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No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
#350881 - 03/01/16 08:03 PM Attachment: error.jpg 156 KB (0 downloads)
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Compiling current MAME GIT with this option enabled in the makefile produces this result at startup (attached picture). The internal UI is not loaded and launching a game directly from command-line is the same.
No more support for DirectInput 7 so?
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Posts: 9714
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Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Mamesick]
#350882 - 03/01/16 09:29 PM
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> Compiling current MAME GIT with this option enabled in the makefile produces this
> result at startup (attached picture). The internal UI is not loaded and launching a
> game directly from command-line is the same.
> No more support for DirectInput 7 so?
Please state your use case for DirectInput 7, and stop assuming things.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#350883 - 03/01/16 09:36 PM
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What are you saying? I simply compiled a plain version of MAME with current GIT. I enabled DirectInput 7 for testing purpose because I have an old joypad that doesn't work with DirectInput version 8.
The error happens with the joystick de-attached. If you are still able to read, it's a global error because it's saying I have no keyboard....
With DirectInput 8 all is fine as usual. I'm not assuming anything, the error speaks for itself.
Edited by Mamesick (03/01/16 09:37 PM)
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Mamesick]
#350887 - 03/02/16 12:01 AM
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> What are you saying? I simply compiled a plain version of MAME with current GIT. I
> enabled DirectInput 7 for testing purpose because I have an old joypad that doesn't
> work with DirectInput version 8.
> The error happens with the joystick de-attached. If you are still able to read, it's
> a global error because it's saying I have no keyboard....
> With DirectInput 8 all is fine as usual. I'm not assuming anything, the error speaks
> for itself.
Well, the GIT commit log shows that the input system was completely refactored into OSD modules. I don't see anything about trying to remove support for DirectInput 7.
So if it's broken, I guess that it's probably just an accident. But even it's an accident, there is probably a limited number of decades that you can count on a particular technology still working... So who knows when or if it will be fixed. Maybe on the next commit or maybe never, right?
But you're a dev, right? Maybe it's easy for you to fix!
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Mamesick]
#350895 - 03/02/16 01:27 AM
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> What are you saying? I simply compiled a plain version of MAME with current GIT. I
> enabled DirectInput 7 for testing purpose because I have an old joypad that doesn't
> work with DirectInput version 8.
So as RB said: State your use case. Give us an exact manufacturer, brand, model, driver revision, etc. for the controller you're using.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Mamesick]
#350898 - 03/02/16 02:33 AM
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> The error happens with the joystick de-attached. If you are still able to read, it's
> a global error because it's saying I have no keyboard....
> With DirectInput 8 all is fine as usual. I'm not assuming anything, the error speaks
> for itself.
A quick fix just went in, can you test it?
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: SoltanGris42]
#350919 - 03/02/16 06:46 AM
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> But you're a dev, right? Maybe it's easy for you to fix!
No, I'm not a MAME Developer. I made my own version of MAME and release it to the public.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Robbbert]
#350921 - 03/02/16 07:09 AM
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> > The error happens with the joystick de-attached. If you are still able to read,
> it's
> > a global error because it's saying I have no keyboard....
> > With DirectInput 8 all is fine as usual. I'm not assuming anything, the error
> speaks
> > for itself.
>
> A quick fix just went in, can you test it?
Yes, it works perfectly now, as it was before the OSD modules changes. Thanks.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Mamesick]
#350934 - 03/02/16 04:20 PM
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> What are you saying? I simply compiled a plain version of MAME with current GIT. I
> enabled DirectInput 7 for testing purpose because I have an old joypad that doesn't
> work with DirectInput version 8.
> The error happens with the joystick de-attached. If you are still able to read, it's
> a global error because it's saying I have no keyboard....
> With DirectInput 8 all is fine as usual. I'm not assuming anything, the error speaks
> for itself.
I'm saying, why do you need DirectInput 7? We're trying to figure out if it's worth supporting going forward, so we'd like a list of hardware in active use today that doesn't work with the default DirectInput 8.
If you don't have any, that's good to know too.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#350936 - 03/02/16 05:55 PM
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It's an old Logitech WingMan. With USB interface. I also have another one older (with the 15 PIN joystick interface) but this last one never worked on my PC with Seven. It was used to work fine with my previous machine with XP installed.
I don't think I'm the only man on earth that is using old hardware to play MAME games. I know you're aware that a lot of people with cabs and/or old PCs will be cut out if Direct Input 7 support will be dropped. I also recall some MAME Testers entries about this.
I posted here the bug because it was not related to my joypad. Now it's fixed. What else? I'll not make Moogly happy, sorry.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Posts: 9714
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Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Mamesick]
#350937 - 03/02/16 07:31 PM
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> I don't think I'm the only man on earth that is using old hardware to play MAME
> games. I know you're aware that a lot of people with cabs and/or old PCs will be cut
> out if Direct Input 7 support will be dropped.
Cabs built with quality modern components (e.g. Ultimarc interfaces) work fine with stock MAME. People need to stop thinking in terms of building cabs out of cheap Craigslist PCs and shitty old parallel port interfaces.
People with old PCs have been getting cut for a while now, it's just a matter of which specific change gets them to buy a real computer or stay at 0.170 until a virus wipes out all the remaining XP systems.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#350938 - 03/02/16 07:48 PM
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Well RB I still uses WinXP here with a Creative SB Live + Creative gameport and a MS Sidewinder Gamepad and it doesn´t really works without the DIRECT INPUT 7.
Yeah you are right my OS is about 14 years life time but I still do on my old XP machine.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#350941 - 03/02/16 08:09 PM
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> Cabs built with quality modern components (e.g. Ultimarc interfaces) work fine with
> stock MAME. People need to stop thinking in terms of building cabs out of cheap
> Craigslist PCs and shitty old parallel port interfaces.
>
> People with old PCs have been getting cut for a while now, it's just a matter of
> which specific change gets them to buy a real computer or stay at 0.170 until a virus
> wipes out all the remaining XP systems.
You should stop thinking, that everyone has the money to buy the newest, rotten apple shit, that you think is the holy grail. Talking like some insane apple sect evangelist.
Like MAME needs all that modern shit that you claim "is a must have" for everyone, but there are many people that are pretty happy with their "cheap old" nostalgia hardware and they are happy, just because of that fact alone, that it is nostalgia/retro hardware. MAME runs 90% fine of all the games, that are people interested in, who build such cabs with "crappy" hardware. They dont need display drivers for a 3D-printer or printers in general. Whats comming next, cash-registers?
How would a virus come into a XP-machine inside a cab? A cab dont need internet, so it should be safe and fine.
Do what you want, we cant stop that useless rampage, but IMHO all your arguments are pretty weak and there is no sense behind it, other than to fuckup people and to twit on them, because they dont spend that money, just to play some old games.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: uman]
#350943 - 03/02/16 08:15 PM
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> How would a virus come into a XP-machine inside a cab? A cab dont need internet, so
> it should be safe and fine.
>
In terms of original games, I'm told a lot of the Korean arcades ran unpatched XP machines connected to the internet for highscore sharing etc. needless to say, they didn't survive remote exploit attacks and ended up as zombie machines, probably lost forever.
I believe some of the MAME frontends support similar share scoring features based around hiscore.dat.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#350944 - 03/02/16 08:25 PM
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> > I don't think I'm the only man on earth that is using old hardware to play MAME
> > games. I know you're aware that a lot of people with cabs and/or old PCs will be
> cut
> > out if Direct Input 7 support will be dropped.
>
> Cabs built with quality modern components (e.g. Ultimarc interfaces) work fine with
> stock MAME. People need to stop thinking in terms of building cabs out of cheap
> Craigslist PCs and shitty old parallel port interfaces.
>
> People with old PCs have been getting cut for a while now, it's just a matter of
> which specific change gets them to buy a real computer or stay at 0.170 until a virus
> wipes out all the remaining XP systems.
Yes, I know perfectly that is more important now make MAME available on Google APP store to be used on Android smartphones than continue to support old hardware and the old users base. Sad to read these words from you. XP is still supported by the 90% of free software released today. Here in Italy some banks and the Postal Service still use it, they simply tried to make it safer from external attacks.
On a side note, XEXEX.CPP, MOO.CPP and MYSTWARR.CPP are still waiting the Konami God to be improved. Weren't you that God in the past? Oh yes, you were.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Haze]
#350945 - 03/02/16 08:40 PM
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> > How would a virus come into a XP-machine inside a cab? A cab dont need internet, so
> > it should be safe and fine.
> >
>
> In terms of original games, I'm told a lot of the Korean arcades ran unpatched XP
> machines connected to the internet for highscore sharing etc. needless to say, they
> didn't survive remote exploit attacks and ended up as zombie machines, probably lost
> forever.
>
> I believe some of the MAME frontends support similar share scoring features based
> around hiscore.dat.
Well, we can of course draw any apocalyptical scenario and before i believe that this will happen, i rather believe that a real virus will kill the whole world. Seriously who needs hi-score sharing via internet in a cab? it doesnt prove anything, i still could use cheats to get a hi-score. stupid people dont play, they spin that hypershit-wheel in their cabs, like some hypnosis-therapy.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Ashura-X]
#350946 - 03/02/16 09:04 PM
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> Well RB I still uses WinXP here with a Creative SB Live + Creative gameport and a MS
> Sidewinder Gamepad and it doesn´t really works without the DIRECT INPUT 7.
> Yeah you are right my OS is about 14 years life time but I still do on my old XP
> machine.
Well, hopefully your machine will break soon so you're forced to upgrade. Even the Jesus Christ of MAME kiddies himself, Robbbbbbert, managed to get a Windows 7 and a Win 8 machine for cheap, with any luck his doe-eyed sycophants can follow suit soon enough.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Mamesick]
#350947 - 03/02/16 09:09 PM
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> > > I don't think I'm the only man on earth that is using old hardware to play MAME
> > > games. I know you're aware that a lot of people with cabs and/or old PCs will be
> > cut
> > > out if Direct Input 7 support will be dropped.
> >
> > Cabs built with quality modern components (e.g. Ultimarc interfaces) work fine with
> > stock MAME. People need to stop thinking in terms of building cabs out of cheap
> > Craigslist PCs and shitty old parallel port interfaces.
> >
> > People with old PCs have been getting cut for a while now, it's just a matter of
> > which specific change gets them to buy a real computer or stay at 0.170 until a
> virus
> > wipes out all the remaining XP systems.
>
> Yes, I know perfectly that is more important now make MAME available on Google APP
> store to be used on Android smartphones than continue to support old hardware and the
> old users base. Sad to read these words from you. XP is still supported by the 90% of
> free software released today. Here in Italy some banks and the Postal Service still
> use it, they simply tried to make it safer from external attacks.
>
> On a side note, XEXEX.CPP, MOO.CPP and MYSTWARR.CPP are still waiting the Konami God
> to be improved. Weren't you that God in the past? Oh yes, you were.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: uman]
#350948 - 03/02/16 09:15 PM
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I once posted the specs of the machine I play Mame on, and was told it was way above spec for what most people have. That surprised me. Hardware isn't expensive these days, and there comes a point when you simply should upgrade. I mean, at least buy a new machine every ten years.
From what I can make out in this thread (which I should probably have stayed away from), there are people generally missing the point.
1) You never have to upgrade Mame. If you have a version that works for you, then keep on using it.
2) Mame exists to archive/preserve arcade games. It does not exist to archive/preserve old PC game controllers, Direct X versions, OS's, drivers for peripherals, etc. There is plenty of equipment that does work, so if you need something, go get it (or not, your choice).
3) Not all compatibility issues are controlled by developers. Some are dictated by tools and OS's. Ongoing Mame development must keep up with the times, or Mame itself becomes obsolete and broken - thereby becoming a victim of what it seeks to solve.
4) It's not clever to have old hardware.
5) Maintaining old code takes development cycles away from improvements. As far as I know, Mame developers are volunteers. While giving opinions is fine, I do find some of the rhetoric a tad aggressive.
6) Mame is free. If you choose to not use it because you're holding on to a controller that's 10+ years old then you're just hurting yourself. It's your choice. As a free bit of development is it really reasonable to expect the devs to maintain compatibility to early versions of Windows?
Just saying.
And IMO, of course.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Mamesick]
#350950 - 03/02/16 09:19 PM
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> > > I don't think I'm the only man on earth that is using old hardware to play MAME
> > > games. I know you're aware that a lot of people with cabs and/or old PCs will be
> > cut
> > > out if Direct Input 7 support will be dropped.
> >
> > Cabs built with quality modern components (e.g. Ultimarc interfaces) work fine with
> > stock MAME. People need to stop thinking in terms of building cabs out of cheap
> > Craigslist PCs and shitty old parallel port interfaces.
> >
> > People with old PCs have been getting cut for a while now, it's just a matter of
> > which specific change gets them to buy a real computer or stay at 0.170 until a
> virus
> > wipes out all the remaining XP systems.
>
> Yes, I know perfectly that is more important now make MAME available on Google APP
> store to be used on Android smartphones than continue to support old hardware and the
> old users base. Sad to read these words from you. XP is still supported by the 90% of
> free software released today. Here in Italy some banks and the Postal Service still
> use it, they simply tried to make it safer from external attacks.
>
> On a side note, XEXEX.CPP, MOO.CPP and MYSTWARR.CPP are still waiting the Konami God
> to be improved. Weren't you that God in the past? Oh yes, you were.
With all due respect. DO NOT USE THESE BANKS. If they are still using XP is shows they are clueless, out of touch, and don't understand much about technology. There is no reason on earth a bank should be using XP. None. Frankly the very idea is scary.
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Go, take your multiple gift. It's made in Italy. After licked them all, try to remove your head from your asshole and fuck off, you and your pathethic attitude.
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
Edited by Mamesick (03/02/16 09:21 PM)
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Vaughan]
#350952 - 03/02/16 09:29 PM
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> > > > I don't think I'm the only man on earth that is using old hardware to play MAME
> > > > games. I know you're aware that a lot of people with cabs and/or old PCs will
> be
> > > cut
> > > > out if Direct Input 7 support will be dropped.
> > >
> > > Cabs built with quality modern components (e.g. Ultimarc interfaces) work fine
> with
> > > stock MAME. People need to stop thinking in terms of building cabs out of cheap
> > > Craigslist PCs and shitty old parallel port interfaces.
> > >
> > > People with old PCs have been getting cut for a while now, it's just a matter of
> > > which specific change gets them to buy a real computer or stay at 0.170 until a
> > virus
> > > wipes out all the remaining XP systems.
> >
> > Yes, I know perfectly that is more important now make MAME available on Google APP
> > store to be used on Android smartphones than continue to support old hardware and
> the
> > old users base. Sad to read these words from you. XP is still supported by the 90%
> of
> > free software released today. Here in Italy some banks and the Postal Service still
> > use it, they simply tried to make it safer from external attacks.
> >
> > On a side note, XEXEX.CPP, MOO.CPP and MYSTWARR.CPP are still waiting the Konami
> God
> > to be improved. Weren't you that God in the past? Oh yes, you were.
>
>
> With all due respect. DO NOT USE THESE BANKS. If they are still using XP is shows
> they are clueless, out of touch, and don't understand much about technology. There is
> no reason on earth a bank should be using XP. None. Frankly the very idea is scary.
What you're saying is true, though I don't see too much difference in vulnerability. I download from Windows Update every week a bunch of security patches for Windows 7 now. Though we all know that nothing could stop a serious exploit done by "serious" people in the system. So.... I guess you already have the answer.
Edited by Mamesick (03/02/16 09:31 PM)
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#350953 - 03/02/16 09:38 PM
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Nahh my core 2 duo can handle Win7 64bits  The problem is lose my gamepad and that sound card 
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Mamesick]
#350954 - 03/02/16 09:53 PM
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> Go, take your multiple gift. It's made in Italy. After licked them all, try to remove
> your head from your asshole and fuck off, you and your pathethic attitude.
You mad, bro?
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Mamesick]
#350955 - 03/02/16 09:56 PM
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> What you're saying is true, though I don't see too much difference in vulnerability.
> I download from Windows Update every week a bunch of security patches for Windows 7
> now. Though we all know that nothing could stop a serious exploit done by "serious"
> people in the system. So.... I guess you already have the answer.
We're talking banks. Banks. We all know what can happen when banks get in trouble. There is no justification, imo, in a bank using XP. If people want to run it at home, fine. But a bank? Nah.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Ashura-X]
#350956 - 03/02/16 09:57 PM
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> Nahh my core 2 duo can handle Win7 64bits The problem is lose my gamepad and that
> sound card
I'd be genuinely surprised if there aren't SB Live drivers available for Win7 x64, the only problem would specifically be the game port.
Your best bet would be to track down a USB game pad that has the same general layout and tactile feel of your current controller. There are boatloads of USB controllers to choose from, and I would be honestly surprised if there are none that are as capable as your existing one.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Ashura-X]
#350957 - 03/02/16 10:03 PM
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There are some good joystick port-->USB adapters on eBay. They are quite cheap. A friend of mine bought one and was satisfied. His controller was recognized and Windows Update luckily found for it a generic driver which worked.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#350958 - 03/02/16 10:06 PM
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Yep I have one USB from MS and it´s the same layout but the diagonal motions are crapy! It´s difficult to do a hadouken or shoruyken from it and with my old sidewinder the motions are pretty smoth!
I cant understand it because all are MS and the old one is more difficult to do those moviments on game....
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Mamesick]
#350959 - 03/02/16 10:07 PM
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Vaughan]
#350960 - 03/02/16 10:11 PM
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> > What you're saying is true, though I don't see too much difference in
> vulnerability.
> > I download from Windows Update every week a bunch of security patches for Windows 7
> > now. Though we all know that nothing could stop a serious exploit done by "serious"
> > people in the system. So.... I guess you already have the answer.
>
> We're talking banks. Banks. We all know what can happen when banks get in trouble.
> There is no justification, imo, in a bank using XP. If people want to run it at home,
> fine. But a bank? Nah.
Sure, I agree. Though maybe they don't want to spend thousands of EURO in upgrading their systems when probably all is working fine for them. Bad choice, of course, but as you said... we're talking about banks: if they crack, people lose all their money without any refund and managers are free to re-start their "job" in another place. At least this happened recently here in Italy.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Ashura-X]
#350961 - 03/02/16 10:22 PM
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> Yep I have one USB from MS and it´s the same layout but the diagonal motions are
> crapy! It´s difficult to do a hadouken or shoruyken from it and with my old
> sidewinder the motions are pretty smoth!
> I cant understand it because all are MS and the old one is more difficult to do those
> moviments on game....
If it's a wired Xbox 360 gamepad, yeah, the digital pad is absolute garbage. However, Microsoft have started selling wireless dongles that let you connect Xbox One controllers to the PC, and the Xbox One controller has an actual cross-shaped digital pad rather than the awkward circular one that the Xbox 360 had.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Ashura-X]
#350962 - 03/02/16 10:25 PM
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#350963 - 03/02/16 10:27 PM
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> > Go, take your multiple gift. It's made in Italy. After licked them all, try to
> remove
> > your head from your asshole and fuck off, you and your pathethic attitude.
>
> You mad, bro?
Who knows, mate?
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Mamesick]
#350964 - 03/02/16 10:32 PM
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Vaughan]
#350965 - 03/02/16 11:06 PM
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At least i read a more educated post and i agree with some of your arguments (and even to some degree with the devs).
> Hardware isn't expensive these
> days, and there comes a point when you simply should upgrade. I mean, at least buy a
> new machine every ten years.
Yeah, i do that, but i dont see the point in throwing away (or sell) functional, good but old hardware. I did that in the past and i regret it. I wish i had my Atari 2600, C64, Amiga, Apple etc.
For some of those old hardware, people are spending a lot of money, just to have it back again.
> 1) You never have to upgrade Mame. If you have a version that works for you, then
> keep on using it.
Partially true, but there is just no need for all these "operational" steps lately (ok, maybe for some). So you basically "degrade" people, that want the improved emulation of MESS for example? Or force them to buy newer hardware, for unnecessary steps that are done previously.
> 2) Mame exists to archive/preserve arcade games. It does not exist to
> archive/preserve old PC game controllers, Direct X versions, OS's, drivers for
> peripherals, etc. There is plenty of equipment that does work, so if you need
> something, go get it (or not, your choice).
Wrong, because MAME is not only arcade anymore. Also you simply cant archive peripheral hardware, think of the mechanical games here and there is plenty of equipment that you cant simply replace with something new, cause it doesnt exist at all anymore or at a absurd high cost.
> 3) Not all compatibility issues are controlled by developers. Some are dictated by
> tools and OS's. Ongoing Mame development must keep up with the times, or Mame itself
> becomes obsolete and broken - thereby becoming a victim of what it seeks to solve.
Agree with this, but like i said before, some stuff is simply unnecessary and has nothing to do with keeping up to date.
> 4) It's not clever to have old hardware.
Well not clever, but i am smart  and i am sure there are many people that disagree with you here.
> 5) Maintaining old code takes development cycles away from improvements. As far as I
> know, Mame developers are volunteers. While giving opinions is fine, I do find some
> of the rhetoric a tad aggressive.
Normal wording in the MAME environment, i also wish it would be different. Maintaining old code is subjective, some code isnt touched for years (like previously HLSL for example), but is not a reason to kick it completely. If its avoidable by simple steps, why not keeping it?
> 6) Mame is free. If you choose to not use it because you're holding on to a
> controller that's 10+ years old then you're just hurting yourself. It's your choice.
> As a free bit of development is it really reasonable to expect the devs to maintain
> compatibility to early versions of Windows?
> Just saying.
> And IMO, of course.
I dont expect anything from the devs nor could/would force them to anything. Like they said, its their baby and they can do whatever they want with it. I just have another opinion to some decisions and this is a forum of free speech. Its also the arrogant attitude that makes the tune. Coding skills are great/godlike, but missing social skills on the other side or not just listen to other opinions is bad. To be social is necessary for a healthy, growing department and some people are clearly missing those skills.
I am sure they have their reasons for it (from abstruse stories in the past or whatever), but every human is different and i am sure they missed many opportunities in the past (and probably future), just because of unsocial behaviour.
To consider that informations and know-how, have to be substantiate with coding-skills, is just a bad habit that you will face everyday with the devs.
Or in other words, no coding skill = better not speak, even if the advice would be a "42" like. Only thing i hear is, how bad my english is and rubbish like that, but hey, Dullaron is some awesome native speaker.
I am a Serb and i give a fuck, especially from americans for obvious reasons .
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: uman]
#350966 - 03/02/16 11:23 PM
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Something like an Atari 2600 (I have two, including a heavy sixer) is different from an XP box, imo. I'd not expect a 2600 to play Mame games. It's old, and collectible, but it's also very much out of date. No-one is trying to make a 2600 run 32-bit code.
Besides - no-one is saying you have to throw anything away. You can keep it, frame it for the wall, or mount it in a display case. You just might not be able to use it in a new release of Mame. A Mame compatible controller is very cheap, after all.
I'm aware that Mame now includes MESS. A confession: I've never been able to get MESS to work. Seriously. I still use Stella, and another Atari 400/800 emulator. I have also downloaded .171 of Mame, but for gaming purposes use .160, since it does everything I need.
The trouble with old code is regression testing, I think. Even if the code is old and unchanged, doesn't mean it'll still work in a new build. Dev's can talk about this in more detail, but I don't believe it's true to suggest that just because a piece of code has not been changed, and was working in the last version, that it will necessarily work in the new.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Haze]
#350967 - 03/03/16 12:02 AM
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> In terms of original games, I'm told a lot of the Korean arcades ran unpatched XP
> machines connected to the internet for highscore sharing etc. needless to say, they
> didn't survive remote exploit attacks and ended up as zombie machines, probably lost
> forever.
>
> I believe some of the MAME frontends support similar share scoring features based
> around hiscore.dat.
Don't forget cabs running ClientServerMAME. (It does happen).
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Vaughan]
#350968 - 03/03/16 12:05 AM
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> I'm aware that Mame now includes MESS. A confession: I've never been able to get MESS
> to work. Seriously. I still use Stella
1) Go to Pleasuredome
2) Get the MAME 0.171 ROMs + MAME 0.171 Software List ROMs + MAME 0.171 Software List CHDs torrents
3) mame a2600 pacman
It's not hard
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#350969 - 03/03/16 12:06 AM
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> I'd be genuinely surprised if there aren't SB Live drivers available for Win7 x64,
> the only problem would specifically be the game port.
This is actually a known thing - Creative stopped supporting a ton of cards when Vista changed the driver model to prevent them from blue-screening the kernel.
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#350970 - 03/03/16 12:07 AM
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> Cabs built with quality modern components (e.g. Ultimarc interfaces) work fine with
> stock MAME. People need to stop thinking in terms of building cabs out of cheap
> Craigslist PCs and shitty old parallel port interfaces.
>
> People with old PCs have been getting cut for a while now, it's just a matter of
> which specific change gets them to buy a real computer or stay at 0.170 until a virus
> wipes out all the remaining XP systems.
^^^^^ this this and this ^^^^^^
Lets say a user like Big Karnak has got 15 years worth of MAME'ing out of his old obsolete hardware. If you save 1 Dollar a day for 15 years that's $5475 so you could almost buy 5 killer systems for MAME in that time.
If MAME doesn't keep modernizing and changing for the future it might as well Die which someone like me doesn't want to see happen.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Vaughan]
#350971 - 03/03/16 12:30 AM
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> Something like an Atari 2600 (I have two, including a heavy sixer) is different from
> an XP box, imo. I'd not expect a 2600 to play Mame games. It's old, and collectible,
> but it's also very much out of date. No-one is trying to make a 2600 run 32-bit code.
>
Never said that a Atari should run MAME, you just didnt get the point of what i have tried to say.
> You just might not be able to use it in
> a new release of Mame.
Its exactly that, that is stupid and unnecessary.
> A Mame compatible controller is very cheap, after all.
If "mame compatible" is your only problem, then you are not a serious gamer after all and again you didnt get the point.
> I'm aware that Mame now includes MESS. A confession: I've never been able to get MESS
> to work. Seriously. I still use Stella, and another Atari 400/800 emulator. I have
> also downloaded .171 of Mame, but for gaming purposes use .160, since it does
> everything I need.
And what you do and think, is the law or what? So you are upgrading once in a year, maybe more? Its your problem, if you cant operate with MESS, maybe other people are pretty good at it.
> The trouble with old code is regression testing, I think. Even if the code is old and
> unchanged, doesn't mean it'll still work in a new build. Dev's can talk about this in
> more detail, but I don't believe it's true to suggest that just because a piece of
> code has not been changed, and was working in the last version, that it will
> necessarily work in the new.
Everything just assumption. I dont believe that any regression testing was needed. The devs clearly did some steps, without thinking of consequences.
I can live with it and 017x will be probably final destination, for a xp-machine and to just end the discussion here (from my POV).
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#350972 - 03/03/16 12:36 AM
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> > I'm aware that Mame now includes MESS. A confession: I've never been able to get
> MESS
> > to work. Seriously. I still use Stella
>
> 1) Go to Pleasuredome
> 2) Get the MAME 0.171 ROMs + MAME 0.171 Software List ROMs + MAME 0.171 Software List
> CHDs torrents
> 3) mame a2600 pacman
>
> It's not hard
Even better. Retro(Cough...) If he not into Torrents. 
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W11 Home 64-bit + Nobara OS / AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT / AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core 3.59 GHz / RAM 64 GB
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: uman]
#350975 - 03/03/16 12:53 AM
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>
> Everything just assumption. I dont believe that any regression testing was needed.
> The devs clearly did some steps, without thinking of consequences.
>
> I can live with it and 017x will be probably final destination, for a xp-machine and
> to just end the discussion here (from my POV).
Tbf fair, you are also making assumptions. If someone made a change and it broke old code - then it's exactly the kind of thing regression testing would have highlighted. So my point is proven.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: uman]
#350976 - 03/03/16 12:58 AM
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> Never said that a Atari should run MAME, you just didnt get the point of what i have
> tried to say.
>
> > You just might not be able to use it in
> > a new release of Mame.
>
> Its exactly that, that is stupid and unnecessary.
>
> > A Mame compatible controller is very cheap, after all.
>
> If "mame compatible" is your only problem, then you are not a serious gamer after all
> and again you didnt get the point.
>
It's exactly the tone of your post that makes these threads break out into flame wars. You have your opinion, other people have theirs. Can't you just live with it without being condescending and small-minded?
I believe I well understood your points, and responded to them.
However, you using the term "serious gamer" probably says all that needs to be said by yourself. What are you, five? This is a Mame forum, and we're talking about Mame, so yeah, the only relevant thing to talk about is Mame compatibility. I don't believe Mame developers much care if you can use Mame controllers with an Xbox One, or a high-end PC - other than it tends to work because they share OS's.
Get off your high horse, this is a big boys forum.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Mamesick]
#350978 - 03/03/16 01:22 AM
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> On a side note, XEXEX.CPP, MOO.CPP and MYSTWARR.CPP are still waiting the Konami God
> to be improved. Weren't you that God in the past? Oh yes, you were.
aaaand, here's where you, Mamesick, has lost my last inch of respect
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: uman]
#350979 - 03/03/16 01:27 AM
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why are you so determined to hold the project back?
we can't continue to support old discontinued legacy OS stuff forever, if you have a problem with that you should be complaining to Microsoft, or the manufacturers of your hardware, not us.
We NEED to track what's current in order to ensure the project remains relevant and compatible with the systems that are being used to develop it, that means dropping legacy cruft.
If you don't like that it's NOT OUR PROBLEM.
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| Big Karnak |
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Part-time Lurker
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Haze]
#350981 - 03/03/16 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Lets say a user like Big Karnak has got 15 years worth of MAME'ing out of his old obsolete hardware.
My name was mentioned! B2K24 you have a good memory. 
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: hap]
#350985 - 03/03/16 07:09 AM
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> > On a side note, XEXEX.CPP, MOO.CPP and MYSTWARR.CPP are still waiting the Konami
> God
> > to be improved. Weren't you that God in the past? Oh yes, you were.
>
> aaaand, here's where you, Mamesick, has lost my last inch of respect
There's no problem at all, since I'm the "lame hacker" (Vas Crabb words) who is only able to make hacks in MAME drivers. I must admit that I was surprised when I received a mail from MAMEDevs where they asked me if I had something to object about the re-licensing of the project. Why I was contacted? Maybe for contributed 100+ (the exact quantity doesn't matter but it's close) bugfixes in these years? I never be credited in source code for this. So why I should expect respect from you Devs? Go ahead and don't care. You are the Gods.
Edited by Mamesick (03/03/16 07:11 AM)
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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Loc: Fort Worth, Tx
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#350986 - 03/03/16 07:13 AM
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> Cabs built with quality modern components (e.g. Ultimarc interfaces) work fine with
> stock MAME. People need to stop thinking in terms of building cabs out of cheap
> Craigslist PCs and shitty old parallel port interfaces.
>
> People with old PCs have been getting cut for a while now, it's just a matter of
> which specific change gets them to buy a real computer or stay at 0.170 until a virus
> wipes out all the remaining XP systems.
Don't forget the Raspberry Pi with very old MAME + Hacks and MAME4All + Hacks for the Android. Many others out there too with shitty hardware's. Like beating a dead horse trying to get 0.171 and later to work at full speed. lol
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W11 Home 64-bit + Nobara OS / AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT / AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core 3.59 GHz / RAM 64 GB
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Mamesick]
#350987 - 03/03/16 08:58 AM
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> > > On a side note, XEXEX.CPP, MOO.CPP and MYSTWARR.CPP are still waiting the Konami
> > God
> > > to be improved. Weren't you that God in the past? Oh yes, you were.
> >
> > aaaand, here's where you, Mamesick, has lost my last inch of respect
>
> There's no problem at all, since I'm the "lame hacker" (Vas Crabb words) who is only
> able to make hacks in MAME drivers. I must admit that I was surprised when I received
> a mail from MAMEDevs where they asked me if I had something to object about the
> re-licensing of the project. Why I was contacted? Maybe for contributed 100+ (the
> exact quantity doesn't matter but it's close) bugfixes in these years? I never be
> credited in source code for this. So why I should expect respect from you Devs? Go
> ahead and don't care. You are the Gods.
Wait a sec, I'm not talking on behalf of MAMEdev team there, it's a personal thing. I was in a bad mood and typed some shit after reading this 'nice' thread, but won't take it back =)
As for the relicensing, why do you ask this now? Of course we want to be as thorough as possible. However helpful your code submissions were, it is obvious they are too little to add you to the copyright holders of the files(is it what you mean with source code credits?).
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: hap]
#350988 - 03/03/16 09:16 AM
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> As for the relicensing, why do you ask this now? Of course we want to be as thorough
> as possible. However helpful your code submissions were, it is obvious they are too
> little to add you to the copyright holders of the files(is it what you mean with
> source code credits?).
I'm not a noob or a stupid. It's 15+ years I follow MAME development and I know (not personally, of course) all Team members since Nicola Salmoria was the leader of the project. Probably you're right, though I never asked anything nor in the past neither now. My opinion is different about source code credits, sorry, I see things in a different way. I don't think I'll change for this. It's my attitude.
Edited by Mamesick (03/03/16 09:19 AM)
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Mamesick]
#350989 - 03/03/16 11:03 AM
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> I'm not a noob or a stupid. It's 15+ years I follow MAME development and I know (not
> personally, of course) all Team members since Nicola Salmoria was the leader of the
> project. Probably you're right, though I never asked anything nor in the past neither
> now. My opinion is different about source code credits, sorry, I see things in a
> different way. I don't think I'll change for this. It's my attitude.
Credits and copyright are related but different beasts...
OG.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Ashura-X]
#350991 - 03/03/16 02:23 PM
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> Well RB I still uses WinXP here with a Creative SB Live + Creative gameport and a MS
> Sidewinder Gamepad and it doesn´t really works without the DIRECT INPUT 7.
> Yeah you are right my OS is about 14 years life time but I still do on my old XP
> machine.
I'm surprised that gamepad even works beyond Windows 98/ME. I got into emulation in 1999 with a Pentium 166 (overclocked to 200MHz) running 98SE and even that machine didn't use a gameport/parallel port controller (Boom USB PSX/N64 adapter). All of my PCs use USB gamepads, and I refuse to use a keyboard for playing arcade or console games. Somewhere out there, someone with a 486 and Windows 3.1/95 dual-boot is looking for an original working Microsoft Sidewinder gameport pad to go with their system.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#350995 - 03/03/16 03:57 PM
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I have one on spare here, tell me if he want it!
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Vaughan]
#351000 - 03/03/16 05:59 PM
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> So my point is proven.
you prove nothing, regarding direct input, direct x9 or even directdraw.
> It's exactly the tone of your post that makes these threads break out into flame
> wars. You have your opinion, other people have theirs. Can't you just live with it
> without being condescending and small-minded?
What threads do you mean? You are accusing me of always flaming here or what? Did i start the fire? Just at the time where i already said, that i can live with the changes, you are starting to poke again? Who is small minded here?
> I believe I well understood your points, and responded to them.
You did understand a shit and also have absolutely no clue.
> However, you using the term "serious gamer" probably says all that needs to be said
> by yourself. What are you, five? This is a Mame forum, and we're talking about Mame,
> so yeah, the only relevant thing to talk about is Mame compatibility. I don't believe
> Mame developers much care if you can use Mame controllers with an Xbox One, or a
> high-end PC - other than it tends to work because they share OS's.
Guess what, there are hardware that people started to like and love over the time and some of this hardware is simply not replaceable, even if you think money can buy the whole world.
> Get off your high horse, this is a big boys forum.
Who is on the high horse here? me for sure not. So you are a big boy here... LöL, stop behaving like a insane parrot, who echo MAME devs words. I at least have a own opinion, you are just asslicking.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Olivier Galibert]
#351001 - 03/03/16 06:02 PM
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> Credits and copyright are related but different beasts...
>
> OG.
I guess, he only wants to be mentioned at least in the "whats new" readme and that he knows the difference between these two things.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Haze]
#351003 - 03/03/16 06:20 PM
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> why are you so determined to hold the project back?
>
> we can't continue to support old discontinued legacy OS stuff forever, if you have a
> problem with that you should be complaining to Microsoft, or the manufacturers of
> your hardware, not us.
>
> We NEED to track what's current in order to ensure the project remains relevant and
> compatible with the systems that are being used to develop it, that means dropping
> legacy cruft.
>
> If you don't like that it's NOT OUR PROBLEM.
I dont want to hold anything back here. If its time to move on, then it is time... already said, that i can live with that.
Even i support those steps from time to time, like lately with the HLSL discussion and integrated graphic-cards, but to replace a whole machine is another story for me, especially if it looks unnecessary to me, at least right now.
I hope that you all never get into that poverty, where every cent counts. I appreciate all the latest efforts to co-operate with people who may can solve the problems we are confronted with. This makes me believe that in your inner core, you care about people that maybe dont have money to throw it out the window.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: uman]
#351004 - 03/03/16 06:25 PM
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> > Credits and copyright are related but different beasts...
> >
> > OG.
>
> I guess, he only wants to be mentioned at least in the "whats new" readme and that he
> knows the difference between these two things.
Here, a whatsnew entry just for him:
- All Drivers: Hacked to shit with woefully inaccurate kludges in order to get the game playable, because the only thing that matters is being able to play free games with all the other kiddie shitwits who don't give a fuck about inaccuracy [Mamesick]
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: uman]
#351005 - 03/03/16 06:55 PM
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> I hope that you all never get into that poverty, where every cent counts. I
> appreciate all the latest efforts to co-operate with people who may can solve the
> problems we are confronted with. This makes me believe that in your inner core, you
> care about people that maybe dont have money to throw it out the window.
In my inner core, I know that if you get "stranded" on a current version of MAME, you have access to an embarrassment of riches in terms of the sheer number of playable games (especially if you have the console ROMs and CHDs). I also know that playing video games is a luxury, not a necessity or a right. You'll live without whatever we add going forward until such time as you can afford to upgrade.
Also, it's not like we're being unreasonable. My main system was built going on 6 years ago for under US$700 and it's got no problems with the proposed and already happening MAME modernizations.
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: uman]
#351006 - 03/03/16 06:56 PM
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> > So my point is proven.
>
> you prove nothing, regarding direct input, direct x9 or even directdraw.
>
> > It's exactly the tone of your post that makes these threads break out into flame
> > wars. You have your opinion, other people have theirs. Can't you just live with it
> > without being condescending and small-minded?
>
> What threads do you mean? You are accusing me of always flaming here or what? Did i
> start the fire? Just at the time where i already said, that i can live with the
> changes, you are starting to poke again? Who is small minded here?
>
> > I believe I well understood your points, and responded to them.
>
> You did understand a shit and also have absolutely no clue.
>
> > However, you using the term "serious gamer" probably says all that needs to be said
> > by yourself. What are you, five? This is a Mame forum, and we're talking about
> Mame,
> > so yeah, the only relevant thing to talk about is Mame compatibility. I don't
> believe
> > Mame developers much care if you can use Mame controllers with an Xbox One, or a
> > high-end PC - other than it tends to work because they share OS's.
>
> Guess what, there are hardware that people started to like and love over the time and
> some of this hardware is simply not replaceable, even if you think money can buy the
> whole world.
>
> > Get off your high horse, this is a big boys forum.
>
> Who is on the high horse here? me for sure not. So you are a big boy here... LöL,
> stop behaving like a insane parrot, who echo MAME devs words. I at least have a own
> opinion, you are just asslicking.
Wait - you think I'm going to spend my time on Mameworld bickering with you? Playing games of semantics is quite childish. I don't know what your problem is, and frankly I don't want to know. Mame is a world of FUN, and I choose to keep it that way. If you want to bring angst to the party, then go at it - but it's no concern of mine.
Besides, I'm not a "serious gamer", so why do you care? 
ps: I'm not "asslicking" anyone. I'm GRATEFUL to Mame devs, that's all. Their stated goals and aims are as I described - so it's simply a fact. Frankly, if playing games does this to people like you, then I can see why they have to carry warning stickers. If that's what being a "serious gamer" is all about, then long may I not be one of them.
Anyway, I've got to go now, I'm trying to get Mame to work on an old cereal box. I can get the sound, but no picture.....
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Tafoid |
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I keep on testing.. testing.. testing... into the future!
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Re: No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
[Re: Mamesick]
#351009 - 03/03/16 08:48 PM
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> Compiling current MAME GIT with this option enabled in the makefile produces this
> result at startup (attached picture). The internal UI is not loaded and launching a
> game directly from command-line is the same.
> No more support for DirectInput 7 so?
Since the was answered and corrected days ago in current GIT and the discussion has been pretty much little more than antagonizing each other, it is time to lock this thing.
Closing.
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No more support for DIRECTINPUT 7?
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[Re: 
The problem is lose my gamepad and that sound card 
and i am sure there are many people that disagree with you here.
