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Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
#263617 - 09/01/11 10:09 AM
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August 31, 2011
The next release is coming along. Presently, we're trying to debug a tricky (and unexpected) audio buffering problem that occasionally causes audio to crash when the frame rate hiccups. In the meantime, enjoy these videos taken by Mr. Thunderwing. There is some noticeable jitter in the music now and then, most likely caused by temporary drops in the frame rate.
star wars trilogy
scud race
http://www.trzy.org/Supermodel/WhatsNew.html
Edited by Conners (09/01/11 10:09 AM)
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| Tomu Breidah |
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No Problems, Only Solutions
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Re: Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
[Re: Conn0rs]
#263619 - 09/01/11 11:28 AM
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> scud race
>
LOL at the cat racing. 
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| Ceto |
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Re: Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
[Re: Conn0rs]
#263627 - 09/01/11 04:05 PM
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OMG! What a pleasure to watch these vids!
Great news that youve already found the cause for the sound stuttering!
And thank you for always keep us informed.
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| AnimalBear |
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Re: Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
[Re: Conn0rs]
#263628 - 09/01/11 04:12 PM
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Great news and hope that "hiccups"  gone for good. 
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Re: Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
[Re: Conn0rs]
#263629 - 09/01/11 04:50 PM
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Thanks for the first one, and for this too!
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Re: Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
[Re: Conn0rs]
#263631 - 09/01/11 05:58 PM
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WAOU!!AWSOME JOB man!!!
It s my dream to play scud race with sound and force feedback with my logitech G27 + H shiffter 
Just a question about Force feedback,is it working with this v0.2??
Supermodel is the best 3D emulator of the world!!!
Good job bart and thanks a lot! 
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SEGA FOREVER
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Re: Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
[Re: Ceto]
#263636 - 09/01/11 07:29 PM
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Stuttering is different from outright crashing. We think we know where the latter problem (which is conveniently omitted in the videos) lies, but are not yet sure exactly what the cause is. We won't release until we solve it.
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Bart
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Re: Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
[Re: AnimalBear]
#263637 - 09/01/11 07:30 PM
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I think you misunderstood. The hiccups will be there until performance vastly improves, which means the CPU cores and rendering engine need to be overhauled. They aren't that big of a deal, except for the fact that they can trigger unrecoverable sound problems, which is what the present hold-up is.
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Bart
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Re: Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
[Re: bart lover]
#263639 - 09/01/11 07:31 PM
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Force feedback has not yet been merged into the source tree. It exists in Nik's private build but still needs some work before it's truly ready for prime time. I'm hoping it'll be included but I might have jumped the gun on that one. I'm sure it'll show up sooner than later.
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Bart
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Re: Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#263661 - 09/01/11 11:03 PM
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Hello Bart,
I just wanna say thank you for spending so much time to build the no.1 emulator in 2011. The quality of the emulation makes me believe, that the upcoming dynarec cores and the GUI for the emulator will be as good as the emulation itself.
Good luck for you (and your co-workers) and may you have fun to continue development of Supermodel in the future till it's (near) perfect!
Definitely the biggest surprise this year!
Best regards,
RetroLover
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Re: Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
[Re: Conn0rs]
#263665 - 09/01/11 11:30 PM
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its great to see so much work in only 8 months, hopefully we will have a 100% model 3 emulator at the end of the year
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arcade FTW
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Re: Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
[Re: karadaniano]
#263674 - 09/02/11 01:18 AM
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I would love to see Supermodel support The Lost World Special. 
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I would love to see it dumped first. ;) *nt*
[Re: ]
#263677 - 09/02/11 02:33 AM
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Re: I would love to see it dumped first. ;) *nt*
[Re: Bart T.]
#263684 - 09/02/11 04:28 AM
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This game is at a Chuck E Cheeses about 5 minutes from my house. Definitely worth the 1 token per play 
Videos are amazing and really nice to watch.
Thanks to everyone's wonderful work on Supermodel emulation.
I anxiously await the next release
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Re: I would love to see it dumped first. ;) *nt*
[Re: Bart T.]
#263722 - 09/02/11 02:55 PM
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Indeed! I can't wait either.
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| AnimalBear |
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100% MAME Fan Forever!
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Re: I would love to see it dumped first. ;) *nt*
[Re: ]
#263733 - 09/02/11 04:29 PM
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If i go shop i can´t get out of mt head thinking about this.
Dam! Waiting this between 2004, it's a lot of time. 
It was my first year i was collecting Mame.
Thanks again Bart. 
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Re: I would love to see it dumped first. ;) *nt*
[Re: AnimalBear]
#263746 - 09/02/11 06:21 PM
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> If i go shop i can´t get out of mt head thinking about this.
> Dam! Waiting this between 2004, it's a lot of time.
> It was my first year i was collecting Mame.
> Thanks again Bart.
Me too lol! 
I ve played all the afternoon to daytona usa,sega rally with my logitech g27(i bought it just for m2emulator and supermodel!) with excellent force feedback(thanks ELSEMI!)
I cant imagine playing scud race with perfect sound,perfect analogic control and may be a good force feedback(thanks NIK!)
I'm hoping it'll be included as soon!
Thanks again BART.
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Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Dude, what is UP with your username??! *nt*
[Re: bart lover]
#263761 - 09/02/11 08:34 PM
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> > If i go shop i can´t get out of mt head thinking about this.
> > Dam! Waiting this between 2004, it's a lot of time.
> > It was my first year i was collecting Mame.
> > Thanks again Bart.
>
> Me too lol!
> I ve played all the afternoon to daytona usa,sega rally with my logitech g27(i bought
> it just for m2emulator and supermodel!) with excellent force feedback(thanks ELSEMI!)
>
> I cant imagine playing scud race with perfect sound,perfect analogic control and may
> be a good force feedback(thanks NIK!)
> I'm hoping it'll be included as soon!
> Thanks again BART.
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Re: Dude, what is UP with your username??! *nt*
[Re: Stiletto]
#263772 - 09/02/11 09:58 PM
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Shouldn't be all that difficult to figure out. He either loves B.T. or Bart Simpson
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Re: Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
[Re: Conn0rs]
#263821 - 09/03/11 09:55 AM
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Fantastic!
Will there be support for lamp outputs at some point (much later I guess) so we can use LEDWiz and/or MAME Hooker for real lamps?
I'm hoping ElSemi can do the same for Model 2 Emulator at some point.
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Re: Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
[Re: Conn0rs]
#263822 - 09/03/11 10:45 AM
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Should make a video of Spikeout!
Great work Bart, giving us what Sega refused to give us, the ability to play Great 3d Retros like Scud Racer and Daytona 2 in the comfort of our own homes.
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Re: Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
[Re: RetroRepair]
#263854 - 09/03/11 07:44 PM
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Never thought of this but I suppose it would be easy to add at some point. The project is open source so hopefully someone volunteers to have a look 
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Re: Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#263899 - 09/04/11 10:12 AM
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Cool
It'd be great to finish off my Touring Car cab with blinky lamps
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Re: Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
[Re: Conn0rs]
#263910 - 09/04/11 04:57 PM
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Hope I'll get a new computer by Christmas 2011 and start playing these games in full speed with sound. I'm tired of my mom's laptop with Celeron and integrated graphics. I'm going to eat wings and play Sega Rally 2 all night until all my favorite games work.
Edited by MegaManX500 (09/04/11 05:12 PM)
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Re: New videos of The Lost World, Sega Rally 2, Daytona USA 2
[Re: Conn0rs]
#264028 - 09/06/11 11:18 AM
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Re: New videos of The Lost World, Sega Rally 2, Daytona USA 2
[Re: VirtuaIceMan]
#264031 - 09/06/11 11:58 AM
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Re: New videos of The Lost World, Sega Rally 2, Daytona USA 2
[Re: VirtuaIceMan]
#264032 - 09/06/11 12:23 PM
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Looking at Daytona USA 2 video, it seems some textures are missing on opponent's cars on Supermodel Emulator compare to original arcade game. Can someone confirm this?
 [/URL]
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| R. Belmont |
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"Chris Hansen, Dateline NBC. Why are you naked with a 6-pack of Natty Light?" *nt*
[Re: B2K24]
#264047 - 09/06/11 05:20 PM
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> Shouldn't be all that difficult to figure out. He either loves B.T. or Bart Simpson
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Re: New videos of The Lost World, Sega Rally 2, Daytona USA 2
[Re: JacKc]
#264061 - 09/06/11 07:15 PM
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This is a bug and I don't know what's causing it. I suspect either an unemulated 4-bit format or something related to the protection.
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In addition to the other videos posted here in this thread, pcvideogamer did an even longer video of Star Wars Trilogy showing game play from all three episodes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdW11aed9UU
And Mr. Thungerwing has a video of the Scud Race night stage running in the 64-bit build, which is fast enough for him to eliminate the audio jitter seen in the original video he made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKsIR0kZnHw
Here's the latest news: we've fixed the audio crashing problem and are in the home stretch. There is one more thing we are trying to get in there, and I have a lot of source clean-up to do in addition to prepping the web site and documentation, so please be patient Thank you!
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264070 - 09/06/11 07:47 PM
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> There is one more thing we are trying to get in there
Force Feedback? ;-)
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| Ceto |
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♥ Arcade ♥
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264077 - 09/06/11 09:40 PM
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Bart, you drive me crazy, i cant wait!!! 
Thank you for the news
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Ceto]
#264078 - 09/06/11 09:46 PM
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> Bart, you drive me crazy
That's what "bart lover" said.
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264080 - 09/06/11 09:53 PM
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I know there are a lot of variables, but have you got any sense from the testers what pc specs are needed to run it without (or almost without) sound skips?
Mr. Thunderwing listed an i5-2310 & GeForce GT530, but I'm sure FRAPS is eating plenty of resources in those videos.
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Re: More Videos
[Re: BadMouth]
#264081 - 09/06/11 10:00 PM
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I don't have any idea. I'm developing on a laptop that gets 15FPS. So don't ask me I would guess anything top of the line in the last 1-2 years should handle it okay.
Things will get better once a recompiler is in there but I'm a busy guy so there's no telling when that's going to happen (it will be a top priority after this release is wrapped up, though).
One thing that seems to be surfacing is that the CPU is more important than I thought. Because nothing big has really changed in the graphics engine since v0.1a, if you can get a solid 60FPS there, you ought to be fine with v0.2a. We have audio running in a separate thread and, thanks to Model 3's very parallel-friendly architecture, it adds no noticeable overhead to the PowerPC/video thread as long as you have a multicore processor (and I think everyone has that these days).
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264109 - 09/07/11 05:37 AM
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v0.1a runs pegged at 60.01 FPS on my driving cab.
The pc is decent, but far from bleeding edge:
3.2Ghz Athlon X2, Geforce 8600GT, 2GB DDR2.
Running XP64 with most services disabled.
Can't wait to try v0.2! 
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264127 - 09/07/11 12:00 PM
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> > Bart, you drive me crazy
>
> That's what "bart lover" said.
LOL!
I love you man!!!!!!
You will be our heros for ever,if you give us a release date!!!!
THANKS and RESPECT MAN!
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Re: More Videos
[Re: VirtuaIceMan]
#264200 - 09/08/11 03:19 AM
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> > There is one more thing we are trying to get in there
>
> Force Feedback? ;-)
I hope too!!!
Edited by bart lover (09/08/11 03:22 AM)
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Re: More Videos
[Re: bart lover]
#264223 - 09/08/11 09:51 AM
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> > > There is one more thing we are trying to get in there
> >
> > Force Feedback? ;-)
>
> I hope too!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You and me both my friend. This will be the turning point for me and words cannot express how badly I want this.
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Outrun2006]
#264226 - 09/08/11 10:41 AM
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Outrun2006]
#264230 - 09/08/11 01:47 PM
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> > > > There is one more thing we are trying to get in there
> > >
> > > Force Feedback? ;-)
> >
> > I hope too!!!
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> You and me both my friend. This will be the turning point for me and words cannot
> express how badly I want this.
O YES my friend!
I bought a G27 racing wheel for scud race and daytona...
I need force feedback effect for the best gaming experience!
BART,dont forget us please,give us a release date ,is it for this week????
...you are the best my hero!
Edited by bart lover (09/08/11 02:10 PM)
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[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Smitdogg]
#264237 - 09/08/11 04:11 PM
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+1
>BART,dont forget us please,give us a release date ,is it for this week????
Unpaid projects don't have deadlines, 
Edited by BadMouth (09/08/11 04:17 PM)
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264238 - 09/08/11 04:30 PM
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if the sound is emulated by other cpu, that means, the game might be a bit slower but the sound will be fullspeed allways?
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Re: More Videos
[Re: karadaniano]
#264256 - 09/08/11 09:12 PM
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No. Such a thing might be possible if we ran the sound thread completely independently at its own 60 Hz refresh rate but for now, it is in lock-step on a frame-by-frame basis with the CPU/graphics thread, meaning sound will stutter if the frame rate dips.
Perhaps in the future, we could investigate decoupling further (a good project for someone who wants to contribute, by the way ) One potential problem with this is music getting out of sync.
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| AnimalBear |
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100% MAME Fan Forever!
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264264 - 09/08/11 11:02 PM
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Please Bart a Virtua Striker Video! Oh Dam! I gonna cry 
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| AnimalBear |
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100% MAME Fan Forever!
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264265 - 09/08/11 11:04 PM
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> No. Such a thing might be possible if we ran the sound thread completely
> independently at its own 60 Hz refresh rate but for now, it is in lock-step on a
> frame-by-frame basis with the CPU/graphics thread, meaning sound will stutter if the
> frame rate dips.
>
> Perhaps in the future, we could investigate decoupling further (a good project for
> someone who wants to contribute, by the way ) One potential problem with this is
> music getting out of sync.
ElSemi have the emulator Sound From Model 2 100% Talk with him.
It can help about this.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: More Videos
[Re: AnimalBear]
#264266 - 09/08/11 11:13 PM
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> ElSemi have the emulator Sound From Model 2 100% Talk with him.
> It can help about this.
AFAIK ElSemi makes no attempt to sync the sound so the music can get ahead if the game is running slowly.
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| AnimalBear |
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100% MAME Fan Forever!
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Re: More Videos
[Re: R. Belmont]
#264267 - 09/08/11 11:24 PM
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> > ElSemi have the emulator Sound From Model 2 100% Talk with him.
> > It can help about this.
>
> AFAIK ElSemi makes no attempt to sync the sound so the music can get ahead if the
> game is running slowly.
Well on my PC works fine.
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| AnimalBear |
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100% MAME Fan Forever!
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Re: More Videos
[Re: AnimalBear]
#264268 - 09/08/11 11:25 PM
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> Please Bart a Virtua Striker Video! Oh Dam! I gonna cry
pcvideogamer will put the game on youtube today.
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Re: More Videos
[Re: R. Belmont]
#264271 - 09/08/11 11:54 PM
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We hadn't really thought of doing this. The more I think about it, the better it sounds, but would push the release back another week or two. Might be worth it though. I expect that most people won't be able to play Daytona USA 2 at the full frame rate and the stuttering audio is just painful to listen to. This would at least allow the music and sound effects to come through cleanly.
Edited by Bart Trzynadlowski (09/09/11 12:03 AM)
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| AnimalBear |
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100% MAME Fan Forever!
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264273 - 09/09/11 12:25 AM
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> We hadn't really thought of doing this. The more I think about it, the better it
> sounds, but would push the release back another week or two. Might be worth it
> though. I expect that most people won't be able to play Daytona USA 2 at the full
> frame rate and the stuttering audio is just painful to listen to. This would at least
> allow the music and sound effects to come through cleanly.
In Pentium IV it's 100% Possible, but a Dual-Quad it can´t.
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264274 - 09/09/11 12:36 AM
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However long it takes to do it right, we're happy to wait.
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Re: More Videos
[Re: bart lover]
#264276 - 09/09/11 12:55 AM
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> > > > > There is one more thing we are trying to get in there
> > > >
> > > > Force Feedback? ;-)
> > >
> > > I hope too!!!
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >
> > You and me both my friend. This will be the turning point for me and words cannot
> > express how badly I want this.
>
> O YES my friend!
>
> I bought a G27 racing wheel for scud race and daytona...
>
> I need force feedback effect for the best gaming experience!
>
> BART,dont forget us please,give us a release date ,is it for this week????
>
> ...you are the best my hero!
You two should get together for a circlejerk wankathon. AnimalBear might be interested in joining you. Don't expect Bart to show up, though.
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264277 - 09/09/11 02:35 AM
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I tried it, but unfortunately, SDL is not thread-safe and SDL_Delay() cannot be used to limit the rate at which two separate threads update. I have not yet been successful with SDL's timer callbacks and I fear that they don't really guarantee an adequate resolution anyway.
Has anyone done anything like this in portable, SDL code (timing two threads independently)?
In the future, a true Windows port would probably be able to handle this without too much fuss.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264289 - 09/09/11 05:22 AM
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> I tried it, but unfortunately, SDL is not thread-safe and SDL_Delay() cannot be used
> to limit the rate at which two separate threads update. I have not yet been
> successful with SDL's timer callbacks and I fear that they don't really guarantee an
> adequate resolution anyway.
SDL is threadsafe, subject to the limitations of the underlying OS. Perhaps you've heard of a multithreaded SDL app called "MAME"? The audio generation callback comes from a separate thread, so if you just drive all your audio there and give up on syncing like the users are demanding, you're done.
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Re: More Videos
[Re: R. Belmont]
#264296 - 09/09/11 05:47 AM
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You mean updating the audio (running the emulation and generating the sample data) from the audio update callback? We've just been using it to manage an audio stream that is updated in the sound board thread in a virtually identical way to how it's done in SDLMAME.
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264308 - 09/09/11 12:36 PM
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| AnimalBear |
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100% MAME Fan Forever!
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Reged: 04/29/10
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Posts: 206
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Loc: Portugal, Porto
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264309 - 09/09/11 02:03 PM
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> You mean updating the audio (running the emulation and generating the sample data)
> from the audio update callback? We've just been using it to manage an audio stream
> that is updated in the sound board thread in a virtually identical way to how it's
> done in SDLMAME.
Bart the Virtua Striker 2 is too slow why?
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Matty_]
#264314 - 09/09/11 03:38 PM
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> > > > > > There is one more thing we are trying to get in there
> > > > >
> > > > > Force Feedback? ;-)
> > > >
> > > > I hope too!!!
> > >
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >
> > > You and me both my friend. This will be the turning point for me and words cannot
> > > express how badly I want this.
> >
> > O YES my friend!
> >
> > I bought a G27 racing wheel for scud race and daytona...
> >
> > I need force feedback effect for the best gaming experience!
> >
> > BART,dont forget us please,give us a release date ,is it for this week????
> >
> > ...you are the best my hero!
>
> You two should get together for a circlejerk wankathon. AnimalBear might be
> interested in joining you. Don't expect Bart to show up, though.
You can laugh at too for a long time that you want, but that will not prevent me from sharing my passion for Sega!
HA,HA,HA b..ch !GO TO HELL...
ps: sorry for my bad english guys!thanks all.
Edited by bart lover (09/09/11 03:51 PM)
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Re: More Videos
[Re: bart lover]
#264315 - 09/09/11 04:27 PM
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> New videos from "PCVIDEOGAMER" of Lemans 24,sega rally 2,virtua striker 2 ,virtual on
> and VF3!
>
> Enjoy
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvEJqQB4Eg&feature=channel_video_title
I love those "GAME OVER" jingles on the Sega racing games.
The one on Virtua Racing cracks me up every time.
>You can laugh at too for a long time that you want, but
>that will not prevent me from sharing my passion for Sega!
Too much of your passion seems to be directed toward Bart instead of Sega. 
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264321 - 09/09/11 04:46 PM
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> You mean updating the audio (running the emulation and generating the sample data)
> from the audio update callback? We've just been using it to manage an audio stream
> that is updated in the sound board thread in a virtually identical way to how it's
> done in SDLMAME.
Right. If you want to thread the audio off completely independently, just run everything from the callback. SDLMAME doesn't work that way because we're MAME and we demand synchronization, breakups be damned, but you're making a performance emu so you have some latitude ;-)
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Re: More Videos
[Re: AnimalBear]
#264322 - 09/09/11 04:48 PM
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> Bart the Virtua Striker 2 is too slow why?
Because futbol games have 22 animated high-detail characters on screen at once (plus referees, etc, etc). Fighting games have 2. Racing games have maybe 10 or 12.
People don't realize it, but football games (both FIFA and NFL) are among the most demanding things you can run on any given piece of hardware.
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Re: More Videos
[Re: R. Belmont]
#264323 - 09/09/11 05:10 PM
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> > Bart the Virtua Striker 2 is too slow why?
>
> Because futbol games have 22 animated high-detail characters on screen at once (plus
> referees, etc, etc). Fighting games have 2. Racing games have maybe 10 or 12.
>
> People don't realize it, but football games (both FIFA and NFL) are among the most
> demanding things you can run on any given piece of hardware.
but what about the fact of the same 3d model is used for all the players (with face modifications), plus the referee is not shown in vs2 series, and it has allways the same background, for example scud race has more than 30 cars, and a lot of detailed backgrounds, and is the most solid game of all, maybe cause it was the game with most work on it?
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Posts: 9711
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Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
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Re: More Videos
[Re: karadaniano]
#264324 - 09/09/11 05:47 PM
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> but what about the fact of the same 3d model is used for all the players (with face
> modifications), plus the referee is not shown in vs2 series, and it has allways the
> same background, for example scud race has more than 30 cars, and a lot of detailed
> backgrounds, and is the most solid game of all, maybe cause it was the game with most
> work on it?
Doesn't matter. The 22 player models aren't all in the same pose, so the fact that the source model data is identical is irrelevant. They have to be processed as 22 individual high-poly characters, and the animation processing is by far the most expensive part. And cars are much cheaper to animate than people. There's no bone hierarchies, no inverse kinematics to calculate, and no motion-capture data to parse. Any half-decent matrix stack setup makes spinning 4 tires trivial. Having seen Scud Race run in wireframe in an emulator, it also has far fewer polys per car even in the close-up view than the players in VS2.
The proof is in the pudding: Scud Race uses less than 25% of the available power of the PowerPC CPU in Step 1.0 (SuperModel currently gets its performance via what MAME calls "idle cheats", so games that run slower mean they are idle less). VS2 uses nearly all of it.
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| AnimalBear |
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100% MAME Fan Forever!
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Re: More Videos
[Re: R. Belmont]
#264330 - 09/09/11 07:16 PM
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> > Bart the Virtua Striker 2 is too slow why?
>
> Because futbol games have 22 animated high-detail characters on screen at once (plus
> referees, etc, etc). Fighting games have 2. Racing games have maybe 10 or 12.
>
> People don't realize it, but football games (both FIFA and NFL) are among the most
> demanding things you can run on any given piece of hardware.
You explain one thing i now long time ago.
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Re: More Videos
[Re: R. Belmont]
#264333 - 09/09/11 07:28 PM
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that make sense,
so the dynamic recompiler will be the only way for those who want to use supermodel with their core 2 duos
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Re: More Videos
[Re: R. Belmont]
#264335 - 09/09/11 07:35 PM
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What you write is almost certainly true, but it's what's happening on the PowerPC that's causing the slow down, not the graphics. Scud Race is slower than VS2 over here because it really does push more polygons around. Daytona USA 2 is easily among the most demanding games, in all respects, running on Supermodel.
VS2 runs at 60FPS for a lot of people, I think, but even then, the in-game time is about 1.4X-1.5X slower than it ought to be. And I suspect it's for the reasons you say: the PowerPC isn't sitting around idle.
But we have noticed that playing with the VBL timing helps a bit. Now that I have another week or so of breathing room with Supermodel, I can try to tweak the VBL timing and see if it helps any.
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Re: More Videos
[Re: R. Belmont]
#264336 - 09/09/11 07:39 PM
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I tried a very naive implementation last night. It has potential but it is still a bit jerky. Because the sound callback only fetches 512 samples at a time, while a complete frame is 735, you end up getting back-to-back emulation updates too quickly. I'm also getting some weird performance coupling between the main and audio threads that wasn't there before and can grind the emulator down to single digit frame rates permanently if a hiccup occurs somewhere (like loading a state).
We just need to be smarter about buffering. Hopefully over this weekend, we'll have a new system in place. It's definitely doable and I think it's the way to go considering that many users might only get 50 FPS in some games. That's enough to be playable but right now, audio is unbearable at anything below 60 FPS. This should alleviate that.
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Re: More Videos
[Re: bart lover]
#264337 - 09/09/11 07:53 PM
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I never realized that Wolf from VF3 looks so much like Mario Batali...
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264338 - 09/09/11 07:59 PM
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so the next realease will take a couple of weeks more.
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Re: More Videos
[Re: karadaniano]
#264340 - 09/09/11 08:23 PM
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Nobody likes to promise release dates on unpaid projects for this very reason. Admittedly, it was my fault for being too suggestive about an impending release. I'm trying to strike the right balance between keeping users informed, because I know they appreciate that, and not building up unrealistic expectations.
I gave my testers free license to upload videos and they've done a great job showing Supermodel in a positive light. I enjoy watching them myself because my PC can't run Supermodel at 60 FPS. Even though this is still an alpha version, trust me when I say it is not ready yet. We are busy integrating a few more things that will make the experience more pleasant for a larger number of users, so bear with us, and try to forget about it for the next week or two. It'll come soon enough.
By the way, karadaniano, it is entirely your fault that we're looking at rewriting the audio buffering code But don't feel bad, I think everyone will appreciate the result! We're smacking ourselves over here for not thinking of doing it this way in the first place. That part shouldn't take long...
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264342 - 09/09/11 08:59 PM
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hahaha well, i feel good for being "helpful" in that way,
the anxiety we may have is not your fault obviously
so i only have thankful words for you and your project
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264345 - 09/09/11 09:13 PM
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> What you write is almost certainly true, but it's what's happening on the PowerPC
> that's causing the slow down, not the graphics.
Correct. The graphics board doesn't perform the animation calculations. Even on modern GPUs that's normally a CPU task.
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Good luck and good work BART!
I know you can do miracles!I have full confidence in you!
It s very hard to waiting for this great emulator!
I m very excited to play all these awesome model3 games with good sound!
Thanks a lot BART.
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
Edited by bart lover (09/09/11 09:33 PM)
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Re: More Videos
[Re: bart lover]
#264596 - 09/13/11 10:36 AM
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Re: More Videos
[Re: bart lover]
#264739 - 09/15/11 09:32 PM
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To Bart Trzynadlowski.
Many people wish if one day the Model 3 emulator have cheats support as Mame.
Due to the difficulty of many of the Model 3 games, cheat support makes the experience much more satisfying.
Mr. Bart Trzynadlowski could you implement the mame cheat system (or similar) in your Model 3 emu?
Thanks for your support,
Regards micro.
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Re: More Videos
[Re: bart lover]
#264746 - 09/16/11 02:31 AM
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Re: More Videos
[Re: bart lover]
#264761 - 09/16/11 09:12 AM
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> Here you have a round of daytona usa 2 with the latest build of Supermodel.
> It has full working Sound Emulation and very good working FORCE FEEDBACK
> EFFECTS!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCZT3uu7GbU&feature=channel_video_title
>
>
> THANKS to BART and NIK,all beta testers and all sega fans!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wait a second who is uploading these beta videos? Did something change in the latest beta that incorporated proper force feedback? Please explain because I'm getting a hard on...
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Outrun2006]
#264766 - 09/16/11 11:30 AM
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> Wait a second who is uploading these beta videos? Did something change in the latest
> beta that incorporated proper force feedback? Please explain because I'm getting a
> hard on...
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Re: More Videos
[Re: bart lover]
#264768 - 09/16/11 02:44 PM
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Oh wow!
Can't wait to get this in my cab and try it out on the Daytona feedback motor
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Re: More Videos
[Re: RetroRepair]
#264785 - 09/16/11 07:08 PM
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> Oh wow!
>
> Can't wait to get this in my cab and try it out on the Daytona feedback motor
I've only ever seen happ parts used.
Do you have a build thread or pics somewhere?
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Re: More Videos
[Re: BadMouth]
#264786 - 09/16/11 07:17 PM
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Re: More Videos
[Re: RetroRepair]
#264789 - 09/16/11 07:51 PM
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Thanks.
Pretty cool stuff. Doesn't look that simple to me, but I'm a bit schematically challenged. (I will still study it until I understand it)
If someone has a Sega driving cab, it's nice to know that ffb can be done without swapping out the controls.
I'm using an industrial servo amp and 24v happ motor, as the ones I've seen before have been done.
It's not in the cab yet(cab currently has a logitech momo in it).
It should be ready around the time the new Supermodel is released.
Edited by BadMouth (09/16/11 07:53 PM)
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Re: More Videos
[Re: BadMouth]
#264797 - 09/16/11 08:21 PM
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It should be noted however it's only possible with Daytona/Virtua Racing panels. Anything after that used different motors.
The concept is this; the Logitech feedback signals get amplified then shoved over to the AC motor on the Daytona panel. At the same time, the Logitech signal is converted to something the 24v clutch can use (on/off signals). This is adjusted by the pots which setup as in the tutorial will give effects very close to how it felt originally. So long as the Nebula ini is set up correctly.
I had the AMC amp in mine previously and while it felt ok, it wasn't as good as this. I like the centering spring, it's much easier to feel where the middle is. Though both are a pretty good work out!
Edited by RetroRepair (09/16/11 08:28 PM)
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Re: More Videos
[Re: microsnk]
#264798 - 09/16/11 08:51 PM
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How can Model 3 games be difficult if you have infinite quarters?
I'm not opposed to a cheat engine but it doesn't make much sense until a GUI is added. Supermodel is open source so if someone wants to add a cheat engine that works well with it (it would be easy to hook this functionality into Supermodel's debugger), they are free to contribute code!
> To Bart Trzynadlowski.
>
> Many people wish if one day the Model 3 emulator have cheats support as Mame.
>
> Due to the difficulty of many of the Model 3 games, cheat support makes the
> experience much more satisfying.
>
> Mr. Bart Trzynadlowski could you implement the mame cheat system (or similar) in your
> Model 3 emu?
>
> Thanks for your support,
>
> Regards micro.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Posts: 9711
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Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264799 - 09/16/11 08:56 PM
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> How can Model 3 games be difficult if you have infinite quarters?
That and several of them are driving games. Cheats don't help much there unless it's something lame like "player car is always 1st place regardless of where they are" or something
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Re: More Videos
[Re: R. Belmont]
#264803 - 09/16/11 09:26 PM
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Also, there are difficulty and timer options in the service menu to make the games easier.
....begging for ports can't be far behind. 
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Re: More Videos
[Re: BadMouth]
#264812 - 09/17/11 01:40 AM
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I agree. There is no point to having those kind of cheats in racing games. 90% of the fun is actually learning how to drive the cars around the track in the fastest way.
The other 10%(in Model 3's case at least) is admiring the graphics
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Re: More Videos
[Re: RetroRepair]
#264813 - 09/17/11 01:49 AM
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> Oh wow!
>
> Can't wait to get this in my cab and try it out on the Daytona feedback motor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nicely done my nickle
Don't have room for a cab but decided to build my own racing setup instead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfO_EPKIBcU
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Re: More Videos
[Re: Outrun2006]
#264825 - 09/17/11 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Don't have room for a cab but decided to build my own racing setup instead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfO_EPKIBcU
Holy crap that's some serious hardware!
Screw arcade games, that's a real simulator. I'll bet DiRT gives you a good work out on that thing!
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Re: More Videos
[Re: RetroRepair]
#264886 - 09/18/11 10:17 AM
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> Don't have room for a cab but decided to build my own racing setup instead
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfO_EPKIBcU
>
> Holy crap that's some serious hardware!
>
> Screw arcade games, that's a real simulator. I'll bet DiRT gives you a good work out
> on that thing!
>>>>>>
Thanks. Yeah Dirt 3 is a real work out. Now you can see why FFB is so important to me in racing games. I still can't believe Sega did not put it into OutRun 2006. Just smh 
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Re: Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
[Re: Bart T.]
#264887 - 09/18/11 10:40 AM
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Force feedback has not yet been merged into the source tree. It exists in Nik's
> private build but still needs some work before it's truly ready for prime time. I'm
> hoping it'll be included but I might have jumped the gun on that one. I'm sure it'll
> show up sooner than later.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
OK, so it's been about 20 days since Bart posted this message. Then recently a video was posted on youtube showing a "DrGroni" playing Daytona 2 WITH, according to him, FULL working force feedback! After reading all the comments from this DrGroni guy, I have drawn several conclusions form this:
A)DrGroni is in fact Nik.
B)Nik, AKA DrGroni, has finally cracked the golden egg, and has made serious progress in getting FFB fully working in Supermodel since Bart posted that message above.
C)Bart wanted to keep the fact that FFB is now fully working properly thanks to Nik/DrGroni, a secret. This is because he knows several of us are salivating over this one feature and wanted to surprise us all with the announcement. Unfortunately now the cat's out of the bag, thanks to that youtube video.
D)Knowing this, I expect Bart to offer no comment on the matter, but it's to say we should all take his silence as a "YES"
E)I'm going to have a heart attack once I can play Daytona 2 with full working FFB
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Index 
Threaded 
Supermodel Emulator Update + videos
Reply
[Re: 
gone for good. 
