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Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
#245025 - 01/30/11 10:10 AM
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I added Virtual On and Lost World to Supermodel. Both boot up and run just fine but for some reason, many textures are missing. I don't recall having encountered this problem when we were working on the original Supermodel... It's got me quite stumped so I think I'll move on to other games and 2D graphics next. Maybe something will eventually click. For now, here are some videos of Virtual On, which runs quite well, except for the un-textured robots.
Virtual On (1/4)
Virtual On (2/4)
Virtual On (3/4)
Virtual On (4/4)
Also, the last time I posted Scud Race videos, someone was kind enough to volunteer recording some high quality videos of an actual Scud Race machine for comparison. This is extremely useful to me.
If anyone is able to provide reasonable quality videos or even screenshots of Model 3 games, please let me know. At the moment, I'm particularly interested in understanding a certain effect in Lost World. If you think you can help, send me a private message or an email.
Until next time... 
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Bart
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Nice to ...
[Re: Bart T.]
#245029 - 01/30/11 12:53 PM
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see continued progress here!
I forgot one thing, which I personally also find very helpful to have in a GUI is the availability to show only those roms as startable that are correct, available and fully compliant instead of showing all kind of games from the jungle, seen in some emulators 
So a good check of the roms in advance would be helpful as well, just like e.g. in FBA Alpha.
Great work, keep it up.
Best regards,
RetroLover
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Re: Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
[Re: Bart T.]
#245034 - 01/30/11 01:39 PM
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The Title screen and most of the HUD display will be pure garbage, the dongle is used to decode the 2d tilemap data or holds the 2D tilemap - never worked out which.
I believe dumping the dongle data via model 3 serial is an option, like how Naomi carts are dumped..
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Re: Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
[Re: AndyGeezer]
#245036 - 01/30/11 02:28 PM
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> The Title screen and most of the HUD display will be pure garbage, the dongle is used
> to decode the 2d tilemap data or holds the 2D tilemap - never worked out which.
>
> I believe dumping the dongle data via model 3 serial is an option, like how Naomi
> carts are dumped..
The dongle actually sends back more data than it receives, so the 2D data might be compressed (and also crypted?). But yeah, with a simple program and a dongle it should be fairly easy to retrieve the data.
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Re: Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
[Re: Ville Linde]
#245037 - 01/30/11 02:42 PM
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Ville Linde, you have returned from the depths.. it's been years.. 
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Re: Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
[Re: Ville Linde]
#245038 - 01/30/11 02:54 PM
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ville,welcome back to Mamedev...
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What happened to ...
[Re: Bart T.]
#245042 - 01/30/11 04:42 PM
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Re: Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
[Re: jasd]
#245044 - 01/30/11 05:05 PM
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> ville,welcome back to Mamedev...
if only you could be right
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Re: Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
[Re: Hébus]
#245046 - 01/30/11 05:13 PM
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> > ville,welcome back to Mamedev...
>
> if only you could be right
What's that supposed to mean, Hébus?
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"Note to Noobs:
We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.
C.D.~"
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
[Re: Ville Linde]
#245049 - 01/30/11 05:26 PM
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> The dongle actually sends back more data than it receives, so the 2D data might be
> compressed (and also crypted?). But yeah, with a simple program and a dongle it
> should be fairly easy to retrieve the data.
Wonder if it's related to the "method 1" encryption + compression sometimes used in Naomi carts. Andreas made fairly short work of the crypto part there, but the compression is continuing to defy Deunan and the DEMUL guys.
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Re: Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
[Re: Master O]
#245050 - 01/30/11 05:26 PM
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> > > ville,welcome back to Mamedev...
> >
> > if only you could be right
>
> What's that supposed to mean, Hébus?
It would be fine if Ville was back in business.
Some good things could happend in mame.
nothing else
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Re: Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
[Re: Ville Linde]
#245061 - 01/30/11 07:40 PM
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Hi Ville,
Long time no see!
Although I do not have a Virtual On 2 board, I do have VF3 (hopefully it is still working). I was thinking of writing some code to run on the board to test out remaining unknown features of the Model 3 hardware, and that opens up the possibility of sending someone a program for von2 to dump the protection device.
It'll have to wait until summer (my board is in another state and I don't want to have it shipped), but there's plenty to keep busy with before then.
Edited by Bart Trzynadlowski (01/30/11 07:48 PM)
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Bart
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Re: What happened to ...
[Re: RetroLover]
#245062 - 01/30/11 07:42 PM
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I haven't contacted either Ville or Stefano about it yet. I've been super busy in real life, so my ability to coordinate things is non-existent. I'm just hacking away at this every now and then throughout the weekdays.
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Bart
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Re: Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
[Re: R. Belmont]
#245072 - 01/30/11 09:43 PM
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> > The dongle actually sends back more data than it receives, so the 2D data might be
> > compressed (and also crypted?). But yeah, with a simple program and a dongle it
> > should be fairly easy to retrieve the data.
>
> Wonder if it's related to the "method 1" encryption + compression sometimes used in
> Naomi carts. Andreas made fairly short work of the crypto part there, but the
> compression is continuing to defy Deunan and the DEMUL guys.
Is there trojaned data available?
OG.
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Update: Texture upload problem solved. New videos, Sega Rally 2 pics.
[Re: Bart T.]
#245073 - 01/30/11 09:51 PM
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Silly me. I typed '7' when I really meant '0xFF' :P Textures are now uploaded just fine. Remaining discoloration and flat-shaded polygons are primarily due to unimplemented 8- and 4-bit texture formats.
Virtual On
The Lost World
Also, Sega Rally 2 is up and running. Lots of geometry glitches so far. This one is a real stress test for the renderer because it seems to be doing weird things with the scene database and continually uploads textures in-game. It also makes the heaviest use of dynamic models (polygon RAM) that I've yet encountered.
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Bart
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| Naoki |
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Reged: 11/10/09
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Re: Update: Texture upload problem solved. New videos, Sega Rally 2 pics.
[Re: Bart T.]
#245074 - 01/30/11 10:10 PM
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Wow, impressive stuff! Does the Model 3 use anti-aliaising?
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----
On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2
By gods I've found it!
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Re: Update: Texture upload problem solved. New videos, Sega Rally 2 pics.
[Re: Naoki]
#245075 - 01/30/11 10:21 PM
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I don't know. Promo materials claim that the Real3D Pro-1000 has this capability but Model 3 is probably a stripped down version. Keep in mind that the games also run at a paltry 496x384 resolution on CRT monitors. The videos of Scud Race I have taken off of an LCD seem to have what looks to me like aliasing but it's hard to tell because of the recordings' motion blur.
Something that will impact the image quality of distant objects is mipmapping, which Model 3 definitely makes use of but which as far as I know is ignored by all emulators. It's probably the last thing on my priority list because of the non-trivial changes to the rendering architecture it will require.
Edited by Bart Trzynadlowski (01/30/11 10:22 PM)
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Bart
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| TheGuru |
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MAMEDev Dumper
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Re: Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
[Re: Bart T.]
#245080 - 01/30/11 11:19 PM
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> Hi Ville,
>
> Long time no see!
>
> Although I do not have a Virtual On 2 board, I do have VF3 (hopefully it is still
> working). I was thinking of writing some code to run on the board to test out
> remaining unknown features of the Model 3 hardware, and that opens up the possibility
> of sending someone a program for von2 to dump the protection device.
>
> It'll have to wait until summer (my board is in another state and I don't want to
> have it shipped), but there's plenty to keep busy with before then.
if you want to write something I have a couple of Model 3 VON2 boards here I can try it on.
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Re: Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
[Re: TheGuru]
#245082 - 01/30/11 11:45 PM
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That would be great I'll have time this Saturday to start looking at it. Hooking in a program to read out values to the screen shouldn't be too hard. I'll get in touch with you next week once I've got something up and running.
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Bart
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
[Re: Olivier Galibert]
#245084 - 01/31/11 12:01 AM
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> > > The dongle actually sends back more data than it receives, so the 2D data might
> be
> > > compressed (and also crypted?). But yeah, with a simple program and a dongle it
> > > should be fairly easy to retrieve the data.
> >
> > Wonder if it's related to the "method 1" encryption + compression sometimes used in
> > Naomi carts. Andreas made fairly short work of the crypto part there, but the
> > compression is continuing to defy Deunan and the DEMUL guys.
>
> Is there trojaned data available?
Yes. The "naomibd_prot" region in doa2, doa2m (different data from doa2), ggx, 18wheelr, sgtetris, and vtenis2c are all trojan dumps of stuff encoded in that mode, and I believe Deunan has additional data available.
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Re: Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
[Re: Ville Linde]
#245157 - 01/31/11 08:28 AM
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> > The Title screen and most of the HUD display will be pure garbage, the dongle is
> used
> > to decode the 2d tilemap data or holds the 2D tilemap - never worked out which.
> >
> > I believe dumping the dongle data via model 3 serial is an option, like how Naomi
> > carts are dumped..
>
> The dongle actually sends back more data than it receives, so the 2D data might be
> compressed (and also crypted?). But yeah, with a simple program and a dongle it
> should be fairly easy to retrieve the data.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hello. Are you the real Ville?
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Re: Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
[Re: Outrun2006]
#245170 - 01/31/11 02:18 PM
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> > > The Title screen and most of the HUD display will be pure garbage, the dongle is
> > used
> > > to decode the 2d tilemap data or holds the 2D tilemap - never worked out which.
> > >
> > > I believe dumping the dongle data via model 3 serial is an option, like how Naomi
> > > carts are dumped..
> >
> > The dongle actually sends back more data than it receives, so the 2D data might be
> > compressed (and also crypted?). But yeah, with a simple program and a dongle it
> > should be fairly easy to retrieve the data.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Hello. Are you the real Ville?
He is not the real Ville Linde that you are searching for. *waves hand*
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| Ceto |
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♥ Arcade ♥
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Re: Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
[Re: Bart T.]
#245173 - 01/31/11 02:35 PM
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Everytime i see news about model3 emulation, it feels like my heart stops beating while im reading it! Thank you so much for raising our hopes to some day be able to see it running on our monitors.
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| Foxhack |
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Furry guy
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All I can say is...
[Re: Bart T.]
#245178 - 01/31/11 04:10 PM
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> I added Virtual On and Lost World to Supermodel. Both boot up and run just fine but
> for some reason, many textures are missing. I don't recall having encountered this
> problem when we were working on the original Supermodel... It's got me quite stumped
> so I think I'll move on to other games and 2D graphics next. Maybe something will
> eventually click. For now, here are some videos of Virtual On, which runs quite well,
> except for the un-textured robots.
>
> Virtual On (1/4)
> Virtual On (2/4)
> Virtual On (3/4)
> Virtual On (4/4)
>
> Also, the last time I posted Scud Race videos, someone was kind enough to volunteer
> recording some high quality videos of an actual Scud Race machine for comparison.
> This is extremely useful to me.
>
> If anyone is able to provide reasonable quality videos or even screenshots of Model 3
> games, please let me know. At the moment, I'm particularly interested in
> understanding a certain effect in Lost World. If you think you can help, send me a
> private message or an email.
>
> Until next time...
Duh, pwetty graphics.
What? I have no idea about these games, but I'm glad someone figured them out.
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Re: Update: Texture upload problem solved. New videos, Sega Rally 2 pics.
[Re: Naoki]
#245331 - 02/01/11 09:21 AM
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> Wow, impressive stuff! Does the Model 3 use anti-aliaising?
Model-3 has a (color)frame buffer of 1280*1024*24bit, although its screen resolution is only 496*384.
I'll upgrade the rendering code in MAME model-3 driver from 16-bit to true-color.
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Re: Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
[Re: R. Belmont]
#245335 - 02/01/11 11:40 AM
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> > Is there trojaned data available?
>
> Yes. The "naomibd_prot" region in doa2, doa2m (different data from doa2), ggx,
> 18wheelr, sgtetris, and vtenis2c are all trojan dumps of stuff encoded in that mode,
> and I believe Deunan has additional data available.
Actually, Deunan almost had it. I'll email you both tonight.
OG.
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Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: Update: Texture upload problem solved. New videos, Sega Rally 2 pics.
[Re: Naibo]
#245363 - 02/01/11 07:50 PM
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> > Wow, impressive stuff! Does the Model 3 use anti-aliaising?
>
> Model-3 has a (color)frame buffer of 1280*1024*24bit, although its screen resolution
> is only 496*384.
>
> I'll upgrade the rendering code in MAME model-3 driver from 16-bit to true-color.
We're all looking forward to your submission.
- Stiletto
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Supermodel WIP Update: Virtual On
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