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Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
#240333 - 12/04/10 02:33 AM
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Both Linux and MAME are Open Source software, they're like 2 brothers.
Linux is more open than windows, supporting more hardware system(PS3, for example). It's a better choice of "standard platform" for an educational-purpose, non-profit, and portable project as MAME.
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LOL [nt]
[Re: Naibo]
#240334 - 12/04/10 02:41 AM
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> Both Linux and MAME are Open Source software, they're like 2 brothers.
>
> Linux is more open than windows, supporting more hardware system(PS3, for example).
> It's a better choice of "standard platform" for an educational-purpose, non-profit,
> and portable project as MAME.
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Re: LOL [nt]
[Re: abelenki]
#240337 - 12/04/10 02:55 AM
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Maybe the Mame Devs likes crappy slow bloat. Having MAME run native in a free contained OS sounds perfectly logical to me.
Does it really matter if Mame runs on Microsoft code? The emulator is not really intended for M$ consumer use, is it?
Edited by Bizimonki (12/04/10 02:56 AM)
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Re: LOL [nt]
[Re: ]
#240338 - 12/04/10 03:07 AM
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> Does it really matter if Mame runs on Microsoft code? The emulator is not really
> intended for M$ consumer use, is it?
i can see only one problem - no one uses Linux...
on the other note, i don't really care what would be default platform, 'cause i compile MAME myself.
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| redk9258 |
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: Naibo]
#240339 - 12/04/10 03:10 AM
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Why not just have MAME be the OS. Your computer could only do one function.. run MAME.
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| casm |
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: Naibo]
#240344 - 12/04/10 05:05 AM
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> Both Linux and MAME are Open Source software, they're like 2 brothers.
You are aware that MAME and Linux are released under very different licences, right? Other than the obvious differences in function, this makes for a good argument that they are in very few ways related.
> Linux is more open than windows, supporting more hardware system(PS3, for example).
The PS3 is a bad example, particularly since firmware 3.21 came out for it a few months ago: that version effectively killed Linux support on the PS3. Sure, you can run firmware 3.20 (or lower) and keep your YDL install - but kiss goodbye to the Store, online gaming, and a good chunk of Blu-Ray functionality amongst other things. Oh, and not to mention that Linux ran like crap on it even when doing so was a reasonable possibility - the lack of access to the RSX didn't give it much in the way of horsepower.
> It's a better choice of "standard platform" for an educational-purpose, non-profit,
> and portable project as MAME.
I'd ask how you came to this conclusion, but I'm afraid you'd give me an answer.
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: Naibo]
#240345 - 12/04/10 05:31 AM
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Because Linux is for evil communists and windows is for christians.
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: redk9258]
#240349 - 12/04/10 05:56 AM
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> Why not just have MAME be the OS. Your computer could only do one function.. run
> MAME.
By building a "customizd" Linux, with MAME integrated, one can get much higher performance & easy of use, dev, and debug...
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| redk9258 |
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: Naibo]
#240354 - 12/04/10 07:16 AM
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I didn't mean integrate into Linux, but rather have MAMEOS.
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| DMala |
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: Naibo]
#240357 - 12/04/10 07:28 AM
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> Both Linux and MAME are Open Source software, they're like 2 brothers.
>
> Linux is more open than windows, supporting more hardware system(PS3, for example).
> It's a better choice of "standard platform" for an educational-purpose, non-profit,
> and portable project as MAME.
MAME is already platform agnostic, the SDL components were integrated a few versions ago. You can get the regular MAME source, build on Linux, and it just works with no modifications. What more do you need? Sure, MAMEDev still distribute Windows binaries, but that's how it's done on the Windows platform. Your typical Windows user is far less likely to be comfortable around a compiler.
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lot of inaccuracies...
[Re: Naibo]
#240362 - 12/04/10 08:38 AM
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> Both Linux and MAME are Open Source software, they're like 2 brothers.
>
MAME is not Open Source at all, no matter which of the available definitions you choose. it is source available and it is distributed with a BSD-like license without commercial use permission: neither of these means Open Source
> Linux is more open than windows, supporting more hardware system (PS3, for example).
and indeed the MAME source from mamedev.org builds out-of-the-box for Linux, PS3 Yellow Dog, FreeBSD, MacOSX, OS2[*] (simply type make and the makefile will identify the correct OS to build). there is a osd/sdl/ directory exactly for that reason.
> It's a better choice of "standard platform" for an educational-purpose, non-profit,
> and portable project as MAME.
except the main developer uses Windows as OS and therefore he has no interest to shift the focus on a different default platform. given that he is always very careful not to break anything on other OSes, I think there would be no real gain in changing default OS...
[*] not 100% sure about OS2 with latest versions, since the guy mainly using it hasn't showed up for a while
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: Naibo]
#240368 - 12/04/10 10:52 AM
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For the same reason that about 80% of computer users are on some sort of Windows NT-based system with the OS dated somewhere between 2002 and 2010. Windows also doesn't dump you to a non-graphical terminal shell just because some random poorly programmed but apparently popular app (due to being no other alternative on the OS, or the good old KDE/Gnome wars where apps only work on one but not the other) fails to run after simply changing settings in its own GUI. The random BSOD days disappeared along with Windows Me; any NT-based hard crashes are usually caused by hardware failures (including memory) or viruses (being fair though, which are much more uncommon on Linux since there are less clueless users who will simply click anything that looks 'cute', re. BonziBuddy, and the fact that randomboobznpussy.avi.exe (with an AVI icon and the extension hidden by default Explorer) won't run natively under Linux anyway).
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| Sune |
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: Naibo]
#240373 - 12/04/10 02:12 PM
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Because Windows doesn't ask you for an administrator password when you want to change your screen resolution.
S
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: Sune]
#240386 - 12/04/10 04:58 PM
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> Because Windows doesn't ask you for an administrator password when you want to change
> your screen resolution.
Neither does SDLMAME on Linux. I knew this thread would be an ignorance magnet, but holy fucking shit.
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: Naibo]
#240387 - 12/04/10 05:10 PM
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Because the project leader works for Microsoft?
MAME is neither Open Source™ nor "open source" in the generic sense. Binaries of true F/OSS projects can be sold. MAME cannot - it is actually more Communist than Richard Stallman.
PS3 is no longer supported, as has been noted (PowerPC Mac OS X still is through at least next year though). And actually a fair amount of development on MAME/MESS is on osd/sdl platforms (Linux, BSD, and the Mac) these days. The increasing non-USness of the development team (as well as the increasing probability of a U release in which I add a lot of Naomi games and nothing else happens) largely guarantees that.
That all said, there effectively is no default platform for MAME since 0.138 and you can compile on any supported OS with the main source package. MAMEdev is all about not restricting people's choices (aside from, you know, the whole selling MAME thing).
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| CiroConsentino |
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: Naibo]
#240404 - 12/04/10 09:04 PM
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sorry to say this but Linux is a horrible OS for home computers.
and the the last build I've tested earlier this year (with the 3D accelerated interface), it was a lot slower than Windows 7.
full of bugs and a nightmare to setup.
Linux is for servers, nothing more.
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: Naibo]
#240408 - 12/04/10 09:18 PM Attachment: linux.jpg 30 KB (2 downloads)
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[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#240411 - 12/04/10 09:45 PM
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> sorry to say this but Linux is a horrible OS for home computers.
> and the the last build I've tested earlier this year (with the 3D accelerated
> interface), it was a lot slower than Windows 7.
> full of bugs and a nightmare to setup.
>
> Linux is for servers, nothing more.
I strongly detest that summary. Of course, if you are technically inept with computers like 80% of the MW regulars, you're better off using an iPad anyway.
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: CrapBoardSoftware]
#240414 - 12/04/10 10:01 PM
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> > sorry to say this but Linux is a horrible OS for home computers.
> > and the the last build I've tested earlier this year (with the 3D accelerated
> > interface), it was a lot slower than Windows 7.
> > full of bugs and a nightmare to setup.
> >
> > Linux is for servers, nothing more.
>
> I strongly detest that summary. Of course, if you are technically inept with
> computers like 80% of the MW regulars, you're better off using an iPad anyway.
What he said doesn't make sense even for a non technical guy, it's been a while since most major Linux distros are very easy to install and very usable for a broad majority of users. I'm not saying it doesn't have any flaws thou...
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: franciscohs]
#240417 - 12/04/10 10:34 PM
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> > > sorry to say this but Linux is a horrible OS for home computers.
> > > and the the last build I've tested earlier this year (with the 3D accelerated
> > > interface), it was a lot slower than Windows 7.
> > > full of bugs and a nightmare to setup.
> > >
> > > Linux is for servers, nothing more.
> >
> > I strongly detest that summary. Of course, if you are technically inept with
> > computers like 80% of the MW regulars, you're better off using an iPad anyway.
>
> What he said doesn't make sense even for a non technical guy, it's been a while since
> most major Linux distros are very easy to install and very usable for a broad
> majority of users. I'm not saying it doesn't have any flaws thou...
Yep. I did not even mention the difference between Linux DISTRIBUTIONS. I like sidux and Maemo on my mobile computer, but i will probably never touch Ubuntu again if i don't absolutely have to because of their fuckups. Anyway, the thing is most people are used to "the Windows way" so that they would not notice the flaws/annoyances of this particular platform, but will see flaws on other platforms because the handling is different anyway.
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| DMala |
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Sleep is overrated
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: franciscohs]
#240420 - 12/04/10 11:26 PM
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> > > sorry to say this but Linux is a horrible OS for home computers.
> > > and the the last build I've tested earlier this year (with the 3D accelerated
> > > interface), it was a lot slower than Windows 7.
> > > full of bugs and a nightmare to setup.
> > >
> > > Linux is for servers, nothing more.
> >
> > I strongly detest that summary. Of course, if you are technically inept with
> > computers like 80% of the MW regulars, you're better off using an iPad anyway.
>
> What he said doesn't make sense even for a non technical guy, it's been a while since
> most major Linux distros are very easy to install and very usable for a broad
> majority of users. I'm not saying it doesn't have any flaws thou...
I used Fedora on my MAME system for about six months, and I've also used Ubuntu and other distros at various times. My experience was that installation and basic setup was fairly straightforward, as was basic Internet, e-mail, and office-type usage. As soon as I tried to go beyond basic usage, however, things would quickly devolve into hours of tweaking conf files and hunting in Google for solutions to strange problems. In the end, I could generally get things working the way I wanted, but I found myself spending more time wrestling with the OS and setup than I did actually doing the things I set the machine up to do.
To say that Linux is for servers and nothing more is pretty extreme and basically not true. It still has a long way to go, however, before there is any hope of mainstream acceptance among home users.
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: DMala]
#240422 - 12/04/10 11:38 PM
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> To say that Linux is for servers and nothing more is pretty extreme and basically not
> true. It still has a long way to go, however, before there is any hope of mainstream
> acceptance among home users.
Hmm. But if mainstream acceptance means loosing some/most of the pros and especially the flexibility/configurability, i could disclaim it.
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: redk9258]
#240423 - 12/04/10 11:46 PM
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Better still why not contact our old buddy Mr. Foley. I'm sure his Joshua OS would fit the bill perfectly.
Wasn't Joshua just a derivative of DOS + Mame?
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: ]
#240426 - 12/05/10 12:49 AM
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> Better still why not contact our old buddy Mr. Foley. I'm sure his Joshua OS would
> fit the bill perfectly.
>
> Wasn't Joshua just a derivative of DOS + Mame?
Joshua is a fully custom OS that only can run on machines with Intel 810 chipsets. It's not DOS compatble, and it remains to be seen if Retrocade is actually MAME.
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| Sune |
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#240449 - 12/05/10 07:34 AM
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> > Because Windows doesn't ask you for an administrator password when you want to
> change
> > your screen resolution.
>
> Neither does SDLMAME on Linux. I knew this thread would be an ignorance magnet, but
> holy fucking shit.
Well fuck you too.
Do you think I made that up so that you could come here and call me ignorant? It happened.
I installed the nvidia driver and couldn't change resolution. That is, I could not save the configuration file after making changes.
I had to save the configuration file somewhere else, open the original one at its default location in some folder with restricted access as super user, then copy and paste in the changes.
S
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: DMala]
#240456 - 12/05/10 09:48 AM
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> As
> soon as I tried to go beyond basic usage, however, things would quickly devolve into
> hours of tweaking conf files and hunting in Google for solutions to strange problems.
> In the end, I could generally get things working the way I wanted, but I found myself
> spending more time wrestling with the OS and setup than I did actually doing the
> things I set the machine up to do.
>
erm... the real question is: would a Windows machine have allowed for the same custom settings? if not, it means that under Windows you would have had to give up, while under Linux you *only* had to wrestle for some times with the OS 
not that I'm a great Unix fan, but it has pros and cons as any other OS...
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| gregf |
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: Smitdogg]
#240458 - 12/05/10 10:54 AM
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Heh. Dragging out the old-time, Loony Bin "poke fun at Linux geek users/Linux-bashing" image once again. Fazeo would applaud you if he were still around.
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: DMala]
#240471 - 12/05/10 06:03 PM
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I made the sometimes-painful switch to Linux earlier this year. I actually believe it IS ready for desktop usage, but one major problem is non-standardized behavior, which makes bug tracking difficult.
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| CiroConsentino |
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Frontend freak!
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: CrapBoardSoftware]
#240522 - 12/06/10 01:08 PM
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I work in the computer business for the past 17 years. I even used the MacOS a couple times.
and I'm telling you... Linux is not user friendly.
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Ciro Alfredo Consentino
home: http://emuloader.mameworld.info
e-mail: ciroconsentino@gmail.com
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#240523 - 12/06/10 04:12 PM
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> I work in the computer business for the past 17 years. I even used the MacOS a couple
> times.
> and I'm telling you... Linux is not user friendly.
Yeah, but honestly (no offense!) after reading some of your questions etc. for the past months, i'm not so sure that i can count you under category "experienced" in that sector. Especially after you mentioned MacOS Apple products are knowingly made for the technically inept, where things should go easy.
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: Karasu]
#240524 - 12/06/10 04:13 PM
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> I made the sometimes-painful switch to Linux earlier this year. I actually believe it
> IS ready for desktop usage, but one major problem is non-standardized behavior, which
> makes bug tracking difficult.
Good response. Almost each distribution has it's own little learning curve, true that.
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| Naoki |
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#240537 - 12/06/10 08:11 PM
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Yeah. I only use Linux for the rare times my PC dies.
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----
On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2
By gods I've found it!
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| casm |
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Cinematronics > *
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: CrapBoardSoftware]
#240568 - 12/06/10 11:52 PM
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> Apple products are knowingly made
> for the technically inept, where things should go easy.
I strongly detest that summary. Of course, if you are technically-ignorant of how OS X actually works, you'll never find /bin/bash after sitting down in front of it.
This entire thread is a gigantic pile of failure.
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: casm]
#240574 - 12/07/10 02:33 AM
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> > Apple products are knowingly made
> > for the technically inept, where things should go easy.
>
> I strongly detest that summary. Of course, if you are technically-ignorant of how OS
> X actually works, you'll never find /bin/bash after sitting down in front of it.
>
> This entire thread is a gigantic pile of failure.
Agreed, but...
Bash in daily use in 2010, with no graphical alternative for most apps. Enough said. If Apple can 'hide' the Unix commands and text shell behind its own graphical interface, why can't the GNU/Linux guys do the same? Even mobile phones have gone from a 7 segment calculator display in the 80s to a full-on computer screen. Linux would only be viable in the mainstream world if Microsoft had kept updating Windows 3.x and DOS with no thought of the future. Windows 3.0 turned 20 six months ago. Lose the legacy crap and Linux will be revitalised; we aren't using green screen 8086 terminals any more.
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#240599 - 12/07/10 10:38 AM
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> > > Apple products are knowingly made
> > > for the technically inept, where things should go easy.
> >
> > I strongly detest that summary. Of course, if you are technically-ignorant of how
> OS
> > X actually works, you'll never find /bin/bash after sitting down in front of it.
> >
> > This entire thread is a gigantic pile of failure.
>
> Agreed, but...
>
> Bash in daily use in 2010, with no graphical alternative for most apps. Enough said.
> If Apple can 'hide' the Unix commands and text shell behind its own graphical
> interface, why can't the GNU/Linux guys do the same? Even mobile phones have gone
> from a 7 segment calculator display in the 80s to a full-on computer screen. Linux
> would only be viable in the mainstream world if Microsoft had kept updating Windows
> 3.x and DOS with no thought of the future. Windows 3.0 turned 20 six months ago. Lose
> the legacy crap and Linux will be revitalised; we aren't using green screen 8086
> terminals any more.
Huh? What have you tried? Embedded distros with BusyBox only? What was the last installation you tried? Maybe you should get away from Ubuntu and it's quirks, then you would realize that there are way fewer issues with Linux on the desktop than you think. Btw, - "If Apple can 'hide' the Unix commands and text shell behind its own graphical interface, why can't the GNU/Linux guys do the same?" what sense makes this? And why should we do it? If you like shiny expensive toys with high WAF and simplicity, buy Apple. I like my xterminal+bash, thank you. (KDE >=4.1 & IceBox too).
This thread is failure, i agree. Almost everything i'm reading here convinces me even more that, besides the likes of RB and some other guys who had proven, most of you actually act like just a little bit beyond 'power users'.
So, back for testing the new IDS 3.80 driver...
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: Naibo]
#240607 - 12/07/10 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Both Linux and MAME are Open Source software, they're like 2 brothers.
Linux is more open than windows, supporting more hardware system(PS3, for example). It's a better choice of "standard platform" for an educational-purpose, non-profit, and portable project as MAME.
Because Linux is not an operating system. Operating systems that are using Linux as the kernel are thousands in number which are almost impossible to target and would be a deployment nightmare. Hence distributing a single binary that works everywhere is close to impossible. That's why the best model is to distribute source which is what MAME did the last time I checked.
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: CrapBoardSoftware]
#240616 - 12/07/10 06:03 PM
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> This thread is failure, i agree. Almost everything i'm reading here convinces me even
> more that, besides the likes of RB and some other guys who had proven, most of you
> actually act like just a little bit beyond 'power users'.
Your proof is self proclaiming. Linux is good because it's used by people you respect, which is only Linux users.
I do find it weird that some people still get so religious about their operating systems.
Maybe it would have succeeded on the desktop if there was more progress and less lol micro$oft suckz.
Edited by smf (12/07/10 06:03 PM)
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: ]
#240624 - 12/07/10 07:44 PM
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> Your proof is self proclaiming. Linux is good because it's used by people you
> respect, which is only Linux users.
>
> I do find it weird that some people still get so religious about their operating
> systems.
>
> Maybe it would have succeeded on the desktop if there was more progress and less lol
> micro$oft suckz.
Agree. It's not so much any OS is bad, any of them have it's flaws and field uses. It's more its users who work as supporters make the experience a bad one. Here we have an example about how elitists Linux users tend to be (as if i were mentioning how 'special' Mac users feel because 'they have no viruses' and use 'hip' computers). Not everyone wants to read walls of unnecessary text by default, for that we have something called --verbose parameter. There's also the .log alternative. If it works and makes its function, there's no need to flood a screen unless desired . But it doesn't because it works differently depending on user environments and distros. I want to run a program and make use of its utility, not planning on debugging the damn thing in order to make it work. Linux would succeed in desktops if they could cut out their egos to less than 4 distros and hear what other users have to say instead of only shut in their shells (not pun intended).
For the record, i love command line applications and batch files. But Linux use to be too much of anything.
Point apart, some statistics about OS usage from two different sources:
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: ]
#240628 - 12/07/10 08:51 PM
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> Maybe it would have succeeded on the desktop if there was more progress and less lol micro$oft suckz.
And a Linux-only killer app would help tremendously. (I would not consider the low price a killer app.) DOS had Lotus 1-2-3, WordPerfect, etc. Windows 3.x had Microsoft Office (Word, Excel, Access), Visual Basic, etc.
Kevin Eshbach
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: ]
#240644 - 12/07/10 11:52 PM
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Guess what? I like Win 7, too. That's the OS i use mostly, because it's running on my main machine@home and that one is running at least half the day. Previous was 95 up to XP, but 7 is the only decent version for me. Linux-based stuff is also used daily (on the phone and @work). And now? There was basically one thing i cannot stand, and thats' the usual muttering of "Linux is only usable on servers, and not ready for the desktop." That can only come from.. you know whom.
(Btw.: the "people i respect" also use MacOS, so your arguing was a little bit flawed)
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: keshbach1]
#240652 - 12/08/10 02:15 AM
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> And a Linux-only killer app would help tremendously. (I would not consider the low
> price a killer app.) DOS had Lotus 1-2-3, WordPerfect, etc. Windows 3.x had Microsoft
> Office (Word, Excel, Access), Visual Basic, etc.
>
>
> Kevin Eshbach
A near perfect "SEGA Model-3 Emulator" for Linux?
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| casm |
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Cinematronics > *
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Reged: 08/27/07
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: keshbach1]
#240662 - 12/08/10 05:57 AM
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> And a Linux-only killer app would help tremendously. (I would not consider the low
> price a killer app.) DOS had Lotus 1-2-3, WordPerfect, etc. Windows 3.x had Microsoft
> Office (Word, Excel, Access), Visual Basic, etc.
Funnily enough, this is a large part of the reason I use OSX: it's the one platform where all of the *nix-based tools I use are available, plus a real copy of Microsoft Office.
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| Naoki |
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Reged: 11/10/09
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Posts: 1998
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: Naibo]
#240670 - 12/08/10 11:17 AM
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Heck I hate Linux but if there was a model 3 emulator, oh hell would I start using it XP
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----
On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2
By gods I've found it!
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Re: Why not move to Linux as the default platform for MAME?
[Re: Naibo]
#240711 - 12/08/10 10:15 PM
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> > Why not just have MAME be the OS. Your computer could only do one function.. run
> > MAME.
>
> By building a "customizd" Linux, with MAME integrated, one can get much higher
> performance & easy of use, dev, and debug...
It was called Lincade, yo.
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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