketsuji
Homura
Spica Adventure
KOF 98 Ultimate Match
Shikigami no Shiro 3
I expect we will dump everything most games that came out on the X systems over the next year.
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Smitdogg]
#311003 - 07/03/13 05:43 AM
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That's awesome. Thanks, it's much appreciated.
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Smitdogg]
#311004 - 07/03/13 06:02 AM
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Very good news.
Let's get this shit done the right way  \o/ \o/ \o/
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Smitdogg]
#311008 - 07/03/13 11:23 AM
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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The guy who did it right. No hacky dumps. =P
[Re: Smitdogg]
#311011 - 07/03/13 12:56 PM
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I'm so glad that you did this. 
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W11 Home 64-bit + Nobara OS / AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT / AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core 3.59 GHz / RAM 64 GB
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Smitdogg]
#311014 - 07/03/13 03:15 PM
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> There is finally a skeleton driver for Taito Type X games so we started dumping more
> of them. ShouTime got us some real/nonhack version dumps of...
>
> Trouble Witches AC
> Raiden 3
> Raiden 4
> Chaosbreaker
> Gigawing 2
> Goketsuji
> Homura
> Spica Adventure
> KOF 98 Ultimate Match
> Shikigami no Shiro 3
>
> I expect we will dump everything that came out on the X systems over the next year.
I assume it will take a hefty PC to play any of them? Will these also be CHDs?
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"Note to Noobs:
We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.
C.D.~"
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| Nomax |
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Ryo Hazuki
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Master O]
#311015 - 07/03/13 03:23 PM
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> I assume it will take a hefty PC to play any of them? Will these also be CHDs?
Those will be CHDs.
It's only a skeleton driver for now anyway but as long as it's pure emulation, it won't run on any current hardware.
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NPlayers.ini - The multiplayer description file for MAME. (Linux user #448789)
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Nomax]
#311016 - 07/03/13 03:36 PM
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> > I assume it will take a hefty PC to play any of them? Will these also be CHDs?
>
> Those will be CHDs.
>
> It's only a skeleton driver for now anyway but as long as it's pure emulation, it
> won't run on any current hardware.
Hopefully, the first game in this driver that mamedev boots will be a mahjong game, to make the rom kiddies heads spin.
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"Note to Noobs:
We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.
C.D.~"
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| Nomax |
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Ryo Hazuki
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Master O]
#311017 - 07/03/13 03:48 PM
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> Hopefully, the first game in this driver that mamedev boots will be a mahjong game,
> to make the rom kiddies heads spin.
It would be possible since Taisen Hot Gimmick 5 and Taisen Hot Gimmick Mix Party run on this hardware. 
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NPlayers.ini - The multiplayer description file for MAME. (Linux user #448789)
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Nomax]
#311018 - 07/03/13 04:16 PM
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> It's only a skeleton driver for now anyway but as long as it's pure emulation, it
> won't run on any current hardware.
A dynamic recompiler for the cpu and some of the rendering things that have been talked about might mean it could be playable on some current monster hardware.
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| CptGuapo |
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Beat'em-ups Lover
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Smitdogg]
#311019 - 07/03/13 04:22 PM
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Wow!!!  
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"Mythology is what grownups believe, folklore is what they tell children and religion is both."
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Smitdogg]
#311025 - 07/03/13 05:27 PM
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Is it Giga Wing Generations? ANd Goketsuji is Power Instinct V?
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Osso1]
#311028 - 07/03/13 05:31 PM
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It is Generations and not 2 as I had there. I don't know anything about Goketsuji, maybe the Japan version is called Goketsuji and the export is PI5.
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| CiroConsentino |
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Frontend freak!
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Master O]
#311037 - 07/03/13 08:03 PM
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there is an emulator for this system floating around. I was created a while ago and it requires a beefy computer with a beefy video card.
Can't find it though... maybe on torrents ?
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#311042 - 07/03/13 08:53 PM
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> there is an emulator for this system floating around. I was created a while ago and
> it requires a beefy computer with a beefy video card.
> Can't find it though... maybe on torrents ?
lol. it's not an emulator. it's just ugly layer. and it was REALLY ugly.
even MAME skeleton driver which does NOTHING is MUCH better than that.
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| CTOJAH |
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MAME Addict
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: abelenki]
#311048 - 07/03/13 10:16 PM
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> > there is an emulator for this system floating around. I was created a while ago and
> > it requires a beefy computer with a beefy video card.
> > Can't find it though... maybe on torrents ?
>
> lol. it's not an emulator. it's just ugly layer. and it was REALLY ugly.
>
> even MAME skeleton driver which does NOTHING is MUCH better than that.
Sorry, but I can NOT agree with You, not at all.
This "emulator" is ArcadePC Loader and I can assure You that almost every single game (there are dumps all around the net - Taito Type X/X2 dumps) works on my comp.
Maybe You mean that Arcade PC Loader is not pure emulator, (which is true) but from my side of view(as a gamer, not preservator/collector) the reason for runing an "emulator" is clear enough - to play games !
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| CTOJAH |
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MAME Addict
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#311050 - 07/03/13 10:22 PM
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> there is an emulator for this system floating around. I was created a while ago and
> it requires a beefy computer with a beefy video card.
> Can't find it though... maybe on torrents ?
No, not beefy, but close to original card/system which is placed in original hardware. (PC with Win XP and usually GeForce card)
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: B2K24]
#311071 - 07/04/13 04:38 AM
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> Very good news.
>
> Let's get this shit done the right way \o/ \o/ \o/
Not sure what you mean by that. If "getting this shit done the right way" means dumping games that are already dumped because obviously the official mame dumpers are the only ones capable of doing it the right way  and putting them on a driver that is probably 10 years out from working then sure.
Don't misunderstand, I'm happy to see them in mame, but these are just direct x enabled pc games with a hardware dongle.. it isn't the same as when arcade games were on dedicated hardware and the only "proper" way to play them was via an emulator. Until a version of windows is released where xp x86 games no longer run and/or dx 7/8 games no longer run the "proper way" to play these games is to just play them, on a regular pc with a very minor hack (despite what others might lead you to believe) that bypasses the hardware dongle.
With two or three notable exceptions, these games "just run" on any pc today.
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| Sune |
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Connected
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Master O]
#311074 - 07/04/13 05:16 AM
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> Hopefully, the first game in this driver that mamedev boots will be a mahjong game,
> to make the rom kiddies heads spin.
Wrong driver, you must be thinking of chihiro..oh no too late, there are already screenshots of Outrun 2 booting.
With type x there will be no spinning kiddie heads, they'll be enjoying their type x games in that other emulator.
What will happen is people will post here asking why the roms that they already have won't work in MAME, and if they do work, they'll complain about it running too slow and suggest or even demand that MAME should use 3D acceleration to speed it up. There will be more posts about adding force feedback and other things that are impossible to implement cross-platform or are otherwise contrary to the goals and philosophy of MAME.
After a while, there'll be a FAQ entry or a sticky post on emuchat (by Tafoid) explaining why type x is slow etc, but there'll still be posts about it because nobody reads those things anyway. devs will threaten to quit the scene or stop working on the driver or remove it from MAME etc etc.
I will be pleased even if I should turn out to be half wrong about this.
S
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Sune]
#311076 - 07/04/13 05:46 AM
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> > Hopefully, the first game in this driver that mamedev boots will be a mahjong game,
> > to make the rom kiddies heads spin.
>
> Wrong driver, you must be thinking of chihiro..oh no too late, there are already
> screenshots of Outrun 2 booting.
>
> With type x there will be no spinning kiddie heads, they'll be enjoying their type x
> games in that other emulator.
>
> What will happen is people will post here asking why the roms that they already have
> won't work in MAME, and if they do work, they'll complain about it running too slow
> and suggest or even demand that MAME should use 3D acceleration to speed it up. There
> will be more posts about adding force feedback and other things that are impossible
> to implement cross-platform or are otherwise contrary to the goals and philosophy of
> MAME.
>
> After a while, there'll be a FAQ entry or a sticky post on emuchat (by Tafoid)
> explaining why type x is slow etc, but there'll still be posts about it because
> nobody reads those things anyway. devs will threaten to quit the scene or stop
> working on the driver or remove it from MAME etc etc.
>
> I will be pleased even if I should turn out to be half wrong about this.
>
> S
Doesn't matter. They must make the first game to boot on this driver to be a Mahjong game.
And if people ask why their roms don't work, instant ban.
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: CTOJAH]
#311081 - 07/04/13 09:58 AM
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> Sorry, but I can NOT agree with You, not at all.
> This "emulator" is ArcadePC Loader and I can assure You that almost every single game
> (there are dumps all around the net - Taito Type X/X2 dumps) works on my comp.
yeah, they work, but you are not emulating them. you are playing them as a PC game.
it's like if you take a Nintendo PC10 pcb, you strip out the roms and you put them on a NES cart and play it on your NES console
it works but it's not emulation
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| Naoki |
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Reged: 11/10/09
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: HowardC]
#311083 - 07/04/13 11:22 AM
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> > Very good news.
> >
> > Let's get this shit done the right way \o/ \o/ \o/
>
> Not sure what you mean by that. If "getting this shit done the right way" means
> dumping games that are already dumped because obviously the official mame dumpers are
> the only ones capable of doing it the right way and putting them on a driver that is
> probably 10 years out from working then sure.
>
> Don't misunderstand, I'm happy to see them in mame, but these are just direct x
> enabled pc games with a hardware dongle.. it isn't the same as when arcade games were
> on dedicated hardware and the only "proper" way to play them was via an emulator.
> Until a version of windows is released where xp x86 games no longer run and/or dx 7/8
> games no longer run the "proper way" to play these games is to just play them, on a
> regular pc with a very minor hack (despite what others might lead you to believe)
> that bypasses the hardware dongle.
>
> With two or three notable exceptions, these games "just run" on any pc today.
Or in my case of a board not even an emulator exists that can play the game fully so you need to real hardware.
Edited by Naoki (07/04/13 11:23 AM)
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: CTOJAH]
#311085 - 07/04/13 11:30 AM
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> Maybe You mean that Arcade PC Loader is not pure emulator, (which is true) but from
> my side of view(as a gamer, not preservator/collector) the reason for runing an
> "emulator" is clear enough - to play games !
I'm not sure why you bothered to post this on a forum dedicated to preservation.
Do you think we care what you think?
Having proper dumps from the arcade machine is important, if someone had written a loader that worked with original dumps and allowed you to select from a list at boot up then dynamically patched the games to work then that would be mildly interesting. Distributing hacked hard drive images is boring.
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: HowardC]
#311108 - 07/05/13 06:08 PM
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> Not sure what you mean by that. If "getting this shit done the right way" means
> dumping games that are already dumped because obviously the official mame dumpers are
> the only ones capable of doing it the right way and putting them on a driver that is
> probably 10 years out from working then sure.
Yes, that is exactly right. If the people who hacked the games had done it the right way then we wouldn't need to dump them at all.
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| CTOJAH |
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MAME Addict
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: ]
#311109 - 07/05/13 06:38 PM
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> I'm not sure why you bothered to post this on a forum dedicated to preservation.
>
Because my post is NOT against preservation, my post reflects my opinion about these games (Taito Type X/X2) and playability. Don't You think that all the army of MAME followers/fans just want to PLAY the games in their Arcade(MAME) cabinets or on their PCs ?
> Do you think we care what you think?
>
And vice versa.
> Having proper dumps from the arcade machine is important
>
I agree with this statement 100 % !
> if someone had written a
> loader that worked with original dumps and allowed you to select from a list at boot
> up then dynamically patched the games to work then that would be mildly interesting.
>
If that "procedure" is needed for having playable games - Why not ? We can archive "proper" dumps in MAME, meanwhile we will play "hacked" dumps in so called emulators. No one stops You from working on driver and improving it. I will support You all the time. For example : I play Naomi/Atomiswave games in DEMUL now because they are almost fully playable there and patiently waiting for these games to got playable status in MAME - Am I a bad person 'cause I am using Demul ?
> Distributing hacked hard drive images is boring.
>
No one forces You/me to download those bad images.
With respect
Stojan
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| CTOJAH |
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MAME Addict
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: etabeta]
#311111 - 07/05/13 07:15 PM
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> > Sorry, but I can NOT agree with You, not at all.
> > This "emulator" is ArcadePC Loader and I can assure You that almost every single
> game
> > (there are dumps all around the net - Taito Type X/X2 dumps) works on my comp.
>
> yeah, they work, but you are not emulating them. you are playing them as a PC game.
> it's like if you take a Nintendo PC10 pcb, you strip out the roms and you put them on
> a NES cart and play it on your NES console
>
> it works but it's not emulation
I am with You, all the way.
But, I can not see how those loaders/fake emus/hack tools can harm preservation/emulation, especially MAME ?
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: CTOJAH]
#311112 - 07/05/13 07:45 PM
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They don't directly harm it but they definitely waste our money and time (they could have also uploaded an exact copy) and result in a bunch of horse shit on our messageboards.
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| CTOJAH |
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MAME Addict
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Smitdogg]
#311113 - 07/05/13 08:10 PM
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Could You(or anyone else) just redump the hacked part of the code (usually it's tiny file/s) and use already dumped hard drive ? They don't change gfx or sound in their "hacked" dumps.
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: CTOJAH]
#311114 - 07/05/13 08:13 PM
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We want an exact hard drive copy. I don't understand what you are asking. What is the point, to save you bandwidth or something, we're supposed to guess and trust a cracker to fix some bullshit? Why ask this. Of course not.
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| CTOJAH |
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MAME Addict
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Smitdogg]
#311115 - 07/05/13 08:20 PM
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There are exact dumps out there, or at least they (dumpers) was saying so. They put hacked files in separate folder i.e. loaders that we (users/players) should put back in original game's folder and replace original exes or some other files.
Back then, when UnderGround Gamer was still alive, they had torrents with untouched dumps/chds.
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: CTOJAH]
#311116 - 07/05/13 08:22 PM
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I'm pretty sure we have those real ones separated already but I'm waiting for a couple of members to upload them/get them in mame.
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| CTOJAH |
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MAME Addict
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Smitdogg]
#311117 - 07/05/13 08:25 PM
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I am glad that we finally have mutual language, besides my poor English
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: CTOJAH]
#311119 - 07/06/13 02:01 AM
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> There are exact dumps out there, or at least they (dumpers) was saying so. They put
> hacked files in separate folder i.e. loaders that we (users/players) should put back
> in original game's folder and replace original exes or some other files.
> Back then, when UnderGround Gamer was still alive, they had torrents with untouched
> dumps/chds.
If the dongle/protection code is patched out and it runs on a normal everyday PC, it's not an original game anymore, but a hacked bootleg which is worthless to everyone in the arcade scene aside from those in in BRIC territory who can simply churn out millions of arcade machines from recycled/scrap Pentium 3/4 PCs without a cent going to the original game manufacturer.
If a bootleg is in a "real" arcade machine and came from a real arcade (and not a run-of-the-mill PC like the hacks), it will probably be dumped and included in MAME in the future, but a standalone Windows game is of no importance to MAME (in fact, it becomes MESS territory if anything).
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: CTOJAH]
#311122 - 07/06/13 12:22 PM
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> There are exact dumps out there, or at least they (dumpers) was saying so. They put
> hacked files in separate folder i.e. loaders that we (users/players) should put back
> in original game's folder and replace original exes or some other files.
That suggests that they were just zips of the game files and not the entire hard drive image including the OS etc, which is what we need for preservation or to emulate it in MAME.
This topic is about preserving the games, running games by extracting files from the original hard drive is not preservation.
We need a BIOS dump as well so that we can emulate the correct chipset.
I understand your point, I just don't see how it's relevant to this topic.
Edited by smf (07/06/13 12:26 PM)
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: CTOJAH]
#311137 - 07/06/13 08:50 PM
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> There are exact dumps out there, or at least they (dumpers) was saying so. They put
> hacked files in separate folder i.e. loaders that we (users/players) should put back
> in original game's folder and replace original exes or some other files.
> Back then, when UnderGround Gamer was still alive, they had torrents with untouched
> dumps/chds.
it is not dumps, but game files somehow extracted from encrypted images!
on real Type X/X2 HDD you will not see any "game.exe" or other game files, but one big encrypted file instead, which mounts as virtual drive and decrypts on the fly.
btw, I dont think any of that game's exe-s was hacked.
TTX loaders is just JVS-emulators, they hooks access to COM2-port and emulate JVS-IO board there, thats all that they do.
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Good job!!!
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: HowardC]
#311237 - 07/08/13 05:48 PM
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> Until a version of windows is released where xp x86 games no longer run and/or dx 7/8
> games no longer run the "proper way" to play these games is to just play them, on a
> regular pc with a very minor hack (despite what others might lead you to believe)
> that bypasses the hardware dongle.
No, it isn't. What you describe is simple piracy to get free games. It's not preservation, it's not sustainable, and it's not the right way.
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| ShouTime |
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PCB Collector
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Reged: 11/25/11
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Posts: 54
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Loc: Tokyo, Japan, Asia, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: Smitdogg]
#311286 - 07/09/13 10:25 AM
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> It is Generations and not 2 as I had there. I don't know anything about Goketsuji,
> maybe the Japan version is called Goketsuji and the export is PI5.
I've never seen an export version titled Power Instinct 5.
Goketsuji Ichizoku (Goketsuji Clan) is the title for the original game and the franchise name for Power Instinct in Japan. There have been arguably 6 games in the series (1, 2, Legends, 3 aka Groove on Fight, Matrimelee, and the TypeX game, Ancestral Memorial).
There is an upgraded version of this title which runs on TypeX2 NESICA but this has not been dumped.
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Re: DU Update: Type XXX
[Re: ShouTime]
#311288 - 07/09/13 11:15 AM
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/offtopic/
Could you please give a status update on Cyber Sterra dump progress?
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DU Update: Type XXX
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[Re: 
\o/ \o/ \o/
and putting them on a driver that is probably 10 years out from working then sure.
