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Official HLSL thread
#255547 - 05/25/11 09:13 AM
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Well, at least a direct one in the right place.
So, the first thing I want to know is, can the scanlines be rotated, independent of game display orientation?
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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Re: Unofficial HLSL thread
[Re: mogli]
#255570 - 05/25/11 05:26 PM
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> Well, at least a direct one in the right place.
>
> So, the first thing I want to know is, can the scanlines be rotated, independent of
> game display orientation?
But...why?
Do you want horizontal scanlines on a vertically oriented game? That kind of goes against the spirit of the whole thing.
S
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| John IV |
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Scanlines with a slight red offset for color bleed (note the pacman maze dots).
hlsl_enable 1
hlslpath hlsl
shadow_mask_alpha 0.03
shadow_mask_texture aperture.png
shadow_mask_x_count 512
shadow_mask_y_count 384
shadow_mask_usize 0.125
shadow_mask_vsize 0.125
oversample_x 1.0
oversample_y 1.0
curvature 0.05
screen_scale_top 1.0
screen_scale_bottom 1.0
pincushion 0.05
scanline_alpha 0.73
scanline_size 1.0
scanline_bright_scale .65
scanline_bright_offset 0.6
scanline_jitter 0.10
defocus_x .05
defocus_y .05
red_converge_x -0.4
red_converge_y -0.7
green_converge_x 0.0
green_converge_y 0.0
blue_converge_x 0.0
blue_converge_y 0.0
red_radial_converge_x 0.0
red_radial_converge_y 0.0
green_radial_converge_x 0.0
green_radial_converge_y 0.0
blue_radial_converge_x 0.0
blue_radial_converge_y 0.0
red_from_r 1.0
red_from_g 0.0
red_from_b 0.0
green_from_r 0.0
green_from_g 1.0
green_from_b 0.0
blue_from_r 0.0
blue_from_g 0.0
blue_from_b 1.0
saturation 1.0
red_offset 0.0
green_offset 0.0
blue_offset 0.0
red_scale 1.1
green_scale 1.1
blue_scale 1.1
red_power 2.2
green_power 2.2
blue_power 2.2
red_floor 0.05
green_floor 0.05
blue_floor 0.05
red_phosphor_life 0.45
green_phosphor_life 0.45
blue_phosphor_life 0.45
yiq_enable 0
yiq_w 4.1887902047863909846168578443727
yiq_a 0.5
yiq_b 0.5
yiq_fsc 1.5
yiq_fsc_scale 0.5
yiq_phase_count 2
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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john iv
http://www.mameui.info/
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: mogli]
#255582 - 05/25/11 08:00 PM
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> Well, at least a direct one in the right place.
>
> So, the first thing I want to know is, can the scanlines be rotated, independent of
> game display orientation?
Have you tried rotating aperture.png 90° and use a custom mame.ini file for a specific game or driver? I would, but I don't mind the issue. :P
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: BIOS-D]
#255583 - 05/25/11 08:13 PM
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Rotating the aperture.png 90° only affects the shadow_mask texture and not the scanlines in HLSL D3D post-processing settings. Hopefully it will be possible in the future so that we can define it in vertical.ini.
Horizontal scanlines on a vertically oriented games looks much better in my opinion and our brains can fill the gaps more easily & smoother compared to vertical scanlines when it comes to moving images.
I'm 100% sure that if true vertical monitors with normal horizontal scanlines existed during the arcade golden age then the developers would've indeed used them for their games instead of just flipping a 4:3 monitor.
Cheers
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----
“Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.” --Albert Einstein
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: John IV]
#255594 - 05/25/11 10:02 PM
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Wow! I just used your settings and they look amazing. Esp on SF2. Really gave the feeling that I was playing the game on an old arcade monitor. Now I gotta go play a bunch of other games and see how they look 
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Windows 11 64 bit OS
Intel Core i7-10700
Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060 6GB
32GB DDR4 RAM
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: John IV]
#255597 - 05/25/11 10:13 PM
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> Scanlines with a slight red offset for color bleed (note the pacman maze dots).
If my screen looked like that, I would adjust the static convergence magnets on the CRT neck to bring the red back into alignment.
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Do not p-mail me for help compiling my updates, ask on the board.
Do not request sound for your favorite game. I work on whatever, when I get around to it.
If you have schematics for discrete sound games not easily found on the net, I would be interested.
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| redk9258 |
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Derrick Renaud]
#255602 - 05/25/11 10:35 PM
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> > Scanlines with a slight red offset for color bleed (note the pacman maze dots).
>
> If my screen looked like that, I would adjust the static convergence magnets on the
> CRT neck to bring the red back into alignment.
Or wear 3D glasses. LOL
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: John IV]
#255625 - 05/26/11 05:47 AM
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Thanks very much John, The preset you posted is working great for me.
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| John IV |
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: B2K24]
#255638 - 05/26/11 08:07 AM
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| John IV |
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One based of Reznor007's Virtua Racing.
hlsl_enable 1
hlslpath hlsl
shadow_mask_alpha 0.2
shadow_mask_texture aperture.png
shadow_mask_x_count 496
shadow_mask_y_count 384
shadow_mask_usize 0.09375
shadow_mask_vsize 0.09375
oversample_x 1.0
oversample_y 1.0
curvature 0.10
screen_scale_top 1.0
screen_scale_bottom 1.0
pincushion 0.03
scanline_alpha 0.6
scanline_size 0.7
scanline_bright_scale 1.0
scanline_bright_offset 0.6
scanline_jitter 0.05
defocus_x 0.0
defocus_y 0.5
red_converge_x -0.4
red_converge_y -0.7
green_converge_x 0.0
green_converge_y 0.0
blue_converge_x 0.0
blue_converge_y 0.0
red_radial_converge_x 0.0
red_radial_converge_y 0.0
green_radial_converge_x 0.0
green_radial_converge_y 0.0
blue_radial_converge_x 0.0
blue_radial_converge_y 0.0
red_from_r 1.0
red_from_g 0.0
red_from_b 0.0
green_from_r 0.0
green_from_g 1.0
green_from_b 0.0
blue_from_r 0.0
blue_from_g 0.0
blue_from_b 1.0
saturation 1.2
red_offset 0.0
green_offset 0.0
blue_offset 0.0
red_scale 1.0
green_scale 1.0
blue_scale 1.0
red_power 2.2
green_power 2.2
blue_power 2.2
red_floor 0.02
green_floor 0.02
blue_floor 0.02
red_phosphor_life 0.5
green_phosphor_life 0.5
blue_phosphor_life 0.5
yiq_enable 0
yiq_w 4.1187867
yiq_a 0.5
yiq_b 0.5
yiq_fsc 1.5
yiq_fsc_scale 1.0
yiq_phase_count 2
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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john iv
http://www.mameui.info/
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: mogli]
#255645 - 05/26/11 12:09 PM
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Hit an interesting issue. Maybe someone here will have an idea.
I have three displays-- display 1 is using an onboard Radeon HD4200, display 2 is using one of two outputs on my GeForce 9800GT, and display 3 (master display) is using the last output on my GeForce 9800GT hooked to an LCD HDTV.
MAME is set up to use display 2 as display0 at 1600x900 and display 3 as display1 at 1360x768. If I try to use the HLSL config with dual displays turned on, it will show the white border around the screens awhile, then eventually dump to desktop without a word. As I'm using the precompiled build of MAMEUI64, -verbose isn't dumping out anything I can use to track the exact issue. When I cut it down to a single display, the HLSL stuff works exactly as it should.
So, should I assume this thing really wants multimonitor to have the same resolution, or does this just not support multiple displays?
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---
Try checking the MAME manual at http://docs.mamedev.org
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Firehawke]
#255646 - 05/26/11 12:20 PM
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these options are pretty new, so it might easily be simply a case of untested behavior (I don't know if JD has multiple screens to test this).
thanks for reporting.
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: etabeta]
#255650 - 05/26/11 03:38 PM
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Lol...this is great, for the first time since getting an LCD, i have eye strain caused by screen flicker...
Emulated eye strain....MAME never ceases to amaze!!!... 
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Derrick Renaud]
#255652 - 05/26/11 04:06 PM
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> > Scanlines with a slight red offset for color bleed (note the pacman maze dots).
>
> If my screen looked like that, I would adjust the static convergence magnets on the
> CRT neck to bring the red back into alignment.
Yeah, although it's relatively common for those magnets to have been bumped in shipping or whatever
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: R. Belmont]
#255659 - 05/26/11 05:22 PM
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Looking at some of these shots almost makes me want to ditch my CRT TV through component cables and put an LCD monitor in my cab. How ironic!
The thing is, getting a large LCD display, say ~25" with a 4:3 aspect ratio is not cheap these days. Unless I want to give up some screen area and go 16:9.
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| John IV |
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IV/Play, MAME, MAMEUI
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Firehawke]
#255660 - 05/26/11 06:03 PM
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I just hit this this morning independently w/ 2 monitors off a dual head ATI 4850 both going to 1920x1200 but one is 1200x1920 for vertical games. It works if you window them, but not fullscreen. I pinged the list.
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Operative word: 'old'....
[Re: Envisaged0ne]
#255693 - 05/27/11 02:33 AM
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Just like Derrick inferred, why the hell would you want to remember playing games in the ghetto?
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: "The Manuel"]
#255694 - 05/27/11 02:34 AM
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> The thing is, getting a large LCD display, say ~25" with a 4:3 aspect ratio is not
> cheap these days. Unless I want to give up some screen area and go 16:9.
Why people are intent on preserving aspect ratio of the hardware is beyond me. If the image fills top to bottom in the natural fashion, let it be! (...let it beee....let it beeeeee, let it bee)
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: mogli]
#255695 - 05/27/11 02:35 AM
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Maybe they don't like characters stretched or distorted?
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Reznor007]
#255703 - 05/27/11 03:32 AM
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Doesn't have to be distorted, and you get the benefit of being able to run the artwork on the sides.
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Re: Unofficial HLSL thread
[Re: Sune]
#255707 - 05/27/11 03:57 AM
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> But...why?
>
> Do you want horizontal scanlines on a vertically oriented game?
Yes. Yes I do. I generally prefer them that way. Of course, on my 15khz vert cab, I have no choice....though I still toy with the idea of putting an arcade multisync in horizontal position so that vert games would have horizontal lines - like is the case on my main rig, which has an arcade multisync.
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Firehawke]
#255709 - 05/27/11 03:59 AM
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> Doesn't have to be distorted, and you get the benefit of being able to run the
> artwork on the sides.
Or, gasp, blanks ends! Which is what I meant, and what Reznor missed, when I said 'in the natural fashion'.
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Ziggy100]
#255715 - 05/27/11 05:01 AM
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> Lol...this is great, for the first time since getting an LCD, i have eye strain
> caused by screen flicker...
>
> Emulated eye strain....MAME never ceases to amaze!!!...
That's just a gross feature. Judder...no thanks. 60hz progressive is the farthest I'll go....though, I tend not to go the other direction, either....
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: mogli]
#255728 - 05/27/11 06:53 AM
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"'in the natural fashion'. "
In other words, preserving the aspect ratio...
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Reznor007]
#255735 - 05/27/11 08:42 AM
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> "'in the natural fashion'. "
>
> In other words, preserving the aspect ratio...
Of the video display. You totally missed the black humor. People are so anal about their display size/aspect matching classic display standard. Those black spaces on either side are like...the abyss.
In other news: is anyone finding that mame.ini settings aren't affecting specific games? I am, with MAMEUI.
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[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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Mortal Kombat II Hi-Res
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: nirv]
#255744 - 05/27/11 10:52 AM
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You have to set the MAME "pre-scale" to 1 when HLSL is enabled. (it seems to be set to a value higher than 2-3 in the screenshot)
The hlsl color blending and phosphor bleed simulation will work properly then and look more like an arcade-monitor and also less pixelated than in the image. The screenshot also begs for a higher defocus_x & y values
You don't seem to use any "shadow_mask_texture" at all judging from the screenshots or a very very low "shadow_mask_alpha". Only the pincushion effect and a high saturation are visible and it's not doing hlsl any justice.
Cheers
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: mogli]
#255763 - 05/27/11 03:51 PM
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Quick question:
If NTSC signal consists of a total of 486 visible scanlines, does that mean an accurate scanline width would imply dividing vertical system resolution by that very same number or somehow is it unrelated?
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Scanlines <> Pixel
[Re: mogli]
#255823 - 05/27/11 11:31 PM
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How can get, to match the scanlines with the pixel?
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| Sune |
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Malmanian]
#255840 - 05/28/11 02:59 AM
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> You have to set the MAME "pre-scale" to 1 when HLSL is enabled.
To me it makes more sense to set it to a higher value (my native res is 1280x1024, I set prescale to 3) because you will want a clean and sharp image to be processed by the HLSL effects, not the blurry image you get when prescale is set to 1.
Like the signal an arcade PCB sends to a monitor. The image does not come out "blurry" from an arcade PCB, like it does from MAME with prescale set to 1.
Right?
S
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Sune]
#255845 - 05/28/11 03:58 AM
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I agree that in the past (pre 0.142u4 hlsl mame) a higher pre-scale value was definitely needed to avoid a blurry image when upscaled to hi-res. But now hlsl will upscale the image itself and post-process it in multiple passes and the final output and effect will look better and closer to what you saw on the original arcade monitor when the pre-scale is set to 1 otherwise it is just a waste of potential to enable hlsl just for the scanline effects and saturation alone if the output is going to look like that.
For example compare this MK2 image with the MK2 image posted above and note that the edges looks much smoother and non-pixelated and the color blends much better:
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/userfiles/255639-1.png
Cheers
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Malmanian]
#255848 - 05/28/11 05:27 AM
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: B2K24]
#255850 - 05/28/11 05:42 AM
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> There are new HLSL files in the MESS SVN tree.
>
> A few fixes have been applied.
>
> http://mess.dorando.at/svn/
Hm, maybe i messed something up while updating post.fx, but it seems that scanline_bright_offset is not working anymore.
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Malmanian]
#255851 - 05/28/11 05:48 AM
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> For example compare this MK2 image with the MK2 image posted above and note that the
> edges looks much smoother and non-pixelated and the color blends much better:
> http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/userfiles/255639-1.png
Yours looks better, to me the effect looks superimposed and unnatural in nirv's attached MK2 screenshot above. What can I say, in the end it's subjective. Another poster here would like horizontal scanlines on vertically oriented games!
I'm using one of the settings JohnIV posted (I think? lol, I have tried them all) + prescale 3 and it looks more like yours than nirvs.
You may be right about the HLSL stuff already doing scaling but I definitely am seeing a blurrier, slightly out of focus looking image with prescale set to 1.
One thing that amazes me is seeing the letters of color-cycling logo on the Rainbow Islands title screen "jump" like they would on a real monitor. Without HLSL they just, well, cycle.
One problem I have found is that some settings that look great on higher res games (Rampage World Tour) don't look as good on old, lower res games (Pac Man, Moon Patrol) and vice versa.
S
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Sune]
#255855 - 05/28/11 07:04 AM
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: nirv]
#255865 - 05/28/11 10:31 AM
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I threw together a quick comparison video of what Mortal Kombat II's title screen looks like with HLSL on and off. Play in 720 or 1080p. HLSL really seems to bring out the art in the games I've tried.
MK2 HLSL on/off (720p)
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: nirv]
#255872 - 05/28/11 04:24 PM
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Excellent video, now that looks much better. Thanks for the info about the updated hlsl files, I somehow missed that. Cheers
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Malmanian]
#255874 - 05/28/11 05:31 PM
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: crowlos]
#255876 - 05/28/11 06:01 PM
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wow, it looks very good and razor sharp and clean now even without pre-scale. I might need to increase my defocus_x/y values now a bit with the new updated hlsl .fx files since it looks too sharp for my taste if that's even possible . Cheers
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Re: Unofficial HLSL thread
[Re: mogli]
#256057 - 05/30/11 05:31 PM
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dudes, what would the "ideal"settings be for running horizontal games on a 37"lcd AND 16/9 aspect , with NO curvature at all?
(and please, dont shoot at me, i know it´s not "realistic", i just like it this way).
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HLSL profiles
[Re: Fogueman]
#256060 - 05/30/11 05:51 PM
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Someone may have already mentioned something similar already, but be nice to have ability to load profiles for HLSL, one per game.
e.g mame -hlslprofile sf2.ini sf2.zip
If hlsl switch not used or invalid file specified, uses mame INI values instead.
Thinking about it more, might be easier to have new sub folder for these INI files, and if INI file present, use it, else use normal mame.ini values.
Be great for trying out user made settings.
Fantastic feature this, loving it
Edited by zambr (05/30/11 06:07 PM)
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Re: HLSL profiles
[Re: zambr]
#256064 - 05/30/11 06:10 PM
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It does that already, all the settings are stored in the already game specific(or driver specific) ini's. I setup profiles generally on a per driver basis simply because in most cases all games on 1 hardware are 1 resolution(does not include psx/stv/similar changing resolutions)
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Re: HLSL profiles
[Re: zambr]
#256065 - 05/30/11 06:13 PM
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> Someone may have already mentioned something similar already, but be nice to have
> ability to load profiles for HLSL, one per game.
System/Driver level.
> e.g mame -hlslprofile sf2.ini sf2.zip
e.g mame -hlslprofile cps2.hlsl sf2.zip
> If hlsl switch not used or invalid file specified, uses mame INI values instead.
This.
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Re: HLSL profiles
[Re: Reznor007]
#256068 - 05/30/11 06:28 PM
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> It does that already, all the settings are stored in the already game specific(or
> driver specific) ini's. I setup profiles generally on a per driver basis simply
> because in most cases all games on 1 hardware are 1 resolution(does not include
> psx/stv/similar changing resolutions)
Really? Awesome
I didn't remember seeing it in Tafoid's FAQ.
I also did a quick test in MESS to see how it behaved, on Tekken 3 it crashes just before animation is due to play on attract. Works normally with it switched off.
Edited by zambr (05/30/11 06:33 PM)
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Tafoid |
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I keep on testing.. testing.. testing... into the future!
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Re: HLSL profiles
[Re: zambr]
#256069 - 05/30/11 06:59 PM
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> > It does that already, all the settings are stored in the already game specific(or
> > driver specific) ini's. I setup profiles generally on a per driver basis simply
> > because in most cases all games on 1 hardware are 1 resolution(does not include
> > psx/stv/similar changing resolutions)
>
> Really? Awesome
>
> I didn't remember seeing it in Tafoid's FAQ.
I've adjusted the FAQ to show this information. It was presumption on my part to think people already knew the 'laws of .ini'
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| Sune |
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Connected
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Re: HLSL profiles
[Re: zambr]
#256084 - 05/30/11 11:36 PM
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> I also did a quick test in MESS to see how it behaved, on Tekken 3 it crashes just
> before animation is due to play on attract. Works normally with it switched off.
Try using namcos12.ini instead of a tekken3.ini..maybe it will make a difference, maybe not..
S
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: John IV]
#256107 - 05/31/11 04:10 AM
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This is the one that has made me look at Donkey Kong and Galaga in the old light.
This HLSL stuff is neat.
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: John IV]
#256127 - 05/31/11 09:09 AM
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For some reason the red bleed doesn't work for me with Pacman and some other games. Worked fine on other games like SF2, MK, etc.
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Interesting Attract/Demo Tests - Tekken 3 (MAME vs MESS)
[Re: Sune]
#256137 - 05/31/11 12:26 PM
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> > I also did a quick test in MESS to see how it behaved, on Tekken 3 it crashes just
> > before animation is due to play on attract. Works normally with it switched off.
>
> Try using namcos12.ini instead of a tekken3.ini..maybe it will make a difference,
> maybe not..
>
> S
No, that has nothing to do with it. For starters, MESS does not run any arcade games, lol
Interesting Attract/Demo Tests - Tekken 3 (MAME vs MESS)
...both run on PSX h/w
HLSL = 0
MAME (arcade .chd file) : OK, runs fast
MESS (home console .chd file) : OK, runs slow
HLSL = 1
MAME (arcade .chd file) : OK, runs fast
MESS (home console .chd file) : crashes, runs slow
NOTE : used identical HLSL settings within each emulator, plus used 64bit version emu's for tests (142u4).
Edited by zambr (05/31/11 01:37 PM)
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Re: Interesting Attract/Demo Tests - Tekken 3 (MAME vs MESS)
[Re: zambr]
#256147 - 05/31/11 02:14 PM
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The next u update may fix that. There was a bugfix related to systems that change resolutions alot
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| Sune |
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Re: Interesting Attract/Demo Tests - Tekken 3 (MAME vs MESS)
[Re: zambr]
#256197 - 06/01/11 01:53 AM
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> > Try using namcos12.ini instead of a tekken3.ini..maybe it will make a difference,
> > maybe not..
> No, that has nothing to do with it. For starters, MESS does not run any arcade games
Yeah I missed that, I thought you were talking about MAME. Anyway I guess for MESS that would be psx.ini.
S
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Re: Interesting Attract/Demo Tests - Tekken 3 (MAME vs MESS)
[Re: Sune]
#256253 - 06/01/11 11:50 PM
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> > > Try using namcos12.ini instead of a tekken3.ini..maybe it will make a difference,
> > > maybe not..
>
> > No, that has nothing to do with it. For starters, MESS does not run any arcade
> games
>
> Yeah I missed that, I thought you were talking about MAME. Anyway I guess for MESS
> that would be psx.ini.
>
> S
What's more interesting, is why the arcade game is so much faster than the home equivalent.
It's normally the other way round, with arcade board with twice amount of memory etc (that is comparing arcade board based on h/w of home console).
I'm guessing the MESS PSX driver is more complete, hence slower, maybe? Just a guess.
Edited by zambr (06/02/11 12:01 AM)
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Re: Interesting Attract/Demo Tests - Tekken 3 (MAME vs MESS)
[Re: zambr]
#256270 - 06/02/11 01:38 AM
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The arcade version defaults to non-interlaced mode, which is faster, but the console version may run interlaced only.
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What exactly is HLSL?
[Re: mogli]
#256274 - 06/02/11 01:47 AM
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I see the pictures, but what doesn't the acry mean? and what is different then the scanlines (other then this looks better).
And has anyone tried using opengl / directx to have every pixel be a circle on a plane? I'm not sure if any graphics cards could handle the amount of light sources which are all different. But it seems like going this direction could have some great effect. You could zoom it in/out well, it should be very accurate, and you could make the screen be rounded... Heck, later we could add some head tracking (like Johnny Lee's youtube video). Where the front bezel doesn't move, but the screen does a bit.
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| Sune |
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What's the first hit when you google HLSL?
[Re: Lilwolf]
#256300 - 06/02/11 04:43 AM
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> I see the pictures, but what doesn't the acry mean?
S
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Interesting Attract/Demo Tests - Tekken 3 (MAME vs MESS)
[Re: zambr]
#256319 - 06/02/11 04:01 PM
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> What's more interesting, is why the arcade game is so much faster than the home
> equivalent.
MAME speed-cheats a lot of these 3D games, believe it or not. In MESS that's impractical because you do it differently for each game and MESS runs a lot more games.
Also, AFAIK the home version of Tekken 3 always runs interlaced, which is quite a bit slower.
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Checking out latest SVN build right now, and this filter looks really great. Sharp and clean.
Good job.
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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| Sune |
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Connected
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Needs more "bleed" artifacting....
[Re: Dadriell]
#256336 - 06/02/11 09:46 PM
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> this filter looks really great. Sharp and clean.
Looks a bit too clean for an arcade monitor IMHO. It looks more like the image you might get with one of those 14" Commodore 1084/Philips CM series Amiga monitors.
lol we can discuss these things in all eternity..
S
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Re: Needs more "bleed" artifacting....
[Re: Sune]
#256340 - 06/02/11 10:59 PM
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A good arcade monitor is actually pretty sharp. Alot of the old ones people remember are quite worn out, with excessive blur and bloom. I used to be a tech at an arcade and worked on alot of monitors of various age and condition.
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I agree that it looks too sharp for my taste, the original arcade monitor for this game ran @ 320x224 and didn't look this pixilated as it does when up-scaled to hi-res with a high pre-scale value as shown in your image but other than that it looks great.
Here is my screenshot for the same game and of course what might look good to me might look awful to others so I keep that in mind but I'm very happy with the output and looking forward to the next HLSL update with prefect scanline lineup, *I'm struggling to get it 100% perfect and currently there is no perfect universal "scanline_size" for all games, at least not when artworks and bezels are used.
preview:
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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| Sune |
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looks like 2xSAI with HLSL on top_nt
[Re: Malmanian]
#256343 - 06/03/11 12:49 AM
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| Tomu Breidah |
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No Problems, Only Solutions
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I have an urge to 'insert coin' [nt]
[Re: nirv]
#256344 - 06/03/11 01:50 AM
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must insert coin. 
edit: yeah, yeah. I don't care.
Edited by T0M (06/03/11 01:52 AM)
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Malmanian]
#256369 - 06/03/11 04:36 AM
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That's looks great MilliGoodz, Would you mind pastebin your settings so I may have a look please?
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Re: Needs more "bleed" artifacting....
[Re: Reznor007]
#256404 - 06/03/11 09:52 AM
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> A good arcade monitor is actually pretty sharp. Alot of the old ones people remember
> are quite worn out, with excessive blur and bloom. I used to be a tech at an arcade
> and worked on alot of monitors of various age and condition.
All the machines I saw as a kid were new, and they were gone long before they started looking poor. The bonuses of living in a small city.
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Malmanian]
#256405 - 06/03/11 09:57 AM
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> I agree that it looks too sharp for my taste, the original arcade monitor for this
> game ran @ 320x224 and didn't look this pixilated
The best balance I could get was prescale at 3 (curiously, 2 doesn't effect change), with the x and y defocus at .5 or .3 . Of course, that drags my P4 and geforce 6800 down below %100 frame rate.
> *I'm struggling to get it 100% perfect and currently there is no perfect universal
> "scanline_size" for all games, at least not when artworks and bezels are used.
I was wondering about that. Until that is rectified, I have no reason to use the shader over the standard effect system.
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: mogli]
#267788 - 11/02/11 01:41 PM
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I apologize for bumping this but I am new to the whole HLSL thing, and I've copied and pasted the settings John IV posted. The results are good but I don't like the fish bowl effect. Can someone please tell me how to reduce the fish bowl effect and make it more flat? I tried changing pincushion and curvature to 0.0 and it's still there. Here's what the HLSL part of my MESS/MAME ini file looks like:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
#
# DIRECT3D POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
hlsl_enable 1
hlslini %g
hlslpath ../hlsl
shadow_mask_alpha 0.03
shadow_mask_texture aperture.png
shadow_mask_x_count 512
shadow_mask_y_count 384
shadow_mask_usize 0.125
shadow_mask_vsize 0.125
oversample_x 1.0
oversample_y 1.0
curvature 1.0
screen_scale_top 1.0
screen_scale_bottom 1.0
pincushion 1.0
scanline_alpha 0.73
scanline_size 1.0
scanline_bright_scale .65
scanline_bright_offset 0.6
scanline_jitter 0.10
defocus_x .02
defocus_y .02
red_converge_x -0.4
red_converge_y -0.7
green_converge_x 0.0
green_converge_y 0.0
blue_converge_x 0.0
blue_converge_y 0.0
red_radial_converge_x 0.0
red_radial_converge_y 0.0
green_radial_converge_x 0.0
green_radial_converge_y 0.0
blue_radial_converge_x 0.0
blue_radial_converge_y 0.0
red_from_r 1.0
red_from_g 0.0
red_from_b 0.0
green_from_r 0.0
green_from_g 1.0
green_from_b 0.0
blue_from_r 0.0
blue_from_g 0.0
blue_from_b 1.0
saturation 1.0
red_offset 0.0
green_offset 0.0
blue_offset 0.0
red_scale 1.1
green_scale 1.1
blue_scale 1.1
red_power 2.2
green_power 2.2
blue_power 2.2
red_floor 0.05
green_floor 0.05
blue_floor 0.05
red_phosphor_life 0.45
green_phosphor_life 0.45
blue_phosphor_life 0.45
yiq_enable 0
yiq_w 4.1887902047863909846168578443727
yiq_a 0.5
yiq_b 0.5
yiq_fsc 1.5
yiq_fsc_scale 0.5
yiq_phase_count 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Outrun2006]
#267794 - 11/02/11 03:54 PM
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Are you using latest mame 0.143u9? It's best to use the latest version because HLSL is much more stable now.
Feel free to try these out.
It's pincushion that curves the screen.
http://pastebin.com/bBvLJkFw
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: B2K24]
#267822 - 11/02/11 10:04 PM
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Yes I'm using the latest version of mess and mame. I already had pincushion and curvature set to 0, but I'm still getting the fish bowl effect. Why is that?
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| John IV |
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IV/Play, MAME, MAMEUI
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Outrun2006]
#267828 - 11/02/11 10:57 PM
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You probably have the .\hlsl\*.ini file taking precedence and it doesn't have the settings at zero.
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: John IV]
#267838 - 11/03/11 01:11 AM
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> You probably have the .\hlsl\*.ini file taking precedence and it doesn't have the
> settings at zero.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It appears you are correct John. MAMEHUB created a separate HLSL file....one for each console in mess I play, and it appears to take precedence over the HLSL settings within the main MESS ini file. It acknowledges changes I make in the console-specific ini file(snes.ini for example), which is contained in a HLSL folder.
I enjoy using your settings JohnIV. Nice CRT-like effect. This is now what my snes.ini in the HLSL folder looks like:
hlsl_enable 1
hlsl_prescale_x 5
hlsl_prescale_y 5
hlsl_preset -1
hlsl_snap_width 2048
hlsl_snap_height 1536
shadow_mask_alpha 0.000000
shadow_mask_texture
shadow_mask_x_count 512
shadow_mask_y_count 384
shadow_mask_usize 0.125000
shadow_mask_vsize 0.125000
curvature 0.600000
pincushion 0.100000
scanline_alpha 0.730000
scanline_size 1.000000
scanline_height 0.700000
scanline_bright_scale 1.000000
scanline_bright_offset 0.600000
scanline_jitter 0.000000
defocus 0.000000,0.000000
converge_x 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
converge_y 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
radial_converge_x 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
radial_converge_y 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
red_ratio 1.000000,0.000000,0.000000
grn_ratio 0.000000,1.000000,0.000000
blu_ratio 0.000000,0.000000,1.000000
saturation 1.000000
offset 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
scale 1.000000,1.000000,1.000000
power 1.000000,1.000000,1.000000
floor 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
phosphor_life 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
yiq_enable 0
yiq_cc 3.597545
yiq_a 0.500000
yiq_b 0.500000
yiq_o 0.000000
yiq_p 1.000000
yiq_n 1.000000
yiq_y 6.000000
yiq_i 1.200000
yiq_q 0.600000
yiq_scan_time 52.599998
yiq_phase_count 2
Is there anything you see wrong or unecessary in this file? I did so much copy and pasting that I may have added some uneeded lines in there lol.
I would like to experiment with these files some more. Anywhere I can go to test other people's HLSL settings? I've really only seen you and one other person post their settings.
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Outrun2006]
#267839 - 11/03/11 01:25 AM
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: B2K24]
#267844 - 11/03/11 01:59 AM
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Outrun2006]
#267876 - 11/03/11 11:04 AM
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Which value can I change to make the scanlines more..."pronounced" if you will? Y'know, make them stand out a bit more?
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Re: Needs more "bleed" artifacting....
[Re: Reznor007]
#267887 - 11/03/11 02:34 PM
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I grew up in the arcades, as well as working in them much later in life.
Arcade monitors of the early classics used larger dot pitch, meaning, the pixel triads were larger, thus fewer, and thicker shadow-mask. This changes the way these games look as compared to a more modern arcade monitor.
Light tended to bleed past the larger dot pitch monitors much more so that todays fine pitch shadow-masks. The lines of the mask being thicker also created a somewhat more blended image by default as well.
Additionally, I suspect that certain games monitors were intentionally tweaked to be a little de-focused, to make things a little more blended.
Finally, Ive heard some say that the fishbowl effect was not present on arcade monitors. While many modern arcade monitors were adjusted to correct the fishbowl effect... a lot of the classics were shipped without any correction, intentionally.
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Re: Needs more "bleed" artifacting....
[Re: StevieWunderful]
#267964 - 11/04/11 06:42 AM
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> Finally, Ive heard some say that the fishbowl effect was not present on arcade
> monitors. While many modern arcade monitors were adjusted to correct the fishbowl
> effect... a lot of the classics were shipped without any correction, intentionally.
....I thought this 'fishbowl' effect was to simulate a curved tube. I don't recall seeing any games with bizarre pincushion. All the games I saw, that were functioning half-way decent anyway, had the images filling the screen.
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> Which value can I change to make the scanlines more..."pronounced" if you will?
> Y'know, make them stand out a bit more?
Scanline alpha. Shadow Mask Alpha will juice it a little more, but I hate the look. I prefer just setting Scanline Alpha to '1'. I notice JohnIV's is .73, and that looks good, too. The rest (like the pincushion effect) I'd shit-can.
With the above setting, it apparently defaults the prescale to '2'. '3' makes it real sharp. I'm of course using a 27" multisync CRT here at only 1024x768, so '3' makes it look just like when the monitor is displaying games at their native resolutions.
And, I have an anomaly: with current MAME and a fresh mame.ini, if I change anything in mame.ini>HLSL, the game won't load and I get 'can't load D3D object'. If I load the game via MAMEPLUS+GUI, there's no 'pre' error, and the effect works - but I get some kind of access violation error after *exiting* the game. WEIRD.
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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Re: Needs more "bleed" artifacting....
[Re: mogli]
#267972 - 11/04/11 03:10 PM
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> ....I thought this 'fishbowl' effect was to simulate a curved tube. I don't recall
> seeing any games with bizarre pincushion. All the games I saw, that were functioning
> half-way decent anyway, had the images filling the screen.
Yes.. to simulate a curved screen. On a curved screen, you can adjust things so that the image is corrected to appear perfectly squared on a round tube using pincushion.
However, most arcade monitors in the arcades were never adjusted like this. They factory shipped them without pincushion adjusted... so the image lit up the entire tube.
As such, when looking at a fully lit rounded tube, it appears to bow outwards on the edges.
The fishbowl effect may not be completely accurate in how this is simulated, but its at least a start, and makes me feel more like Im looking at a much more rounded monitor. The thing I least like about it is the hard aliased edge that it creates on the border.
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| Tomu Breidah |
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No Problems, Only Solutions
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Reged: 08/14/04
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: mogli]
#267976 - 11/04/11 04:46 PM
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I don't know for sure... But you could check to see if hardware acceleration is turned down or off in your video settings.
I think I've had the same problem before and that was what was wrong. How my hardware acceleration/settings got changed - I don't know. But adobe flash player always seems to be involved somehow. 
eta: Then again, My problem was not being able to start a game in MAME. You get that message upon exiting the game. So maybe it's not related to what I've been experiencing.
Edited by T0M (11/04/11 04:50 PM)
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Tomu Breidah]
#267988 - 11/04/11 06:09 PM
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Okay, after much pissing about with HLSL, i've finally settled on the following 'look'....i dont bother with shadow mask, as i just dont like what it brings to the party, so to speak...obvioulsy with all the shitty JPEG compression, your not really seeing what i see, so i'll post my settings after the pics...if anyone wants to try my them..
#
# DIRECT3D POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
hlsl_enable 1
hlslini %g
hlsl_prescale_x 4
hlsl_prescale_y 4
hlsl_preset -1
hlsl_write
hlsl_snap_width 2560
hlsl_snap_height 2048
shadow_mask_alpha 0.00
shadow_mask_texture aperture.png
shadow_mask_x_count 320
shadow_mask_y_count 256
shadow_mask_usize 0.187500
shadow_mask_vsize 0.09375
curvature 0.02
pincushion 0.02
scanline_alpha 0.450000
scanline_size 1.25
scanline_height 0.750000
scanline_bright_scale 1.000000
scanline_bright_offset 0.750000
scanline_jitter 0.25
defocus 1.0,1.0
converge_x 0.0,0.0,0.0
converge_y 0.0,0.0,0.0
radial_converge_x 0.0,0.0,0.0
radial_converge_y 0.0,0.0,0.0
red_ratio 1.0,0.0,0.0
grn_ratio 0.0,1.0,0.0
blu_ratio 0.0,0.0,1.0
saturation 1.250000
offset 0.0,0.0,0.0
scale 1.000000,1.000000,1.000000
power 1.200000,1.200000,1.200000
floor 0.0,0.0,0.0
phosphor_life 0.200000,0.200000,0.200000
yiq_enable 0
yiq_cc 3.59754545
yiq_a 0.5
yiq_b 0.5
yiq_o 0.0
yiq_p 1.0
yiq_n 1.0
yiq_y 3.0
yiq_i 1.2
yiq_q 0.6
yiq_scan_time 52.6
yiq_phase_count 2
..I've found with these, i only have to do very minor tweaking on certain games, but 99% of the time they are great for any MAME game...
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Ziggy100]
#268011 - 11/04/11 11:08 PM
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Guys, what happens if you replace the aperature.png file with another type of overlay file? I have several png ovberlay files avaialble.
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Re: Needs more "bleed" artifacting....
[Re: StevieWunderful]
#268024 - 11/05/11 07:15 AM
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> On a curved screen, you can adjust things so that
> the image is corrected to appear perfectly squared on a round tube using pincushion.
>
> However, most arcade monitors in the arcades were never adjusted like this. They
> factory shipped them without pincushion adjusted... so the image lit up the entire
> tube.
Um. I think they intended them to fill the screen, just like TV images. -nods vigorously-
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Outrun2006]
#268025 - 11/05/11 07:25 AM
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> Guys, what happens if you replace the aperature.png file with another type of overlay
> file? I have several png ovberlay files avaialble.
You mean the aperture.png? I tried it a while back, and from what I remember, it doesn't recognize other ones.
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: Tomu Breidah]
#268028 - 11/05/11 07:44 AM
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> I don't know for sure... But you could check to see if hardware acceleration is
> turned down or off in your video settings.
>
>
>
>
> I think I've had the same problem before and that was what was wrong. How my hardware
> acceleration/settings got changed - I don't know. But adobe flash player always seems
> to be involved somehow.
>
> eta: Then again, My problem was not being able to start a game in MAME. You get that
> message upon exiting the game. So maybe it's not related to what I've been
> experiencing.
I'm getting an error pre-game with baseline mame run via command prompt; I get a seemingly different error message, post-game, with baseline run via MAMEPGUI.
Anyways, checked hardware acceleration in Windows and on my card, and they're at max, or apparently so, respectively.
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And, some images of my own....
[Re: mogli]
#268030 - 11/05/11 07:44 AM
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The first two are simply HLSL on, scanline alpha at 1.0 . What I love, and what I've been hoping for, is that regardless of vertical resolution (224 vs 240), the scanlines 'fit', while the image is full-screen. Well done.
The last image, displayed for reference of alternative preference, is of a vertical game on a horizontal monitor.
((Even with HLSL, LCDs 'draw' in raster fashion, so you get crappy lines on vertical games, unless the monitor is also turned to vertical orientation.
Hence, since my monitor is horizontal, I would prefer 'un-authentic' horizontal scanlines that look good, over crappy 'authentic' vertical lines.
Of course, at my resolution, this only works for 224x256 games; 224x288 I use DD+switchres@800x600+scanlines.png .))
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Reged: 10/25/10
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Posts: 2663
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Re: And, some images of my own....
[Re: mogli]
#268043 - 11/05/11 03:50 PM
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@mogli
mind putting your HLSL settings on pastebin for others to try out?
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Re: And, some images of my own....
[Re: B2K24]
#268100 - 11/06/11 11:08 AM
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Guys, there are two console systems in MESS, Playstation and Sega Genesis, that when ran in conjunction with HLSL, causes a large black border on the right of the screen, chopping a bit of the graphics off the right. Other consoles as well as mame displays just fine, only PSX and Genesis. Can anyone tell me why this is and which value in HLSL I need to change to align the game screen properly in these two systems?
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Re: And, some images of my own....
[Re: Outrun2006]
#268101 - 11/06/11 11:23 AM
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Re: Scanlines <> Pixel
[Re: LowRezzz]
#268102 - 11/06/11 11:40 AM
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Hi LowRezzz,
> How can get, to match the scanlines with the pixel?
Here is a quote from 'Just Desserts':
scanline_size: Globally affects the scanline count on the screen. Left at 1.0, each pixel *should* have a scanline through it (it should, and if it doesn't, it's a bug).
scanline_height: Affects the "internal height" of each individual scanline. Assuming a 1:1 ratio of scanlines to pixels, it is how much of each individual pixel is made black by the scanline and how much of it is left unaffected.
Hope that helps. 
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Re: Scanlines <> Pixel
[Re: jclampy]
#268105 - 11/06/11 01:09 PM
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Reged: 10/25/10
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Posts: 2663
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Re: And, some images of my own....
[Re: Outrun2006]
#268112 - 11/06/11 07:34 PM
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> Guys, there are two console systems in MESS, Playstation and Sega Genesis, that when
> ran in conjunction with HLSL, causes a large black border on the right of the screen,
> chopping a bit of the graphics off the right. Other consoles as well as mame displays
> just fine, only PSX and Genesis. Can anyone tell me why this is and which value in
> HLSL I need to change to align the game screen properly in these two systems?
I don't have any problems with those 2 systems in u9 using these settings. Be sure you delete all the .ini files in hlsl directory.
http://pastebin.com/sxPCtufw
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Re: And, some images of my own....
[Re: B2K24]
#268124 - 11/07/11 02:37 AM
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Pressing the tilde key makes it right again, so it's all good now
Oh and HOLY SMOKES!!!! I just realized you can adjust your HLSL settings from WITHIN the game!!!! LMAO talk about being late to the party! All this time, I've been making individual adjustments to the ini files themselves lolol I'm an idiot! This is GREAT!
Can someone here PLEASE tell me the name of the people who are responsible for creating this HSLS thing? Because I want to shake their hand...they are AWESOME!!!!  
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Posts: 9711
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Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
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Re: Needs more "bleed" artifacting....
[Re: StevieWunderful]
#268171 - 11/07/11 10:19 PM
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> Yes.. to simulate a curved screen. On a curved screen, you can adjust things so that
> the image is corrected to appear perfectly squared on a round tube using pincushion.
>
> However, most arcade monitors in the arcades were never adjusted like this. They
> factory shipped them without pincushion adjusted... so the image lit up the entire
> tube.
It's entirely possible to fill a rounded screen and display an image without any geometric distortion. Remember, CRTs were *completely* round until the mid-1950s (and "roundies" were made until ~1970 because they were cheaper to manufacture), and it's considered unusual if you can't adjust those sets to get perfect geometry, albeit with the corners missing.
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Re: Needs more "bleed" artifacting....
[Re: R. Belmont]
#268198 - 11/08/11 12:09 PM
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Hmm, I love the pinchusion effect but not too round, just a little is good.
What in the world does the "Curverture" setting do in HLSL?
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Re: Needs more "bleed" artifacting....
[Re: Outrun2006]
#268199 - 11/08/11 12:50 PM
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> Oh and HOLY SMOKES!!!! I just realized you can adjust your HLSL settings from WITHIN
> the game!!!!
Or from within your mamegui of choice.
> @mogli
>
> mind putting your HLSL settings on pastebin for others to try out?
scanline alpha at 1.0
Make sure your prescale (D3D, and HLSL) are at 1 and 0, respectively. (Also, if you have any 'strange' inis - like, I have 'vertical' and 'horizontal', which for some reason over-rule game inis - you have to figure some file compromise.)
This works for all horizontal games (displayed horizontally), and all vertical games displayed 'on their sides'/with the monitor in vertical orientation.
For example: (Of course, you could play with some things to make it more bleedy or whatever, but I prefer a sharper image. The arcade CRTs on original cabs I've seen recently are actually very close to this, whether set that way...)
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: mogli]
#270625 - 12/10/11 07:47 AM
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Well, I guess I was wrong. I just got a new/used 21" Viewsonic CRT, and I looked at DK with HLSL (hence, vertical/normal lines) with montior in horizontal orientation, desktop at 1280x1024, and whadda ya know. It looks good. As seen below.
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Re: Official HLSL thread
[Re: mogli]
#270731 - 12/11/11 09:40 PM
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it looks like you only added scanlines.
it kinda need some color bleeding... my old tv used to be like that anyway.
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