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grobda
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Open Source/Copy Left Hardware Mame on an FPGA ?
#272019 - 01/02/12 07:06 PM


Read this page here.

The look at this page here.

There's already this (thread) but I'm not sure if it's completely open source/copy left. There's the potential here to produce something like the NanoNote.



I'd love to see a handheld open/copyleft mame gaming device. That would be really cool



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redk9258
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Re: Open Source/Copy Left Hardware Mame on an FPGA ? new [Re: grobda]
#272021 - 01/02/12 07:15 PM


Since FPGA is replacing real hardware, you do not need MAME, just the ROMs.



grobda
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Re: Open Source/Copy Left Hardware Mame on an FPGA ? new [Re: redk9258]
#272026 - 01/02/12 08:15 PM


But MAME describes the chips in code. So it's a reference to implementing the original chip. This is what MAME was invented to achieve. There's a mention of a MAME driver on one of those pages I linked.



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R. Belmont
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Re: Open Source/Copy Left Hardware Mame on an FPGA ? new [Re: grobda]
#272126 - 01/03/12 06:20 PM


People have been emulating systems with FPGAs since before PC-based emulators. Red is correct; there is no MAME involvement in this sort of thing, and frequently MAME is not detailed enough for doing working FPGA circuit simulations. People creating FPGA emulations generally generate more useful information for MAMEdev than the reverse.

http://www.fpgaarcade.com/



grobda
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Re: Open Source/Copy Left Hardware Mame on an FPGA ? new [Re: R. Belmont]
#272150 - 01/03/12 09:19 PM


Oh come on. I'm just pointing out the amazing possibilities of open source hardware here. Does that not interest you ? Don't tell me "there's no MAME involvement" when MAME must be one of the most influential emu projects ever !


Quote:


MikeJ
Tuesday, June 5th, 2007

Finally got Frogger sound working !!! There are many small differences between Scramble and Frogger boards - mainly address pin swaps, but there are a few hard to find ones. In Scramble one of the AY3-8910 sound chips uses bits 7,6,5 & 4 as inputs, but in Frogger it's bits 7,6, *3* & 4. "5" and "3" look really similar on the old hand drawn schematic. I should have looked in the MAME driver more carefully, they found it





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R. Belmont
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Re: Open Source/Copy Left Hardware Mame on an FPGA ? new [Re: grobda]
#272201 - 01/04/12 07:39 PM


> Oh come on. I'm just pointing out the amazing possibilities of open source hardware
> here. Does that not interest you ?

I think it's extremely cool, but the practicality is somewhat limited given the "emulator" at that point becomes effectively a dedicated PC that needs its own monitor and speakers and whatever.

> Don't tell me "there's no MAME involvement" when
> MAME must be one of the most influential emu projects ever !

MAME, surprisingly, is not terribly influential even though it's widely used. Aside from Final Burn Alpha, no other emulator out there does things even remotely the way MAME does. This even extends to multi-system emulators, where each "driver" is a self-contained complete emulator on its own rather than using a library of shared software components. I just read a thread on a non-emulation-related technical site that suggested MESS is all wrong for using that approach when it could simply concatenate a bunch of high-quality GPL emulators like Mednafen does.

Even the concept of having the source code available continues to be resisted by some high-profile emulators, although that situation at least has gotten a lot better.



grobda
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Re: Open Source/Copy Left Hardware Mame on an FPGA ? new [Re: R. Belmont]
#272207 - 01/04/12 11:19 PM


> > Oh come on. I'm just pointing out the amazing possibilities of open source hardware
> > here. Does that not interest you ?
>
> I think it's extremely cool, but the practicality is somewhat limited given the
> "emulator" at that point becomes effectively a dedicated PC that needs its own
> monitor and speakers and whatever.
>
> > Don't tell me "there's no MAME involvement" when
> > MAME must be one of the most influential emu projects ever !
>
> MAME, surprisingly, is not terribly influential even though it's widely used. Aside
> from Final Burn Alpha, no other emulator out there does things even remotely the way
> MAME does. This even extends to multi-system emulators, where each "driver" is a
> self-contained complete emulator on its own rather than using a library of shared
> software components. I just read a thread on a non-emulation-related technical site
> that suggested MESS is all wrong for using that approach when it could simply
> concatenate a bunch of high-quality GPL emulators like Mednafen does.
>
> Even the concept of having the source code available continues to be resisted by some
> high-profile emulators, although that situation at least has gotten a lot better.

Ok, I may have quite a simplistic view of MAME having not been involved in the coding of it. My understanding is that it has the most faithful and accurate emulation of games due to the focus on the historical documentation of the board hardware rather than just emulation per se.

I can see how MAME way would not necessarily be the best way to implement these games in an FPGA. But I was thinking of an implementation in logic that would retain the historical aspect. For example part of the OS cold show a graphic of the actual board hardware as implemented in the FPGA ... much like some arcade machines show at bootup. A custom programmed FPGA would be an emulator ...


Quote:


In computing, an emulator is hardware or software or both that duplicates (or emulates) the functions of a first computer system [...]




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulator

However it would reproduce the hardware as used on the original boards. ROMS would still need to be obtained by the user to avoid copyright infringement. There might be some patent issues with reproducing some hardware in an FPGA especially if the unit is sold for profit and/or cloned from the open sources by various companies. I need to look into this some more. Could a unit be made with an unprogrammed FPGA to avoid all the copyright/patent issues ... ? Then the user would program it themselves to reproduce whatever classic arcade board. Or if they're not bothered about total accuracy they could program the board with some other method of emulation.

I just find it intriguing that that it could actually be possible to community build a unit like this. It could be the new DS or Pandora and might allow gaming with some games that struggle even on high end PC's.



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R. Belmont
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Re: Open Source/Copy Left Hardware Mame on an FPGA ? new [Re: grobda]
#272213 - 01/05/12 12:21 AM


> Could a unit be made with an unprogrammed FPGA to avoid
> all the copyright/patent issues ... ?

FPGAs normally *are* unprogrammed; you upload a bitstream and they instantly reconfigure, as many times as you like. It's possible to make and sell them preconfigured, but obviously that's not useful in this instance.

FPGArcade.com actually made and sold a small number of a little box with an unprogrammed FPGA, A/V outputs, and an ARM CPU to assist in programming the FPGA. You upload the bitstream for whatever system you want to emulate from your PC and it goes. Add built-in controls, a screen, and battery power and you're good to go (I'm sure it'd take Ben Heck about a minute and a half ;-)



grobda
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Re: Open Source/Copy Left Hardware Mame on an FPGA ? new [Re: R. Belmont]
#272219 - 01/05/12 04:12 AM


Nooo, I don't want to start a line of celebrity console products, lol



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grobda
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Re: Open Source/Copy Left Hardware Mame on an FPGA ? new [Re: R. Belmont]
#272874 - 01/13/12 06:14 PM


I just found out that according to the Nintendo DS Lite DSTWO Supercard SDK that that card actually has an FPGA. Although it looks like their entire system would have to be replaced to actually implement in logic an arcade board of some kind. Note that this kind of facility on the DS would really be for arcade/mame affectionardos that want to run a rom on something as close as possible to the original hardware.



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R. Belmont
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Re: Open Source/Copy Left Hardware Mame on an FPGA ? new [Re: grobda]
#273630 - 01/21/12 01:32 AM


Their FPGA is pre-programmed from the factory and handles interfacing the thing to the DS. So even if its unlocked for user bitstreams trying to upload one would likely brick the Supercard.

Right now the GP2X Cannoo, Dingoo A320, and OpenPandora are the kings of handheld emulation (all of them have orders of magnitude more CPU and GPU power than a DS Lite, and they're all DRM-free and require no special cards or hacking). Would be interesting if someone made a portable version of the FPGAArcade board once more emulations were available for it though



grobda
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Re: Open Source/Copy Left Hardware Mame on an FPGA ? new [Re: R. Belmont]
#273633 - 01/21/12 02:12 AM


Yeah, I hear you. I kinda wish I'd got one of these other DRM free devices as much as I love my DS Lite. There is a lot of hysteria surrounding using the expansion cards with the DS. However there is hope. The EFF passed a case in the USA making it legal to jailbreak the iPhone and run "unauthorised" applications on it.

EFF Wins New Legal Protections for Video Artists, Cell Phone
Jailbreakers, and Unlockers

https://www.eff.org/press/archives/2010/07/26

Maybe we will see this one day with the DS.

What might really help a portable version of the FPGAArcade board would be a way to get legal versions of roms for it. I would like to replace all the roms I have with legal, authorised versions (I have copies that I downloaded before 2003 but I no longer use the rom download sites as I think they harm the community).

> Their FPGA is pre-programmed from the factory and handles interfacing the thing to
> the DS. So even if its unlocked for user bitstreams trying to upload one would likely
> brick the Supercard.
>
> Right now the GP2X Cannoo, Dingoo A320, and OpenPandora are the kings of handheld
> emulation (all of them have orders of magnitude more CPU and GPU power than a DS
> Lite, and they're all DRM-free and require no special cards or hacking). Would be
> interesting if someone made a portable version of the FPGAArcade board once more
> emulations were available for it though



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B2K24
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Re: Open Source/Copy Left Hardware Mame on an FPGA ? new [Re: R. Belmont]
#274091 - 01/26/12 02:00 AM


> Right now the GP2X Cannoo, Dingoo A320, and OpenPandora are the kings of handheld
> emulation (all of them have orders of magnitude more CPU and GPU power than a DS

You could list the PSP as being pretty much completely open these days and It's emulation is really amazing.

I wouldn't dare run that outdated MAME port on it though, but CPS1/CPS2/MVSPSP, gpSP, NesterJ, PCEP, PicoDrive, & others are amazing on a 2001 slim



R. Belmont
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Re: Open Source/Copy Left Hardware Mame on an FPGA ? new [Re: B2K24]
#277157 - 02/24/12 07:03 PM


> You could list the PSP as being pretty much completely open these days

I programmed 5 shipping PSP games, all of which star in YouTube videos on "how to pirate games on the PSP". You'll understand if I continue to endorse purpose-built emulation hardware



B2K24
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Re: Open Source/Copy Left Hardware Mame on an FPGA ? new [Re: R. Belmont]
#277937 - 03/02/12 01:00 AM


ahhh yes, I understand and respect that.
Probably 2 of the 5 are Lumines and gripshift?

I hope you program many games for Vita and it doesn't suffer the safe fate.

I'm hoping it stays hack and exploit free for many years, but it's probably wishful thinking.


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