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John IVModerator
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MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks
#401110 - 09/26/25 07:32 PM Attachment: 2025b.png 412 KB (1 downloads)


https://john-iv.github.io/iv-play/

[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]

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IV/Play Homepage : MAME™ Front-End, Icons, Snapshots & Benchmarks
https://john-iv.github.io/iv-play/



SecretAgentMan
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: John IV]
#401113 - 09/27/25 05:24 AM


Thanks!!



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petran79
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: SecretAgentMan]
#401134 - 09/30/25 02:57 PM


Interesting. Tried few games on an i5 245k, 5600 DDR5, with XMP and 2SBoost activated (5 Ghz frequency).

MK4: 529.15
Scud:242.02
sushibar:158.57



John IVModerator
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: petran79]
#401135 - 09/30/25 05:26 PM


Thanks, those are interesting for the latest 'Ultra' base tier. Remember scud needs to have its dips set up first before running, or you're benching the diag screen.

Edited by John IV (09/30/25 05:37 PM)



IV/Play Homepage : MAME™ Front-End, Icons, Snapshots & Benchmarks
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petran79
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: John IV]
#401139 - 10/01/25 06:00 AM


> Thanks, those are interesting for the latest 'Ultra' base tier. Remember scud needs
> to have its dips set up first before running, or you're benching the diag screen.

Ah, I see. I did set single cabinet to avoid network search and game booted. I still got a 225.03 mark.

for the rest I skipped the chd games and I entered the highest benchmark value as it would fluctuate. Eg Tekken first gave me 1136 and second 982.


Games where differences were minor to negligible, below 5 percent:

dkong, pacman, propcycle, spacfury, starsldr, vf2, vfkids

Games with significant frame increase, above 30 percent:
scud, rvschool, tekken, tekken3

rest had just a 10-15 percent difference

cubeqst: 653.12
cyvern: 1872.3
dkong: 4516.68
driveedge: 683.4
gauntleg:893.9
gnbarich:3902.5
gradius4:683.5
harddriv:1193.3
kidniki:778.28
kof98:2191.8
mario: 1971.9
pacman:21241.3
pinkswts:3130.8
pong: 804.4
propcycle:411.1
radikalb:436.6
roadblst:2034.2
robotron:9291.2
rvschool:762.03
sf2:3770.55
sfa2:2944.1
sfiii:2504.35
slrasslt:793.07
spacfury:287.57
starblad:353.35
starsldr:209.52
tekken: 1136.26
tekken3:614.5
vf2:252.6
vfkids:243.82



taz-nz
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: petran79]
#401143 - 10/02/25 02:48 AM


Interest information, thanks for posting.

Can you please run benchmark on Dolphin Blue, rom name dolphin I'd be interest to see how it runs on your CPU.

Thanks



If all else fails, Burn the manual.



John IVModerator
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: taz-nz]
#401144 - 10/02/25 03:40 AM Attachment: BigBench.TXT 25 KB (11 downloads)


Hello Taz-NZ!

Here's my results for 'dolphin' w/ the 12700K for a baseline against the Ultra i5.
Average speed: 101.77% (89 seconds)

Also, fwiw, here's my latest bench script I use. Tweak the variables at the top for your locations as needed and rename from *.txt to *.ps1 for Powershell 7x use.



IV/Play Homepage : MAME™ Front-End, Icons, Snapshots & Benchmarks
https://john-iv.github.io/iv-play/



taz-nz
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: John IV]
#401145 - 10/02/25 04:30 AM


Thanks, new script is huge upgrade from the old batch file.

I hope to put it to good use in the near future.

Haven't gotten to play with any current gen CPUs at work as I've been laid up for almost a year, had to have spinal surgery and it's been a slow recovery, but hope to be back at work soon.

Once I am I'll drag a couple of the high-end machines onto the testbench and put your script to good use running some new benchmarks.

Dolphin Blue is my white whale for MAME Benchmarks I hope to one day have system that can play it a consistent 100%.


On a random note, since you're a moderator, I had to use a VPN to post, seem the entire IP range of my ISP / Cellphone provider is blocked. Without VPN I get this message:

Your account has been banned or locked: : ..Lazycat (Mobile Range 118.148.0.0 - 118.149.255.255)



If all else fails, Burn the manual.



John IVModerator
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: taz-nz]
#401146 - 10/02/25 05:14 AM


It's good to hear from you, I'm glad you're recovering. Yeah... those atomiswaves and naomis would be nice. We'll need the benches to get nearer 200% (usually) to ensure full speed playability beyond the 90 second demos.



IV/Play Homepage : MAME™ Front-End, Icons, Snapshots & Benchmarks
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petran79
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: taz-nz]
#401147 - 10/02/25 10:08 AM


> Interest information, thanks for posting.
>
> Can you please run benchmark on Dolphin Blue, rom name dolphin I'd be interest to see
> how it runs on your CPU.
>
> Thanks

In my case it runs around 121.5% and in-game around 85-90% game speed and 65 in the intro sequences. Just like with Sega Model 2, they can be fully playable in a couple of years with current processors.



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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: John IV]
#401149 - 10/02/25 02:44 PM


> Hello Taz-NZ!
>
> Here's my results for 'dolphin' w/ the 12700K for a baseline against the Ultra i5.
> Average speed: 101.77% (89 seconds)
>
> Also, fwiw, here's my latest bench script I use. Tweak the variables at the top for
> your locations as needed and rename from *.txt to *.ps1 for Powershell 7x use.

Nice.

I've got an Intel Ultra 7 265K now... is this something you would want to add to your benchmarks for each new release?

-- About how long does a bench take to run?
-- Do I need to do any type of setup to any other games beforehand, like you mentioned for scud?




RELAX and just have fun. Remember, it's all about the games.




voodoodoll
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. new [Re: petran79]
#401150 - 10/02/25 02:44 PM


.



John IVModerator
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: Mr. Do]
#401151 - 10/02/25 03:33 PM


Mr. Do. If you check the results pages I publish there are legend notes at the bottom of the table for the games that need to have their NVRAM set up. There's six of them.

Crusnusa
gradius4
robotron
scud
slrasslt
tekken3 (run in the higher res mode).

It takes 11 minutes on my machine. Usually people just drop in and post their results periodically on these benchmark posts. No need to feel obligated to be ready with monthly tallies.



John IVModerator
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. new [Re: voodoodoll]
#401152 - 10/02/25 07:49 PM


.



voodoodoll
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. new [Re: John IV]
#401153 - 10/02/25 10:21 PM


.



taz-nz
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: voodoodoll]
#401154 - 10/03/25 12:58 AM


Those numbers are really impressive; goes to shows how effective the Apple silicon design is.

Be interest to see how MAME scaled across the different M4 CPU models, since MAME typically doesn't scale much beyond 3 or 4 cores, even the core count of the base model M4 shouldn't affect performance that much, so it should be possible to see the effects of the memory bandwidth differences between the three models of CPU:
M4 having 120GB/s
M4 Pro having 273GB/s
M4 Max having 546GB/s

It would also be interest to see how the AMD Ryzen AI Max+ 395 in Framework Desktop compares, since it has a very similar package and memory layout to the Apple silicon, with its 256 GB/s on package memory, which puts it head-to-head with the M4 Pro at least memory bandwidth wise.



taz-nz
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: petran79]
#401156 - 10/03/25 01:22 AM


Thanks, about where I was expecting it to be.

I'll keep hoping, but it really depends on how much gain we see in IPC and clock speed with new processors since MAME doesn't really gain anything from more cores.



voodoodoll
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. new [Re: taz-nz]
#401157 - 10/03/25 01:40 AM


.



taz-nz
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: voodoodoll]
#401158 - 10/03/25 04:54 AM


I'd be surprised if MAME performance scaled any higher with M2 Ultra or M3 Ultra CPUs despite their huge memory bandwidth.

MAME performance has always been heavily tied to CPU IPC and clock speed, more than brute multicore performance like you get with the Mac Ultra CPUs.

The higher clock speed and thus single thread performance of the M4 MAX would likely put it ahead of the Mac Ultra CPUs due to MAME's limited multithreading.

Geekbench Single Thread score: (Imperfect test but the easiest comparison)
Mac Studio M4 Max @ 4.51 GHz, 546 GB/s: 4049
Max Studio M3 Ultra @ 4.05 GHz, 819 GB/s: 3247
Max Studio M2 Ultra @ 3.70 GHz, 819 Gb/s: 2776

I'd be happy to be proven wrong, even if the system that does it if far outside my budget range.



petran79
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: voodoodoll]
#401159 - 10/03/25 06:23 AM


> Yes, I'm very happy with Apple Silicon. However, some games in MAME give a black
> screen on M4 while on a Windows PC they work. I think it has something to do with the
> devs working on ARM64.
> I'm a senior software engineer working at Apple getting a 10% discount on my hardware
> ;-)
> Every employee has this advantage.
>
> Apple did an incredible job with Apple Silicon. My wife creates video content using
> Final Cut Pro and can merge up to 16 8K streams (!) and the result is rendered under
> 5 minutes for a 1 hour video. The unified memory is shining here and it uses both all
> CPU and GPU cores.
> And all this fits into a tiny notebook making almost no noise and consuming a
> fraction of the energy of a x64 machine.
>
> The future is really bright and I expect Apple will even get close to NVIDIA/AMD
> graphics performance. Already right now I can play heavy AAA games on maximum
> settings (while connected to a Pro Display XDR).


For Mame results are impressive

another important thing is VRR for the arcade games with various different frequencies.
I use a Gsync monitor that makes the difference in smooth gameplay.
Even on Linux I use a vga monitor via Switchres.

Apple does not seem to want to focus on these niche technologies



uman
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. new [Re: voodoodoll]
#401160 - 10/03/25 07:35 AM


.



taz-nz
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: petran79]
#401161 - 10/03/25 09:20 AM


I'm no fan of the locked down nature of Apple systems.

But a quick search shows all Mac computers with Apple Silicone running MacOS 12 or newer support VRR using the Adaptive Sync standard.

Use Adaptive Sync with your Mac

Use an Adaptive Sync external display with your Mac

But you are limited to Display Port monitors.



voodoodoll
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. new [Re: taz-nz]
#401162 - 10/03/25 10:38 AM


.



voodoodoll
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. new [Re: uman]
#401163 - 10/03/25 10:54 AM


.



petran79
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: taz-nz]
#401164 - 10/03/25 02:10 PM


Notice that VRR can be very finicky for retro emulation.
I do not remember if it was MAME or MAME Retroarch core but another user had issues with some games because his monitor was Gsync compatible, whereas mine had a Gsync module

I am not sure how Apple implements VRR for MAME.
Aside from Windows and Xorg on Linux, the other results were less than stellar.



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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: John IV]
#401165 - 10/03/25 07:39 PM


AMD Ryzen 9 9950X3D, 64 GB DDR5-6000 RAM, GeForce 3080Ti, Windows 11, MAME 0.281 official binary.


Code:

Game                    Speed      Seconds
------------------------------------------------
blitz 542.72 89
crusnusa 513.33 89
cubeqst 485.10 89
cyvern 2,426.76 89
dkong 5,292.75 89
drivedge 622.90 89
gauntleg 840.46 89
gnbarich 3,801.61 89
gradius4 788.26 89
gtfore06 1,222.37 89
harddriv 1,137.90 89
kidniki 868.15 89
kof98 2,257.63 89
mario 2,208.34 89
mk4 473.96 89
pacman 23,672.03 89
pinkswts 3,022.75 89
pong 897.71 89
propcycl 501.32 89
radikalb 494.29 89
roadblst 2,047.67 89
robotron 9,462.19 89
rvschool 619.64 89
scud 148.81 89
sf2 4,096.25 89
sfa2 3,197.52 89
sfiii 3,161.08 89
slrasslt 905.07 89
spacfury 380.15 89
starblad 339.44 89
starsldr 212.67 89
sushibar 148.73 89
tekken 988.18 89
tekken3 561.25 89
vf2 286.65 89
vfkids 274.10 89




John IVModerator
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: R. Belmont]
#401166 - 10/03/25 09:59 PM


Thanks RB, can you run gtfore06 by itself? 'mame gtfore06 -bench 90'

I've noticed in the last couple of weeks it's producing abnormally high results but only in the bench suite vs. by itself oddly.



taz-nz
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: R. Belmont]
#401167 - 10/03/25 11:16 PM


Thanks for posting this, been interested to know how Zen5 would perform running MAME for a while.

Do you know what cores MAME was running on?

Be interesting to compare the performance on 3D V-Cache cores vs the slightly higher clocked cores without the extra cache, by confining MAME to only running on CCD0 and then on CCD1 to see if MAME is affected more by the extra Cache or more clock speed or if doesn't matter.



voodoodoll
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. new [Re: R. Belmont]
#401168 - 10/04/25 12:29 AM


.



petran79
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: voodoodoll]
#401170 - 10/04/25 02:25 AM


> Let's not turn this forum in a discussion about Apple.
>
> There are adaptors for everything.
> Thunderbolt uses the USB-C standard and can be converted to everything you need.
> I have 2 Pro XDR Displays connected but also my HDMI TV using this adaptor (I can
> even connect my iPad or iPhone to my TV):
>
> https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HRG42...21e24f10ab94d57


can you do a test to see if vrr works? Run Mortal Kombat 1 and press coin and start button. The vertical animation with character faces should be smooth, as game runs at 54 fps instead of 60.
Another test is to start Samurai Showdown 2, press coin and start and see if character select background animation is smooth and character shadows during play flicker ultra fast Then this means that VRR works.
With regular monitors it is not possible



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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: taz-nz]
#401171 - 10/04/25 09:08 AM


> Thanks for posting this, been interested to know how Zen5 would perform running MAME
> for a while.

It compiles MAME about a minute faster than my M3 Max (7 minutes for a clean full build with tools vs. 8 on my M3 Max), which is what I'm happiest about, but running it really well is great too of course :-) Also Vas is continuing to tune the DRC for both x64 and ARM so there should be small improvements in the heavier games in 0.282 again.

> Do you know what cores MAME was running on?

I don't. And MAME is known to like both IPC and memory bandwidth, so I wouldn't expect conclusive results. The best case would probably be the heavily rumored "9950X4D" that's supposed to be coming early next year with V-Cache on both CCDs.

I'm also happy at the recent rumors that Zen 7 is going to still be Socket AM5, so there's potentially a nice upgrade path all the way through 2028 with just replacing the CPU and maybe RAM. Zen 6 next year will bump the cores per CCD so the Ryzen 9 parts are 24 core instead of 16, and the X3D Zen 6 parts are rumored to all have V-Cache on both CCDs.



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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: voodoodoll]
#401172 - 10/04/25 09:12 AM


> Legends say the best race horses are raised on a diet of Macintosh apples on a ranch
> in California, USA.

I went absolute high end on this build just to have a PC that beats my M3 Max MacBook Pro on MAME again. I'd be curious to see M4 results. I've heard M5 will be a noticeable bump too, similar to the A19 Pro.



uman
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. new [Re: voodoodoll]
#401173 - 10/04/25 09:42 AM


.



taz-nz
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: R. Belmont]
#401177 - 10/04/25 11:09 AM


> It compiles MAME about a minute faster than my M3 Max (7 minutes for a clean full
> build with tools vs. 8 on my M3 Max), which is what I'm happiest about, but running
> it really well is great too of course :-) Also Vas is continuing to tune the DRC for
> both x64 and ARM so there should be small improvements in the heavier games in 0.282
> again.

A 13% saved in compile time is huge for development, I can understand why you're happy with that.

Great to hear Vas is working on squeezing more performance out of the DRC. Any gains on the software side of the performance equation is only going to be multiplied by gains on the hardware side.

> I'm also happy at the recent rumors that Zen 7 is going to still be Socket AM5, so
> there's potentially a nice upgrade path all the way through 2028 with just replacing
> the CPU and maybe RAM. Zen 6 next year will bump the cores per CCD so the Ryzen 9
> parts are 24 core instead of 16, and the X3D Zen 6 parts are rumored to all have
> V-Cache on both CCDs.

I always take rumors with a small boulder sized grain of salt, AMD has been very good to the AM4 motherboard owner, and I expect a lengthy future for AM5.

The Rumors around ZEN 6 getting an IO die shrink with a much-needed memory controller refresh, make me hopeful for fast DDR5 support and the more recent rumors that IO die and CCDs will be more tightly connected with an interconnect similar to that used on Strix Halo to connect the APU die to memory dies could be a game changer for latency. Which could really bring some nice performance gains.

But we will just have to wait to see what the future brings.



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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: taz-nz]
#401179 - 10/04/25 11:49 AM


> > It compiles MAME about a minute faster than my M3 Max (7 minutes for a clean full
> > build with tools vs. 8 on my M3 Max), which is what I'm happiest about, but running
> > it really well is great too of course :-) Also Vas is continuing to tune the DRC for
> > both x64 and ARM so there should be small improvements in the heavier games in 0.282
> > again.
>
> A 13% saved in compile time is huge for development, I can understand why you're
> happy with that.
>
> Great to hear Vas is working on squeezing more performance out of the DRC. Any gains
> on the software side of the performance equation is only going to be multiplied by
> gains on the hardware side.

The ARM back-end is already executing more IR instructions per host CPU clock cycle than the x86-64 back-end, and I’ve mostly just been going for easy gains so far. (That’s part of the reason some of the MIPS, PowerPC and SuperH games do so well on ARM – the back-end is actually pretty impressive, even to me as the person who did most of the performance tuning for it.)

I know I can get quite a bit more performance out of ARM, but it requires some significant architectural changes to the back-end (won’t require changes to the emulated CPU cores themselves to benefit). The stuff I want to do can’t be done incrementally, and it’s going to require non-trivial time investment.

I optimised the Hyperstone E1 recompiler a lot already. Between that and optimising the x86-64 back-end, it now generates less than half the number of native instructions, while emulating more CPU features with more accuracy and matching the interpreter on cycle counts. There are definitely gains to be had by optimising the code generation for the other recompiling CPUs, but it isn’t a rabbit hole I want to go down right now.

On the bright side, the state the code was in at the beginning of the year meant it was relatively easy to get some significant performance gains already while also fixing a bunch of long-standing issues along the way. The trouble is I’ll inevitably run out of low-hanging fruit and have to start making bigger architectural changes to keep making progress.



taz-nz
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#401180 - 10/04/25 12:15 PM



> The ARM back-end is already executing more IR instructions per host CPU clock cycle
> than the x86-64 back-end, and I’ve mostly just been going for easy gains so far.
> (That’s part of the reason some of the MIPS, PowerPC and SuperH games do so well on
> ARM – the back-end is actually pretty impressive, even to me as the person who did
> most of the performance tuning for it.)
>
> I know I can get quite a bit more performance out of ARM, but it requires some
> significant architectural changes to the back-end (won’t require changes to the
> emulated CPU cores themselves to benefit). The stuff I want to do can’t be done
> incrementally, and it’s going to require non-trivial time investment.
>
> I optimised the Hyperstone E1 recompiler a lot already. Between that and optimising
> the x86-64 back-end, it now generates less than half the number of native
> instructions, while emulating more CPU features with more accuracy and matching the
> interpreter on cycle counts. There are definitely gains to be had by optimising the
> code generation for the other recompiling CPUs, but it isn’t a rabbit hole I want to
> go down right now.
>
> On the bright side, the state the code was in at the beginning of the year meant it
> was relatively easy to get some significant performance gains already while also
> fixing a bunch of long-standing issues along the way. The trouble is I’ll inevitably
> run out of low-hanging fruit and have to start making bigger architectural changes to
> keep making progress.

Thank you for your amazing work.

I have rough understand of how a DRC works and can only imagine the time and skill it takes to make one work so well.

I can understand you taking slow but steady approach, rather than jumping in headfirst and risking burning out.

I'm happy to see performance gains on any front, and if ARM is the way forward MAME performance, I might have to buy my first Mac since the LC 475, though Qualcomm are making a big song and dance about the new Snapdragon X2 Elite Extreme so maybe there will be a second option for a fast ARM based systems soon.

I really hope you keep going with the great work you have started, and I look forward to future developments.



John IVModerator
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Re: MAME 0.281 Icons / Snaps / Benchmarks new [Re: John IV]
#401185 - 10/04/25 04:53 PM


Stay on target people. No need to get into the old religious war. Benchmarks.

*Welp, so much for that. Thread locked, iykyk.


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