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Tech on Tap
Reged: 11/17/11
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Some pointers on PC replacement for arcade
#268853 - 11/17/11 07:06 PM


Hello all. My first post; I apologize for the length, but I'm trying to give as much detail as I can. I am not a MAME expert, although I have installed/played it on PC; nor am I an arcade aficionado, but I DO know PC's very well. If I ask a newbie question, please beat me gently...

My question has to do with how to replace the entire PC on an arcade with the least amount of change and config necessary. I need for the replacement to appear transparent to the user and require the least amount of configuration/software installation by me.

I have been asked to build a new replacement PC for an arcade that has a dead mobo. I will be using new retail parts, no refurbs or retros. The arcade is a stand-up style cabinet with two player controls and a shelf for standard mouse/keyboard. The arcade has an arcade TV-type monitor with a PCB panel that appears to be digital (no vacuum tubes). I do not know the type/model/etc of the arcade,tube, or controls.

The PC was an older mid-tower with a K7 (ECS K7S5A) mobo, Athlon XP 1800+, 500MB RAM, and an AGP VGA vid card, all running under WinXP with MAME32 version 0.80.0. The hard drive was corrupted as a result of the slow death of the mobo. I was however, able to repair the drive and grab an image of the disk that is almost 100%. The mobo is dead and the HD is gasping. My thinking was that it was better to build a new system rather than try to piece that one together on new PCB.

I noted that the controls on the arcade (buttons/joystick/etc) are connected to the PC via a PS2 cable plugged into the keyboard port and the mouse is plugged into the mouse PS2 port. The video was transferred from the AGP card via D-Sub output to the monitor control board via a standard VGA extension cable that is wired into the monitor PCB panel.

My biggest concerns are making sure I have compatible video output and arcade controls input/output without having to tinker with the arcade (non-PC) hardware. I had hoped to use onboard graphics to cut costs, but I've read that some games require AGP. How would I know? I'd also like to use the existing disk image files I already have as much as possible in the new PC so that I can transfer the same games/configs, etc. (again, I want the upgrade to be transparent to the user).

My assumptions:

- that a sub 3Ghz AM3/DDR3 single core Sempron system with onboard graphics is plenty adequate
- that it might be a good idea to upgrade to current MAME version.
- that I need PS2 connectors on the new mobo.
- that I can simply copy the ROMs and the ROM ini's from the old disk to the new.
- that there are controller config's/ini's within the MAME installation that I need to keep and transfer.
- that WinXP autostarts MAME.

That's more assumption that I am comfortable with, so I'd appreciate any knowledgeable opinions/thoughts on hardware requirements, whether my assumptions are even close to reality, and whether or not I'm on the right track. I'm especially interested in any "gotchas" that I need to watch for. I DO NOT want to install a new PC and find that the hardware, controllers, etc. don't work or that I have to spend hours rewiring, installing 4000+ ROMs or editing config files.

Thanks in advance!



Joel
Tech on Tap
http://www.mytechontap.com



redk9258
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Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 3968
Loc: Troy, Illinois USA
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Re: Some pointers on PC replacement for arcade new [Re: Tech on Tap]
#268874 - 11/17/11 09:45 PM


You might be best off replacing the motherboard with the same model or maybe repairing the one you have. Are there bulging caps on the motherboard? That is a common problem with some motherboards, although I'm not sure about this particular model.

If you change the hardware, won't that possibly void the Windows license, causing you to buy a new one? That's if it is an OEM version.

What you have is a can of worms. If you upgrade anything, you will end up doing a lot of work. The ROMs do change. If you update MAME from version 0.80, there will be massive ROM changes.

So basically, if you don't want to spend a bunch of time and money, you are probably best off repairing or replacing the motherboard and installing a new hard drive. Anything else opens up a can of worms!



Tech on Tap
Reged: 11/17/11
Posts: 6
Loc: East Coast
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Re: Some pointers on PC replacement for arcade new [Re: redk9258]
#268876 - 11/17/11 09:58 PM


Thanks for the response, redk9258!

We will be using properly licensed installation of WinXP, so that's fine. Replacing the mobo with same is not an option, considering the age of the hardware, the owner is not interested in paying for a 10+ year old mobo. I can't say I blame them.

So, you're saying the ROM's may or may not work with a newer version of MAME? Why would MAME not maintain backward compatibility with ROM's? I thought the whole idea was to play older games? (Not being sarcastic, I'm really asking).

So, let's say we upgrade MAME and ROM's and we stay below 0.107 in order to avoid the newer rendering system, would that help? Are we still opening the can o' wormies?



Joel
Tech on Tap
http://www.mytechontap.com



redk9258
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Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 3968
Loc: Troy, Illinois USA
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Re: Some pointers on PC replacement for arcade new [Re: Tech on Tap]
#268877 - 11/17/11 10:39 PM


Best answer here...

http://mamedev.org/devwiki/index.php/FAQ...hat_happened.3F



R. Belmont
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Re: Some pointers on PC replacement for arcade new [Re: Tech on Tap]
#268878 - 11/17/11 10:40 PM


> I have been asked to build a new replacement PC for an arcade that has a dead mobo.

Just to clarify, you mean it's an arcade-style cabinet that some private person is using, and not a MAME cabinet being used to make money in an arcade, right?



Tech on Tap
Reged: 11/17/11
Posts: 6
Loc: East Coast
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Re: Some pointers on PC replacement for arcade new [Re: R. Belmont]
#268892 - 11/18/11 12:24 AM


Yes, R.Belmont, I mean a privately owned arcade-style cabinet in a private home.



Joel
Tech on Tap
http://www.mytechontap.com



Tech on Tap
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Posts: 6
Loc: East Coast
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Re: Some pointers on PC replacement for arcade new [Re: redk9258]
#268894 - 11/18/11 12:27 AM


Gotcha. Thanks for the link!



Joel
Tech on Tap
http://www.mytechontap.com



Heihachi_73
I am the Table!
Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 1074
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Re: Some pointers on PC replacement for arcade new [Re: Tech on Tap]
#270276 - 12/05/11 01:33 PM


There's nothing wrong with the 'new' video rendering system, just as long as your graphics isn't limited to 24-bit mode (as opposed to 32-bit). The best thing to do is just see how the latest MAME runs on your system, if not, stick with the one that works best for you.

The only changes you'll see is if you used the standard DirectDraw mode in 0.80, the 'classic' MAME look is a thing of the past; stretching the video output to a rectangle inside the closest screen resolution and adding fake scanlines has been replaced with a simple fill-the-screen technique, which maintains the monitor's proper aspect ratio (e.g. Street Fighter II isn't supposed to look wide, the original game took up the entire monitor space without a letterbox effect). You can still set up 1:1 screen resolutions per game if you want, that way it won't look any different on an arcade monitor (although, depending on your video card, it might baulk at resolutions under 640x480 or 640x400).



Tech on Tap
Reged: 11/17/11
Posts: 6
Loc: East Coast
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Re: Some pointers on PC replacement for arcade new [Re: Heihachi_73]
#270292 - 12/05/11 07:10 PM


Thanks for that info.

Fact is, I'm doing this for a customer and don't have the time or the inclination for a lot of software installation/configuration. The customer isn't interested either, so we're moving forward with the original install.

I do have another query, however; I installed the new system and started up. Windows xp startup sound blasted clearly out of the cabinet speaker system, but the video on the screen was unintelligible, although I could see movement when I moved mouse and right-clicked a desktop menu. I recalled that I had left the settings on for my bench monitor, so they were 1024x768/32bit. I didn't have a monitor with me, so had to take back to shop to reset video at Winxp default VGA 640x480 at 16bit. Is it likely that this was the issue or am I facing something worse? I did check the video controls on the arcade and that was not the problem.

I was able to see that the monitor is an Orion a48jll40x (Daewoo) and is being driven by a Wells Gardner board. The VGA connector is a standard VGA, but with only 12 pins, as follows: (x marks no pin)

. . . . .
. . . x .
. x . . x

I am going back tomorrow to retry and will have new secondary monitor with me, so can make changes to XP config. Any suggestions or advise is appreciated...

TIA



Joel
Tech on Tap
http://www.mytechontap.com



Tech on Tap
Reged: 11/17/11
Posts: 6
Loc: East Coast
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Re: Some pointers on PC replacement for arcade new [Re: Tech on Tap]
#270918 - 12/14/11 05:44 PM


Hey, I just wanted to say "thank you!" to all who posted here and helped out. I made the changes to the video output in Windows and everything was perfect. So, the story is, I was able to get this client up and running again with a new system.


  • mATX Slim Computer Case w/ 275 watt PSU.
  • AMD Phenom II X2 560 3.3GHZ dual core CPU
  • Asus M4N68T-M mATX motherboard
  • 4GB DDR3-1333 Dual Channel Memory
  • 40GB 7200rpm SATA hard drive


Copied their old disk contents onto new disk, started up mame32 and everything was okeedokee. Installed new PC into arcade, hooked 'er up to the console and monitor panel, and played a game. Nice!!

I'm happy, customer's happy... happy customer happily pays. Life is good.


techontap



Joel
Tech on Tap
http://www.mytechontap.com



StilettoAdministrator
They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
Reged: 03/07/04
Posts: 6472
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Re: Some pointers on PC replacement for arcade new [Re: Tech on Tap]
#270929 - 12/14/11 07:22 PM


Really puzzled by your monitor situation.

Much of the reason people use cabs is to get that "authentic flicker" of 15KHz CRTs. I would not be surprised to discover your old AGP video card was an ArcadeVGA from Ultimarc.

The question then becomes, why are you getting proper video output now? With your new system you are likely not using the AGP video card. And... you struggled at first.

Perhaps it's a tube and controller capable of 31Khz, which would be why VGA at 640x480 is working... but then... you will likely soon receive a call from your arcade owner saying that the sound is choppy in some games, and before it was smooth, or something. *puzzled*

- Stiletto


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