I'm thinking about finally buying one of those superguns so that I can play "Street Fighter II" on the original hardware.
That's why I'd like to know from you: Which supergun shall I buy? It has to be one that supports six buttons per player (not including the start button) and that can handle two gamepads. I've read about superguns that support only four buttons, but that's of course unacceptable for "Street Fighter II".
Also I'd like to know: How are the coin insert and the start button implemented in this case?
And can I be sure that the buttons are correctly mapped? So, if I use a Genesis controller, are X, Y and Z mapped to light, medium and hard punch accordingly while A, B and C are light, medium and hard kick?
Since those superguns are quite expensive, I need to know that everything will work the way I need it. That's why I'm writing this post because I hope you can help me with it.
> Which supergun shall I buy? It has to be one > that supports six buttons per player (not including the start button) and that can > handle two gamepads. I've read about superguns that support only four buttons, but > that's of course unacceptable for "Street Fighter II".
The problem is, six buttons per player is not JAMMA standard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kick_harness You must find a Supergun that explicitly supports the extra button inputs found on your CPS-1 arcade PCB, maybe it has to have a separate kick harness output next to the JAMMA connector like this one:
And this one:
at 3:35 in this video you can see the JAMMA harness with an added kick harness connector:
> Also I'd like to know: How are the coin insert and the start button implemented in > this case?
Same as every other control you'll find on a Supergun. Two buttons for each player are connected to each players coin and player start pins on the JAMMA harness inside the Supergun, according to the JAMMA wiring standard.
Mine had a spring loaded 3-position switch mounted on the side that would insert a coin when pulling it downwards, and start a game when pushing it upwards.
> And can I be sure that the buttons are correctly mapped? So, if I use a Genesis > controller, are X, Y and Z mapped to light, medium and hard punch accordingly while > A, B and C are light, medium and hard kick?
A Supergun would not normally have inputs for console gamepads. Not so strange considering the whole point of a Supergun is to play arcade games with arcade controls.
Typically the only way to "remap" controls on a Supergun is to physically rewire them.
Consider building your own and your own controls. It's easy and cheap and you could get real Street Fighter controls. I've never looked into the prebuilt ones much but I've never heard of one having a wire in for a CPS kick harness. That would be interesting though if one did, like an old screw in/out speaker wire style.
In my experience, by the time you've messed about getting all sorts of parts, PSUs, pads etc, you might as well have bought a decent one in the first place.
Here's mine:
That should do everything you want and maybe a little more.
It's called a Pana Twin and is Japanese.
HTH
Cheers,
Ralph.
Coherance of posts inversely proportional to Foster's consumption!!!
> > Also I'd like to know: How are the coin insert and the start button implemented in > > this case? > > Same as every other control you'll find on a Supergun. Two buttons for each player > are connected to each players coin and player start pins on the JAMMA harness inside > the Supergun, according to the JAMMA wiring standard.
So, I need to find a supergun that actually supports eight buttons per player?
> A Supergun would not normally have inputs for console gamepads.
Well, I've seen several of those:
> Not so strange > considering the whole point of a Supergun is to play arcade games with arcade > controls.
In my case, the authentic part just needs to be audio and video. I grew up with Nintento consoles, so I'm used to a d-pad. I can't properly play with an arcade stick.
> Typically the only way to "remap" controls on a Supergun is to physically rewire > them.
If the controls are already mapped properly, this wouldn't be necessary. I don't know how the controls for that Genesis or NeoGeo controller are mapped, if they apply to the typical "Street Fighter II" button layout.
> Consider building your own and your own controls. It's easy and cheap
Yeah, if I understood anything about that stuff. I'm really not the guy to play around with that electronic stuff.
> In my experience, by the time you've messed about getting all sorts of parts, PSUs, > pads etc, you might as well have bought a decent one in the first place. > > Here's mine:
Wow! Well, that's really a monster. I was thinking about something a bit smaller. Maybe something as big as a video game console. Something that I can easily put into the closet when I'm not playing. And, as I already said: I'd prefer ports for external gamepads. I just can't play fluently with arcade controls. That's why I was hoping that maybe you can direct me to a concrete, specific supergun that has all that stuff.
> > > Also I'd like to know: How are the coin insert and the start button implemented > in > > > this case? > > > > Same as every other control you'll find on a Supergun. Two buttons for each player > > are connected to each players coin and player start pins on the JAMMA harness > inside > > the Supergun, according to the JAMMA wiring standard. > > So, I need to find a supergun that actually supports eight buttons per player?
I believe Street Fighter II uses six buttons per player? Any Supergun will have coin and start buttons, they don't count.
I don't know what you want a Supergun for if you're not going to use the controls on it anyway. Being focused on "a Supergun" you're only making this more difficult for yourself.
> > A Supergun would not normally have inputs for console gamepads. > > Well, I've seen several of those:
It's this one right? http://www.systemshock.info/supergun.htm Those are Neo Geo AES game pad ports. My Neo Geo motherboard has those as well. You can't use those for Street Fighter II anyway, they only have four buttons.
> In my case, the authentic part just needs to be audio and video. I grew up with > Nintento consoles, so I'm used to a d-pad. I can't properly play with an arcade > stick.
If you live in Europe and your TV has SCART input, then you don't need to do any conversion, you can connect the PCB directly to your TV. Make sure the SCART input on your television supports RGB video.
Then you need - a PSU for powering your Street Fighter II PCB and the video converter - the pinout for a six-button Sega Genesis controller (should be easy to find) - some wire, a soldering iron and some other tools - a female JAMMA edge connector - a Street Fighter II kick harness - some kind of box to hold the power supply and the video converter - two female DB9 connectors for connecting your Genesis controllers (*)
You can hook up the sound outputs from the JAMMA harness directly to your TV. Just be careful, arcade PCBs are much louder than standard line-level so make sure to set the volume on the PCB very low at first so you don't fry the TV's audio inputs.
Once you've learned how to solder and de-solder (practice on some trash circuit board) and you have the JAMMA + kick harness pinouts and the pinout for your Genesis controller it's really only a matter of connecting the dots. 12V out goes to 12V in, P1 up goes to P1 up etc.
Buttons 2-6 share pins with other outputs so hooking it up to JAMMA straight through will only work for button 1. Button 1 connects to ground when pressed, but with the other five buttons you'll have to deal with +5V and a "select" pin..so you'd need some extra circuitry to interpret that before it goes to the JAMMA harness.
Edit
Yes, there's a thread about this here...unfortunately they don't discuss how to deal with all six buttons. It seems to be a lot of work just to get the first three buttons to work (see page four of the topic). http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=185025
> I don't know what you want a Supergun for if you're not going to use the controls on > it anyway. Being focused on "a Supergun" you're only making this more difficult for > yourself.
I'm not focused on it, it's just that this was the name that people told me to get a "Street Fighter II" board to run.
> So you really don't need a Supergun.
Maybe not. But as soon as I read something about soldering or anything like that, I know it's not just plugging some parts together and that's why it's nothing for me. I either need a compact product or a bunch of parts that just need to be plugged together. As soon as it's actually about handicraft work, I'd rather buy something.
> > So you really don't need a Supergun. > > Maybe not. But as soon as I read something about soldering or anything like that, I > know it's not just plugging some parts together and that's why it's nothing for me. I > either need a compact product or a bunch of parts that just need to be plugged > together. As soon as it's actually about handicraft work, I'd rather buy something.
I know. The thing is, after I took a closer look at how that controller works, I'm pretty sure that there is no product on the market that lets you hook up a six button Sega Genesis controller to a Street Fighter II PCB. It's not good business. Maybe you are one of ten people in the world who would pay for something like that.
If you can't put it together yourself, you would have to make a special order with someone who has the tools and the skills to figure out how to build it. Because of the way the controller works, you need extra decoding logic to make all the buttons work correctly on the CPS2 JAMMA + kick harness.
> but..if i wire all the wires to the ipac..how am i supposed to use the supergun to > the jamma again when i don't want to use it as a controller for pc?
Just piggyback the buttons I guess!
Switch it on to use the supergun and leave it switched off to use the I-Pac.
Not a mod I'd be prepared to make as I like my arcade stuff as close to stock as possible.
HTH
Cheers,
Ralph.
Coherance of posts inversely proportional to Foster's consumption!!!
> but..if i wire all the wires to the ipac..how am i supposed to use the supergun to > the jamma again when i don't want to use it as a controller for pc?
Hello...that's why I said to wire it in parallel...you wire the joysticks and the buttons to the I-PAC with another set of wiring while they're still connected to the JAMMA harness so the supergun can be used normally.
> I know. The thing is, after I took a closer look at how that controller works, I'm > pretty sure that there is no product on the market that lets you hook up a six button > Sega Genesis controller to a Street Fighter II PCB. It's not good business. Maybe you > are one of ten people in the world who would pay for something like that.
Somehow I don't understand this. There are people who pay for pre-built superguns, right? And there are people who want to play games with six buttons. So, why is the combination "people who need a pre-built supergun for six buttons" so rare?
What do people do who want to play those six button games? If they build their own stuff, then o.k. But in this case, where do the people come from that buy superguns with gamepad ports? If everyone who wants to play it can build their own stuff, why is there a market for those pre-built products in the first place? And if there's a market, why is it that those customers just happen to not need six button controllers?
By the way, if you're just referring to the fact that Genesis controllers don't work while other six button controllers might do, then it's o.k. It doesn't have to be a Genesis controller. I just need to know which ones would work.
> And if there's a > market, why is it that those customers just happen to not need six button > controllers?
The jamma connector just has 4 spots for each player's buttons. When a game uses more than that it has to have a custom extra harness/wires. Superguns are generally for standard jamma games, not every arcade game ever. Even within just jamma you'll run into other problems too with refresh rates on lots of games. The games were made for an arcade cabinet. Superguns are hacks upon hacks.
> > I know. The thing is, after I took a closer look at how that controller works, I'm > > pretty sure that there is no product on the market that lets you hook up a six > button > > Sega Genesis controller to a Street Fighter II PCB. It's not good business. Maybe > you > > are one of ten people in the world who would pay for something like that. > > Somehow I don't understand this. > There are people who pay for pre-built superguns, right? > And there are people who want to play games with six buttons. > So, why is the combination "people who need a pre-built supergun for six buttons" so > rare?
No, it's not rare at all...it's like you didn't watch the videos I posted or read anything I wrote. I'm sorry I've wasted my time.
Six buttons are common on Superguns, but any Supergun with six buttons will have a separate connector for the Capcom kick harness, because the extra buttons are not JAMMA standard. JAMMA standard is two players with three buttons per player, not including start and coin up.
This is the part that you didn't get; a button is not just a button.
It's very easy to hook up a gamepad to a Supergun when each button corresponds to a single pin on the plug at the end of its cable. This is not the case with the six button Genesis controller, that's what I'm trying to say. You'd need extra circuitry to decode the additional (additional compared to the original Genesis controlller) buttons because they share pins and will send a different signal on the same pin depending on which button you press. This will not work with an arcade PCB without added circuitry that can translate that.
> By the way, if you're just referring to the fact that Genesis controllers don't work > while other six button controllers might do, then it's o.k. It doesn't have to be a > Genesis controller. I just need to know which ones would work.
And there you have it, this just became a whole new discussion: What other six-button controller?
If you want to find a gamepad with six buttons that is easy to hook up to a JAMMA based system like a Supergun, you need to find one where each button corresponds to a pin on the plug at the end of the cable. You do this by examining the pinout of that particular gamepad, like I have shown you with the Genesis controller.
The easiest thing to do for the SG above is to simply make an adapter like the JAMMA one but which goes to the I-Pac4.
I can't take any pics at the moment as my camera batteries are on charge but I'll show you the adapter I have when I can. The fingerboard that connects to the edge connector in the photo above carries the P1 & P2 buttons 4, 5 & 6 on the very right hand side. P1 on the top and P2 on the bottom. On my adapter this goes to the CPS1/CPS2/CPS3 kick harness as Sune describes.
HTH
Cheers,
Ralph.
Coherance of posts inversely proportional to Foster's consumption!!!
Here is my JAMMA adapter for the Pana Twin Long. (Click on the picture for the full sized image )
You can see that I have opted for a CPS1 adapter to be soldered to the kick buttons (the three edge connectors below the key). Also pictured is a CPS1 to CPS2/3 adapter to give me the best of all worlds.
The simplest way to use this as a MAME stick is to make another adapter using the same fingerboard/pinout above and connect the controls to your I-Pac4. This would have the added advantage that the supergun remains completely original and unadulterated.
HTH
Cheers,
Ralph.
Coherance of posts inversely proportional to Foster's consumption!!!
> No, it's not rare at all...it's like you didn't watch the videos I posted or read > anything I wrote. I'm sorry I've wasted my time.
Sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about six button console gamepads in general. And yes, it's possible that I didn't understand some of the technical stuff and just overread it.
> If you want to find a gamepad with six buttons that is easy to hook up to a JAMMA > based system like a Supergun, you need to find one where each button corresponds to a > pin on the plug at the end of the cable. You do this by examining the pinout of that > particular gamepad, like I have shown you with the Genesis controller.
Which existing gamepads are available that meet these requirements? Which six button gamepad can be used to play "Street Fighter II"? Alternately, for which gamepads do converters exist to plug them into superguns? For example, does a Super Nintendo controller have one pin for each button? And would it be technically possible to create a cable with a Super Nintendo port on the one site to plug a Super Nintendo controller into it and a supergun port on the other side to plug the cable into a supergun?
hmm ok,i'll check it out,because the person who's willing to build a supergun for me,was positive that it could be implemented..so i have to know if he's trying to scam me
> hmm i see its not that difficult after all...side crazy question:it would be possible > to add to all that ALSO a connector for a ps2 joypad?
Not directly. PS2 joypads speak a serial protocol while JAMMA is an oldschool switch matrix. You'd need a PCB with a microcontroller and some other stuff to convert, and then it would have some lag relative to just using arcade controls.
> for which gamepads do converters exist to plug them into superguns?
That is definitely the wrong way to ask. There is no standard for plugging external controllers into Superguns, nobody would mass produce such a converter.
You have to start with the Supergun and ask the opposite: Which Superguns come with gamepad inputs.
> does a Super Nintendo controller have one pin for each button?
I doubt it, but you can easily find out by looking at the pinout for a Super Nintendo controller. Google, then connect the dots.
And would it > be technically possible to create a cable with a Super Nintendo port on the one site > to plug a Super Nintendo controller into it and a supergun port on the other side to > plug the cable into a supergun?
Plug it in where? There is no "supergun port".
Yes, it's technically possible to connect any gamepad to an arcade PCB if you have the necessary skills and understanding of how the gamepad works.
> Which existing gamepads are available that meet these requirements? Which six button > gamepad can be used to play "Street Fighter II"?
I'm not aware of any 6-button console controller that's wire-per-button. You're at 10 wires just for the buttons and d-pad already then, and SNES/Genesis/PSX/N64/Gamecube/Dreamcast all have fewer pins than that.
As I stated elsewhere in this thread it's possible to make a converter (you'd need to build a small board with a microcontroller, program it to speak the controller's protocol, and output to JAMMA accordingly - no, this is not a trivial thing) with the caveat that the conversion process would introduce a small amount of lag that wouldn't be present with real arcade controls.
> > Which existing gamepads are available that meet these requirements? Which six > button > > gamepad can be used to play "Street Fighter II"? > > I'm not aware of any 6-button console controller that's wire-per-button. You're at 10 > wires just for the buttons and d-pad already then, and > SNES/Genesis/PSX/N64/Gamecube/Dreamcast all have fewer pins than that.
Saturn is multiplexed wire-per-button, which is way simpler than having to handle a protocol. You can do the scanning in hardware easily.
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