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2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
#384554 - 12/07/19 10:42 PM
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So what do you guys hope for Mame/Mess-wise in 2020? As for me, I'd say:
1) More MCU Decaps
2) Addressing the Remaining Issues for the Konami M2 Shmup That Shall Not Be Named
3) More work on Laserdiscs
4) Dumping of Taito's "Vertexer" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-lVyYtkgRY)
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384555 - 12/07/19 11:40 PM
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> So what do you guys hope for Mame/Mess-wise in 2020? As for me, I'd say:
>
> 1) More MCU Decaps
There's a near-infinite list of possible MCU decaps/dumps to be hoped for, including some whose types haven't been dumped ever or in a very long time (a good number of LCD handheld games fall into this). One category that stands out due to recent work by Haze are the PICs used as sound MCUs in various Korean games and bootlegs (particularly of CPS1 games). On the MESS side, I helped determine that a lot of presently unemulated VTech laptops are based on M68HC05 globs that might be trojan-dumpable from the cartridge slot. The long-stalled project to dump the Casio Loopy's CPU-internal ROM also comes to mind.
Probably my most important MCU-related plan is a state-level reimplementation of the MCS-51 (8051/8052) CPU core and standard peripherals. One of the smaller breakthroughs that will enable is getting sound communications working again on the MicroProse 3D games.
I'm also hoping that Angelo Salese will make enough progress on emulating the Seibu COP to make (non-bootleg) Seibu Cup Soccer at least semi-playable.
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Mr. Do |
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MAME Art Editor
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384556 - 12/08/19 01:47 AM
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> So what do you guys hope for MAME/MESS-wise in 2020? As for me, I'd say:
-- To see the remaining G&W games emulated, so that we have the complete set in MAME
-- Hoping Sean or someone else can figure out how to dump the Catch a Coke I sent in this year, just so we can play with a Coke machine in MAME.
-- Artwork system overhaul complete, so that I can get started on converting all of the existing artwork to the new system.
-- Continued work on the Domesday project, with the eventual emulation of Star Rider (if not 2020, then whenever it happens).
-- Continued improvement on the home console systems... much prefer to use MAME vs a standalone emulator, when possible.
-- Continued progress on arcade games in general
-- Continued discrete game progress (it's always fun to see new games from this era added, as I know it's a helluva lot of work to get there)
In general... I'm just happy to see it still plugging along after what will be 23 years in February. Just checked... and five days ago, it's been twenty years since I first registered at MAME.net. Been a fun ride.
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RELAX and just have fun. Remember, it's all about the games.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Mr. Do]
#384557 - 12/08/19 02:00 AM
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Well....everything I’ve asked for over the last few years has been accomplished.
Only 2 things remain:
Background finally corrected in Title Fight. This has been broke for years, and I played this a lot in my local arcade as a kid.
And finally what I’ve been waiting for years is Cruisin’ Exotica’s graphics corrected.
After that I can’t think of anything else.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384561 - 12/08/19 04:33 AM
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I was hoping people wouldn't start these stupid threads where they wish for stuff they have no intention of contributing to.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#384562 - 12/08/19 06:47 AM
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I get where you're coming from. I'm grateful for all the hard work that's been done. It's amazing how far MAME has progressed through the years. My biggest wish came through just recently. The graphical bugs in the SFIII games were finally fixed  Sure I have other games I want to be fixed, but I wouldn't make a wish list. Just grateful for all the accomplishments & I'm eternally grateful to everyone that contributed. Weather they were major contributions, or minor ones
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384566 - 12/08/19 02:33 PM
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As others have said, for me it would be the Laserdisc stuff.
MAME has done nothing visible of note in the field for a long time (even if lots of progress has been made outside of MAME) and meanwhile the industry continues to wash away memories of how the original versions of these games were by pushing out newer, updated, higher resolution versions of them year after year.
The originals, at this point, are vintage material, vastly different from what you see today, and need to be properly represented somewhere.
Not to mention the number of other systems that used Laserdiscs, such as the LaserActive, where I believe there was even code stored on them to tie the games together.
I'd like to see the same for VHS tapes, there were a number of VHS based systems, be they arcade Mahjong titles, or 'gun games' for TV that are simply degrading without a solution.
On a personal note, I hope Sean's work schedule eases up a little as his contributions are vital, but if it doesn't it doesn't, he's got to make a living for himself at the end of the day. When it does however he has many interesting curiosities we've been stockpiling over the year.
As for my work, I'd like to help get on top of the bigger picture for a lot of these hated TV games, obscure knock-off handhelds and such, there's a wealth of stuff that's simply been forgotten, never documented, or exists in ancient YouTube videos only. I've got Team Europe and Peter and ClawGrip to help with this, amongst others, but truth be told we could *really* do with a decent boost of funds in order to pick things up - a lot of recent progress has come out of our own pockets and that isn't sustainable. I feel bad for asking tho, because we know they're all kinda rubbish.
Would be nice to fill in some gaps in the eKara and Popira libraries too, but that requires working with ShouTime and also requires Sean to have time, plus we usually have to by those in bulk, which means we get a lot of duplicates and high shipping costs.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384567 - 12/08/19 04:57 PM
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HERE WE GO.....AGAIN!! LOL 
Well, some things of my previous list are now in MAME, fortunately! Including the original (earlier) version of Karate Champ and all Game & Watch titles! What an amazing year for emulation!!
And here is my updated list for 2020: 
- Primal Rage emulation improvements to make it fully playable without any issues.
- Pit-Fighter emulation improvements to get rid of the Ty's random graphics glitch that occurs during his intro (which does not happen at all when using the real PCB) and to fix the large vertical gaps in some of the backgrounds, most notable in the bar (matches 3 and 4) and also on the ship docked at the pier (grudge matches). Some vertical gaps do appear on the real PCB as well, but they are more rare (barely noticeable) and way thinner than what is found in MAME.
- Guardians Of The Hood GAL dumps to make the romset complete and the inclusion of these GALs into MAME to improve the emulation.
- Discrete emulation improvements to support games that uses multiple PCBs, such as Taito's Bazooka/Cross Fire and a full dump of this particular game (Gregf would certainly like this improvent as well, I'm sure). 
- New Rally-X inclusion of the "BANG" sound through discrete emulation, so we can get rid of the recorded wav sound sample.
- A dump of the m50747 chip to make St. Dragon fully playable without any 'possible' weird issues caused by this missing chip.
- Fully working PS2 / PSP drivers in MAME, so I could get rid of PPSSPP and PCSX2 external emulators.
- And finally, a dump of the Danger Express romset and inclusion of this prototype in MAME, with the permission of the pcb owner of course 
Edited by R.Coltrane (12/24/19 05:17 PM)
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Haze]
#384568 - 12/08/19 05:56 PM
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> I'd like to see the same for VHS tapes, there were a number of VHS based systems, be
> they arcade Mahjong titles, or 'gun games' for TV that are simply degrading without a
> solution.
Not so. Part of the reason why development of the Domesday Duplicator software has dragged on for so long is that Simon has been sidetracked making an updated version of the Duplicator hardware. Specifically, it's a more modular version, which can have multiple ADCs plugged in specifically to handle the case of multiple recording heads, as you would see in a VHS deck.
In fact, at least one person (oln) is working leveraging the existing DdD hardware and ld-decode software toolset to do VHS decoding. While it's not quite yet at the quality level that ld-decode can output, it's getting there. I would really encourage you to get back on the IRC horse and pop by #domesday86 on the Freenode IRC network. I don't really do much but idle in there, but it's fascinating to see the gradual forward progress on ld-decode rev6.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Haze]
#384570 - 12/08/19 07:16 PM
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> As others have said, for me it would be the Laserdisc stuff.
>
> MAME has done nothing visible of note in the field for a long time (even if lots of
> progress has been made outside of MAME) and meanwhile the industry continues to wash
> away memories of how the original versions of these games were by pushing out newer,
> updated, higher resolution versions of them year after year.
>
> The originals, at this point, are vintage material, vastly different from what you
> see today, and need to be properly represented somewhere.
>
> Not to mention the number of other systems that used Laserdiscs, such as the
> LaserActive, where I believe there was even code stored on them to tie the games
> together.
>
> I'd like to see the same for VHS tapes, there were a number of VHS based systems, be
> they arcade Mahjong titles, or 'gun games' for TV that are simply degrading without a
> solution.
#me too. I hope that the dump of Laserdiscs keep the interlaced material intact. I wish true interlace output would be possible with MAME and a shader that does deinterlacing for all LCD owners. With all the effort to have 100% accurate emulation, at this point MAME has its issues and hopefully they are solveable.
I would like to thank Calamity for further implementing more features of GroovyMAME into official MAME. Less lag more fun and it is a global change, where every game benfits of.
As GroovyMAME has interlaced output, but sadly as a post processing, there is hope that this function can work on driver level in official MAME. Just do more co-op´s like these, it is possible  .
I would like to see all vector options from MAME 0.178 and of HLSL converted to BGFX. At this point i am thankfully for all the BGFX bug fixes lately done by Moogly. It is nice to see that in most of the cases, the lag is now equal to all other shading systems. Again a global change, where every game that use BGFX shaders benfits of.
Edited by uman (12/08/19 09:05 PM)
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: AJR Hacker]
#384571 - 12/08/19 08:20 PM
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> > So what do you guys hope for Mame/Mess-wise in 2020? As for me, I'd say:
> >
> > 1) More MCU Decaps
>
> There's a near-infinite list of possible MCU decaps/dumps to be hoped for, including
> some whose types haven't been dumped ever or in a very long time (a good number of
> LCD handheld games fall into this). One category that stands out due to recent work
> by Haze are the PICs used as sound MCUs in various Korean games and bootlegs
> (particularly of CPS1 games). On the MESS side, I helped determine that a lot of
> presently unemulated VTech laptops are based on M68HC05 globs that might be
> trojan-dumpable from the cartridge slot. The long-stalled project to dump the Casio
> Loopy's CPU-internal ROM also comes to mind.
>
> Probably my most important MCU-related plan is a state-level reimplementation of the
> MCS-51 (8051/8052) CPU core and standard peripherals. One of the smaller
> breakthroughs that will enable is getting sound communications working again on the
> MicroProse 3D games.
>
> I'm also hoping that Angelo Salese will make enough progress on emulating the Seibu
> COP to make (non-bootleg) Seibu Cup Soccer at least semi-playable.
I'm hoping for a decap on that Namco C139 because the contents on that chip aren't known (unless someone can confirm). I think it's an MCU because of how responsive that controller is (tested it with Cyber Cycles, Time Crisis 2 and Motocross Go). Would be nice to see a non Sega game with networking emulated.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384572 - 12/08/19 08:38 PM
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- C139/C422 SCI controller working (for most linked Namco games).
- Final Lap/Suzuka 8 hours games sound/graphics issues fixed (also applies to Four Trax)
- Namco System 21 fixes.
- Figure out why Alpine Surfer is unplayable in Mame. I personally think it's unemulated video or dsp functions since I can confirm it doesn't run on slightly different hardware.
- Namco System 23 fixes.
- Konami PPC 403GA family hardware (zr107, gticlub, nwk-tr and hornet) major fixes. I'm kind of in the process of acquiring a Thunder Hurricane pcb set to hopefully do a schematic of its I/O board. Also linked machines
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- Racin' Force (Konami GX 1) playable. I can confirm it uses a K056230 for networking from looking at a pcb.
- Polygonet hardware fixes. That game also uses a K056230.
- Midway Zeus fixes. Also figure out the network controller. Is it some sort of SCI/shared ram controller like with the Sega and Namco games?
- Taito JC timing issue fixed. I would mention its TMS320C51's internal rom but those are hard to find (and idk if that rom is specific to Taito JC). Network function as well (I need to add a dummy SMC COM20020 device).
- Not to mention that device is used in Chase Bombers and Ground Effects. Gunbuster on the other hand is more of a direct link like the dual stack System 32 games.
I honestly got way too much to list to the point I'll stop here. Some may not get done in 2020 (obviously).
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384573 - 12/08/19 10:09 PM
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Top 10 in order of "cool factor", borrowing from previous years:
1) Support for cross-platform (SDL2) rumble effects for systems like the PSX (dualshock), N64 and PokeMini vs. the basic output handler support that currently exists
2) Model 2 accuracy improvements
3) Macintosh Plus/512 speed fixes to resolve this issue
4) More accurate Cave CV1000B timing
5) BGFX vector bloom
6) Framework for future improvements to BGFX presets (examples include optional auto-assignment of "arcade crt" to arcade systems, "green screen crt" to apple //c and "green screen lcd" to original gameboy)
7) Votrax/SC-01 improvements
8 ) Vectrex artwork improvements
9) More collaboration with standalone emu authors of license-compatible projects to improve MAME drivers for high-profile systems
10) Improvements to high-profile console drivers such as nes (more accurate ppu), pce-cd, atari 5200 and n64 (speed optimizations)
As with previous year wish lists, most of these aren't entirely practical and I'm certainly not expecting anything here anyway, though it's fun to imagine.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Shoegazr]
#384574 - 12/08/19 10:22 PM
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> 3) Macintosh Plus/512 speed fixes to resolve this issue
A lot of MAME's problems with Mac emulation can be traced back to the flawed VIA shift register. Vas has a rewrite planned but I don't think I've heard of any progress on that front lately. Olivier Galibert also did a WIP modernization of the IWM floppy controller which has been pushed to a Git branch.
> 7) Votrax/SC-01 improvements
The new emulation really stands out as one of the most unfortunate MAME regressions. The fatal flaw seems to have been ignorance of the bizarre and idiosyncratic method by which the SC-01 is clocked.
> 10) Improvements to high-profile console drivers such as nes (more accurate ppu),
> pce-cd, atari 5200 and n64 (speed optimizations)
The Sega Genesis VDP emulation has often been noted as being in need of a good full rewrite. The MT bugs just keep piling up.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Hydreigon]
#384575 - 12/08/19 10:29 PM
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> I'm hoping for a decap on that Namco C139 because the contents on that chip aren't
> known (unless someone can confirm). I think it's an MCU because of how responsive
> that controller is (tested it with Cyber Cycles, Time Crisis 2 and Motocross Go).
> Would be nice to see a non Sega game with networking emulated.
The Final Lap schematics suggest C139 is a full-fledged ASIC or else some really offbeat DSP (host data is 13 bits wide). The signal names used there suggest that it's implementing something approximating a token ring protocol. The chip has Fujitsu markings, which is not a good sign.
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| Mr. Do |
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MAME Art Editor
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Shoegazr]
#384576 - 12/08/19 10:30 PM
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> 8 ) Vectrex artwork improvements
>
Waiting on a certain someone to send me the final pic I need (hi-res pic of the system itself), and this will be done.
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RELAX and just have fun. Remember, it's all about the games.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: AJR Hacker]
#384577 - 12/08/19 10:50 PM
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> > I'm hoping for a decap on that Namco C139 because the contents on that chip aren't
> > known (unless someone can confirm). I think it's an MCU because of how responsive
> > that controller is (tested it with Cyber Cycles, Time Crisis 2 and Motocross Go).
> > Would be nice to see a non Sega game with networking emulated.
>
> The Final Lap schematics suggest C139 is a full-fledged ASIC or else some really
> offbeat DSP (host data is 13 bits wide). The signal names used there suggest that
> it's implementing something approximating a token ring protocol. The chip has Fujitsu
> markings, which is not a good sign.
I'm pretty sure it's used for player board comms on Galaxian 3 too btw, which has *9* of them on one of the PCBs.
If we do start to see progress with the Laserdisc stuff that's definitely going to be an issue (although it's not even 100% sure due to the hardware, even without 2 laserdiscs running in sync and having to be decoded at the same time)
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#384578 - 12/08/19 11:47 PM
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How far off are we from having finalized hardware to the point where the raw Laserdisc captures can be made and won't need to be made again in the future? (and then any further work handled in software only)
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Haze]
#384579 - 12/09/19 12:15 AM
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> > The Final Lap schematics suggest C139 is a full-fledged ASIC or else some really
> > offbeat DSP (host data is 13 bits wide). The signal names used there suggest that
> > it's implementing something approximating a token ring protocol. The chip has
> Fujitsu
> > markings, which is not a good sign.
>
> I'm pretty sure it's used for player board comms on Galaxian 3 too btw, which has *9*
> of them on one of the PCBs.
>
> If we do start to see progress with the Laserdisc stuff that's definitely going to be
> an issue (although it's not even 100% sure due to the hardware, even without 2
> laserdiscs running in sync and having to be decoded at the same time)
Nine C139 controllers? I can't imagine how that is going to work. I honestly didn't request Galaxian 3 hardware progress because how large of a setup that is.
Someone should explain how Fujitsu chips are a bad sign in Mame? This looks like to me these chips are very well designed. It's no surprise Sega used these chips on their comm boards before Sega Model 3. There is also the GMEN pcb that uses a Fujitsu firewire controller for cabinet linking as opposed to the C139.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Hydreigon]
#384580 - 12/09/19 12:58 AM
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> > > The Final Lap schematics suggest C139 is a full-fledged ASIC or else some really
> > > offbeat DSP (host data is 13 bits wide). The signal names used there suggest that
> > > it's implementing something approximating a token ring protocol. The chip has
> > Fujitsu
> > > markings, which is not a good sign.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure it's used for player board comms on Galaxian 3 too btw, which has
> *9*
> > of them on one of the PCBs.
> >
> > If we do start to see progress with the Laserdisc stuff that's definitely going to
> be
> > an issue (although it's not even 100% sure due to the hardware, even without 2
> > laserdiscs running in sync and having to be decoded at the same time)
>
> Nine C139 controllers? I can't imagine how that is going to work. I honestly didn't
> request Galaxian 3 hardware progress because how large of a setup that is.
>
http://www.dragonslairfans.com/G3/emulator/rso2.jpg count them (and the 6 DUART chips..)
there's another on each sound board too
http://www.dragonslairfans.com/G3/emulator/sound4.JPG
and the master CPU board
http://www.dragonslairfans.com/G3/emulator/mastercpu2.jpg
and the slave CPU board
http://www.dragonslairfans.com/G3/emulator/slaveCPU2.JPG
(and I'd guess the 'Personal' boards, but I don't have pictures handy so I'm not sure, those might be via the DUART instead)
> Someone should explain how Fujitsu chips are a bad sign in Mame? This looks like to
> me these chips are very well designed. It's no surprise Sega used these chips on
> their comm boards before Sega Model 3. There is also the GMEN pcb that uses a Fujitsu
> firewire controller for cabinet linking as opposed to the C139.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#384581 - 12/09/19 01:18 AM
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> I was hoping people wouldn't start these stupid threads where they wish for stuff
> they have no intention of contributing to.
Something to tell the kids this christmas all joking aside it would be nice to see Konami's Overdrive
fully emulated one day.
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Arcade Addict
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Mr. Do]
#384582 - 12/09/19 01:23 AM
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> > 8 ) Vectrex artwork improvements
> >
>
> Waiting on a certain someone to send me the final pic I need (hi-res pic of the
> system itself), and this will be done.
Wow, COOL! Looking forward to that for sure.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: AJR Hacker]
#384583 - 12/09/19 01:34 AM
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> > 3) Macintosh Plus/512 speed fixes to resolve this issue
>
> A lot of MAME's problems with Mac emulation can be traced back to the flawed VIA
> shift register. Vas has a rewrite planned but I don't think I've heard of any
> progress on that front lately. Olivier Galibert also did a WIP modernization of the
> IWM floppy controller which has been pushed to a Git branch.
>
> > 7) Votrax/SC-01 improvements
>
> The new emulation really stands out as one of the most unfortunate MAME regressions.
> The fatal flaw seems to have been ignorance of the bizarre and idiosyncratic method
> by which the SC-01 is clocked.
>
> > 10) Improvements to high-profile console drivers such as nes (more accurate ppu),
> > pce-cd, atari 5200 and n64 (speed optimizations)
>
> The Sega Genesis VDP emulation has often been noted as being in need of a good full
> rewrite. The MT bugs just keep piling up.
Thanks for the update, AJR. No doubt a lot of work and time is needed to resolve those and others on the list. I'd be surprised if any of them get addressed in the coming year at all (except maybe the vectrex artwork update) but still, nice to dream.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Haze]
#384587 - 12/09/19 03:59 AM
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I think it's likely the C139/C422 is actually a Fujitsu MB89372, A or B. Both chips look identical and have the same number of pins on each side, 13 by 19 pins. Sega used this in their X and Y link boards and Sailorsat got Power Drift Link Version's comms working. Idk an approach for emulation on this device because I can't find any form of data or manual.
Here's a link to an MB89372: https://www.ebay.com/itm/332486852559
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: jonwil]
#384589 - 12/09/19 07:24 AM
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> How far off are we from having finalized hardware to the point where the raw
> Laserdisc captures can be made and won't need to be made again in the future? (and
> then any further work handled in software only)
I'm reasonably sure even the DdD hardware version 2 was at that point, and version 3 simply expands capabilities and makes it a bit friendlier.
Even so, with utilities like ld-combine on the software side of things, it will be important to obtain not just a capture or two of one disc, but ideally, as many captures as possible of multiples of the same disc.
For those not in the know, ld-combine will take multiple captures of the same make and model of disc, and determine on a per-line basis which of the captures is higher-quality, to assemble a capture which is in better shape than either of the two (or three, or four, etc.) source captures.
The principle is that dropouts usually don't happen in exactly the same place on every disc, and so a bad line in one capture may not necessarily be a bad line in another.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Hydreigon]
#384590 - 12/09/19 07:25 AM
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> Idk an approach for emulation on this device because I can't find any
> form of data or manual.
That's why Fujitsu chips are terrible.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Hydreigon]
#384591 - 12/09/19 08:52 AM
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> Someone should explain how Fujitsu chips are a bad sign in Mame? This looks like to
> me these chips are very well designed. It's no surprise Sega used these chips on
> their comm boards before Sega Model 3.
The problem with Fujitsu is that documentation tends to be quite difficult to find regarding their more obscure ICs, and they made a lot of semi-custom products for various arcade manufacturers (which go all the way back to the MB14241 barrel shifter on the black-and-white Midway/Taito games) for which little to no official documentation has ever been published. It's part of the reason why Sega Model 1/2 emulation has been such a difficult struggle.
(PCB maintainers also curse the failure rate of Fujitsu TTL chips, but that's a different subject entirely.)
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384592 - 12/09/19 12:18 PM
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My wishes
- A rewrite or improvement for the taito f3 driver
- More progress on Arcade 3D games (hng64, konami m2, namco 23, cruis'n exotica....)
A big thank you to the development team for another awesome year with MAME
Edited by MetalGod (12/09/19 12:29 PM)
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384593 - 12/09/19 05:28 PM
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I'd love to see the Spectrum and Amstrad softlists with every known dump sorted out... But that's a lot of work. Haze did a great job on the Spectrum side, but there's still a lot to do.
Also, of course, the LaserDiscs... Along with a firmware-level emulation of the players itself.
And finally... To start supporting screenless kiddie-rides (just for preservation sake). I'm after a Falgas-Gaelco one that hopefully will be dumped soon.
> So what do you guys hope for Mame/Mess-wise in 2020? As for me, I'd say:
>
> 1) More MCU Decaps
> 2) Addressing the Remaining Issues for the Konami M2 Shmup That Shall Not Be Named
> 3) More work on Laserdiscs
> 4) Dumping of Taito's "Vertexer" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-lVyYtkgRY)
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: ClawGrip]
#384594 - 12/09/19 05:44 PM
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> I'd love to see the Spectrum and Amstrad softlists with every known dump sorted
> out... But that's a lot of work. Haze did a great job on the Spectrum side, but
> there's still a lot to do.
>
Yeah there are still plenty of obvious cases where even the parent/clone stuff isn't sorted out yet, but I was getting burnt out doing it so needed a break; it's an insane task that really needs more than one person doing it.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#384595 - 12/09/19 05:51 PM
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> > How far off are we from having finalized hardware to the point where the raw
> > Laserdisc captures can be made and won't need to be made again in the future? (and
> > then any further work handled in software only)
>
> I'm reasonably sure even the DdD hardware version 2 was at that point, and version 3
> simply expands capabilities and makes it a bit friendlier.
>
> Even so, with utilities like ld-combine on the software side of things, it will be
> important to obtain not just a capture or two of one disc, but ideally, as many
> captures as possible of multiples of the same disc.
>
> For those not in the know, ld-combine will take multiple captures of the same make
> and model of disc, and determine on a per-line basis which of the captures is
> higher-quality, to assemble a capture which is in better shape than either of the two
> (or three, or four, etc.) source captures.
>
> The principle is that dropouts usually don't happen in exactly the same place on
> every disc, and so a bad line in one capture may not necessarily be a bad line in
> another.
That is a nice and good feature, as long as you have multiple masters/copies. So basically every source capture is kept for future improvement in dropout-removing?
I wonder how well some post-production effects would work, especially because most dropouts are kind of "white noise" and that is something, where those plugins really work well. I mean digital restauration of old movies i.e. is not a new thing.
I really would like to test some "bad" material.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: AJR Hacker]
#384597 - 12/09/19 08:32 PM
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> The problem with Fujitsu is that documentation tends to be quite difficult to find
> regarding their more obscure ICs, and they made a lot of semi-custom products for
> various arcade manufacturers (which go all the way back to the MB14241 barrel shifter
> on the black-and-white Midway/Taito games) for which little to no official
> documentation has ever been published. It's part of the reason why Sega Model 1/2
> emulation has been such a difficult struggle.
>
> (PCB maintainers also curse the failure rate of Fujitsu TTL chips, but that's a
> different subject entirely.)
Tell me about it. I already explained the MB89372 multi protocol controller has no official documentation (and Namco using this chip for their C139).
Edit: With great design comes lack of documentation. It was a bold move of Fujitsu to not include documentation on some of their products. Despite this, I still think this isn't as bad as Midway V Unit (and possibly Zeus) linking hardware.
Edited by Hydreigon (12/09/19 09:15 PM)
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| Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Reged: 03/07/04
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Posts: 6472
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Send PM
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Hydreigon]
#384598 - 12/09/19 10:47 PM
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Stiletto]
#384599 - 12/09/19 11:27 PM
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> > Tell me about it. I already explained the MB89372 multi protocol controller has no
> > official documentation (and Namco using this chip for their C139).
>
> Just a datasheet.
> https://datasheet.datasheetarchive.com/originals/scans/Scans-059/DSA2IH0049939.pdf
Unsurprisingly, the pinout shown in that datasheet does not at all agree with that of the C139. IC packages are rarely that distinctive, being usually shared by a wide variety of similar and dissimilar devices from the same manufacturer.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: uman]
#384600 - 12/09/19 11:33 PM
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> I wonder how well some post-production effects would work, especially because most
> dropouts are kind of "white noise" and that is something, where those plugins really
> work well.
Yeah, no, you don't understand how Laserdiscs work at an RF level at all. A dropout is easily determined by a total loss of carrier tracking as well as a massive SNR spike above or below anything that could remotely be encoded in a normal signal.
Dropouts aren't even remotely "white noise", and cannot even remotely be confused with a mastering or post-production technique when analyzing the underlying RF signal.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#384607 - 12/10/19 03:00 PM
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I dont need to understand how Laserdiscs work at an RF level and to say at all, is a little bit bitchy, dont you think?
As i wrote before, the method is nice, if you have multiple copies of a LD. If you have only one, then you can either try to capture that disc multiple times and/or with other hardware-players, in the hope to get rid of the dropouts or you will need (post) effects to remove dropouts.
I dont know how a finished dump will look like, but i assume that the video-content can be viewed/altered/processed, without destroying something. Otherwise you only would be able to capture something and would not be able to replace frames, create entirely new content etc. and AFAIK this should be possible with a LD dump or at least with Domesday´s ld-decode. I apologize if i am wrong here.
Post-production effects should only be applied if nothing else does it better and after all work is done. On a finished dump so to say and i dont see why they should not work.
If the software-player (for the LD dumps) is intelligent enough, you could have a extra track, just for the postprocessed frames and that just for the case, you get another LD of your original LD to further improve the dump on the dropouts. That is what i think, would be a good method, because it is non-destructive and improves the content quality by removing dropouts, even on a single source.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: uman]
#384608 - 12/10/19 04:38 PM
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> I dont need to understand how Laserdiscs work at an RF level and to say at all, is a
> little bit bitchy, dont you think?
Actually, I just re-read your post. When I originally read it last night, it sounded like you were asking how ld-decode would handle movies or videos that have single-pixel white or black spots that are part of the original signal, and that you thought it might detect those things as dropouts rather than the original signal.
I've read your post for a third time and I now realize that I completely misinterpreted what you were asking, and you're 100% right, it was a pretty bitchy response, and I apologize.
> Post-production effects should only be applied if nothing else does it better and
> after all work is done. On a finished dump so to say and i dont see why they should
> not work.
In general, it's better to apply these sorts of 'healing' filters in the RF domain, rather than after it has been decoded as an image. To that end, ld-decode already has a robust DOD (Drop-Out Detector) and DOC (Drop-Out Corrector).
ld-decode, at present, has the ability to do "3D" drop-out correction which is almost every bit as good as the sort of post-production effects that you would find in professional software.
When I say "3D", I mean it can look at the line above, the line below, to the left, to the right, one field ahead, and one field behind to determine what the best potential fill is for the dropout.
I don't know if you've seen this video yet, I might have linked it before, but this particular timestamp gives a really good impression of how advanced the dropout correction was in rev4 of ld-decode. rev6 is coming up later this month, and will have even more features. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNAwMmWLFTs&t=1m17s
While there's still an incredibly small number of sparkles left in the corrected frames, the majority of the remaining specks that you see are due to film grain that was part of the original disc master itself - exactly the kinds of things that post-production effects would also cover up.
So to that end, an imperfect but still-impressive dropout correction is far preferable to applying any kind of post-processing to the resulting image frame, which carries with it the risk of destroying or at least altering things that were present on the original disc master, too.
I should also point out that in that demo of ld-decode rev4, the Drop-Out Corrector results were from a single read of a single disc. It wasn't even by combining multiple reads.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384610 - 12/11/19 12:40 PM
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Mame 2020 hops:
Hyperneogeo64
Crusin exotica
Megatouch Maxx
model 3
Mk6 casino slots
Thanks to mame dev for relive arcade games
Edited by zouhir (12/11/19 12:45 PM)
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Same exact thing I hope for every year
[Re: Master O]
#384617 - 12/12/19 06:09 AM
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But it will never happen. I wish for Steve Golson to release the Crazy Otto roms. Yes, I know Scott Lawrence has recreated them to perfection (including the added frames) in HB Mame, but I will not be happy till I get to play the real thing.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384618 - 12/12/19 07:06 AM
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1. mamedev stopped all the Arcade emulation work and not doing anymore.
2. make more bugs to working drivers and demoted them to not working status .
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Fuck you
[Re: jasd]
#384619 - 12/12/19 09:00 AM
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> 1. mamedev stopped all the Arcade emulation work and not doing anymore.
> 2. make more bugs to working drivers and demoted them to not working status .
Fuck you
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: jasd]
#384620 - 12/12/19 10:47 AM
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> 1. mamedev stopped all the Arcade emulation work and not doing anymore.
> 2. make more bugs to working drivers and demoted them to not working status .
You don't know how close I am to repositioning MAME as a UNIX workstation emulator. We're the best InterPro CLIPPER workstation emulator right now.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#384624 - 12/12/19 09:28 PM
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> You don't know how close I am to repositioning MAME as a UNIX workstation emulator.
We need better mouse integration then :-)
OG.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#384626 - 12/12/19 10:07 PM
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> You don't know how close I am to repositioning MAME as a UNIX workstation emulator.
> We're the best InterPro CLIPPER workstation emulator right now.
I realize you're joking, but besides the unparalleled arcade games and consoles emulation of MAME, I sincerely hope that MAME will get as good as or better than QEMU when it comes to emulating the hardware that runs HP's HP-UX 10/11 and IBM's AIX 4/5/6/7, for example. I tried running SunOS 4 with MAME, but failed thus far, probably due to me not knowing what I'm doing
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Olivier Galibert]
#384627 - 12/12/19 10:12 PM
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> > You don't know how close I am to repositioning MAME as a UNIX workstation emulator.
>
> We need better mouse integration then :-)
>
> OG.
I know, dammit. I'm slowly getting through my TODO list - I finally addressed uniform devdelegate configuration, saving members of structs in arrays, strformat semantics in osd_printf_*/fatalerror, and a bunch of long-standing UI issues. I'll get there, it'll just take me a while.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#384628 - 12/12/19 10:17 PM
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> I was hoping people wouldn't start these stupid threads where they wish for stuff
> they have no intention of contributing to.
I fully get where you're coming from, but personally I don't see/view these threads/posts as 'demands made of the developers', but rather as users discussing among themselves what part(s) of MAME they like the best (and therefore hope will get better with time). And as an additional bonus, the developers show up from time to time to clarify to users what the current state of the art is on certain aspects of the emulation, and where the issues/problems for improvements lie (and what the past/present effort and hard work has been and still is).
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: mhoes]
#384629 - 12/12/19 10:19 PM
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> I fully get where you're coming from, but personally I don't see/view these threads/posts as 'demands made of the developers', but rather as users discussing among themselves what part(s) of MAME they like the best (and therefore hope will get better with time). And as an additional bonus, the developers show up from time to time to clarify to users what the current state of the art is on certain aspects of the emulation, and where the issues/problems for improvements lie (and what the past/present effort and hard work has been and still is).
That's exactly why I created this thread in the first place.
As for the thread itself, I'm certainly glad to see from previous posts that Laserdisc emulation is moving along.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#384630 - 12/12/19 11:03 PM
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> I know, dammit. I'm slowly getting through my TODO list - I finally addressed uniform
> devdelegate configuration, saving members of structs in arrays, strformat semantics
> in osd_printf_*/fatalerror, and a bunch of long-standing UI issues. I'll get there,
> it'll just take me a while.
*Very* good progress on the way though :-)
OG.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#384632 - 12/13/19 12:57 AM
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> > 1. mamedev stopped all the Arcade emulation work and not doing anymore.
> > 2. make more bugs to working drivers and demoted them to not working status .
>
> You don't know how close I am to repositioning MAME as a UNIX workstation emulator.
> We're the best InterPro CLIPPER workstation emulator right now.
The IRIX MIPS support is superb, getting better each release, and the SunOS/Solaris SPARC support is also promissing...
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| Mr. Do |
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MAME Art Editor
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Posts: 4869
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Loc: California
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Send PM
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Goodbye
[Re: jasd]
#384633 - 12/13/19 01:31 AM
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> 1. mamedev stopped all the Arcade emulation work and not doing anymore.
> 2. make more bugs to working drivers and demoted them to not working status .
After looking back, you've been posting this same dumbass shit for years, and all it does is rile people up and piss them off.
You're tired of MAME? We'll help you along... you are now gone.
Don't come back... Don't register with a different name unless you change your negative as fuck attitude.
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Re: Goodbye
[Re: Mr. Do]
#384634 - 12/13/19 02:52 AM
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> > 1. mamedev stopped all the Arcade emulation work and not doing anymore.
> > 2. make more bugs to working drivers and demoted them to not working status .
>
> After looking back, you've been posting this same dumbass shit for years, and all it
> does is rile people up and piss them off.
>
> You're tired of MAME? We'll help you along... you are now gone.
>
> Don't come back... Don't register with a different name unless you change your
> negative as fuck attitude.
Yeah, I blocked him on my blog years ago.
All he ever did was demand something, then as soon as it was done, demand something else, and nitpick over flags etc.
I'd post news about some major progress, and he's just post some off-topic stuff about another entirely unrelated system, with some expectation that I should be working on that instead. It wasn't constructive, it wasn't related, there were no connections, it wasn't thought provoking, it was just unappreciative nagging.
He contributed absolutely nothing. None of the things he demanded served to further any bigger picture of figuring things out, nor could he appreciate when things were being done that would make such things easier in the future.
Now, after he's soured the interest in a lot of things, and we're really not touching any of the things he cares about, his attitude has just got worse and worse. He even took to trolling the shoutbox over at bannister.org recently.
Now maybe it's some language barrier problem, I don't know, but I reached the end of my tether with him a long time ago.
I know he's posted many words of praise about me in the past, but I don't want words of praise just because I'm doing something somebody wants to see; the good feeling comes from simply knowing that a difference is being made, even if that difference is ensuring some complete trash is never forgotten.
Either way, if you look at what MAME is doing today it's making more of a difference than ever, it's transformed from what was just seen a toy to play some arcade games to something that is plugging gaps across the entire emulation scene. MAME is driving vast quantities of research in areas that were poorly documented, or where previously nobody care enough about to safeguard them for the future. That is amazing, and any true fan of the project would be proud to see how it's grown up like this even, how all the work that was put in over the years is enabling so much to be done, and isn't simply being wasted by artificially narrowing the scope.
A lot of the things mentioned in this thread, no, they're probably not going to happen, but countless other things will, and every one has some meaning or story to uncover.
2020 will likely see all the Game & Watch titles covered, aside maybe a few variations. If you'd asked me if I thought that would be the case 4 years ago I would have laughed at you. The implausible, and even 'impossible' is happening before our eyes. Even as somebody who pushed for this model of MAME, I could not have imagined we'd be seeing this level of results, nor digging up quite so much that had been neglected and changing that, it's still really difficult to get my head around.
The talent of the people I'm able to work with these days is another thing to behold. So many people who will look at things, and try to find a way to conquer them, people who don't accept 'impossible' as an answer, people with insanely good hardware hacking skills which make it a pleasure to work on the software side of things in support of them.
Anybody could have seen how much I was starting to hate MAME development a few years back, it had simply become a chore, and unwanted responsibility, but the more recent years have been a revelation because we are doing so much more to change the future, and if jasd can't see that, it's his loss really.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame?
[Re: Master O]
#384637 - 12/13/19 03:51 PM
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It might be a small thing compared with stuff like LaserDisc support, but I myself would love to see some progress in Z80 emulation (for those problematic Spectrum games) and the 3″ floppy disk protection support.
Some Mega Drive fixes would be quite awesome too, it was great seeing the improvements on the SNES core this year.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame?
[Re: ICEknight]
#384638 - 12/13/19 04:26 PM
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> 3″ floppy disk protection support.
Mhhh? Whazzat?
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame?
[Re: Olivier Galibert]
#384639 - 12/13/19 04:35 PM
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> > 3″ floppy disk protection support.
>
> Mhhh? Whazzat?
There's some Spectrum +3 games which don't load and I'm assuming it's because of their protection schemes... but perhaps I'm wrong?
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame?
[Re: ICEknight]
#384641 - 12/13/19 08:31 PM
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Yes some spectrum games like Outrun and Robocop, you are right. According with the last reports, it seems to be a protection issue.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384644 - 12/14/19 03:00 AM
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The same thing I want every year. A game I do not like much, the mystery 'alt choplifter'. Unless someone put it in there and I didn't notice
One that I have been noodling around in my head for a long time is breaking ROM_START/ROM_END into xml files. Could be very interesting on compile times.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: lharms]
#384645 - 12/14/19 04:36 AM
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> One that I have been noodling around in my head for a long time is breaking
> ROM_START/ROM_END into xml files. Could be very interesting on compile times.
Using external XML files for ROM definitions has been suggested every now and then in the past; I recall flirting with the idea myself once. It would also have the advantage of reducing binary size considerably. The major problems that have been raised include users being tempted to update the binary without the support files (which is already a problem with plugins and software lists), and making it much easier to produce hacked versions whose ROM hashes don't match the verified sets.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: AJR Hacker]
#384647 - 12/14/19 05:01 PM
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Someone to take over doing the handheld artwork
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: AJR Hacker]
#384648 - 12/14/19 07:55 PM
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I took a while to reply to this. This C139 may as well be a custom multi-protocol/data link controller possibly with DMA. I can confirm it's a ring style protocol as the style for connecting Namco cabinets (at least from the manual) is similar to connecting Sega cabinets. Both have a send/receive port.
I like how my Motocross Go machines have two different USB ports, A and B, making the send/receive ports a bit easier to tell.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: AJR Hacker]
#384662 - 12/15/19 10:56 PM
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> > One that I have been noodling around in my head for a long time is breaking
> > ROM_START/ROM_END into xml files. Could be very interesting on compile times.
>
> Using external XML files for ROM definitions has been suggested every now and then in
> the past; I recall flirting with the idea myself once. It would also have the
> advantage of reducing binary size considerably. The major problems that have been
> raised include users being tempted to update the binary without the support files
> (which is already a problem with plugins and software lists), and making it much
> easier to produce hacked versions whose ROM hashes don't match the verified sets.
Plus the binary+xml size would be bigger than the current binary alone, and parsing the xml would increase startup times annoyingly (you'd have to parse it all to find the driver you want).
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384664 - 12/16/19 01:37 AM
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Ah! And also the FunWorld Photo Play...
We have tons of unmamed dumps from CDs and HDDs, plus dumps from the motherboards BIOS, from the sound and I/O cards, from the MicroTouch intefaces... Even some SEEPROMs from the parallel port dongles.
But all this is a complete mess that needs to be sorted out.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Olivier Galibert]
#384665 - 12/16/19 01:58 AM
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> > > One that I have been noodling around in my head for a long time is breaking
> > > ROM_START/ROM_END into xml files. Could be very interesting on compile times.
> >
> > Using external XML files for ROM definitions has been suggested every now and then
> in
> > the past; I recall flirting with the idea myself once. It would also have the
> > advantage of reducing binary size considerably. The major problems that have been
> > raised include users being tempted to update the binary without the support files
> > (which is already a problem with plugins and software lists), and making it much
> > easier to produce hacked versions whose ROM hashes don't match the verified sets.
>
> Plus the binary+xml size would be bigger than the current binary alone, and parsing
> the xml would increase startup times annoyingly (you'd have to parse it all to find
> the driver you want).
Someone who can make a rom hack but can not follow the directions on mamedev to build it would be an interesting intersection of person.
Also thought most of the start up bits and game lists came out of the 'GAME' structs? Course I could be reading it wrong. Like I said just thinking about it. Just one of those things I have learned over the years. Do not mix data and code. Which is a moot point at this point. Not that I am going to do anything. As I would have to get clearance at work to even have the public repo.
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| Andrew |
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Girl Watcher
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Re: Same exact thing I hope for every year
[Re: sirscotty]
#384668 - 12/16/19 05:46 AM
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384685 - 12/17/19 07:11 AM
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Same thing as the past ten years- finding and emulating the missing Nichibutsu "Moon" games. Of course, they have to turn up first, and I'd be glad to pitch cash towards these games.
Oh... and Owen Rubin's vector Tunnel Hunt (Tube Chase/Vertigo), as well as other lost prototypes (Malibu Grand Prix, Sebring), but that's not very likely...
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Loc: southern CA, US
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Re: Same exact thing I hope for every year
[Re: Andrew]
#384693 - 12/17/19 09:50 PM
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384699 - 12/18/19 04:06 AM
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My hopes for 2020 is same it was for 2019. It has not changed. So here it is.
-Atari Games: Area 51 Site 4, Primal Rage 2, and Metal Maniax
-Sega Games: Improvements in sega model 1, model 2, and model 3 and get them promoted to working status
-Namco Games: Improvements in Namco System 10, System 21, System 22, and System 23.
-VR arcade games: Pac-Man VR and Missile Command VR
-Magic the Gathering Armageddon, Quake arcade tournament
-Konami Cobra hardware game: Fighting Bujutsu
-Konami polygonet games: Polynet Warriors, Polygonet Commanders
-Hyper Neo Geo 64 games.
But the only difference is the MESS side.
-improvements and better accurate emulation for these consoles: Atari Jaguar/Jaguar CD, and 3DO.
-improvements in FM7,FM7AV, PC-88, and PC-98 hopefully get promoted to working status
-improvements in FM Towns and hopefully get promoted to working status
-save state support for the sharp systems like Sharp X1 and Sharp x68000.
That's pretty all I have. If not 2020, then hopefully it will be done sometime later in the future.
-
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: gamerfan]
#384700 - 12/18/19 05:21 AM
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Similar wish list to mine . Fortunately, the manual for Polygonet contains a schematic of the trace/line routes of all possible chips. I may be able to confirm this hardware uses a custom 056230 for networking.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: gamerfan]
#384701 - 12/18/19 06:18 AM
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We've just had huge improvements for Sega Model 1 board, with Star Wars Arcade and Wing War now playable. Ready for MAME 0.217
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384709 - 12/18/19 02:54 PM
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My wish list, if possible:
1. Have the Sega Model 1, 2 & 3 games all playable
2. Elevator Action Death Parade playable
3. See the Marble Man roms donated
4. Start seeing the achieving of Laserdisc arcade games from the Domesday project into Mame
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: zouhir]
#384738 - 12/22/19 09:40 PM
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> Mk6 casino slots
You're not the only one wishing for that, but the video chip is completely unemulated (not to mention some games need two of these chips to power both screens) which may be a problem as PowerVR documentation isn't really out there - the GPU is similar but not identical to the Sega Dreamcast/NAOMI chip, which is probably the only reason the boot-up text is even readable at this stage. And then there's the problem of having no inputs hooked up (buttons, doors/optics, coins/notes, hopper, comms etc.) which could even be the main reason why they hang after the POST, just like the MK5 games used to do (speaking of MK5, the first games were preserved way back in 0.129u3 and only started booting in 0.180).
The best thing for now would be to find and/or document as many things as possible, although it will be very difficult from next year when the hardware ends up in landfill (most venues already ditched their MK6 games this year, at least down here in Melbourne - you're lucky if there are half a dozen MK6s left even in a large venue with 100 machines).
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384743 - 12/23/19 09:52 AM
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1. The option to increase rendering resolution for 3D based games. Yeah,yeah I know, BLASPHEMY! and all that and I know it will never happen but I don't care, this is a wish list & some of these games would look awesome running at higher resolutions.
2. Re-introduction of 'in game' per HLSL config saving. It's been a right royal PAIN IN MY ASS not having this feature for the last few years. Emulate 30yr old arcade systems, no problem! but have the ability to save a config file is beyond the ability of all MAME devs? Somethings not quite right there.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Ziggy100]
#384745 - 12/23/19 03:07 PM
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> 1. The option to increase rendering resolution for 3D based games. Yeah,yeah I know,
> BLASPHEMY! and all that and I know it will never happen but I don't care, this is a
> wish list & some of these games would look awesome running at higher resolutions.
Since MAME is all about accuracy, I'd rather have something like a global toggle for interlaced video in all systems that supported it, instead of forcing the better-looking higher resolution.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384751 - 12/24/19 03:00 PM
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Well, Mame is already godlike as it is, I just want the work to continue. But if we could play Hyper Fighting at right speed or the bugs on Tekken 3 could actually be fixed it would be pretty neat.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384752 - 12/24/19 03:50 PM
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My current hopes are:
* Renewed interest in various floppy improvements surrounding flux reads (several systems have flux reads now, like X68K, that trigger copy protection issues in MAME) as Apple II was only the beginning.
* Eventual Lua access to all aspects of the UI so that an old project of mine can be brought back to life.
* That I can somehow find my Tiger Electronics Castlevania 2 so I can get that mailed out to get it emulated.
* For my health to improve enough that I'm not just treading water but actually making huge forward progress on MAME-related projects.
* Someone to actually unravel the PlayChoice 10 driver because that desperately needs reworking.
* Not likely, but.. VR support. (I found a driver that allows me to use my PSVR with Steam, and getting MAME into that would be pretty fun.)
* For Vas to actually get 12 months in a row where there's minimal stress.
* For MG to actually get 12 months in a row where there's minimal stress.
That's my wishlist surrounding MAME off the top of my head.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Firehawke]
#384756 - 12/24/19 04:59 PM
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> * For my health to improve enough that I'm not just treading water but actually
> making huge forward progress on MAME-related projects.
Agreed!
> * For MG to actually get 12 months in a row where there's minimal stress.
Well, that's certainly not going to happen this year, given our schedule at work.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384757 - 12/24/19 05:12 PM
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- N64 emulation playable on currently available CPUs (I understand the challenges and appreciate all the work that has gone into the n64/Aleck64 driver, but hot damn do I hate plug-in based emulators with their resolution increasing, texture misaligning, non-original output bullshit - and no, an AngryLion plugin is NOT the answer - It's nearly 2020, the N64 is 23 years old, and these current emulators SUCK. And with 3DO, Saturn and Playstation emulators like 4DO/SSF/Mednafen, it would just be nice to a a software-based N64 emulator that 'just works').
- Jaguar/Jaguar CD emulation - Available emulators aren't in a great position and while never having owned this system and knowing full well that the game library is poo, it would be nice to have a solid Jaguar emulation solution.
- Mega Man 3 Tiger Electronics hand held - I really need to get my butt in gear to ship one of these off of Sean Riddle. It's actually a Tiger game that doesn't totally suck.
- Nintendo M82 (NTSC) - It's the Nintendo Entertainment System juke box. The PAL rom is dumped. From what I've seen on Reddit, the NTSC rom is dumped but not shared.
Edited by Pr3tty F1y (12/24/19 05:18 PM)
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384758 - 12/24/19 07:21 PM
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384759 - 12/24/19 07:53 PM
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super ghost and ghouls to be emulated for mame arcade version
so we can have finally the trilogy of knight Arthur tales on arcade mode
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: pepinos]
#384762 - 12/24/19 09:40 PM
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> super ghost and ghouls to be emulated for mame arcade version
> so we can have finally the trilogy of knight Arthur tales on arcade mode
it was never an arcade game...
SNES, Saturn and PSX only (with a slightly different version on the GBA)
if you want to play it then just run the SNES version in MAME, it appears play alright.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384783 - 12/25/19 10:10 PM
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For me, maybe some progress on tatsumi.c, perhaps getting apache3 and other games in the driver working.
The megasys1.c rewrite and figuring out what's up with kazan and others (protection?)
Figuring out the rotation issues in speed racer, missing roms dumped (namcofl.c)
Edited by MC68K (12/25/19 10:15 PM)
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: MC68K]
#384820 - 12/27/19 08:20 AM
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My hope for MAME in 2020 or at least in the future would have:
Air Inferno (World version that has "(C) 1990 TAITO CORPORATION JAPAN ALL RIGHTS RESERVED")
Arm Champs
Cosmos Circuit (Prototype Arcade Laserdisc)
Crazy Otto (if it does ever get release)
Double Axle (World version that has "(C) 1990 TAITO CORPORATION JAPAN ALL RIGHTS RESERVED")
Galaxy Force (not the II version)
Hyper Sports (World version that has "KONAMI (R) | (C) KONAMI 1984")
Jurassic Park (US from SEGA)
Kung Fu Kid (Mega-Tech, yes there is a Mega-Tech release of that game I assure you)
Ridge Racer (3 screen version)
Round-Up 5: Super Delta Force (3 screen version)
Sonic Blast Man (World version that has "(C) 1990 TAITO CORPORATION JAPAN ALL RIGHTS RESERVED")
Super Dead Head (Japanese prototype not dumped but here's the video showing: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vOC56PvZN5w
Time Gal
TX-1 (another export version sold outside in Japan similar to the ATARI release and here's the website showing you the title screen: http://www.ausretrogamer.com/search/thrill+of+the+chase/page/3/
TX-1 V8
Vs. Blaster Master (unreleased)
Vs. Urban Champion
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384838 - 12/28/19 07:26 PM
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all the handheld games of the 80s from the company's
Casio and Gakken eventually to be emulated on mame
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Master O]
#384882 - 01/01/20 03:08 PM
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My little Dream is "Cruis'n Exotica" in a playable state and Link supported for the entire Cruis'n Games
a happy new Year to ALL :-)
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: alfman]
#384886 - 01/01/20 09:24 PM
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> My little Dream is "Cruis'n Exotica" in a playable state and Link supported for the
> entire Cruis'n Games
>
> a happy new Year to ALL :-)
2020 has finally come and I have to keep updating info. Cruis'n Exotica (as well as The Grid) uses a UART on its IOASIC chip for linking so it may not be so difficult to implement (requires splitting two ports to daisy chain MAME instances).
The V-Unit's linking feature is difficult to explain having 16 lines connecting both pcbs; eight RS485 bidirectional lines converted from/to logic and eight GPIB I/O ports. My explanation for V Unit linking is far from final and would plan to make a different thread explain its linking hardware.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Hydreigon]
#384887 - 01/01/20 09:30 PM
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> > My little Dream is "Cruis'n Exotica" in a playable state and Link supported for the
> > entire Cruis'n Games
> >
> > a happy new Year to ALL :-)
>
> 2020 has finally come and I have to keep updating info. Cruis'n Exotica (as well as
> The Grid) uses a UART on its IOASIC chip for linking so it may not be so difficult to
> implement (requires splitting two ports to daisy chain MAME instances).
>
> The V-Unit's linking feature is difficult to explain having 16 lines connecting both
> pcbs; eight RS485 bidirectional lines converted from/to logic and eight GPIB I/O
> ports. My explanation for V Unit linking is far from final and would plan to make a
> different thread explain its linking hardware.
Many thanks for this Informations
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: uman]
#384912 - 01/04/20 09:59 PM
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> I would like to see all vector options from MAME 0.178 and of HLSL converted to BGFX.
I'm game to convert them over to BGFX, but you're going to have to be more specific. According to the project's Git history, I effectively didn't make any changes to MAME during that cycle, but your friends Jezze and Calamity made a whole lot of them.
For as much as it seems like you feel like their changes tend to be better than mine, apparently there's something that they did wrong. So what is it? Can you narrow it down to an exact commit from around 3,25 years ago where they broke something that you really liked?
I'm not asking just to be a dick, I really want to know where this apparent regression in quality happened, so I have a point that I can work off of when porting things over to BGFX, knowing safely that the code I'm porting over is the "right" code.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#384924 - 01/06/20 01:44 AM
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First of all, thank you for looking into this. I did a bugreport on MT:
https://mametesters.org/view.php?id=7342
So somewhere in the changes from 0.179 to 0.180 lies the solution to the described problem. Just start „Asteroids“ in GDI mode and observe for example the rocks and the existing points in them. And then start it again with HLSL. In MAME 0.180 with HLSL, the points are gone.
> I'm game to convert them over to BGFX, but you're going to have to be more specific.
> According to the project's Git history, I effectively didn't make any changes to MAME
> during that cycle, but your friends Jezze and Calamity made a whole lot of them.
I think that the Calamity changes are fine, because it looks like a specific HLSL problem and Calamity did not change a thing there AFAIK.
Yes, Jezze did a lot changes since 0.162, but he also left MAME after 0.182 AFAIK. Just to be clear here, this is a bug and nothing that Jezze wanted as a feature. It was on a list of „to do‘s“, but he left MAME before fixing this.
> For as much as it seems like you feel like their changes tend to be better than mine,
> apparently there's something that they did wrong. So what is it? Can you narrow it
> down to an exact commit from around 3,25 years ago where they broke something that
> you really liked?
>
> I'm not asking just to be a dick, I really want to know where this apparent
> regression in quality happened, so I have a point that I can work off of when porting
> things over to BGFX, knowing safely that the code I'm porting over is the "right"
> code.
I always liked what you did with HLSL, I mean more or less you invented it. I did not like the changes of user anikom15 or the status of BGFX some versions ago.
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| Mr. Do |
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MAME Art Editor
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Posts: 4869
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Loc: California
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Send PM
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Sorry for the thread hijack... trying to get ahold of you... assuming you aren't getting PMs.
I would like to finish Vectrex for next artwork update.
Can you send me the PSD file of system pic attached below?
Also... I just noticed for the first time... you sent me the overlays with the bezel window and clips as part of the overlay... any change you can resend those, as "just the overlay." (Example in reply to this post).
There is no need to combine the overlay with the bezel window into one image file; I can do all that in the LAY file, while still keeping the original overlay file intact. By having it in its current state, we are taking away the option of an end user that may not want to play with the entire artwork showing, and just wants the overlay visible.
And did you ever manage to complete, to your liking, the other four games that you had not sent me two years ago?
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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| Mr. Do |
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MAME Art Editor
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Posts: 4869
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Loc: California
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Send PM
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Prefer to have the overlay in its original state, withouth the system bezel window and clips as part of the file.
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#385055 - 01/19/20 09:26 PM
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A full working Aristocrat MK6 emulator (MK6Emu) already exists for a year or two, so why would you want to emulate in MAME?
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Didi]
#385061 - 01/20/20 06:17 AM
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It only runs older NSW software (and not USA platform or any other region), and doesn't even do that properly, the program code dates from 2004 (but was leaked around 2008, not "a year or two" ago) and has been heavily hacked over time. Try running a newer game like Deep Freeze for example.
The system base (aka BIOS) which is compiled as part of the EXE (which is not a ROM image but actual x86/Win32 code) is version 12011401 which is too old to run practically anything newer than 2006. The EXE patches everything out from the comms board to the hopper (even the coin input is a hack, note that coins still work even when the door is open - on a real machine they would fall through) and also bypasses the self tests by running the games directly without the POST, so it can't even be relied on for testing good dumps - at least that can be done in MAME if nothing else for now.
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Didi]
#385062 - 01/20/20 07:23 AM
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> A full working Aristocrat MK6 emulator (MK6Emu) already exists for a year or two, so
> why would you want to emulate in MAME?
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| Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: 2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
[Re: Didi]
#385064 - 01/20/20 09:36 AM
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> A full working Aristocrat MK6 emulator (MK6Emu) already exists for a year or two, so
> why would you want to emulate in MAME?
Do you have source code for it?
If not, then there's part of your answer right there. MAME is open source.
- Stiletto
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Index 
Threaded 
2020's Almost Here: What Do You Guys Hope For in Mame/Mess?
Reply
[Re: 
Sure I have other games I want to be fixed, but I wouldn't make a wish list. Just grateful for all the accomplishments & I'm eternally grateful to everyone that contributed. Weather they were major contributions, or minor ones
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