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Moving from 27" CRT to LCD
#253299 - 04/30/11 02:36 AM
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I have looked through hundreds of postings and have not found what I was looking for so I'm going to post it here. If it is out there and I just missed it, please point me in the right direction.
I have built 7 MAME cabinets so far and have always used 27" CRTs. They are getting harder to find and I don't like the ones still on the market. I'm getting ready to build 2 more machines and will be using LCD monitors. I'm running the latest MAME with a Hyperspin frontend. So here are my questions.
1: What size LCD would you recommend to give me close to the same fill as a 27" CRT
2: Should it be turned in portait
3: How bad will the old games look on the LCD screen
4: The black areas left on the screen can they be used to display other information like control layout, game instructions, etc.
Your input is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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Stiletto |
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Re: Moving from 27" CRT to LCD
[Re: ddjackso]
#253301 - 04/30/11 02:58 AM
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> 1: What size LCD would you recommend to give me close to the same fill as a 27" CRT
Does not exist... They don't make any 4:3 or 5:4 panels larger than 21 inches or so, or at least they're not mass-produced, and those are really expensive. You could get a 16:9 or 16:10 widescreen panel and turn it "portrait" as you say. Read this entire thread here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=85044.0
My calculations. Assuming your CRT is 4:3 and the LCD you'll buy is 16:9:
- To get close to a 27" 4:3 viewable area such as a Wells-Gardner D9400 has, you need to get between a 32" and 34" 16:9 LCD (excess on the sides) In fact, a 32" (while more common) would be slightly smaller as a 4:3.
Rotating, you'd now need to get even larger.
- To get close to a 27" 4:3 viewable area when rotated, you need to get between a 42" and 44" 16:9 LCD (excess on the sides).
> 2: Should it be turned in portait
You'll probably decrease the horizontal viewing angle drastically if you do that, but if it's a widescreen, you'll gain the ability to use that upper edge as a marquee or something when displaying 4:3 games. Most widescreen monitors and TVs have a much shorter viewing angle vertically, and when rotating to portrait, this becomes horizontal.
> 3: How bad will the old games look on the LCD screen
Very pixelated. I recommend using one of the overlay filters to apply effects to make it look blurrier, gain "scanlines", etc.
> 4: The black areas left on the screen can they be used to display other information
> like control layout, game instructions, etc.
The original artwork around the bezel can fill in some of it if you have the MAME Artwork pack. It might require some tweaking, but the results are amazing! 
All that said, I have yet to build a cab, so I could be wrong. Feel free to ask at ArcadeControls too.
- Stiletto
Edited by Stiletto (04/30/11 04:15 AM)
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Re: Moving from 27" CRT to LCD
[Re: ddjackso]
#253302 - 04/30/11 03:40 AM
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> 3: How bad will the old games look on the LCD screen
Very - LCD's suck for MAME. Shop around for a used CRT if need be, IMO.
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| Stiletto |
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This will also work.
http://www.screenmath.com/
These will be LCD TVs or large-format displays, I assume, not LCD monitors:
32"-42" TVs and large-format displays clock in at resolutions around 1280x720, 1366x768, or 1920x1080 and cost anywhere from $300-$1200.
LCD monitors only go up to 30" and 2560x1600 (aka "1600p") right now - no 40-42" - and cost anywhere between $1200-$2000.
- Stiletto
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
Edited by Stiletto (04/30/11 04:05 AM)
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| Stiletto |
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- Stiletto
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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See also
[Re: Stiletto]
#253310 - 04/30/11 04:30 AM
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| Stiletto |
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One more note: resolution
[Re: Stiletto]
#253312 - 04/30/11 05:09 AM
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One additional note on this: resolution.
A 32"-40" 16:9 LCD TV or large-format display would give you a potential resolution of 1440x1080 for your 4:3 area (Full resolution would be 1920x1080.)
A 32"-40" 16:9 LCD TV or large-format display rotated would give you a potential resolution of 1080x810 for your 4:3 area (Full resolution would be 1080x1920.)
A 30" 16:9 LCD monitor would give you a 4:3 resolution of 2134x1600 for your 4:3 area (Full resolution would be 2560x1600).
A 30" LCD monitor rotated would give you a resolution of 1600x1200 for your 4:3 area (Full resolution would be 1600x2540.)
- Stiletto
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Re: One more note: resolution
[Re: Stiletto]
#253313 - 04/30/11 05:50 AM
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Stiletto
I can't thank you enough for the display measurement and resolution information. It will help me determine the display size I'm going to need if I go the LCD path. I had not even taken into consideration the viewing angle of LCD displays. That would be a big factor in portrait position (rotated).
I felt I would probably hear that nothing would work as well as a CRT. That would still be my first choice, but I'm finding them discontinued everywhere. Does anyone know who might be carrying them? I talked with Betson earlier about thier displays and they said they only know one company still making 27" tubes and they expect them to stop production in 6 months. I have used Wells Gardner with good experience, but MakVision has only given me problems. I wonder what others will do about replacements or new builds going forward.
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Re: One more note: resolution
[Re: ddjackso]
#253314 - 04/30/11 06:29 AM
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> Stiletto
>
> I can't thank you enough for the display measurement and resolution information.
No problem, man. Ever since I noticed 4:3 monitors being phased out, it's been an interest of mine to determine the best replacement. Again, go look at that ArcadeControls thread I dug up - I posted to it a few years ago and at that time found some pretty oddball ones - like a 28.5" 5:4 monitor that was 2560x2048 - but it had a shitty viewing angle, 25ms response where ideally you want 16ms or less... and it cost $1000's. Similar to this, the KDS Radius RAD-23 23.1in 4:3 1600x1200 LCD from 2002. There ARE non-widescreen ones out there larger than 21", but they're dinosaurs by today's standards and hella expensive.
A few things I should also note:
- Large 16:10 LCD monitors actually top out around 1920x1200. What's awesome about this is that your "pillarboxed" 4:3 display area becomes a familiar-sounding 1600x1200. Neat, huh? You might want to check that out, even if the diagonal area will be smaller than you want...
- Or maybe it will be the right size. Here's one dude's calculations on a 30" 16:10 panel from 2007. See harvestman's post here: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/654299
** Diagonal = 26.5" **
Unfortunately, this is 2560x1600, so again this is a weird resolution at 4:3: 2133.333333x1600
- Depending on the type of LCD panel (TN, IPS, S-IPS, etc.), the ability to rotate and have a decent viewing angle can increase. See Blanka's notes on this here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=83858.0
- But don't forget with a rotated panel, you can make a LCD "marquee" area as easy as making a lay file: (from 2007) http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=70626.0
For me, the real question is: what are non-MAME cabinets going to do for drop-in replacements as things like raster CRT displays have ceased production? There's no drop-in solution as of yet, and the way things are going, I don't think there will be. Vector monitors have ceased production for many more years, and there's only one drop-in replacement I've heard of, and you DON'T get the same effects as on a true vector monitor due to the nature of vector technology...
PS. Here's another fun-to-play-with website: http://tvcalculator.com
- Stiletto
Edited by Stiletto (04/30/11 06:37 AM)
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Re: One more note: resolution
[Re: Stiletto]
#253592 - 05/03/11 05:34 AM
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> For me, the real question is: what are non-MAME cabinets going to do for drop-in
> replacements as things like raster CRT displays have ceased production? There's no
> drop-in solution as of yet, and the way things are going, I don't think there will
> be. >
> - Stiletto
They've been making, and many distributors including Happ have already switched to, multisync LCDs.
With a decent-size monitor, I wouldn't bother with rotating it. While I do have a dedicated vert cab, that's only because it came with a 27" 15khz monitor, and it's not my main rig, which has a 27" digital multisync CRT.
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Re: Moving from 27" CRT to LCD
[Re: ddjackso]
#253919 - 05/07/11 07:49 PM
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Re: Moving from 27" CRT to LCD
[Re: guppy]
#253972 - 05/08/11 05:29 AM
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