|
MAME 3D
#239843 - 11/27/10 10:45 AM
|
|
|
Just for fun, pondering on if its even possible to have a video option in MAME optimized for a 3D TV (NVIDIA 3D Vision quality, not crappy red and green glasses quality - i mean as in 3D working proper).
At a consumer trade show, i noticed basic sprites really work well, like signs on the edge of a road.
Could even have a mameworld poll on what are the best retro games of the 80's, and just add support to those sets.
Edited by zambr (11/27/10 12:27 PM)
|
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: zambr]
#239854 - 11/27/10 04:21 PM
|
|
|
> Just for fun, pondering on if its even possible to have a video option in MAME
> optimized for a 3D TV (NVIDIA 3D Vision quality, not crappy red and green glasses
> quality - i mean as in 3D working proper).
>
> At a consumer trade show, i noticed basic sprites really work well, like signs on the
> edge of a road.
>
> Could even have a mameworld poll on what are the best retro games of the 80's, and
> just add support to those sets.
Quote:
(From the About Mame Page on Mamedev.org)
MAME is strictly a non-profit project. Its main purpose is to be a reference to the inner workings of the emulated arcade machines. This is done both for educational purposes and for preservation purposes, in order to prevent many historical games from disappearing forever once the hardware they run on stops working. Of course, in order to preserve the games and demonstrate that the emulated behavior matches the original, you must also be able to actually play the games. This is considered a nice side effect, and is not MAME's primary focus.
|
"Note to Noobs:
We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.
C.D.~"
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: Master O]
#239858 - 11/27/10 06:20 PM
|
|
|
I meant it as just a technical exercise, for a few games, nothing more than that, and really just to discuss if its even possible.
This is more a future thing anyway, when everyone will eventually own 3D tech in their telly's.
Edited by zambr (11/27/10 06:22 PM)
|
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: zambr]
#239862 - 11/27/10 08:44 PM
|
|
|
> I meant it as just a technical exercise, for a few games, nothing more than that, and
> really just to discuss if its even possible.
>
> This is more a future thing anyway, when everyone will eventually own 3D tech in
> their telly's.
3D isn't doing very well atm, at this rate people will have switched over to projectors (maybe even hologram projectors) before 3D becomes commonplace in home theater setups and that will probably require a different implementation. If you used projectors you could use the same tech as theaters and not have to have powered glasses, like many current setups. That said, interfacing with a TVs 3D junk might be beyond the scope of MAME, thats more of a video card thing. Seeing as how MAME barely uses video cards at all at this point, because of all of the different types and their different ways of doing things, I can't see 3D coming anytime soon. On top of that, 3D on PCs has been around for years. I remember seeing something on ZDTV about a new video card and glasses that allowed you to play the lastest games, like Tomb Raider 2, in THREE DEE! That was over a decade ago and MAME hasn't done anything with that stuff. It never went away either, every few years something or other pops up that adds 3D to PC games, I know my current gen card has some dork feature that I never use thats supposed to do 3D.
On top of that the work you would need to do to game even a simple game running in 3D would probably be staggering. You'd need to isolate the different layers and figure out what should look flat and what should be 3D and *how* 3D it should look. It would probably be simpler to rewrite an old 2D game from scratch then to convert a driver in MAME to output a 3D image for a game that was never intended to be 3D.
Is it possible? Sure, given enough effort and skills. Is it going to happen? I doubt it. MAME Dev is a herd of cats, they work on what they want, when they want and generally then only if the payoff is worth that effort. The goal of MAME is to document games and make them playable. Networking games, even over a LAN, wouldn't require anywhere near the effort this would, yet it hasn't been done. Neither would supporting more modern video hardware features but again, its not something that has materialized. All of these things aren't required to document the game or make them playable. MAME Dev has no problem wasting your HD space, making the highest end CPUs beg for mercy or make old games look like shit on your $3,000 52 inch plasma display. If it works and its true to the original then thats probably all your ever going to see.
Lando242
|
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way.
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: Lando242]
#239863 - 11/27/10 09:25 PM
|
|
|
Before i went to the trade show i wasn't an HD fan at all, let alone bothered about 3D. I'm still not convinced HD is worth all that extra cost replacing my DVD collection, when upscaled movies still look impressive to me.
Back on 3D, i was blown away on how good it was, especially on the game demo's, racing games in particular. Simple sprites do work really well too.
I had a feeling there would be quite alot involved in converting images, but didn't realise it was that extensive.
Still, maybe one day it will catch on, with the older games being converted over sometime in the future, on the consoles maybe. The new invaders game on xbox would have been a good choice to use it, i just read a review on it, i think i might get that one anyway :P
Edited by zambr (11/27/10 09:28 PM)
|
|
|
| redk9258 |
|
Regular
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
|
Posts: 3968
|
|
Loc: Troy, Illinois USA
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: zambr]
#239866 - 11/27/10 11:37 PM
|
|
|
Here, just enjoy THIS instead.
|
|
|
| Quantum Leaper |
|
OCRer and Monkey Typist for Galaxy Game
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 03/08/04
|
|
Posts: 198
|
|
Loc: Orion spiral arm of the Milky Way
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: zambr]
#239882 - 11/28/10 05:08 AM
|
|
|
> I meant it as just a technical exercise, for a few games, nothing more than that, and
> really just to discuss if its even possible.
>
> This is more a future thing anyway, when everyone will eventually own 3D tech in
> their telly's.
3D is just a passing FAD, just like all the other this will die too.
|
|
|
| CiroConsentino |
|
Frontend freak!
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
|
Posts: 6211
|
|
Loc: Alien from Terra Prime... and Brazil
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Fever |
|
Reformed Sk3n3 Quitter
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
|
Posts: 2090
|
|
Loc: Britland
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
|
> > I meant it as just a technical exercise, for a few games, nothing more than that,
> and
> > really just to discuss if its even possible.
> >
> > This is more a future thing anyway, when everyone will eventually own 3D tech in
> > their telly's.
>
> 3D is just a passing FAD, just like all the other this will die too.
Ooh careful, that reminds me of:
"I have traveled the length and breadth of this country and talked with the
best people, and I can assure you that data processing is a fad that won't
last out the year."
The editor in charge of business books for Prentice Hall, 1957
|
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: zambr]
#239902 - 11/28/10 03:23 PM
|
|
|
> Just for fun, pondering on if its even possible to have a video option in MAME
> optimized for a 3D TV (NVIDIA 3D Vision quality, not crappy red and green glasses
> quality - i mean as in 3D working proper).
>
> At a consumer trade show, i noticed basic sprites really work well, like signs on the
> edge of a road.
>
> Could even have a mameworld poll on what are the best retro games of the 80's, and
> just add support to those sets.
This suggestion borders with high-resolution support for games (e.g. running PS1 games in ePSXe at 1920x1080 with the full enhancements that Pete's plugins are so well known for). If the original games didn't support it, the feature will never end up in MAME.
With the exception of Holosseum maybe. The other Sega game of the era was Time Traveler (laserdisc), but this game used standard 3D glasses for the effect.
|
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#239904 - 11/28/10 03:35 PM
|
|
|
> The other Sega game of the era was Time Traveler (laserdisc), but this game used standard 3D glasses for the effect.
What source say so? Time Traveler doesn't have any 3D glasses (I check Sega Arcade History published by Enterbrain)
Anyway, there is nothing you can say to some peoples who has main purpose for an emulator as "enjoy playing the game".
|
"Any company has no power to stop people emulating"
MAME is the emulator of no giving in the pressure from any company even if they don't allow
|
|
Stiletto |
|
They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 03/07/04
|
|
Posts: 6472
|
|
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: ShimaPong]
#239910 - 11/28/10 08:33 PM
|
|
|
> > The other Sega game of the era was Time Traveler (laserdisc), but this game used
> standard 3D glasses for the effect.
> What source say so? Time Traveler doesn't have any 3D glasses (I check Sega Arcade
> History published by Enterbrain)
Agreed, I've played both, and it's no real different from Time Traveler, other than being Sega System 32 instead of Laserdisc.
- Stiletto
|
|
|
|
|
> I agree. this 3D mania will die soon enough.
You all really believe that? i'm not sure about this time.
While controllers won't dissapear, motion gaming is gaining market. Someday both will merge in a new form so you don't have to stick every command to a combination of buttons. Physics is playing a more important role in videogames but it's still limited by the way controllers work. So far physics and motion controllers are limited by a layered perspective (layers between near and far) because it's hard for the player to appreciate distances over flat screens. Player will need a better appreciation of the environment and that's what stereoscopic 3D is doing. Technologies are aiming for glasses free stereoscopic 3D technology and the believed fad of motion controlling hasn't disappeared yet but has evolved instead.
Besides, stereoscopic 3D always faded away because 2D art always triumphed over really-low polygon 3D models and they were aiming for better graphics, processing and storage. Many of those elements had reached a limit they can't advance in giant steps, so it's natural for new elements to be looked for and improved. 3D stereoscopic and probably artificial intelligence are in the list.
Sure, stereoscopic 3D for low polygon models and sprites was an expensive novelty, but we're not in either 80's or 90's anymore. The future of gaming is not adding even more buttons to a controller, but to create an interface more natural to the player. It probably won't happen in the next generation, but it's probable it will in the next after.
|
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: ShimaPong]
#239918 - 11/28/10 10:46 PM
|
|
|
> > The other Sega game of the era was Time Traveler (laserdisc), but this game used
> standard 3D glasses for the effect.
> What source say so? Time Traveler doesn't have any 3D glasses (I check Sega Arcade
> History published by Enterbrain)
>
> Anyway, there is nothing you can say to some peoples who has main purpose for an
> emulator as "enjoy playing the game".
I stand corrected, my (second) quick skim through the Wikipedia entry shows the 3D glasses came with a DVD version of the game.
|
|
|
| Mr. Do |
|
MAME Art Editor
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
|
Posts: 4860
|
|
Loc: California
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: ShimaPong]
#239920 - 11/28/10 11:47 PM
|
|
|
> Anyway, there is nothing you can say to some peoples who has main purpose for an
> emulator as "enjoy playing the game".
There is nothing you can say to some peoples who has main purpose for an emulator as "look what I can do that you can't do."
|
RELAX and just have fun. Remember, it's all about the games.
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: Lando242]
#239926 - 11/29/10 01:06 AM
|
|
|
> You'd need to isolate the different layers and figure
> out what should look flat and what should be 3D and *how* 3D it should look. It would
> probably be simpler to rewrite an old 2D game from scratch then to convert a driver
> in MAME to output a 3D image for a game that was never intended to be 3D.
Not quite true, consoles and systems intended for 2D manage layers to display what goes front (sprite layers) and what goes back (background layers). That was exactly what made Nebula to display alpha blending in a system it was not intended to work like that. Just as you can disable/enable layers in any other emulator different from MAME, you could set a deep and effect for any layer (also any tile) as happened in Nebula.
Have said that and as you said, it's unlikely that will happen in MAME. But it's possible for any other emulator to write an alternate output without the need to rewrite a game.
|
|
|
| R. Belmont |
|
Cuckoo for IGAvania
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
|
Posts: 9711
|
|
Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: zambr]
#239959 - 11/29/10 04:01 PM
|
|
|
3D works very, very well on the Nintendo 3DS (for everyone who hasn't yet gotten to see one in person: yes, it's really that good and it should sell like crazy). I don't see 3D being as big in a glasses-required situation.
|
|
|
| Fever |
|
Reformed Sk3n3 Quitter
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
|
Posts: 2090
|
|
Loc: Britland
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: Stiletto]
#239971 - 11/29/10 09:31 PM
|
|
|
> > > The other Sega game of the era was Time Traveler (laserdisc), but this game used
> > standard 3D glasses for the effect.
> > What source say so? Time Traveler doesn't have any 3D glasses (I check Sega Arcade
> > History published by Enterbrain)
>
> Agreed, I've played both, and it's no real different from Time Traveler, other than
> being Sega System 32 instead of Laserdisc.
>
> - Stiletto
Continental Circus had a 3D glasses option in the arcade though, and Sub-Roc 3D too, I believe
|
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: R. Belmont]
#239986 - 11/30/10 02:06 AM
|
|
|
3DS sounds interesting.
I remember as a kid, when my parents brought me the sega master system, i saw a leaflet that came with it advertising 3d glasses, did anyone ever try it?
italie: is that sexy pic from the SMS ?
Edited by zambr (11/30/10 02:44 AM)
|
|
|
| italie |
|
MAME owes italie many thank yous, hah
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/20/03
|
|
Posts: 15243
|
|
Loc: BoomTown
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: zambr]
#239988 - 11/30/10 02:21 AM
|
|
|
> Could even have a mameworld poll on what are the best retro games of the 80's, and
> just add support to those sets.
|
|
|
| jazzx |
|
JazzX-Arcade
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 11/26/05
|
|
Posts: 13
|
|
Loc: Cambridge, UK
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: zambr]
#239993 - 11/30/10 04:24 AM
|
|
|
Here's a question:
Does anyone know where I could get a pair of glasses that would work for Continental Circus (3d mode)?
This was an F1 driving game in the late 80s that you looked through some stereo goggles to achieve the 3d effect. It was pretty convincing!
|
HADOOOOKEN!
|
|
| Mr. Do |
|
MAME Art Editor
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
|
Posts: 4860
|
|
Loc: California
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: italie]
#239994 - 11/30/10 04:37 AM
|
|
|
> > Could even have a mameworld poll on what are the best retro games of the 80's, and
> > just add support to those sets.
I call...
|
|
|
| Mr. Do |
|
MAME Art Editor
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
|
Posts: 4860
|
|
Loc: California
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: Mr. Do]
#239995 - 11/30/10 04:38 AM
|
|
|
>
> I call...
And raise you...
|
|
|
| italie |
|
MAME owes italie many thank yous, hah
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/20/03
|
|
Posts: 15243
|
|
Loc: BoomTown
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: Mr. Do]
#239996 - 11/30/10 05:00 AM
|
|
|
> >
> > I call...
>
>
> And raise you...
Kold Fold.
|
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: Fever]
#240619 - 12/07/10 06:48 PM
|
|
|
I love of games, to the original version.
3-d version had some of the arcade games. ( for example: Continental Circus)
sega Master system console, had to 3-d glasses.
and This 3-D glasses, very similar to 3-D glasses of the arcade systems.
we can find these 3-D glasses of sega master system, places such as ebay sites.
|
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: zambr]
#240620 - 12/07/10 06:50 PM
|
|
|
I love of games, to the original version.
3-d version had some of the arcade games. ( for example: Continental Circus)
sega Master system console, had to 3-d glasses.
and This 3-D glasses, very similar to 3-D glasses of the arcade systems.
we can find these 3-D glasses of sega master system, places such as ebay sites.
|
|
|
| R. Belmont |
|
Cuckoo for IGAvania
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
|
Posts: 9711
|
|
Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: jazzx]
#240626 - 12/07/10 08:35 PM
|
|
|
> Does anyone know where I could get a pair of glasses that would work for Continental
> Circus (3d mode)?
The actual machine, or the emulation? I would think those are gonna be two pretty different things if it's not simple red/blue.
> This was an F1 driving game in the late 80s that you looked through some stereo
> goggles to achieve the 3d effect. It was pretty convincing!
Actual two-screen stereo goggles? What game?
|
|
|
| jazzx |
|
JazzX-Arcade
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 11/26/05
|
|
Posts: 13
|
|
Loc: Cambridge, UK
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: MAME 3D
[Re: R. Belmont]
#240635 - 12/07/10 10:06 PM
|
|
|
> > Does anyone know where I could get a pair of glasses that would work for
> Continental
> > Circus (3d mode)?
>
> The actual machine, or the emulation? I would think those are gonna be two pretty
> different things if it's not simple red/blue.
>
> > This was an F1 driving game in the late 80s that you looked through some stereo
> > goggles to achieve the 3d effect. It was pretty convincing!
>
> Actual two-screen stereo goggles? What game?
It's Continental Circus - it only used one screen, a standard monitor. If you don't use the glasses, it's as if two slightly different images are projected on top of each other. But when you looked through the glasses, the images became one in a convincing 3-D effect (and no, it wasn't a two-colour setup as far as I remember).
|
|
|
Index 
Threaded 
MAME 3D
Reply
[Re: 
