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Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
#243392 - 01/11/11 01:08 PM
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I noticed there are a few games (listed in topic title) that have slow joystick response, or non at all at times. I can play other games just fine, but alien syndrome has slow response to commands. I push to the left, and there is a second or two delay, even when firing. Ghosts n goblins on the other hand, starts off ok, but after moving a few times, he doesn't seem to want to move to the left...it just seems quirky to me...any ideas?
Thanks!
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: fabianscorpio]
#243400 - 01/11/11 04:01 PM
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Use some clone MAME with hacking frame buffer to resolve delay response.
http://mame32fx.altervista.org/
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"Any company has no power to stop people emulating"
MAME is the emulator of no giving in the pressure from any company even if they don't allow
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: ShimaPong]
#243421 - 01/11/11 07:29 PM
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> Use some clone MAME with hacking frame buffer to resolve delay response.
>
> http://mame32fx.altervista.org/
What a stupid answer. There's no a feature like this in MAMEUIFX. If you don't know what are you talking about, please be silent.
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: Mamesick]
#243440 - 01/11/11 11:47 PM
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I'm running XP prof with MAME32 .9 I believe...9 something. I know it's an older version but this is what works for me.  I honestly haven't tried the new version...
P4 2.6mhz 1.5 gb RAM...256 video, diamond sound card...
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: fabianscorpio]
#243443 - 01/12/11 01:17 AM
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That's why I stick with older releases like .84
The new releases have more lag in the older games.
Bloat = lag.
No problems here stock P3 64mb PCI 1024K VGA. Like classics? Stick with the tried and tested. 
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: ]
#243445 - 01/12/11 01:47 AM
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> Bloat = lag.
If by bloat you mean improved and more accurate emulation then you would be correct. Remember, the MAME Team can waste your hard drive space and CPU clock-cycles with impunity as long as they are using those resources to produce a more complete emulation and documentation of the hardware.
Lando242
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| Naoki |
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: Lando242]
#243479 - 01/12/11 01:28 PM
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Even so that just slows the whole game down, not the input lags except for regressions maybe.
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On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2
By gods I've found it!
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: Naoki]
#243482 - 01/12/11 01:52 PM
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> Even so that just slows the whole game down, not the input lags except for
> regressions maybe.
All I can say about that is I haven't been able to reproduce his problem. So its either a problem with the way he has MAME setup or his system, not MAME itself.
Lando242
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How to Ask Questions the Smart Way.
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: Lando242]
#243485 - 01/12/11 03:12 PM
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> > Even so that just slows the whole game down, not the input lags except for
> > regressions maybe.
>
> All I can say about that is I haven't been able to reproduce his problem. So its
> either a problem with the way he has MAME setup or his system, not MAME itself.
>
> Lando242
Same. Expecting active diagnostic support for a 6+ year old version of MAME is quite frankly, unrealistic. The core input routines have been redone so many times now that it's impossible to judge potentially OLD problems.
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: Mamesick]
#243494 - 01/12/11 04:46 PM
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I wonder that you have not still supported this hack. It looks very good hack for your hack MAME. Luckily, it is NOT closed-source and you can copy-and-paste easily.
So... in passing, your hack MAME should support fziidx and sample musics for Toa-plan ripped from OST.
Your hack MAME will become history in the view of supported high-score yet and hackish MAME official team approved.
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"Any company has no power to stop people emulating"
MAME is the emulator of no giving in the pressure from any company even if they don't allow
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: ]
#243503 - 01/12/11 05:51 PM
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> The new releases have more lag in the older games.
>
> Bloat = lag.
Bullshit. On any OS we support MAME on (which for the moment still includes XP), only the parts of MAME that emulate the game you're currently playing get loaded off the disk. So the footprint for a given game doesn't change unless there's a drastic change to the driver itself (e.g. DRCing the CPU).
And even if your system were running out of memory, the entire emulation would slow down, at which point input lag is irrelevant. There is no instance in which progress on MAME can impact input lag (which IMO is largely psychosomatic anyway - nobody ever claimed there was any until some nutjob started whipping people up on the Shmups forum).
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: fabianscorpio]
#243504 - 01/12/11 06:02 PM
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> I noticed there are a few games (listed in topic title) that have slow joystick
> response, or non at all at times. I can play other games just fine, but alien
> syndrome has slow response to commands. I push to the left, and there is a second or
> two delay, even when firing. Ghosts n goblins on the other hand, starts off ok, but
> after moving a few times, he doesn't seem to want to move to the left...it just seems
> quirky to me...any ideas?
>
> Thanks!
I had a problem like that before, i stopped updating MAME because of the lag input. Games started fine, then after a few seconds controls sticked to one position and new input changes worked after 2-10 seconds later. Then one day discovered it was my own fault by playing with the audio_latency value set to max. You could try setting the value to 1 or 2 (default).
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: ShimaPong]
#243505 - 01/12/11 06:16 PM
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> I wonder that you have not still supported this hack. It looks very good hack for
> your hack MAME. Luckily, it is NOT closed-source and you can copy-and-paste easily.
> So... in passing, your hack MAME should support fziidx and sample musics for Toa-plan
> ripped from OST.
>
> Your hack MAME will become history in the view of supported high-score yet and
> hackish MAME official team approved.
Fuck off and die, ShitPong. You're too stupid for my IQ.
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: ]
#243509 - 01/12/11 07:10 PM
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your missing out on "lazy refresh" which gives u the benefits of vsync without the ridiculous input lag.
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: Tafoid]
#243514 - 01/12/11 07:53 PM
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No big deal guys, really. I thought by now this question/issue had been asked before, and perhaps it was a simple fix. I'll fool around with the ingame options, mame32 ini, etc...I'll be sure to post the 'fix'.
Later!
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: Lando242]
#243538 - 01/13/11 12:50 AM
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No I mean that the same game running on .84 is totally unplayable in the present incarnation. Which brings me back to one good question? Why do we need a dual core 64 bit OS to get good FPS when a p3 did the same job for classic games?
You guys not into the optimizing business I guess, or is it more hacks now, as the core programmers are shrinking in numbers?
I'm not complaining really, just found it odd that I had lag playing on a such an old title(s). I thought you guys were breaking things again for a laugh, as you do.
I thought maybe Aaron picked up some bad habits at Microsoft with regards to adding in the bloat. 
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| AWJ |
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: ]
#243539 - 01/13/11 12:53 AM
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> No I mean that the same game running on .84 is totally unplayable in the present
> incarnation. Which brings me back to one good question? Why do we need a dual core 64
> bit OS to get good FPS when a p3 did the same job for classic games?
You're not paying attention to the thread. The symptoms the OP is describing are not caused by insufficient CPU power. Something's wrong with his system (e.g. drivers) or with his MAME configuration. BIOS-D has posted one possible diagnosis.
Edited by AWJ (01/13/11 12:56 AM)
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: ]
#243540 - 01/13/11 01:03 AM
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> No I mean that the same game running on .84 is totally unplayable in the present
> incarnation. Which brings me back to one good question? Why do we need a dual core 64
> bit OS to get good FPS when a p3 did the same job for classic games?
>
> You guys not into the optimizing business I guess, or is it more hacks now, as the
> core programmers are shrinking in numbers?
>
erm... usually hacks are what makes emulation faster, not slower...
also which game is now unplayable compared to 0.84? is it possibly one of those classic games like dkong which got incorrect samples replaced by real, full featured, accurately emulated (and therefore much heavier) sound? other than those I cannot imagine any other game that can be become unplayable in the past few years...
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: ]
#243548 - 01/13/11 02:22 AM
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> No I mean that the same game running on .84 is totally unplayable in the present
> incarnation.
Name one game that was fully emulated in .84 that has since become "unplayable" because of "bloat." Bloat of course being something inconsequential to the emulation of the game itself, like the artwork system, high score saving, etc, not correct sound emulation or some such.
>Which brings me back to one good question? Why do we need a dual core 64
> bit OS to get good FPS when a p3 did the same job for classic games?
So you are upset that you can't use an 11 year old processor in MAME anymore? Really? Do you also lament the dropping of DOS support? I haven't seen a PIII sold in stores since like 2002, where would you even find one? Why would you even want too? You can get much newer chips for under $50 these days. Even so, what games made before 1985 have speed issues? Baring LD games or maybe I, Robot or some other game with crazy hardware I can't think of any that should be having problems even on your antique system. CPU age is like dog years; by my calculations your system is around 55-75 years old.
> You guys not into the optimizing business I guess, or is it more hacks now, as the
> core programmers are shrinking in numbers?
Hacks make things faster, not slower, mate.
> I'm not complaining really, just found it odd that I had lag playing on a such an old
> title(s).
Again, what titles? Are you trying to run the game in a crazy resolution or with artwork or what?
> I thought maybe Aaron picked up some bad habits at Microsoft with regards to adding
> in the bloat.
And what is this bloat you keep talking about? What bloat feature is slowing down your system? You talk about all these games that are slow and all these features that are causing issues on your Clinton Era machine yet you never mention specifics. We can't help you fix your problems if you don't tell us what the problem is.
Lando242
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How to Ask Questions the Smart Way.
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: BIOS-D]
#243553 - 01/13/11 02:47 AM
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I'll try adjusting the audio for those 2 games. Other games work fine, it's just those 2 (that I noticed so far) that act goofy.
Thanks.
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: etabeta]
#243570 - 01/13/11 05:46 PM
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> also which game is now unplayable compared to 0.84? is it possibly one of those
> classic games like dkong which got incorrect samples replaced by real, full featured,
> accurately emulated (and therefore much heavier) sound? other than those I cannot
> imagine any other game that can be become unplayable in the past few years...
Admittedly he's mixing up his claim chowder (tm John Gruder) but I think he's actually claiming that some game that runs 60/60 in both versions has horrific input lag in the newer one. At which point I'd say he's probably misconfigured the newer version (trying to reuse the cfg/ini/etc from 0.84 on 0.141 will definitely get you a dysfunctional setup).
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: Lando242]
#243589 - 01/13/11 10:36 PM
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I won't quote to save space.
My argument is that I have .84 running on a (yes I know) slow P3. Your .9x release was perfect for the platform, and most of the classic games I play are perfect for me.
When it comes to upgrading the release to play on the same hardware, it lags. So much so that it is very frustrating. I do not see why I should upgrade my hardware, when the ancient PC (as described) is vastly superior to the platform being emulated - given for the overheads expected. I do not count CHD games.
If the game in question (I have counted 7 so far) is supposed to be preserved in an earlier state, why does this state change with a new build of Mame? Obviously something has caused this during the many revisions, and changes to the code. How many times are the classics played?
What is puzzling is the requirements of the game has not changed since the earlier release. The bloat I speak of is in some releation to Microsoft Software. M$ create code that requires more powerful systems due to the amount of xxx code created. Probably not optimized, but that is out of the scope of my argument.
What I have experienced that these classic games have been impacted somehow, and I will endevour to check and double check my configuration, but I will admit that these same games run fine in attract, but when you coin up and play it it gets frustrating. Maddening.
Perhaps I should keep quiet and play around on my older build, but I do find that if you are preserving these games, the ability to play these classics should not be impacted to the point that they are unplayable. Mind you we are not supposed to play these games, and the experience is the the side effect of the project.
Also please do not get your clocks wound up from my odd constructive criticism, I have been told many times that Mame is for the preservation of the future, and you should take my remarks as uneducated, as I am not a code warrior, but a normal user.
What I have problems with at the moment is Mrdo, Dkong, Digdug,Asteroids, Neogeo Games: Metal Slug. There are more but they escape me at the moment. We can draw up comparasions, but these games run fine on P3/Xbox platforms. No reason why they shouldn't now.
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| Naoki |
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: ]
#243598 - 01/13/11 11:38 PM
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> I won't quote to save space.
>
> My argument is that I have .84 running on a (yes I know) slow P3. Your .9x release
> was perfect for the platform, and most of the classic games I play are perfect for
> me.
>
> When it comes to upgrading the release to play on the same hardware, it lags. So much
> so that it is very frustrating. I do not see why I should upgrade my hardware, when
> the ancient PC (as described) is vastly superior to the platform being emulated -
> given for the overheads expected. I do not count CHD games.
Improving the accuracy will make things slower. It's unavoidable.
> If the game in question (I have counted 7 so far) is supposed to be preserved in an
> earlier state, why does this state change with a new build of Mame? Obviously
> something has caused this during the many revisions, and changes to the code. How
> many times are the classics played?
Reading is a virtue.
Quote:
•It is not unusual for the ROMs to change for a game between releases of MAME. Why would this happen? Oftentimes, better or more complete ROM dumps are made, or errors are found in the way the ROMs were previously defined. Early versions of MAME were not as meticulous about this issue, but more recent MAME builds are. Additionally, there can be more features of a game emulated in a later release of MAME than an earlier release, requiring more ROM code to run.
> What is puzzling is the requirements of the game has not changed since the earlier
> release. The bloat I speak of is in some releation to Microsoft Software. M$ create
> code that requires more powerful systems due to the amount of xxx code created.
> Probably not optimized, but that is out of the scope of my argument.
MAME AFAIK of doesn't have bloated code except for more accurate hardware emulation.
> What I have experienced that these classic games have been impacted somehow, and I
> will endevour to check and double check my configuration, but I will admit that these
> same games run fine in attract, but when you coin up and play it it gets frustrating.
> Maddening.
That's MAME's evolution, deal with it.
> Perhaps I should keep quiet and play around on my older build, but I do find that if
> you are preserving these games, the ability to play these classics should not be
> impacted to the point that they are unplayable. Mind you we are not supposed to play
> these games, and the experience is the the side effect of the project.
So you'd rather imperfect emulation over playability. No gonna happen.
> Also please do not get your clocks wound up from my odd constructive criticism, I
> have been told many times that Mame is for the preservation of the future, and you
> should take my remarks as uneducated, as I am not a code warrior, but a normal user.
It sounds more like a long winded rant complaining that MAME is getting better at your expense. In all honesty I'd rather see the Naomi Bios/games take hours for 3 minutes to play rather than moan about it.
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On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2
By gods I've found it!
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: ]
#243604 - 01/14/11 12:24 AM Attachment: mamespeed.png 58 KB (0 downloads)
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I suppose in your ideal world you want everyone to be able to run Windows 7 with 8MB RAM and a 80486 PC. There's something we call progress and change, if you can't change, then you have no other choice but to stick with what you currently have (if possible).
For your inability to abbreviate MS correctly makes me think you either want everything for free without work or you're just another Linux fan who believes everything should be so complex in order to be so flexible (more battle with the OS and less productivity with the applications).
I'll refer you to this post by Aaron Giles and i'll attach the very same chart in there. The reason about why accuracy makes things slower has already been explained and i don't see MAME installing a browser bar or running update checkers in the background, so your argument about bloatware is totally nonsensical.
http://aarongiles.com/?p=208
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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| redk9258 |
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: ]
#243607 - 01/14/11 12:47 AM
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> The bloat I speak of is in some releation to Microsoft Software. M$ create
> code that requires more powerful systems due to the amount of xxx code created.
> Probably not optimized, but that is out of the scope of my argument.
I think you are wrong here. Windows 7 seems to run on older hardware just as well as XP. It does have a bigger footprint on the HDD, but I think boot time and the general OS experience are just as fast as XP. But, maybe that's just me and thousands of other users.
Why do people abbreviate Microsoft as M$? Is it because they are jealous of Bill Gates fortune? It is because they want everything for free? Do you get your hardware free? At least with a Windows PC you can buy any hardware you want as opposed to another computer manufacturer that forces you to buy their hardware at 3-4 times what it should cost.
Edited by redk9258 (01/14/11 12:52 AM)
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| Naoki |
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Re: Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
[Re: redk9258]
#243614 - 01/14/11 01:16 AM
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I actually get some of my hardware free, but that's free for me anyway...
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On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2
By gods I've found it!
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LOL! I wish you were official MAMEDev so that could be a Dev Quote. -nt-
[Re: Mamesick]
#243615 - 01/14/11 01:17 AM
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Wow...I didn't know Mamesick had that in him......(nt)
[Re: DiodeDude]
#243625 - 01/14/11 03:42 AM
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Joystick response...ghosts n goblins, alien syndrome
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[Re: 
I honestly haven't tried the new version...
