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That time of year again
#318067 - 12/01/13 06:20 AM
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So what features and strides did you like in MAME and MESS this year and what would you like to see in 2014?
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318072 - 12/01/13 07:17 AM
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All the new supported add-on cards for MESS computer systems are pretty cool.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318075 - 12/01/13 08:38 AM
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Still want Crazy Otto and Maze-Man, as well as some laser disc games that Daphne does not do. I am an old timer, so all the games from my misspent youth are at or near perfect in Mame. Still would like to see some of the others like the Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr, Mario Brothers combo or even that Centipede, Milipede, Bowling combo that came out a few years back, as well as the Mame bootlegs actually working, but otherwise I am pretty happy.
EDIT, Namco Classics 2 plays fine, but says there is problems with it, and what the hell why we are at it, Emulate Foley's Multi-Cade. He tried to screw Mame, so screw him back.
Edited by sirscotty (12/01/13 08:42 AM)
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318076 - 12/01/13 08:42 AM
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Mr. Do |
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MAME Art Editor
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318083 - 12/01/13 11:14 AM
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> So what features and strides did you like implied in MAME and MESS this year and what
> would you like to see in 2014?
More than two artwork updates. Still got 115 to go to get to 1000+ artwork files.
And Star Rider. Definitely Star Rider.
Discrete games... those would be cool.
Less drama. Drama sucks.
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RELAX and just have fun. Remember, it's all about the games.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318092 - 12/01/13 11:28 PM
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> So what features and strides did you like implied in MAME and MESS this year and what
> would you like to see in 2014?
Most of everything has been done already, so I wish nearly impossible features:
- Less "Error: Unable to open the image file" for softlists and drivers, in particular for japanese computers.
- XBOX first generation emulation.
- N-Gage emulation (no emulator exists ever and while it's a pre-smartphone we have things like Cybiko and Game.com in MESS).
- Better Dreamcast game support.
- Correct accessory physics emulation in Virtua Fighter.
Apart from that, I'm satisfied with everything the effort has been put on. I can't ask for more.
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| Naoki |
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: BIOS-D]
#318097 - 12/02/13 02:48 AM
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> - XBOX first generation emulation.
The Chihiro driver is able to boot Outrun 2 so I'd oncider that Xbox emulation even if only partial 
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----
On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2
By gods I've found it!
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^^^^^Everything he said ^^^^^^
[Re: Mr. Do]
#318098 - 12/02/13 03:00 AM
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| italie |
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MAME owes italie many thank yous, hah
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AdvancedConflictResolution.c <nt>
[Re: joey35car]
#318099 - 12/02/13 03:10 AM
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> So what features and strides did you like implied in MAME and MESS this year and what
> would you like to see in 2014?
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| casm |
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Cinematronics > *
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Concur on all counts [nt]
[Re: Antny]
#318100 - 12/02/13 03:41 AM
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> Spot on Mr. Do
Yep, that about nails it.
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| Gyrovision |
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so many more levels...
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318104 - 12/02/13 07:18 AM
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: sirscotty]
#318106 - 12/02/13 07:43 AM
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> Still want Crazy Otto
Me too, but the dude with the ROMs refuses to let MAMEdev (or anyone else) have them.
> EDIT, Namco Classics 2 plays fine, but says there is problems with it
There definitely are problems. Keep playing, it will fuck up at some random point.
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> > - XBOX first generation emulation.
>
> The Chihiro driver is able to boot Outrun 2 so I'd oncider that Xbox emulation even
> if only partial
Oh, you were right. While no polygons, the driver loads bitmaps. If you wait long enough you get this. Maybe it's not that impossible at all.
I only hope XBOX emulation gets more attention before my first generation console dies. I have faith it will last for another 10 years more.
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318114 - 12/02/13 04:25 PM
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In 2014 I'd love decapping to make a return :-)
Anyone know what happened to dr decapitator?
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318115 - 12/02/13 04:46 PM
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There have been so many things, I'm happy to see the project alive and well after all these years. The HLSL additional tweaks have been fantastic, and I always love seeing fixes and updates to anything from the 70's, 80's, and early to mid-90's from MAME. The work being done for discrete gaming is awesome.
I am still holding on to the chance that the walk sound under Mario Bros. someday will be balanced better with the rest of the game's effects. It was a long arduous road to get Phoenix sounding ‘right’ several years back, including the realization and discovery that the schematics were incorrect for certain value(s), Mario Bros. may be in the same boat.
From MESS hoping to see some improved Atari console emulation. For the Atari 5200, some staple games like Ms. Pac-Man and Pitfall have problems. Improved Atari 2600 emulation with Haunted House working properly would be great. Atari 7800 emulation has seen some great improvements this year for several titles with slight regressions for a couple (Dig Dug and Xevious most noticeable) that I am hoping will improve.
For all three Atari console systems it would be great to have options to set the hue begin point and (auto) phase shifting of the color palettes as well as a manual color pot adjustment of the respective systems behaving as it would on the actual hardware.
Regardless, the work still being accomplished across the board is incredible. To look back at emulators like DASArcade and SPARCADE, seeing what MAME (And MESS) have evolved from with the very first MAME back in Feb 1997, is just mind-blowing.
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I had a look through that old thread and...
[Re: Gyrovision]
#318124 - 12/02/13 10:39 PM
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2012 wishes that came true in 2013 (some partially):
- Model 1 Star Wars mpeg music, maybe this was late 2012?
- Stunt Cycle, though in DICE
- Chihiro Outrun 2 progress
- Double Wings fully working
- HLSL on vector games
- Seibu SPI sound fixes
- DECO cassette game "Manhattan"
- smf fixed that annoying PSX GPU off-by-1-pixel bug
- skeleton driver for Taito Type X
- PGM Killing Blade and Gladiator
bonus: I fixed that Omega Race sound bug on MameTesters after looking through the wishes. 
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318125 - 12/02/13 11:44 PM
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> So what features and strides did you like implied in MAME and MESS this year and what
> would you like to see in 2014?
in 2014 .two words ... GUNMEN WARS
job done !!!
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i72600k 3.4-4ghz amd6450
http://www.youtube.com/user/santiago21b?feature=mhee
one game on my mind GUNMEN WARS plz mame ?
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: i7corejonny/]
#318127 - 12/03/13 12:29 AM
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Achieved: the great feature set of HLSL
For the future (pie in the sky):
- dynamic re-compiler for Naomi/Atomiswave
- use of the GPU to accelerate emulation speed
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318129 - 12/03/13 01:58 AM
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Borrowing somewhat from last year. Most of these are totally unrealistic, but WTH:
* Votrax SC-01 sound chip emulation for games like Q*bert and Wizard of Wor, but also the few Apple II Mockingboard games that used it.
* Qsound emulation
* Support for cross-platform rumble/force feedback effects (assuming it's even possible via SDL 2.0 etc)
* Continued psx driver improvements (really nice stuff from smf and others this year)
* DC driver speedups, assuming any more juice can be squeezed out of it
* SNES SuperFX improvements
* Tighter coupling of MAME and MESS
* Someone finding Bouncer and Stern's Journey (the latter being a machine featured in some Starcade episodes, really amazing game that might have been a classic but for its rarity, even at the time. Probably no longer in existence, alas)
* More schematics found for discrete circuitry games to complement Couriersud's amazing work
* Peace and harmony
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318130 - 12/03/13 02:22 AM
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Being the first emulator to support Nichibutsu My Vision console (with working video, sound and inputs) is pretty impressive, especially considering there are no PCB pictures on the interwebz.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318137 - 12/03/13 04:21 AM
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> what would you like to see in 2014?
Raiden 2's protection to finally be beaten.
Sound in Toaplan shmups, besides Batsugun's.
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"Note to Noobs:
We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: russ h.]
#318143 - 12/03/13 05:42 AM
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> In 2014 I'd love decapping to make a return :-)
>
> Anyone know what happened to dr decapitator?
His company was bought out for megabucks and he became the idle rich. I can't blame him one bit, and we've rounded up replacements, but progress remains slow.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318152 - 12/03/13 08:29 AM
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Yeah, mine is mostly copy-pasted from last year. I say mostly because we now have experimental multi-cart in Neo-Geo
[naomi.c] Get more games using the NAOMI and its associated revisions promoted to working status. As of 0.151, we're still at 1 working game the NAOMI family.
[schamp][sfight] Get this working as well, for nostalgia reasons
[Win32] Update the toolchain further, and with more regularity. MinGW-w64 is at Version 3.0 now...
[Win32] Drop DirectX 8 support and add DirectX 10 (and possibly even DirectX 11.x) - Granted, this will require a switch from DirectInput to XInput (for gamepads and joysticks) and the Windows message loop (for keyboards), but it removes one last vestigal reason to support Windows 9X/ME/2000, it will get us in line for the end of support for Windows XP in April 2014, and it will allow Direct2D support
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Biafra Republic]
#318153 - 12/03/13 10:01 AM
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> we now have experimental multi-cart in Neo-Geo
Unfortunately, the blog post and video were rushed much like the actual submission was.
Hopefully it can be correctly implemented in the not so distant future.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: B2K24]
#318156 - 12/03/13 12:52 PM
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Put HLSL custom config read/write back in for 2014...selfish bastards.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: krick]
#318158 - 12/03/13 01:41 PM
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Aye, it got out of control sometimes.
On our internal mailinglist, the only discussion that went 'over the line' was the one about license change. The observant public only sees the steamvents on forums, shoutbox, and blog. It's embarrassing to witness it sometimes.
FWIW, even though I'm not much of a loudmouth myself, I'm sorry. 
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: BIOS-D]
#318171 - 12/03/13 06:42 PM
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> Oh, you were right. While no polygons, the driver loads bitmaps. If you wait long
> enough you get this. Maybe it's not that impossible at all.
Everything on NV2A is polygons, so the bitmaps you see are textured quads
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318174 - 12/03/13 07:16 PM
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> So what features and strides did you like implied in MAME and MESS this year and what
> would you like to see in 2014?
Also, I'd love to see the music in G-Darius emulated.
That's supposed to be R. Belmont's territory (even though it's obviously not a Konami game), if memory serves.
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"Note to Noobs:
We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.
C.D.~"
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Trebor]
#318175 - 12/03/13 09:01 PM
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> I am still holding on to the chance that the walk sound under Mario Bros. someday
> will be balanced better with the rest of the game's effects. It was a long arduous
> road to get Phoenix sounding ‘right’ several years back, including the realization
> and discovery that the schematics were incorrect for certain value(s), Mario Bros.
> may be in the same boat.
>
Mario Bros. is not forgotten and I will revert to it at some time in the future. The 74LS624 is one of the big unknowns which needs to be better understood. The current work on the netlist subsystem eventually might get us an improved emulation.
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| DMala |
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Sleep is overrated
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Shoegazr]
#318176 - 12/03/13 10:35 PM
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> * Votrax SC-01 sound chip emulation for games like Q*bert and Wizard of Wor, but also
> the few Apple II Mockingboard games that used it.
Still rooting for this one.
> * Qsound emulation
This is cool, too.
> * Peace and harmony
Now you're dreaming.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Master O]
#318177 - 12/03/13 10:58 PM
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> Also, I'd love to see the music in G-Darius emulated.
>
> That's supposed to be R. Belmont's territory (even though it's obviously not a Konami
> game), if memory serves.
Yeah, I'll look at that again sometime. It's more possible now with bankdev.h, thankfully.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: couriersud]
#318180 - 12/04/13 02:30 AM
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> Mario Bros. is not forgotten and I will revert to it at some time in the future. The
> 74LS624 is one of the big unknowns which needs to be better understood. The current
> work on the netlist subsystem eventually might get us an improved emulation.
I really appreciate the reply, especially the specific details. You have done and are continuing to do fantastic work. THANK YOU!
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Biafra Republic]
#318186 - 12/04/13 04:28 AM
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> this will require a switch from DirectInput to XInput (for gamepads and
> joysticks)
Is that possible? At one point you could only get XInput drivers for the 360 pad.
Plus XInput has (or had) some horrible limitations (max joysticks, buttons etc).
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| yoeddy |
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Sound perfectionist
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318188 - 12/04/13 04:34 AM
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I'd like to see the Nintendo sounds get an overhaul. (Mario Bros, Donkey Kong Junior)
Super Mario World fixed.
Targ/Spectar sound fixed.
Run N Gun sound fixed.
Thanks,
Jason
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318189 - 12/04/13 05:46 AM
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I've no idea about new stuff, but 151 is awesome.
Vector shading is pretty much PNP, with no artifacts on my system.
All the classics play more intriguingly, and cooler:
- DK is the most interesting it has been. Not harder, just more interesting.
- Robotron plays like a dream. No more space warpage 'smoosh', no movement glut outside of the standard hardware slow-down, it rarely gigs you on collision detection, and evasion is, like, kung fu. I had the funnest game of Robo the other night I might have ever.
And, lastly, the sound (at least in anything emulated) is just better. Even mono, the detail is exquisite. The voice parts in Temple of Doom sounds like a quality recording. You can tell that's Harrison's voice. It's like, are these supposed to sound this good?
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Scifi frauds. SF illuminates.
_________________
Culture General Contact Unit (Eccentric)
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Biafra Republic]
#318190 - 12/04/13 05:58 AM
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> [Win32] Drop DirectX 8 support and add DirectX 10 (and possibly even DirectX 11.x) -
> Granted, this will require a switch from DirectInput to XInput (for gamepads and
> joysticks) and the Windows message loop (for keyboards), but it removes one last
> vestigal reason to support Windows 9X/ME/2000, it will get us in line for the end of
> support for Windows XP in April 2014, and it will allow Direct2D support
Why does it matter about the lack of Microsoft's support for Windows XP? Just because Microsoft drop support for XP doesn't mean that everyone will stop using it between now and April 2014, it isn't like the old days where Windows 98 really was outdated, bug-ridden and with severe limitations when it came to modern software.
Also, MAME cabinet owners might get shitty if they have to pull everything out and/or reinstall another OS just because their newly updated MAME crashes on load or errors out back to the desktop (in fact, they are probably more likely to just revert to the last version which worked with XP - assuming the up-to-date ones and not that cobweb-ridden Slot 1 (Pentium 2/3) board running DOS MAME and a handful of "golden era" games).
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: R. Belmont]
#318191 - 12/04/13 06:02 AM
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> > Still want Crazy Otto
>
> Me too, but the dude with the ROMs refuses to let MAMEdev (or anyone else) have them.
It was long ago emulated/simulated in Misfit MAME, so I consider that good enough. It didn't catch on with me, so I haven't played it since the initial trial.
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Scifi frauds. SF illuminates.
_________________
Culture General Contact Unit (Eccentric)
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: R. Belmont]
#318194 - 12/04/13 06:33 AM
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Still don't understand what the big deal is why he won't release the roms. Same with marble madness 2. :P
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318212 - 12/04/13 06:27 PM
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> Still don't understand what the big deal is why he won't release the roms.
Because the guy that has the ROMs made a big deal (including in a national magazine and at CAX 2012) about being the only guy with the ROMs, and then realized he'd accidentally made it one-stop shopping for Namco legal ;-)
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#318228 - 12/05/13 10:50 AM
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> > [Win32] Drop DirectX 8 support and add DirectX 10 (and possibly even DirectX 11.x)
> -
> > Granted, this will require a switch from DirectInput to XInput (for gamepads and
> > joysticks) and the Windows message loop (for keyboards), but it removes one last
> > vestigal reason to support Windows 9X/ME/2000, it will get us in line for the end
> of
> > support for Windows XP in April 2014, and it will allow Direct2D support
>
> Why does it matter about the lack of Microsoft's support for Windows XP? Just because
> Microsoft drop support for XP doesn't mean that everyone will stop using it between
> now and April 2014, it isn't like the old days where Windows 98 really was outdated,
> bug-ridden and with severe limitations when it came to modern software.
Just because people won't stop using between now and April doesn't mean we should encourage bad habits. Besides, this will be a good thing, as this will allow us to support newer and better things, like DirectX 10/11.
> Also, MAME cabinet owners might get shitty if they have to pull everything out and/or
> reinstall another OS just because their newly updated MAME crashes on load or errors
> out back to the desktop (in fact, they are probably more likely to just revert to the
> last version which worked with XP - assuming the up-to-date ones and not that
> cobweb-ridden Slot 1 (Pentium 2/3) board running DOS MAME and a handful of "golden
> era" games).
To be honest, most of these people using Windows XP who can't update their PCs to a decent version will likely jump ship to some form of Linux, preferably a distribution with a rolling release.
For the rest who are either unable or unwilling, I recommend this handy little graphic:
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318231 - 12/05/13 02:14 PM
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More decapped chips, more discrete games and improvements over the UME, unifying both MAME/MESS into a single project.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: R. Belmont]
#318234 - 12/05/13 03:12 PM
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> > Still don't understand what the big deal is why he won't release the roms.
>
> Because the guy that has the ROMs made a big deal (including in a national magazine
> and at CAX 2012) about being the only guy with the ROMs, and then realized he'd
> accidentally made it one-stop shopping for Namco legal ;-)
I thought I read some where that they had more than one Crazy Otto out in the fielding testing....... Hmmmmmmmmm...........
So I went to a warehouse raid, and I picked up a Galaga, Tron, Journey, Tapper (Budweiser), Joust and a Pac-Man. Machines were in pretty bad shape, and covered in dust. Took them home and unloaded. Couple of days later I cleaned up the Pac-Man, capped the monitor, and powered it on. Nothing. Looking around the board, I found a blown fuse. Replaced the fuse and it booted. Strangest thing... It had the Pac-Man title screen with some hacked graphics, but the maze on the attract screen was Ms. Pac-Man. Figured some hillbilly somewhere started doing a conversion from Pac to Ms. Pac and never finished it. I wanted a real Pac-Man, not some Mickey Mouse throw together. Ended up selling it to some fella on Craigslist. Got $60 for it. SUCKER!!! I used the money to buy a real Pac board.
OK... That's my story and I am sticking to it!!!!
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: R. Belmont]
#318245 - 12/05/13 08:40 PM
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> Everything on NV2A is polygons, so the bitmaps you see are textured quads
Really? That makes it even better. I remember back then quads were yet another problem to emulate XBOX properly with the hardware of the time.
Now that x86 hardware is getting to be emulated properly, maybe we can have yet more impossible features like emulating MKI Arcade system or Technomotion custom hardware. Those dance machines are close to extinction too.
And now that I'm talking about dance machines, how could I forget about sound in Bemami System 573 Digital? And everything related to mp3 and mpeg playback (video mahjong for example).
But anyway, everything I said is still asking too much. It will come eventually I guess.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: BIOS-D]
#318246 - 12/05/13 08:51 PM
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> And now that I'm talking about dance machines, how could I forget about sound in
> Bemami System 573 Digital?
I've wanted to do this for a while now, but OG's too busy to add layer 3 support to the mpeg decoder. And I don't want to distract him too much from the perfect 68000 core because that's an entirely new level of dev porn.
Regarding PC-based stuff, I imagine that'll get better in the next year. I'd love to see some of the older ones like Game Crystal (which boots Win95!) up and running.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Biafra Republic]
#318247 - 12/05/13 09:02 PM
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> To be honest, most of these people using Windows XP who can't update their PCs to a
> decent version will likely jump ship to some form of Linux, preferably a distribution
> with a rolling release.
That's completely ridiculous. There's no reason not to upgrade to Windows 7 unless your computer is so old it doesn't meet the minimum requirements. You can have it look and operate just like XP.
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| CTOJAH |
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MAME Addict
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318248 - 12/05/13 09:33 PM
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: sirscotty]
#318251 - 12/05/13 11:59 PM
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If it was a non boot I wouldn't call him a sucker at all. It doesn't make any difference what's on the roms. Anybody with a programmer could fix that in an hour.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318266 - 12/06/13 05:21 AM
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My wishlist for MAME going forward:
1.MPEG emulation for Star Wars Trilogy
2.Fixes for all the sound issues in Suzuka 8 Hours/Suzuka 8 Hours 2 as well as dumping/decapping the missing chips for it (IIRC they are for the MCU that controls I/O)
3.Playable and working Keyboardmania (although I suspect I will be disappointed with it in that all the songs are likely to be Japanese/Korean crap I have never heard of)
4.More dumps of undumped CPS1 Street Fighter 2 revisions (or bootlegs)
5.NSS Super Mario World working 100% (I know its had improvements lately, cant test it on 0.151 since I cant find an up-to-date rom and no I am not asking for one here
6.More "world/Australia" versions of games dumped (i.e. in the case where the version that would have been seen in Australia is different from what's in MAME already)
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: jonwil]
#318276 - 12/06/13 10:00 AM
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> 5.NSS Super Mario World working 100% (I know its had improvements lately, cant test
> it on 0.151 since I cant find an up-to-date rom and no I am not asking for one here
at the moment, it is not working due to incomplete emulation of the communications between the main system and the menu cpu
I suggest you to play the snes version isntead
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| Naoki |
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: R. Belmont]
#318277 - 12/06/13 01:05 PM
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> > And now that I'm talking about dance machines, how could I forget about sound in
> > Bemami System 573 Digital?
>
> I've wanted to do this for a while now, but OG's too busy to add layer 3 support to
> the mpeg decoder. And I don't want to distract him too much from the perfect 68000
> core because that's an entirely new level of dev porn.
>
> Regarding PC-based stuff, I imagine that'll get better in the next year. I'd love to
> see some of the older ones like Game Crystal (which boots Win95!) up and running.
I thought there was a patent issue with Layer 3 support in the 573 Digital games, or do the years fly by and this isn't an issue anymore?
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| Naoki |
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: jonwil]
#318278 - 12/06/13 01:13 PM
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> 3.Playable and working Keyboardmania (although I suspect I will be disappointed with
> it in that all the songs are likely to be Japanese/Korean crap I have never heard of)
Keyboardmania does work in mame, atleast it does for me, but playing it without a real keyboard is a challenge. If you're stuck on the wheel error, you just have to set the analogue wheel to 128 (on my setup that's pressing left) and it'll boot fine
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Naoki]
#318281 - 12/06/13 02:28 PM
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Ok, I thought Keyboardmania needed MPEG audio work and therefore didn't work.
I still stand by my "it has no songs I have ever heard of and therefore its not going to be good" line though (per the song lists on Wikipedia)
I am sure if I look hard enough out there on the internet I could find a game similar to Keyboardmania but for PC, with MIDI keyboard support and with songs I have actually heard of (and like)
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318282 - 12/06/13 02:44 PM
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Laserdisc chds... I really wonder what happened to them.....
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Naoki]
#318283 - 12/06/13 03:01 PM
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> I thought there was a patent issue with Layer 3 support in the 573 Digital games
The first rule of RB changing his mind in a direction favorable to you is not to argue with it. Unless you really want to wait until 2026.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Smitdogg]
#318299 - 12/06/13 10:06 PM
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> That's completely ridiculous. There's no reason not to upgrade to Windows 7 unless
> your computer is so old it doesn't meet the minimum requirements. You can have it
> look and operate just like XP.
Except where Microsoft screwed up the way interlaced resolutions work in Windows 7. People using arcade monitors will likely be using XP 64-bit edition for a very long time.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: krick]
#318300 - 12/06/13 10:08 PM
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Oh, I was under the impression nobody here actually owned real arcade hardware. Actually I'm still under that impression.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: krick]
#318301 - 12/06/13 10:29 PM
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Grrr I'm about to buy a real arcade monitor and you are saying I will have issues running win7 64bit? What about using the ArcadeVGA 3000 on win7 64 does it work then? What about win8 64 did they fix the problem?
Thanks
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318304 - 12/06/13 11:17 PM
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> Grrr I'm about to buy a real arcade monitor and you are saying I will have issues
> running win7 64bit? What about using the ArcadeVGA 3000 on win7 64 does it work then?
> What about win8 64 did they fix the problem?
We're getting way off topic now, but Windows 7 has issues (at least when running MAME in DDRAW mode) when you switch from a non-interlaced resolution to an interlaced resolution (or possibly the other way around). Also, it reports interlaced resolutions as having 1/2 the refresh rate. If you dig around on BYOAC, I think people have worked around some of the issues but I gave up and went back to XP 64-bit.
Regarding the ArcadeVGA 3000, there's this bit on the install page...
Quote:
Important note about Windows 7 and 8
There is currently a known issue with Windows 7 switching between resolutions, which is caused by a bug in Windows 7 / DirectX.
If the desktop is running at an interlaced resolution (eg 640 x 480 on a standard-res monitor), When any game which uses a non-interlaced res is started (which is pretty much any Mame game), an error resuts "Unable to initialize directdraw".
Note this only happens if the desktop is running at an interlaced res, which is the case when using a standard res monitor (not a multi-frequency monitor).
There is a workaround for this: Run the desktop at a non-interlaced res such as 640 x 288. This might mean using a front end which has a 640 x 288 mode such as Mamewah.
The resolution can be switched using the Quickres icon.
There are also 3 useful utilities which can be downloaded here. These are simple programs which change to the specified res. So, you can configure a front end to run 640x288.exe to change to this resolution before starting the game. Once this has happened, Mame will then be able to invoke the correct resolution for the game.
Note to Mame devs: This issue does not arise if D3D is selected. But owing to not being able to disable stretching in D3D in Mame this results in a poor quality picture.
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| Naoki |
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: R. Belmont]
#318307 - 12/07/13 12:03 AM
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> > I thought there was a patent issue with Layer 3 support in the 573 Digital games
>
> The first rule of RB changing his mind in a direction favorable to you is not to
> argue with it. Unless you really want to wait until 2026.
I wasn't arguing, I'm all for it but I just wasn't aware this had changed
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Naoki]
#318308 - 12/07/13 12:14 AM
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The biggest hurdle is it hasn't been done. Ideally the mas decoder chip would be decapped to get the internal rom and the undocumented DSP inside emulated.
HLE'ing it is boring, for DDR the hardware is still readily available and you can get a single disc DVD bootleg with all the mixes on.
There are some much more interesting developments that the usual suspects have in their sights.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Roman]
#318311 - 12/07/13 03:29 AM
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>Laserdisc chds... I really wonder what happened to them.....
You and me both. I thought Aaron was the only one set up to encode the rips with the needed information. Then I thought I read that we were waiting on one of the Daphne guys to rip the discs.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Roman]
#318313 - 12/07/13 04:03 AM
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> Laserdisc chds... I really wonder what happened to them.....
Yeah, that would be on the top of my most wanted list.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Antny]
#318314 - 12/07/13 04:34 AM
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The last I heard custom hardware would be needed in order to do that, including a custom programmed fpga chip. Even if it got made, how many would there be, one? Can one person even rip them all? Every month it feels like it's even further away. I was fine with the old format, though 640x480 would probably be a better choice.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Smitdogg]
#318317 - 12/07/13 05:38 AM
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>Every month it feels like it's even further away.
Me too. I just wonder how long the discs will hold out considering how old they are. I know the suffer from something called "bit rot". I was looking at the Cube Quest rip the other day and kept thinking what it may have looked like when the disc was brand new.
I just wish we saw some more progress....
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: R. Belmont]
#318321 - 12/07/13 07:40 AM
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> > In 2014 I'd love decapping to make a return :-)
> >
> > Anyone know what happened to dr decapitator?
>
> His company was bought out for megabucks and he became the idle rich. I can't blame
> him one bit, and we've rounded up replacements, but progress remains slow.
What's holding things up if you've found replacements? Lack of time to actually re-start decapping? Personal issues?
Just curious.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Smitdogg]
#318324 - 12/07/13 11:20 AM
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> If it was a non boot I wouldn't call him a sucker at all. It doesn't make any
> difference what's on the roms. Anybody with a programmer could fix that in an hour.
You missed the joke SmitDogg...
It was a humorous way for the guy who had the 'only "known" roms in existence' to release them without having to worry about getting busted by Namco.
Some Hillbilly buys a cab that had a lost set of Crazy Otto in it, turned it on, and flipped when he thought someone messed up on a conversion, and sold the board to some unknown person on the net and bought a working Pac board. Buyer of rom board is anonymous and is never seen or heard from again, but he dumps his roms and releases them on the net. Perfect alibi for the guy with the original roms.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: sirscotty]
#318326 - 12/07/13 11:58 AM
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> It was a humorous way for the guy who had the 'only "known" roms in existence' to
> release them without having to worry about getting busted by Namco.
I doubt Namco are particularly worried. Usually it's about keeping the value high for when they intend to sell it. Often you have to promise the person you got it from that you're not going to do it too, people don't get that as they don't have a reputation that could be destroyed in one go.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: sirscotty]
#318327 - 12/07/13 01:15 PM
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Oh, I read the post by itself/out of order as a new reply forgetting about the Otto crap.
The reason he is paranoid is he has gone through 2 different lawsuits with Namco over Ms. Pac stuff in the past including him suing Namco over a re-release in the early 2000s, iirc. That's why he is paranoid, because Namco probably wants revenge on his stupid ass. Otherwise, nobody has ever been sued over dumping and leaking a rom to my knowledge so there is no reason to be so scared about it.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: krick]
#318352 - 12/08/13 02:09 AM
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Ahhhm, I do this anyways. You have to do this, really, to accomodate as many games as possible displaying within the boundary of the screen. I don't bother with interlace resolutions, though......
> There is a workaround for this: Run the desktop at a non-interlaced res such as 640 x 288. This might mean using a front end which has a 640 x 288 mode such as Mamewah.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Smitdogg]
#318353 - 12/08/13 02:09 AM
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> Oh, I was under the impression nobody here actually owned real arcade hardware.
> Actually I'm still under that impression.
Define real.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318356 - 12/08/13 04:34 AM
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Official lamp, motor, solenoid etc output/force feedback support
Q-sound emulation
PSX audio improvements
Proper model 2 emulation (now that ElSemi’s emu is ancient history)
Seibu SPI sounds effect fixes (most noticeable in Viper Phase 1)
Proper sound emulation for GTI Club and other affected Konami drivers
Real network support (cab link etc)
Not related to MAME but I really hope a solution for JVS interfacing comes about which works with stuff like analog inputs and FFB.
Also this "perfect" 68000 emulation sounds interesting, is there anywhere I can read up about that?
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| Naoki |
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Reged: 11/10/09
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: RetroRepair]
#318427 - 12/09/13 12:52 PM
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> Official lamp, motor, solenoid etc output/force feedback support
> Real network support (cab link etc)
These would be awesome
> Not related to MAME but I really hope a solution for JVS interfacing comes about
> which works with stuff like analog inputs and FFB.
There's a JVS-Pac which converts the JVS data into the USB HID format if that's what you meant?
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Naoki]
#318429 - 12/09/13 02:09 PM
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> There's a JVS-Pac which converts the JVS data into the USB HID format if that's what
> you meant?
It doesn't handle analog controls or anything else sadly. Only digital.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Master O]
#318436 - 12/09/13 06:23 PM
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> What's holding things up if you've found replacements? Lack of time to actually
> re-start decapping? Personal issues?
Decapping (and getting good high-detail photos of the die) involves expensive equipment and well-regulated chemicals that would really like to kill you given the chance. So everyone who does it is also doing so commercially or academically and that of course has to come first.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#318451 - 12/09/13 11:30 PM
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| CTOJAH |
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MAME Addict
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Diet Go Go Fan]
#318452 - 12/09/13 11:56 PM
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| italie |
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MAME owes italie many thank yous, hah
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Oh...here he is....<nt>
[Re: Gyrovision]
#318836 - 12/17/13 04:43 AM
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Now I have one.....
[Re: joey35car]
#318846 - 12/17/13 07:03 AM
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Tempest star field to shine.x
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#319185 - 12/24/13 05:44 AM
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>So what features and strides did you like implied in MAME and MESS this year
Further progress/continuation of net list (discrete) updates, more Arcadia titles preserved, and more PEPlus gambling hardware preserved.
>and what would you like to see in 2014?
Any further non-cpu progress will be great (MAME and DICE), more DECO cassettes preserved, any odd hard-to-find cpu based 1970s era games, and any remaining Arcadia titles not yet preserved such as Rockford.
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| H@P |
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Lurker in perpetuity
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#319255 - 12/25/13 01:27 PM
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netlist PSE Desert Patrol
Marble Man (no matter how much it sucks)
Crazy Otto (no matter how much he's sued)
trogp, raflsiau, etc.
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: H@P]
#319261 - 12/25/13 09:31 PM
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>Marble Man (no matter how much it sucks)
>Crazy Otto (no matter how much he's sued)
LOL.
>trogp, raflsiau, etc.
I remember the raflsiau drama, but forgot about the other.
>netlist PSE Desert Patrol
Unfortunately being a multiple board hardware game, it will be a wait.
For now, several various single board games are emulated.
http://adamulation.blogspot.com/
Adam and Rich also have schematics for some dual board games like Ramtek Baseball and Allied Leisure Street Burners.
Next round of schematics going to them might be Ramtek Trivia and PSE Knights in Armor since those are single board games. Roms are still needed for Knights in Armor so it might only be partially playable or more likely maybe not....depending how much data each of the two roms of Knights in Armor controls.
PSE Knights in Armor
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1
Edited by gregf (02/25/14 06:39 AM)
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Smitdogg]
#319432 - 12/29/13 07:06 PM
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I guess the question needs to be asked: is the current method indeed sufficient, or do we hold out for a capture of the undecoded composite video? (or even *gasp* the raw RF on the disc?)
Arguably, the current format is sub-optimal because it uses lossless storage for a signal that has already undergone "lossy" conversion from composite to component format. However, it's the best we can do without exotic, unproven solutions.
I suppose a third option is to use a lossy format with smaller files. This would make a lot of people happy, but goes against the goal of preservation, so I'm not keen on this alternative.
All is not lost, though... Captures are happening that are compatible with the current CHD format, but there's not much interest in releasing them if they're likely to be replaced.
And that's where things have been stuck for quite a while now.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: WarrenO]
#319445 - 12/29/13 09:10 PM
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> I guess the question needs to be asked: is the current method indeed sufficient, or
> do we hold out for a capture of the undecoded composite video? (or even *gasp* the
> raw RF on the disc?)
>
> Arguably, the current format is sub-optimal because it uses lossless storage for a
> signal that has already undergone "lossy" conversion from composite to component
> format. However, it's the best we can do without exotic, unproven solutions.
>
> I suppose a third option is to use a lossy format with smaller files. This would make
> a lot of people happy, but goes against the goal of preservation, so I'm not keen on
> this alternative.
>
> All is not lost, though... Captures are happening that are compatible with the
> current CHD format, but there's not much interest in releasing them if they're likely
> to be replaced.
>
> And that's where things have been stuck for quite a while now.
Thank you very much for your work in Daphne and your researches in this area, it's much appreciated. Thank you also for coming here tell us about it. It's really comforting to know that something is being done about it.
I'd be very happy seeing these new captures released, no matter if it will be replaced or not. It seems to me that, being these captures already done, releasing it wouldn't be the hardest part anyway. But, of course, it's not my work, it's not my call, so I wont even pretend I feel entitled to anything, but damn, that would be so cool.
Thanks again.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: WarrenO]
#319452 - 12/30/13 02:25 AM
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Do you think the new format will be done in 2014? 2015? Will non-rotted discs exist when it's done? If it's money holding it back for parts or whatever can you just set up a paypal?
I would say if anyone has rips at the current format go ahead and release them. They could be replaced the same way higher quality samples, redumps or hard drive chds with settings properly defaulted could.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: WarrenO]
#319453 - 12/30/13 02:47 AM
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> I guess the question needs to be asked: is the current method indeed sufficient, or
> do we hold out for a capture of the undecoded composite video? (or even *gasp* the
> raw RF on the disc?)
Wut? The disc doesn't have RF on it. It has discrete-time continuous-value samples of the composite video encoded as pairs of pits. Distance between pits gives the value.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#319487 - 12/30/13 03:47 PM
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> Do you think the new format will be done in 2014? 2015? Will non-rotted discs exist
> when it's done? If it's money holding it back for parts or whatever can you just set
> up a paypal?
>
> I would say if anyone has rips at the current format go ahead and release them. They
> could be replaced the same way higher quality samples, redumps or hard drive chds
> with settings properly defaulted could.
There's really no ETA for it at this point, unless things are happening that I'm not aware of, so perhaps some more rips in the current format are in order. Maybe 2014 will see some activity...
> Wut? The disc doesn't have RF on it. It has discrete-time continuous-value samples of
> the composite video encoded as pairs of pits. Distance between pits gives the value.
It's "RF" in that the video and audio are modulated on carrier frequencies before the combined signal is encoded into pits, and would need to be demodulated in software to recover the original signals.
I like this in theory, but in practice it may just be too much trouble. You end up with a "complete" capture of one particular playback by one particular player of one particular disc. Is this sufficiently "definitive" to be worth the effort?
Edited by WarrenO (12/30/13 03:48 PM)
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: WarrenO]
#319497 - 12/30/13 09:57 PM
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Warren, thanks for the update. I think ripping them in the current format would be great. I doubt anyone is going to do anything to improve things any time soon. Besides, with bit rot eventually happening to all the discs, sooner than later would be more accurate than anything else. I don't know a whole helluva lot about capturing the video/audio. I think better rips could eventually be made from NOS discs later....if they haven't succumbed to bit rot.
Maybe you could answer a question. The current Cube Quest rip looks awful. I'm sure that has nothing to do with the way it was ripped. I'm assuming it has to do with the disc degrading over time. It would be curious to compare it to what it was like when it was new. Am I correct with my assumption? Wouldn't "time is of the essence" for accuracy?
I lied it was two questions.
Edited by Antny (12/31/13 12:23 AM)
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: WarrenO]
#319580 - 01/01/14 04:24 PM
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> It's "RF" in that the video and audio are modulated on carrier frequencies before the
> combined signal is encoded into pits, and would need to be demodulated in software to
> recover the original signals.
>
> I like this in theory, but in practice it may just be too much trouble. You end up
> with a "complete" capture of one particular playback by one particular player of one
> particular disc. Is this sufficiently "definitive" to be worth the effort?
If you capture the modulated signal, you eliminate the non-linear FM decoder from the player, so it only depends on the characteristics of the integrator, S/H and filter. Do variations in these components affect the signal in a way that significantly changes the demodulated video?
The ultimate raw dump would of course be inter-pit distances, but the only way to get an unadulterated copy of that would be from the data used to generate the pressing masters.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Antny]
#319591 - 01/01/14 07:12 PM
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> Maybe you could answer a question. The current Cube Quest rip looks awful. I'm sure
> that has nothing to do with the way it was ripped.
Laserdiscs in general look like shit in MAME because they're 480i and we don't have a deinterlacer, so motion tends to shatter into every-other-scanline artifacts.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: WarrenO]
#319593 - 01/01/14 07:14 PM
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> All is not lost, though... Captures are happening that are compatible with the
> current CHD format, but there's not much interest in releasing them if they're likely
> to be replaced.
MAME adds dumps that are known to need replacing all the time. I think it would generate a great deal of good will if more dumps in the current format appeared so we can at least make the games run while perfection is pursued.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Smitdogg]
#319653 - 01/02/14 04:18 PM
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Can you expound on that a bit? What's the old vs new version? Aaron's blog posts in '08 described the need to capturing the VBI region. Is that what would require custom hardware?
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: bdam]
#319654 - 01/02/14 04:28 PM
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I haven't memorized all the tech info.
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: bdam]
#319662 - 01/02/14 06:58 PM
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> Can you expound on that a bit? What's the old vs new version? Aaron's blog posts in
> '08 described the need to capturing the VBI region. Is that what would require custom
> hardware?
The current format can be produced using a couple of specific ATI video capture cards and some custom software. It's not prohibitively difficult to do, but getting good results takes a lot of care and patience.
Custom hardware would allow us to capture the video before it has been converted from composite to component form. This is a lossy, imprecise process that is dependent on the decoding algorithms built into the video capture hardware. For archiving, we'd greatly prefer to keep it in composite format, and do the decoding in software using whatever algorithms people can cook up in the future.
Ideally, we'd take it a step further by capturing the combined audio and video signal coming off of the disc, so we can do the audio/video demodulation in software later as well.
> If you capture the modulated signal, you eliminate the non-linear FM decoder from the
> player, so it only depends on the characteristics of the integrator, S/H and filter.
> Do variations in these components affect the signal in a way that significantly
> changes the demodulated video?
That is a very good question. Given that I've never seen two laserdisc players that look the same (even two of the same model), there's likely to be some variation. We really won't know until we have actual signal captures and a software chain to validate them.
>
> The ultimate raw dump would of course be inter-pit distances, but the only way to get
> an unadulterated copy of that would be from the data used to generate the pressing
> masters.
This doesn't really exist as data anywhere, though, does it? I think this happens on they fly during mastering, and may not even be a digital process.
> Maybe you could answer a question. The current Cube Quest rip looks awful. I'm sure
> that has nothing to do with the way it was ripped. I'm assuming it has to do with the
> disc degrading over time. It would be curious to compare it to what it was like when
> it was new. Am I correct with my assumption? Wouldn't "time is of the essence" for
> accuracy?
The worst thing about this rip is the red text, largely due to NTSC's inability to handle deep reds. Even on the original machine it looks kind of grainy, though CRTs are a lot more forgiving than modern hi-res LCDs. The specific player and capture card settings used have an effect on this, too, though. (See previous comments about the desirability of capturing the signal as early as possible and tweaking algorithms in software.)
Regardless of the capture methods used, most LD rips are going to look pretty rough without any sort of noise reduction and enhancement algorithms applied after the fact.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: WarrenO]
#319666 - 01/02/14 08:12 PM
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> Custom hardware would allow us to capture the video before it has been converted from
> composite to component form. This is a lossy, imprecise process that is dependent on
> the decoding algorithms built into the video capture hardware. For archiving, we'd
> greatly prefer to keep it in composite format, and do the decoding in software using
> whatever algorithms people can cook up in the future.
MAME's HLSL system can potentially decode an NTSC composite video bitstream to RGB on the GPU, which has the potential of saving a great deal of processing time and working on very low-end hardware that has a shader-capable GPU (e.g. the dreaded Raspberry Pi). I know Ryan's very interested in pursuing this if someone can create such a bitstream from a laserdisc.
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| FMecha |
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MAME's (Armchair) Motorsports Consultant
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: joey35car]
#319671 - 01/02/14 10:12 PM
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| Naoki |
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Reged: 11/10/09
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: FMecha]
#319676 - 01/03/14 12:09 AM
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Guru said he would dump it if he got $3000 in donations sent directly to him for it. Quoting directly from him "The current Wyvern F0 donation total is $685."
I'm not gonna argue for or against, I don't know the full story but just informing
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Naoki]
#319680 - 01/03/14 01:00 AM
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> Guru said he would dump it if he got $3000 in donations sent directly to him for it.
> Quoting directly from him "The current Wyvern F0 donation total is $685."
>
> I'm not gonna argue for or against, I don't know the full story but just informing
If it is a rare board yea it worth a lot. But I don't think it worth around 3k. Who ever was selling that much doesn't know the value of that board worth. I wouldn't waste my time on it unless it is cheaper. Maybe $1,250 or less if not being touch.
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| FMecha |
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MAME's (Armchair) Motorsports Consultant
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Naoki]
#319702 - 01/03/14 07:55 AM
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> Guru said he would dump it if he got $3000 in donations sent directly to him for it.
> Quoting directly from him "The current Wyvern F0 donation total is $685."
>
> I'm not gonna argue for or against, I don't know the full story but just informing
Smitdogg was, as you know, not impressed with the Guru on Wyverngate, to the point Smit deleted Guru's page. Ridiculous and knee-jerk. Would Guru accept $2315 from some-one else that isn't Smit? (as long we send the money directly)
FAKE EDIT: Actually, Guru asked $6000.
> If it is a rare board yea it worth a lot. But I don't think it worth around 3k. Who
> ever was selling that much doesn't know the value of that board worth. I wouldn't
> waste my time on it unless it is cheaper. Maybe $1,250 or less if not being touch.
Haze has a say on it, I think in a comment section of a Cool Riders WIP, but forget which.
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: That time of year again
[Re: Dullaron]
#319705 - 01/03/14 08:46 AM
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>If it is a rare board yea it worth a lot. But I don't think it worth around 3k. Who ever
>was selling that much doesn't know the value of that board worth. I wouldn't waste my
>time on it unless it is cheaper.
The expense was not just the pcb itself, but the complete cab it came with from a seller in Japan. Add in shipping costs of the cab going from one country to another as well. iirc it was shipped overseas.
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