| richr |
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yikes! what smells like an electric train?
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Clean Sweep Schematics
#315375 - 10/05/13 06:40 AM
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I have been helping add a few new games to the DICE emulator. If you're not familiar, DICE emulates games without a CPU. It sounds like there will be a new release in the next month or so. I'm interested in the Ramtek game Clean Sweep, but I can't find schematics anywhere. I did notice there was some mention of it here back in 2010 along with Pong. If anyone has a scanned copy, I'd love to take a look at it. Its probably best to send it to dice.emulator@gmail.com and they can get it to me.
thanks!
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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manuals / non-cpu status - updated March 2021
[Re: richr]
#315380 - 10/05/13 10:04 AM
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>I have been helping add a few new games to the DICE emulator. If you're not familiar,
>DICE emulates games without a CPU. It sounds like there will be a new release in the
>next month or so.
Thanks for adding support for a few more games when next release of DICE is available.
--
Atari Crossfire
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1
Allied Leisure Zap
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1
--
I have purchased a fair amount, hard-to-find paperwork (non-cpu videogames) over the past 11 years including schematics of other Ramtek games, Electra, etc. The stuff that is really, really impossible is schematics for Chicago Coin videogames (except Demolition Derby) and some logic schematics for Meadows games.
Some roms and proms have also been already dumped for multiple board games (Tank, Ramtek Baseball, Electra Avenger, Allied Leisure Street Burners) and I do have logic schematics for those as well. That will be interesting seeing any of the dual/multiple board games eventually emulated.
This is a recent updated list regarding some of the non-cpu videogames and wall unit games. A fair number of games on the list that use roms or proms have been dumped and are now documented in the source code of MAME, but still a ways to go. Also several of them are multiple board games instead of being single board games. Other than indicating which ones use roms, I haven't set a list yet of which of them are also multiple board games.
===
status update to list of Discrete Circuitry (CPU-less) schematics and pcbs that are accounted for at this time in January 2021 now that roms and proms are documented in MAME and some games emulated in MAME and DICE.
------------------------------------------------
Air Combat (Digital Games, 1976) - gregf only has the pcbs and artwork. To be dumped later.
(roms/proms used and likely not dumped yet)
Alley Rally (Exidy, 1976) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics, gregf only has manual - no schematics
(roms/proms used and likely not dumped yet)
Anti-Aircraft (Atari, 1975) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
Emulated in DICE / documented in MAME
Astro Hockey (Brunswick, 1974) - gregf has manual with schematics
All TTL based.
Attack (Exidy, 1976) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
Emulated in DICE / documented in MAME
Avenger (Electra Games, 1975 or 1976?) - gregf has stapled, manual sheets along with schematics
Only documented in MAME
Baseball/Ball Park (Ramtek Corporation and Midway, 1974) - ArcArc has Ball Park parts catalog, gregf has Ball Park parts catalog and schematics, siftware has schematics, Frank Palazzolo has schematics
Note: audio logic schematics incomplete. One page missing so not all sounds can be emulated.
Only documented in MAME
Basketball / TV Basketball (Midway, 1974) - Al Kossow has/had schematics, Arcarc has schematics, gregf has parts catalog and schematics. Confusion with this because one Midway paperwork says Basketball while parts catalog and wiring diagram say TV Basketball. It should only be TV Basketball.
All TTL based.
Emulated in DICE / documented in MAME.
Bazooka (Project Support Engineering, 1977) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
Only documented in MAME
Biplane (Fun Games, 1975) - ArcArc has manual, Discrete Logistics has manual, gregf has manual
Only documented in MAME Same with Biplane 4
Block Buster (Mirco Games, 1976 or 1977?) - gregf has manual only - no schematics (courtesy of Stephen)
Possibly all TTL based like Atari Breakout?
Bombs Away (Meadows, 1976?) - gregf has manual with schematics. Schematics online at places.
Only documented in MAME
Breakout (Atari, 1976) - Emulated in DICE and MAME.
Bullet Mark (Sega, 1975) - ArcArc has schematics, gregf has manual with schematics (courtesy of Stephen)
(roms/proms used and likely not dumped yet)
Challenge (Mirco Games, 1974 or 1975?) - gregf has manual only - no schematics
Possibly all TTL
Ckidzo (Meadows, 1975) - gregf has manual only, PokeMAME has manual only
Schematics assumed to be printed separately and no one has those as of yet.
Only documented in MAME
Clean Sweep (Ramtek Corporation, 1974) - gregf has schematics, siftware has schematics, Frank Palazzolo has schematics, Kevin Eshbach has schematics, Zephyr has schematics
Emulated in DICE / documented in MAME.
Cobra Gunship (Meadows, 1976) - gregf has schematics, gregf has bezel
Only documented in MAME
Computer Space (Nutting Associates, 1971) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
All TTL based.
Computer Space Ball (Nutting Associates, 197x) - unsure, but ranger_lennier might have schematics, Al Kossow has/had schematics
All TTL based.
Crash 'N Score (Atari, 1975) - ArcArc has manual, Discrete Logistics has manual, gregf has manual
Emulated in DICE / documented in MAME
Cross Fire (Taito, 1977) - gregf has parts catalog manual only
Only documented in MAME
Crossfire (Atari, 1975) - gregf has manual with schematics
Emulated in DICE / documented in MAME
Death Race (Exidy, 1976) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
(roms/proms used. Current dump might be questionable.)
Demolition Derby (Chicago Coin, 1976/77) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics, gregf has parts catalog along with schematics
licensed version of Destruction Derby (roms/proms used, dumped by siftware and should be online)
Desert Patrol (Project Support Engineering, 1977) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics, gregf has 2 manuals with schematics
Two different sets of Desert Patrol documented in MAME (One rom in one Desert Patrol set needs to be dumped again.)
Preliminary emulation in MAME.
Destruction Derby (Exidy, 1975) - Al Kossow has/had schematics, gregf has manual only - no schematics
(roms/proms used. Unknown if those are dumped.)
Electromotion IV (Electromotion ) - gregf has 2 manuals with schematics, but might be missing parts of a page or two of the schematics.
All TTL based.
Elimination (Kee, 1974) - gregf has stapled, general instructions setup sheet only.
Unsure about this one of if it uses any roms/proms or all TTL based.
F-1 (Atari, 1976) - projection - ArcArc has schematics, gregf has manual with schematics
Flim Flam, both 2 player and 4 player (Meadows, 1974) - gregf has manual and has schematics, keshbach has schematics, siftware has schematics, ArcArc should have schematics,
All TTL based.
Flying Fortress (Electra Games, 1976/77) - ArcArc has manual, Discrete Logistics has manual, gregf has manual
(roms/proms used and likely not dumped yet)
Note: The game uses multiple audio boards and currently no audio schematics of any of the audio boards exist online anywhere.
No one has logic schematics for generating the audio sound effects.
Fonz (Sega, 1976) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
Only documented in MAME
Formula K (Atari, 1974)- ArcArc has manual, gregf has manual.
No one known to have logic schematics.
(roms/proms used and likely not dumped yet)
Four-in-1 (Meadows, 1976) - gregf has schematics
Only documented in MAME
Fütsball (Allied Leisure, 1974) - gregf has parts catalog/manual only - no schematics
Unknown if all TTL.
Game Tree (Project Support Engineering, 1978) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics, Al Kossow has/had manual with schematics, gregf has manual with schematics
Only documented in MAME
Goal IV (Atari, 1975) - ArcArc has manual with schematics, gregf has manual with schematics
Should be all TTL based iirc. Unsure though.
Gotcha (Atari, 1973) - ArcArc has schematics
All TTL based.
Gran Trak 10 (Atari, 1974) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
(roms/proms used. Unknown if those are dumped yet.)
Gran Trak 20 (Atari, 1974) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics, gregf has manual with schematics (courtesy of Stephen)
(roms/proms used. Gran Trak 20 pcb to be handed to siftware for roms/proms to be dumped.)
Hi-Way (Atari, 1975) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics, gregf has manual with schematics. All TTL based though one page did indicate a rom being used.
Emulated in DICE / documented in MAME.
Indy 4 (Atari, 1976) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics, gregf has manual with schematics
Emulated in DICE / documented in MAME.
Indy 800 (Atari, 1975) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
(roms/proms used, dumped by siftware iirc and should be online)
Jet Fighter (Atari, 1975) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
Emulated in DICE / documented in MAME.
Knights in Armor (Project Support Engineering, 1976) - gregf has manual and schematics, pong has manual and schematics and an actual cab
(not dumped yet, text only documented in MAME)
Knock Out (Digital Games, 1975) - gregf has manual and schematics
All TTL based
Le Mans (Atari, 1976) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics, gregf has manual with schematics (courtesy of Stephen)
Only documented in MAME
Leader (Midway, 1973) - gregf has manual and schematics
(roms/proms used. Not dumped yet, but rom data might be the same as Ramtek's Wipe Out which is dumped by siftware and should be online)
Man T.T. (Sega, 1976) - ArcArc has schematics
Missile Radar (Nutting Associates, 1973) - someone did get paperwork, but unknown if it included logic schematics.
Really, really, hopefully all TTL based because if it uses a rom/prom....well....
Model 474 (Digital Games, 1975) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics, Al Kossow has/had schematics, gregf has schematics
All TTL based
Monaco GP (Sega, 1979) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
Monaco GP Upright (Sega, 1979) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
(roms/proms used and dumped and used MisfitMAME and documented in MAME)
Olympic TV Football and Olympic TV Hockey (Chicago Coin, 1974) - gregf only has manual - no schematics
All TTL based
Outlaw (Atari, 1976) - ArcArc has schematics, gregf has non-original manual with schematics
Only documented in MAME
Pace Car Pro (Electra, 1975) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics, gregf has manual with schematics
Unsure if it uses roms/proms, but more likely all TTL
Pace Race (Electra, 1975) - gregf has manual with schematics
A 2-player black/white low cost alternate version of Pace Car Pro. Unsure if it uses roms/proms, but more likely all TTL
Paddle Ball (Williams Electronics, 1973) - gregf has stapled, general instructions setup sheets, stapled parts catalog sheets, and logic schematics
All TTL based
Paddle Battle (Allied Leisure, 1973) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
All TTL based
Pin Pong (Atari, 1974) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
Emulated in DICE / documented in MAME.
Play Ball (Gremlin) - non-video wall game, ArcArc has has manual with schematics, gregf has manual with schematics
All TTL based, but scan of wall game artwork is needed.
Playtime (Midway, 1974) - gregf has paperwork including schematics
All TTL based
Pong (Atari, 1972) - Emulated in DICE and MAME.
Pong Doubles (Atari, 1973) - Emulated in DICE and MAME.
Princess (PMC Electronics) - ArcArc has partial schems
Should be all TTL based
Pro-Hockey (Williams Electronics, 1974) - gregf has 2 schematics (1 courtesy of Stephen)
All TTL based
Pro Tennis (Williams Electronics, 1973) - gregf has schematics
All TTL based
Pro Monaco GP (Sega, 1980) - ArcArc has Schematics
Pursuit (Atari, 1975) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics, gregf has manual with schematics with one or two schematics pages missing.
Should be all TTL based iirc.
Qwak (Atari, 1974) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
(roms/proms used. Unknown if those are dumped yet.)
Race! (Fun Games, 1976) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics, gregf has manual with schematics
(roms/proms used. Unknown if those are dumped yet.)
Rally (For Play Manufacturing, 1973) - gregf has manual with schematics, and (courtesy of Stephen) other paperwork for the game. Schematics also online at places.
All TTL based
Rebound (Atari, 1974) - Emulated in DICE and MAME.
Ricochet (Nutting Associates, 1976) - gregf has schematics only; no manual.
All TTL based
Road Champion (Williams Electronics, 1977) - gregf has manual with schematics
(roms/proms used. Unknown if those are dumped yet.)
Road Race (Sega, 1976) - gregf only has manual - no schematics
(roms/proms likely used and likely not dumped yet)
Shark Jaws (Atari, 1975) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
Emulated in DICE / documented in MAME.
Skywar (Mirco Games, 1976) - gregf has manual with schematics
(possibly uses same proms as BiPlane, but officially not dumped yet, text only documented in MAME)
Space Race/Asteroid (Atari and Midway, 1973) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics, gregf has Midway Asteroid schematics
All TTL based
Spike (Kee Games, 1974 or 1975) - gregf has manual with schematics
All TTL based
Sport Center (For Play Manufacturing, 1973) - gregf has manual with schematics. Schematics also online at places.
All TTL based
Steeplechase / Astroturf (Atari, 1975) - Al Kossow has/had schematics, ArcArc have schematics
Emulated in DICE / documented in MAME.
Street Burners (Allied Leisure, 1975) - Al Kossow has/had schematics, gregf has manual with schematics.
(roms/proms used, dumped by siftware and should be online. Also dumped by Kevin Eshbach)
Stunt Cycle (Atari, 1976) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics, gregf has manual with schematics
Emulated in DICE / preliminary emulation in MAME.
Super Flipper (Chicago Coin, 1975) - Al Kossow has/had schematics
Survival (US Billiards) - gregf has manual - schematics might not be complete
Unknown if all TTL.
Table Tennis (Nutting Associates, 1975) - gregf has manual with schematics.
Unknown if all TTL.
Take Five (Fun Games, 1975) - ArcArc has schematics
Only documented in MAME
Tank (Atari, 1974) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
Preliminary emulation in MAME.
Tank Cocktail (Atari, 1974) - Al Kossow has/had schematics, ArcArc has schematics
Preliminary emulation in MAME.
Tank II (Atari, 1975) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
(roms/proms used. Unknown if dumped yet.)
Tankers (Fun Games, 1975) - ArcArc has schematics, gregf has schematics, Al Kossow has/had schematics
(roms/proms used. Unknown if dumped yet, text only documented in MAME)
Tennis Tourney (Allied Leisure, 1973) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics,
All TTL based
Touch Me (Atari, 1974) - no video - ArcArc has schematics
Uncertain if it uses any rom/prom.
Tracer (Sega, 1976) - ArcArc has parts catalog, gregf has parts catalog along with schematics
(roms/proms used. Unknown if dumped yet.)
Trap Shoot (Gremlin, 1977) - ArcArc has schematics, gregf has manual with schematics
All TTL based
A non-video, wall game that will require a scan of the artwork piece itself to play the game.
Trivia (Ramtek, 1975) - gregf has manual with schematics, siftware has schematics, Frank Palazzolo has schematics, italie has manual with schematics along with 2 cabs ... (his cab and my cab)
(roms/proms used along with 8-track tapes. proms, dumped by Frank in Oct. 2006, documented in MAME. Stephen purchased another pcb that is to go to siftware for roms/proms to be dumped. italie currently has all the tapes from his cab and my cab.)
TV Hockey (Amutronics, 1973) - gregf has stapled, general instructions setup sheet only - no schematics
All TTL based
TV Goalee (Chicago Coin, 1974) - Al Kossow has/had schematics, gregf has manual
All TTL based
TV Pin Game (Chicago Coin, 1975) - gregf has manual and schematics
TV Ping Pong (Amutronics, 1973) - gregf has schematics
All TTL based
TV Table Tennis (PMC Electronics, 1973) - gregf has schematics
All TTL based
TV Tennis (Chicago Coin, 1974) - gregf only has manual - no schematics
All TTL based
UFO Chase (Electra Games, 1975) - ArcArc has schematics, Discrete Logistics has schematics
Video Action or also known as Tennis/Soccer/Hockey ( URL and Electra Games 1975?) - gregf has 2 manuals with schematics (one courtesy of Stephen, but his is missing a couple crucial pages)
All TTL based. btw: Model VA-MP plays different games and has its own schematics which needs to be on some want list. http://www.arcadeflyers.com/?page=flyer&db=videodb&id=5115&image=4
Wham Bam (PMC Electronics, 1973) - gregf has manual with schematics
All TTL based
Wham Bam + 2 (PMC Electronics, 1973) - gregf only has manual - no schematics
All TTL based
Wheels (Midway, 1975) - ArcArc has schematics, gregf has schematics
All TTL based
Wheels II (Midway, 1975) - ArcArc has schematics, gregf has schematics
All TTL based
Mine is complete....ArcArc might be missing a page iirc.
Wings (Electra Games, 1976) - gregf has stapled, manual sheets along with partial schematics. Page 3 of 3 of logic schematics for pcb 1040B is missing.
(roms/proms used and likely not dumped yet)
Winner (Midway, 1973) - ArcArc has schematics, gregf has parts catalog along with schematics, Discrete Logistics has old pdf file
that has a mixture of scans of flyer, parts catalog, and possibly wiring diagram...but no actual scan of logic schematics of Winner.
All TTL based
Winner IV (Midway, 1973) - gregf has parts catalog along with schematics
All TTL based
Wipe Out / Countdown (Ramtek, Volly 1973) - gregf has schematics, siftware has schematics
Emulated in DICE / documented in MAME.
Zap (Allied Leisure, 1973 or 1974) - gregf has manual with schematics
All TTL based
Edited by gregf (03/05/21 11:11 AM)
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: gregf]
#315386 - 10/05/13 04:43 PM
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Greg to the rescue 
Nice to see it is still being worked on. I had a short video of Clean Sweep somewhere on my hard drive. I'm looking forward to seeing what's coming.
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| CptGuapo |
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Beat'em-ups Lover
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Reged: 03/18/08
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Posts: 342
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Loc: Off to Never Never Land
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: gregf]
#315390 - 10/05/13 06:57 PM
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Damn... greg is a schematicpedia... 
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"Mythology is what grownups believe, folklore is what they tell children and religion is both."
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: CptGuapo]
#315391 - 10/05/13 07:31 PM
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>Damn... greg is a schematicpedia...
The initial list credits would go to Stiletto going back to December 2010 when MAMEdev member Juergen B. was asking about available schematics for non-cpu videogames back then and then I added my share of info to Stiletto's list in that same thread. And I have been updating it since.
The list is a bare minimum since this only covers what is accounted for in preservationist hands. There are hundreds of other non-cpu games videogames not on this list.
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: Antny]
#315392 - 10/05/13 07:44 PM
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>Nice to see it is still being worked on. I had a short video of Clean Sweep somewhere on
>my hard drive.
Maybe from Zephyr's old page that Fever (with Zephyr/Dave's permission) had added to Discrete Logistics site years earlier.
--
http://discrete.mameworld.info/
http://discrete.mameworld.info/Zephyr/cleansweep.html
--
The disappointing part is the Clean Sweep bezel uses backlit lamps features to indicate gameplay status such as player's turn to play the game etc.
Without the bezel and its backlit lamps being scanned and supported as an external artwork image, Clean Sweep gameplay might appear confusing.
That's why a bezel piece needs to be on the want list for later in hopes a bezel can be found and scanned. I tried to bidding for a Clean Sweep bezel years ago on ebay auction and lost.
>I'm looking forward to seeing what's coming.
A few good games will be supported in next release according to Adam. One of them is with some help from Andy Welburn since Andy is only current known person to have schematics for the specific Kee/Atari game.
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Doing a quick Google image search gave me this pictue. Seems very easy to trace if a nice picture could be found. Of course that doesn't help if the lamp control and artwork aren't supported by DICE.
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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| richr |
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yikes! what smells like an electric train?
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Reged: 03/30/11
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: gregf]
#315396 - 10/05/13 09:55 PM
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Thanks! There are a *LOT* more non-CPU games than I thought - looks like I won't run out of things to do any time soon!
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: richr]
#315397 - 10/05/13 10:35 PM
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>There are a *LOT* more non-CPU games than I thought
Yep. That's only a partial list. It's either schematics are accounted for, but the roms from a game has not been dumped (because a pcb hasn't been found). Or game has been dumped (good for pcb repair shops though), but needed paperwork has not yet been found which makes it a challenge for emulating the game especially for almost all the Meadows games that have already been dumped.
I don't know if Meadows had ever printed any D size foldout schematics (blue prints) of their games. They have printed service-installation manuals that include wiring, but that's it. I have yet to see any logic schematics for any of the Meadows non-cpu videogames.
> - looks like I won't run out of things to do any time soon!
Plenty of Ramtek logic non-cpu videogame schematics on hand so you are good there.
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: Antny]
#315398 - 10/05/13 10:41 PM
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>gave me this pictue. Seems very easy to trace if a nice picture could be found.
I'd still prefer to buy a bezel (if need be) and have it scanned. The game could be playable, but the bezel makes it easy to follow gameplay.
At least it is easier to follow Clean Sweep compared to say Gremlin's Frogs when MAME had emulated Frogs long before there was any artwork support of Frogs. :-)
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| casm |
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Cinematronics > *
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OT: any plans for source portability to OS X?
[Re: richr]
#315401 - 10/06/13 02:28 AM
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(Late edit: I wrote the following having completely forgotten to mention what prompted me to do so - namely, that the DICE makefile appears to be capable of sensing OS X as a build target, but does not have build rules for it. Windows and Linux are also defined, and have build rules. This is what I was referring to but managed to not include any reference to. D'oh.)
Question for you: are there any plans to make the DICE source fully-portable to OS X in the future?
I really love the emulator, but firing up VMware Fusion to run it kinda sucks :P All the build tools should be there under OS X, though I do understand that making the source play nicely with clang rather than gcc (and the various other OS X foibles) could be something of a PITA.
By the way, thanks for all the work that's going into this from everyone - it's really nice to see the era of arcade history that DICE covers being preserved.
Edited by casm (10/07/13 02:08 AM)
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: richr]
#315422 - 10/07/13 01:46 AM
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Thanks in advance for anything you contribute.
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| richr |
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yikes! what smells like an electric train?
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Re: OT: any plans for source portability to OS X?
[Re: casm]
#315432 - 10/07/13 06:12 AM
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I don't know the answer to that. It would be a good question/request for the project page http://sourceforge.net/projects/dice/
I can read schematics well enough to set up the game, but I'm not good enough at C++ (or compilers) to do much else. I guess that is good design - where you can still help out even if you don't understand how everything works.
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics *edit*
[Re: gregf]
#316578 - 10/31/13 01:55 AM
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>
>
> Computer Space Ball (Nutting Associates, 197x) - unsure, but ranger_lennier might
> have schematics, Al Kossow has/had schematics
> All TTL based.
>
I don't have the logic schematics, just diagrams for the monitor or something along those lines. I do have two PCBs if anyone wants to try and make schematics.
>
>
> Missile Radar (Nutting Associates, 1973) - someone did get paperwork, but unknown if
> it included logic schematics.
> Really, really, hopefully all TTL based because if it uses a rom/prom....well....
>
>
I believe these are the full logic schematics--not photocopies, but original blueprints on very large paper. I'm not really sure where to scan them. Maybe someplace like Kinkos would have a large format scanner?
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Here is the set of schematics I scanned in and stitched together with Autopano since my scanner does not support this large scale paper. (I have also already forwarded an email with the schematics.)
Kevin Eshbach
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I'm making good progress. Stuff shows up on the screen and it is semi-playable. Debugging continues....
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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Re: Let the sweeping begin!
[Re: richr]
#317505 - 11/18/13 01:09 AM
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>I'm making good progress. Stuff shows up on the screen and it is semi-playable.
Outstanding work there and thanks for getting Clean Sweep onwards towards a working state. And my thanks to Stephen, Kevin, siftware, and Zephyr for contributing along the way. Once Clean Sweep is able to be fully working, that should be Ramtek's fourth or fifth video game they had released since mid 1973. Volly, Hockey, Wipe Out, and maybe Ramtek Baseball, not certain about Baseball, released before Clean Sweep was marketed.
http://discrete.mameworld.info/Zephyr/cleansweep.html
>Debugging continues....
Good luck on remaining work.
When noticing the number of balls available, it looks to be seven, but I thought the maximum amount was either 3 or 5. I don't remember since it has been about 39 years since last playing the game on an actual cab.
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Re: Let the sweeping begin!
[Re: gregf]
#317506 - 11/18/13 02:23 AM
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Kudos to you Rich. Thanks for the hard work. Will there be sound? I also believe there was a green overlay of some sort. I look forward to the next release. 
>When noticing the number of balls available, it looks to be seven, but I thought the maximum amount was either 3 or 5. I don't remember since it has been about 39 years since last playing the game on an actual cab.
Damn your we're old.
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Re: Let the sweeping begin!
[Re: Antny]
#317508 - 11/18/13 03:35 AM
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>I also believe there was a green overlay of some sort.
iirc Portion of the bezel doesn't have a clear, but a faded blue-green portion that is in front of the monitor when bezel is in place. I thought I had saved one of the old bezel auction photos from a few years ago, but haven't found it yet.
Once the bezel piece is found later and scanned, that should resolve everything visual-wise regarding Clean Sweep.
>I don't remember since it has been about 39 years since last playing the game on an
>actual cab.
>Damn your we're old.
"Oldster's " still insist on hanging around here whether the "romzkidz" like it or not.
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Re: Let the sweeping begin!
[Re: gregf]
#317554 - 11/20/13 02:53 AM
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I was able to get the sound working! I have problems with the ball counter and the credit circuit, but the game is playable. The game has an operator switch to either allow 3 or 5 balls per game. I'll keep working on it - must be a bad connection somewhere....
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Re: Let the sweeping begin!
[Re: richr]
#317568 - 11/20/13 10:19 AM
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>I was able to get the sound working!
Great.
>I have problems with the ball counter and the credit circuit, but the game is playable.
>The game has an operator switch to either allow 3 or 5 balls per game.
Good to know that it appears the data from each of the 3 proms is in working condition.
Ramtek likely had a service manual (more likely stapled sheets for setup) and a wiring diagram and logic schematics for Clean Sweep. I only have logic schematics, but I am guessing the Clean Sweep wiring layout page would indicate jumpers being used for the operator selections.
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Ramtek Clean Sweep pcb stuff
[Re: richr]
#317598 - 11/20/13 09:57 PM
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After taking another look at a Clean Sweep pcb, here is brief pcb, prom label, and location info in order for DICE driver code to document Clean Sweep pcb.
-
RAMTEK ASSY NO 501082
COPYRIGHT 1974 MADE IN USA
.c6 82s123b handwritten stickered 501075
6C
.d7 82s123b handwritten stickered 501076
7D
.k3 IM5610 read as 82s123 handwritten stickered 501074
3K
-
As for the proms chips detailed info and function that each prom handles, they should be Intersil 5610 series (compatible with 82s123)Clean Sweep schematics show I5610, and the hand written labels/stickers on each of the three I5610 proms and location should be as follows:
501074.k3 number character generation
501075.c6 shape of paddle
501076.d7 ball control memory
Audio post
>I was able to get the sound working! I have problems with the ball counter and the
>credit circuit, but the game is playable. The game has an operator switch to either
>allow 3 or 5 balls per game.
Clean Sweep "number of ball" settings does use a jumper setting instead of a dip switch, but it is a guess without the wiring diagram sheet.
Good to know the game is almost on the way of being emulated.
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: gregf]
#317791 - 11/24/13 10:49 PM
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>
> A few good games will be supported in next release according to Adam. One of them is
> with some help from Andy Welburn since Andy is only current known person to have
> schematics for the specific Kee/Atari game.
Had I thought about this future effort back in the early '00s, I wouldn't have sold off my collection of '73-'79 game manuals on eBay. Fortunately, Andy bought the majority of my Atari/Kee manuals, so at least those went to someone who cares about the preservation of these games.
I was also thinking that I had some of the manuals and schematics that are elusive at this point, and dug out my email archive from around that time to see who I sold them to and which ones I had. Unfortunately, the disc that the emails were on was corrupt and unreadable 
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: Brian Deuel]
#317801 - 11/25/13 02:05 AM
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>>One of them is with some help from Andy Welburn since Andy is only current known person
>>to have schematics for the specific Kee/Atari game.
>Had I thought about this future effort back in the early '00s, I wouldn't have sold off
>my collection of '73-'79 game manuals on eBay. Fortunately, Andy bought the majority of
>my Atari/Kee manuals, so at least those went to someone who cares about the
>preservation of these games.
That's the way it goes. Andy is the ideal person to have the items since he keeps pcbs up and running as best possible.
>I was also thinking that I had some of the manuals and schematics that are elusive at
>this point, and dug out my email archive from around that time to see who I sold them
>to and which ones I had. Unfortunately, the disc that the emails were on was corrupt
>and unreadable.
I would have been interested in which obscure game manuals or schematics you had.
For instance, Meadows green colored cover service manuals can be found, but I have yet to see any logic schematics blue print sheets for any of the 1970s era Meadows games. I am begining to think no schematics were ever printed for Meadows games.
Same goes for logic schematics of some of the Chicago Coin video games (except Demolition Derby). As for Chicago Coins schematics of videogames, I only have TV Pin Game and that is it. Chicago Coin mechanical schematics seem to be more in abundance than schematics for their video games.
Another hard-to-find item is blue print logic schematics for Lunar Rescue...the Taito service manual....no problem....but not the case with D-size blue print logic schematics for Lunar Rescue.
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: gregf]
#317804 - 11/25/13 06:40 AM
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> >>One of them is with some help from Andy Welburn since Andy is only current known
> person
> >>to have schematics for the specific Kee/Atari game.
>
> > Had I thought about this future effort back in the early '00s, I wouldn't have sold
> off
> > my collection of '73-'79 game manuals on eBay. Fortunately, Andy bought the majority
> of
> > my Atari/Kee manuals, so at least those went to someone who cares about the
> > preservation of these games.
>
> That's the way it goes. Andy is the ideal person to have the items since he keeps
> pcbs up and running as best possible.
>
>
> > I was also thinking that I had some of the manuals and schematics that are elusive
> at
> > this point, and dug out my email archive from around that time to see who I sold
> them
> > to and which ones I had. Unfortunately, the disc that the emails were on was corrupt
> > and unreadable.
>
> I would have been interested in which obscure game manuals or schematics you had.
>
> For instance, Meadows green colored cover service manuals can be found, but I have
> yet to see any logic schematics blue print sheets for any of the 1970s era Meadows
> games. I am begining to think no schematics were ever printed for Meadows games.
>
> Same goes for logic schematics of some of the Chicago Coin video games (except
> Demolition Derby). As for Chicago Coins schematics of videogames, I only have TV Pin
> Game and that is it. Chicago Coin mechanical schematics seem to be more in abundance
> than schematics for their video games.
>
> Another hard-to-find item is blue print logic schematics for Lunar Rescue...the
> Taito service manual....no problem....but not the case with D-size blue print logic
> schematics for Lunar Rescue.
Again, if either of you have money to burn, John's Jukes has a _massive_ collection of manuals and schematics for games from this era.
- Stiletto
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: Stiletto]
#317860 - 11/26/13 05:40 AM
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>Again, if either of you have money to burn, John's Jukes has a _massive_ collection of manuals and schematics for games from this era.
Wow it looks like that might be the "go to" place to get stuff. That is quite a list.
http://www.flippers.com/pdfs/JohnsJukesManualsList.pdf
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> > Again, if either of you have money to burn, John's Jukes has a _massive_ collection
> of manuals and schematics for games from this era.
>
> Wow it looks like that might be the "go to" place to get stuff. That is quite a list.
>
> http://www.flippers.com/pdfs/JohnsJukesManualsList.pdf
Cool list. I'm still searching for the extremely rare version of Choplifter (15 years and counting so far - see attached PDF for further details and a recent example of my searches - PDF attached because otherwise you would need to login to view the Aussie Arcade Forum thread).
I searched John's Jukes list for "Choplifter 1987" - just in case - but no versions of Choplifter are mentioned.
"Choplifter 1987" could turn up anywhere so I try to leave no stones unturned.
John's Jukes does list Strategy X as a pinball game though - is it a pinball as well ? Strategy X is one of my favourite video arcade games (special nostalgic value because it was in the basement where I lived during 1st years of uni).
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Moose
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: Moose]
#317969 - 11/28/13 06:57 AM
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> > > Again, if either of you have money to burn, John's Jukes has a _massive_
> collection
> > of manuals and schematics for games from this era.
> >
> > Wow it looks like that might be the "go to" place to get stuff. That is quite a
> list.
> >
> > http://www.flippers.com/pdfs/JohnsJukesManualsList.pdf
>
> Cool list. I'm still searching for the extremely rare version of Choplifter (15 years
> and counting so far - see attached PDF for further details and a recent example of my
> searches - PDF attached because otherwise you would need to login to view the Aussie
> Arcade Forum thread).
>
> I searched John's Jukes list for "Choplifter 1987" - just in case - but no versions
> of Choplifter are mentioned.
>
> "Choplifter 1987" could turn up anywhere so I try to leave no stones unturned.
>
> John's Jukes does list Strategy X as a pinball game though - is it a pinball as well
> ? Strategy X is one of my favourite video arcade games (special nostalgic value
> because it was in the basement where I lived during 1st years of uni).
There are some odd intermediate versions of choplifter itself which arent in mame yet, as choplifter was the first game sega 'tested' various protection technologies out on (encrypted z80, mb8123, 8751s, etc); the earliest versions had no protection at all and had daughterboards which added protection and other stuff. IIRC one of the Mamedevs has one of these intermediate boards but the roms on it were bitrotten/bad.
I don't believe its a graphical update like you described, though; despite the protection changes the game plays the same afaik.
LN
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: Lord Nightmare]
#317971 - 11/28/13 07:52 AM
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> I don't believe its a graphical update like you described, though; despite the
> protection changes the game plays the same afaik.
I agree, but they might still be interesting to see. 
Many years (10 ?) ago, I exchanged a lot of emails with Dan Gorlin (the programmer behind Choplifter), discussing the game and the special version I was looking for. The "1987" version I have been looking for, isn't a version of the game he knew about or had seen.
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Thanks to another donated schematic, another game is almost ready in DICE. I learned some interesting history on this one thanks to gregf. Long story short, its known as either "Leader" by Midway or "Wipe Out" by Ramtek. It is a 2 or 4 player "ball and paddle" game. Very "old school" but still fun.
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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Wipe Out looks good there
[Re: richr]
#318543 - 12/11/13 11:13 AM
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Great work as usual, and thanks to Stephen and siftware for their involvement with this as well.
>Thanks to another donated schematic, another game is almost ready in DICE.
As a youngster going on 9 years age during late years of 1973, when words Nixon or Watergate seem to be most mentioned words by Americans back then, I recall seeing Midway Leader upright cabs here and there at places I went to at the time. I may have only played it once. It requires multiple players and I was usually by myself when at some of the arcades.
I wasn't really a pong fan then unless the pong/paddle ball clone game had a unique feature such as one player versus machine option and that's why I recall Digital Games Model 474 cocktail pong game more than other various pong clones.
>I learned some interesting history on this one thanks to gregf. Long story short, its
>known as either "Leader" by Midway or "Wipe Out" by Ramtek. It is a 2 or 4 player "ball
>and paddle" game. Very "old school" but still fun.
It took a while until getting paperwork over the years, but it confirmed my guess that companies like Midway and Volley (Quebec) had licensed from Ramtek back in 1973.
Ramtek made Wipe Out
Midway licensed from Ramtek, but renamed their version: Leader
Volley Industry (Quebec region) licensed from Ramtek, but renamed their version: Countdown
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: richr]
#318587 - 12/12/13 02:42 AM
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Looks great Rich, thanks for all your hard work. Thanks goes to Greg also for hunting down the necessary paperwork.
Were u able to conquer all the problems with Clean Sweep?
Edited by Antny (12/12/13 04:55 AM)
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A page scan from the Midway Leader parts catalog.
Wipe Out pcb and Leader pcb do not have any slide switch on them such as what can be seen on various pong pcbs. The Midway Leader parts catalog does mention the operator adjustable slide switch. The slide switch is within the interior of Midway cabs (upright or lo-boy model) on what is described as equipment panel or mechanism panel.
The Midway Leader wiring schematic calls it: Score Selector Slide Switch
while the Leader parts catalog lists it as: Game Over Score Selector Switch
I prefer the wiring diagram description since it describes operator adjustment as a slide switch.
As for the prom file names, skip this old info
--
.a4 unknown
MMI 398 10835 75351 was on the chip
read as 82s123
.g7 IM5610 read as 82s123
--
Since there are no labels on the two proms on the Ramtek Wipe Out pcb and the logic schematics for both Midway Leader and Ramtek's schematic version that says Leader do not show any name or number for each prom, use these instead I5610C.4d, and I5610C.7g
I would use the ic part number (Intersil 5610) as for the rom name file as such
-
I5610C.4d
I5610C.7g
-
In the DICE source code, the prom function description should also be added to the right of each prom so that way other board owners would know what the function is for each prom.
--
I5610C.4d // character generator
I5610C.7g // basic control of ball movement
--
btw: A brief description of gameplay as shown in Ramtek Wipe Out flyer.
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: gregf]
#322640 - 02/26/14 09:10 PM
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Hi folks,
One of my friends has a Volly Flip-Out (it works but need some adjustments) and i noted which lamps turns on/off in demo or game mode.
Here's a picture with all 6 lamps being shown (only Player 1 and 2 are not lit up in this picture):
Hope this will help out. =)
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: Sly DC]
#322641 - 02/26/14 09:42 PM
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> Hi folks,
>
> One of my friends has a Volly Flip-Out (it works but need some adjustments) and i
> noted which lamps turns on/off in demo or game mode.
>
> Here's a picture with all 6 lamps being shown (only Player 1 and 2 are not lit up in
> this picture):
>
>
> Hope this will help out. =)
That's a Clean Sweep pic, pretty sure I've even seen it before on Zephyr's Clean Sweep page? http://discrete.mameworld.info/Zephyr/cleansweep.html
Thought you were talking about Flip-Out? Are they the same game?
Anyways, looks like a photoshop to me? Shouldn't Game Over look different? Why don't you just take a photo of his Flip Out?
Inquiring minds want to know.
- Stiletto
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Re: Clean Sweep Schematics
[Re: Stiletto]
#322643 - 02/26/14 10:15 PM
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> That's a Clean Sweep pic, pretty sure I've even seen it before on Zephyr's Clean
> Sweep page? http://discrete.mameworld.info/Zephyr/cleansweep.html
That is exactly the same picture i modified to show all 6 lamps.
> Thought you were talking about Flip-Out? Are they the same game?
Yes, they are exactly the same. I even made a web page about Volly Industries and it's affiliation with Ramtek: http://www.ccjvq.com/slydc/topic/volly/volly.htm
> Anyways, looks like a photoshop to me? Shouldn't Game Over look different? Why don't
> you just take a photo of his Flip Out?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> - Stiletto
I will take pictures of his cab next time i'll be at his house. The picture is not photoshop, just modified with Paint Shop Pro 3.11 (yeah...i'm still using this old paint software since i know it like the back of my hand). When i took notes, we didn't had a camera at hand (or cellphones) to take pictures, but here are 3 pictures that the seller put on Ebay last year:
This is the same cab we picked up i Ontario last year (a good 3 hours drive) but was worth it saving this rare game! =)
Oh and i almost forgot...they are two other clones of Ramtek Clean Sweep: Universal Star Rub and Sega Erase.
Only data i have on Star Rub is the flyer from TAFA (which can see the exact game on screen BUT vertically) and as for Sega Erase, only a very brief description on a Japanese site telling it was a rub-off Paddle game (which i DO assume it is a clone of Ramtek Clean Sweep since it came before Atari Breakout, and makes sense, but still only assuming).
Edited by Sly DC (02/26/14 10:26 PM)
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Re: Clean Sweep bezel
[Re: Sly DC]
#322646 - 02/26/14 11:25 PM
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>Here's a picture with all 6 lamps being shown (only Player 1 and 2 are not lit up in
>this picture):
>Hope this will help out.
Thanks, but as Stiletto mentions this is Ramtek's version. I purchased a bezel of Clean Sweep and it arrived recently.
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1
The bezel is in poor shape. No longer really useful for a Clean Sweep cab imo, but Mr. Do can scan the bezel and another contributor, Antny, will be able to give the scanned image a photoshop treatment to restore image as if it rolled off the assembly line. Eventually it will be supported in MAME artwork, but that may be a while from now.
The photos that Zephyr had taken of a Clean Sweep cab in 2003, see my post, show how the backlit illumination lamps work and the output intensity of the lamps. The illuminated sides status indicators will be tricky of how to get those realistic to the actual cab.
These are details that can be dealt with later on.
>One of my friends has a Volly Flip-Out (it works but need some adjustments) and i noted
>which lamps turns on/off in demo or game mode.
Kevin uploaded Clean Sweep logic schematics for downloading.
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1
Not guaranteed to be exactly the same, but most of it should be.
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Re: Volly Flip Out etc.
[Re: Sly DC]
#322647 - 02/26/14 11:52 PM
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>That is exactly the same picture i modified to show all 6 lamps.
With Clean Sweep bezel accounted for, we're good here. The Volly Flip Out bezel would be a real additional welcome imo.
After looking at photos, Flip Out does not use a blue, acetate overlay sheet like Clean Sweep does?
Maybe it could have in the past, but only being a long time southern Californian, I have never seen these cabs way back in mid 1970s when they out there. I only saw and played Clean Sweep and that is it.
Clean Sweep bezel has overlay piece taped to inside of the bezel piece. If Flip Out bezel or monitor doesn't have any old tape remnants, then I guess Flip Out didn't use any color overlay piece when it was first marketed.
>Yes, they are exactly the same. I even made a web page about Volly Industries and it's
>affiliation with Ramtek: http://www.ccjvq.com/slydc/topic/volly/volly.htm
Good page there. I happen to have purchased Volly Countdown schematics a few years ago.
It actually shows Ramtek and then instead of Wipe Out, it reads Countdown instead.
I also have Midway Leader paperwork, and one of the schematics has Ramtek Leader on the logic schematic instead of Wipe Out. And for Midway I also have the large D size foldout blue print sheets that show Leader.
Last year, I sent photocopies of paperwork to both DICE devs (Adam B. and Rich R.) so they could see for themselves when they were emulating Wipe Out for DICE.
There are loads of stuff that need to be documented in proper order so exact history is documented would be ideal. Keith Smith has already done an outstanding job on his side. He provided some hard to find flyer scans for Dan H. (TAFA) over the years.
>I will take pictures of his cab next time i'll be at his house. The picture is not
>photoshop, just modified with Paint Shop Pro 3.11 (yeah...i'm still using this old
>paint software since i know it like the back of my hand). When i took notes, we didn't
>had a camera at hand (or cellphones) to take pictures, but here are 3 pictures that the
>seller put on Ebay last year:
Those are good photos that the seller posted last year.
>This is the same cab we picked up in Ontario last year (a good 3 hours drive) but was
>worth it saving this rare game!
Good work doing that. I need to ask more questions later regarding the Flip Out cab.
>Oh and i almost forgot...they are two other clones of Ramtek Clean Sweep: Universal Star
>Rub and Sega Erase.
>Only data i have on Star Rub is the flyer from TAFA (which can see the exact game on
>screen BUT vertically) and as for Sega Erase, only a very brief description on a
>Japanese site telling it was a rub-off Paddle game (which i DO assume it is a clone of
>Ramtek Clean Sweep since it came before Atari Breakout, and makes sense, but still only
>assuming).
The game play could be the same, but the hardware might be different such as using a cpu instead of being non-cpu.
I don't remember the exact game, but there is one example where I believe a non-cpu videogame was on the market and a different company marketed the same game maybe the following year, but made use of a cpu.
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Re: Volly Flip Out etc.
[Re: gregf]
#322670 - 02/27/14 04:08 PM
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> > That is exactly the same picture i modified to show all 6 lamps.
>
> With Clean Sweep bezel accounted for, we're good here. The Volly Flip Out bezel
> would be a real additional welcome imo.
No problem! I'll take pictures in a very near future.
> After looking at photos, Flip Out does not use a blue, acetate overlay sheet like
> Clean Sweep does?
Well No and Yes...No if it is the upright model and yes if it is the cocktail model. Problem is that i've never saw the cocktail model but will eventually pop up somewhere like the upright model (until someone sold one on Ebay last year). But if you look at the flyers on TAFA about the cocktail model, it doesn't seems that it uses lamps at all but i can be mistaken and uses two control knobs instead of one lever/slider.
> Maybe it could have in the past, but only being a long time southern Californian, I
> have never seen these cabs way back in mid 1970s when they out there. I only saw and
> played Clean Sweep and that is it.
That would be logical to say that you never saw any Volly cabs in California since Volly was the Canadian version of Ramtek. 
> Clean Sweep bezel has overlay piece taped to inside of the bezel piece. If Flip Out
> bezel or monitor doesn't have any old tape remnants, then I guess Flip Out didn't use
> any color overlay piece when it was first marketed.
For that, i'll have to check inside the Flip-Out cab to confirm (or not).
> > Yes, they are exactly the same. I even made a web page about Volly Industries and
> it's
> > affiliation with Ramtek: http://www.ccjvq.com/slydc/topic/volly/volly.htm
>
> Good page there. I happen to have purchased Volly Countdown schematics a few years
> ago.
> It actually shows Ramtek and then instead of Wipe Out, it reads Countdown instead.
>
> I also have Midway Leader paperwork, and one of the schematics has Ramtek Leader on
> the logic schematic instead of Wipe Out. And for Midway I also have the large D size
> foldout blue print sheets that show Leader.
That is very strange but great historical nitpicks (Keith Smith would surely add this in his book).
> Last year, I sent photocopies of paperwork to both DICE devs (Adam B. and Rich R.)
> so they could see for themselves when they were emulating Wipe Out for DICE.
>
> There are loads of stuff that need to be documented in proper order so exact history
> is documented would be ideal. Keith Smith has already done an outstanding job on his
> side. He provided some hard to find flyer scans for Dan H. (TAFA) over the years.
For that, i totally agree. Any kind of information regarding arcade history should be documented and noted since they are still many errors or missing infos out there.
I can hardly wait to read Keith Smith's book but in the meantime, i enjoy reading his "Golden Age Arcade Historian" blog! =)
> > I will take pictures of his cab next time i'll be at his house. The picture is not
> > photoshop, just modified with Paint Shop Pro 3.11 (yeah...i'm still using this old
> > paint software since i know it like the back of my hand). When i took notes, we
> didn't
> > had a camera at hand (or cellphones) to take pictures, but here are 3 pictures that
> the
> > seller put on Ebay last year:
>
> Those are good photos that the seller posted last year.
>
>
> > This is the same cab we picked up in Ontario last year (a good 3 hours drive) but
> was
> > worth it saving this rare game!
>
> Good work doing that. I need to ask more questions later regarding the Flip Out cab.
Thanks very much. Well, it would be the time to ask them "before" i go to my friend's house so i could answer most if not all of your questions.
> > Oh and i almost forgot...they are two other clones of Ramtek Clean Sweep: Universal
> Star
> > Rub and Sega Erase.
> > Only data i have on Star Rub is the flyer from TAFA (which can see the exact game on
> > screen BUT vertically) and as for Sega Erase, only a very brief description on a
> > Japanese site telling it was a rub-off Paddle game (which i DO assume it is a clone
> of
> > Ramtek Clean Sweep since it came before Atari Breakout, and makes sense, but still
> only
> > assuming).
>
> The game play could be the same, but the hardware might be different such as using a
> cpu instead of being non-cpu.
I totally agree on that too, they are "Breakout" clones in Japan that uses a CPU.
> I don't remember the exact game, but there is one example where I believe a non-cpu
> videogame was on the market and a different company marketed the same game maybe the
> following year, but made use of a cpu.
I have one in mind but it is the same company who both released the same game as a Discrete Logic and with a CPU: Midway (Taito) Ball Park (all TTL) and Midway Tornado Baseball (CPU - emulated in MAME). Both same game.
Also, Ramtek released Baseball and Deluxe Baseball and license it to Seeburg (they uses the same artwork flyer!), and also Volly Batter Up. All those released in 1974 and which, the game play is similar but not exactly look-alike Midway/Taito Ball Park, which also came out in 1974.
So not only Atari "Pong" has been cloned but many different games as well. Trying to catalog all the non CPU games and which is a clone (or license) of which one is a nut job but i'm crazier than a nut...LOL!!!
Just for instance, Midway Manufacturing Co. only released licensed games (only listing all TTL ones):
* Asteroid = Atari Space Race
* Leader = Ramtek Wipe Out
* Winner/Winner II = Atari Pong
* Winner IV = Atari Pong Doubles
* Ball Park = Taito Ball Park
* Playtime = Err...Gyro Pong ?? (still haven't figured this one)
* TV Basketball = Taito Basketball
* Wheels/Racer = Taito Speed Race
* Wheels II = Taito Speed Race Twin
* TV Flipper = Exidy TV Pinball
I'm i missing any others ?
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: Volly Flip Out etc.
[Re: Sly DC]
#322692 - 02/27/14 10:24 PM
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>>The Volly Flip Out bezel would be a real additional welcome imo.
>No problem! I'll take pictures in a very near future.
Anyone there with a decent size flatbed scanner that can do scans of the bezel piece?
That would be the best solution if getting bezel support of a bezel in MAME artwork section. Best person to ask questions of doing this is Mr. Do
There might be a couple folks that could do the fix ups using Photoshop later to remove and replace any worn out sections of a bezel such as what would need to be done with Clean Sweep bezel scan because the Clean Sweep bezel I have is in poor condition.
>>After looking at photos, Flip Out does not use a blue, acetate overlay sheet like
>>Clean Sweep does?
>Well No and Yes...No if it is the upright model and yes if it is the cocktail model.
>Problem is that i've never saw the cocktail model but will eventually pop up somewhere
>like the upright model (until someone sold one on Ebay last year). But if you look at
>the flyers on TAFA about the cocktail model, it doesn't seems that it uses lamps at all
>but i can be mistaken and uses two control knobs instead of one lever/slider.
Volly Flip Out flyer
http://flyers.arcade-museum.com/?page=thumbs&db=videodb&id=2620
The cocktail table version is too small to use any backlit lamps such as what is used with upright cabs. And it looks like there is no color overlay mask either for the cocktail table model.
Clean Sweep cabs should mainly have the circular knob for controlling the player's paddle, but the photos that Zephyr took of a Clean Sweep cab in 2003 has same left-right joystick lever that can be seen with upright Flip-Out cab.
>>Maybe it could have in the past, but only being a long time southern Californian, I
>>have never seen these cabs way back in mid 1970s when they out there. I only saw and
>>played Clean Sweep and that is it.
>That would be logical to say that you never saw any Volly cabs in California since Volly
>was the Canadian version of Ramtek.
Some cabs get imported from overseas such as what happened to one For-Play Rally cab making its way from southern California overseas to Europe where someone in Europe took photos of the Rally cab that he purchased some time ago.
I did travel during summer 1982 with a drum corps and the corps went back east and up to Montreal and competed at Gill stadium and the top 12 corps competed in DCI finals in Montreal Olympic stadium in 1982. The bummer part is the rules then during early 1980s there was no kids under 18 allowed to go inside arcades after night hours iirc. I quickly darted in one of the places with a couple of other corp members, but got thrown out. I don't recall seeing any 1970s era games at that Montreal arcade other than Galaxians.
>>Clean Sweep bezel has overlay piece taped to inside of the bezel piece. If Flip Out
>>bezel or monitor doesn't have any old tape remnants, then I guess Flip Out didn't use
>>any color overlay piece when it was first marketed.
>For that, i'll have to check inside the Flip-Out cab to confirm (or not).
It might not have used a color overlay mask, but I am curious because if so because the overlay color might be a different shade instead of blue. Unless the previous owners thoroughly scrubbed clean the inside pieces of either the bezel or the monitor (maybe monitor has been changed in the past as well), there should be some remaining old tape remnants either on inside of the bezel piece or along the side edges of the monitor.
>>It actually shows Ramtek and then instead of Wipe Out, it reads Countdown instead.
>
>>I also have Midway Leader paperwork, and one of the schematics has Ramtek Leader on
>>the logic schematic instead of Wipe Out. And for Midway I also have the large D size
>>foldout blue print sheets that show Leader.
>That is very strange but great historical nitpicks (Keith Smith would surely add this in
>his book).
I am guessing what happened back then in mid 1970s is Ramtek had sent schematics to Volly and then a member of Volly's staff used a white-out tape with type written words of Countdown on the tape on top of the original printed word Wipe Out. That way when schematics were printed from a photocopier it would show Ramtek Countdown instead of Ramtek Wipe Out.
It is peculiar coming across this stuff when trying to find any schematics over the years for future non-cpu emulation.
>>I need to ask more questions later regarding the Flip Out cab.
>Well, it would be the time to ask them "before" i go to my friend's house so i could
>answer most if not all of your questions.
I'll send questions as a message later instead of posting on forum.
>>I don't remember the exact game, but there is one example where I believe a non-cpu
>>videogame was on the market and a different company marketed the same game maybe the
>>following year, but made use of a cpu.
>I have one in mind but it is the same company who both released the same game as a
>Discrete Logic and with a CPU: Midway (Taito) Ball Park (all TTL) and Midway Tornado
>Baseball (CPU - emulated in MAME). Both same game.
>Also, Ramtek released Baseball and Deluxe Baseball and license it to Seeburg (they uses
>the same artwork flyer!), and also Volly Batter Up. All those released in 1974 and
>which, the game play is similar but not exactly look-alike Midway/Taito Ball Park,
>which also came out in 1974.
To sort of clear things (hopefully clear rather than muddle), Ramtek licensed Baseball to Midway. Midway renamed their product as Midway Ball Park. Both Baseball and Ball Park are dual board non-cpu games. Ramtek Baseball has been dumped, but Midway Ball Park pcbs are on the wanted list just like Midway Leader.
Taito Ball Park could be a clone of Midway Tornado Baseball, but just my guess until any actual Taito Ball Park paperwork can be found later.
>Just for instance, Midway Manufacturing Co. only released licensed games (only listing
>all TTL ones):
>* Asteroid = Atari Space Race
>* Leader = Ramtek Wipe Out
>* Winner/Winner II = Atari Pong
>* Winner IV = Atari Pong Doubles
>* Ball Park = Taito Ball Park <--should be Ramtek Baseball verified by paperwork
>* Playtime = Err...Gyro Pong ?? (still haven't figured this one)
>* TV Basketball = Taito Basketball
>* Wheels/Racer = Taito Speed Race
>* Wheels II = Taito Speed Race Twin
>* TV Flipper = Exidy TV Pinball
I am not sure if Midway had business dealings with Exidy in 1970s. TV Flipper is same gameplay, but iirc the points scoring is different.
Whereas Exidy did deal with Chicago Coin
Going by Chicago Coin and Exidy
TV Pin Game = Exidy TV Pinball
Demolition Derby = Exidy Destruction Derby
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Posts: 8588
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Loc: southern CA, US
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*bumped*
[Re: gregf]
#385803 - 04/06/20 04:39 AM
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To keep very old thread around a bit longer.
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Re: *bumped*
[Re: gregf]
#385817 - 04/06/20 08:07 PM
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I remember when DICE was active (sort of). I miss those days. Sheesh, how much time has passed. Hopefully they all will be in MAME some day.
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Re: *bumped*
[Re: Antny]
#385828 - 04/07/20 04:17 AM
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> I remember when DICE was active (sort of). I miss those days. Sheesh, how much time
> has passed. Hopefully they all will be in MAME some day.
Me too. I was hoping yo see Fonz and Death Race
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Posts: 8588
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Loc: southern CA, US
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Re: Fonz and Death Race
[Re: sirscotty]
#385830 - 04/07/20 09:49 AM
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>> I remember when DICE was active (sort of). I miss those days. Sheesh, how much time
>> has passed. Hopefully they all will be in MAME some day.
>Me too. I was hoping to see Fonz and Death Race
I still say chances are good with the fact roms and or proms dumped since that is important itself. I am glad Andy Welburn contributed with Sega Fonz roms. I wasn't sure if roms from Fonz would ever show up in MAME. The next part would be emulation of ttl components in case there are specific components used with Fonz and Death Race that are still not yet emulated.
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Re: Fonz and Death Race
[Re: gregf]
#385836 - 04/07/20 05:13 PM
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>
> I still say chances are good with the fact roms and or proms dumped since that is
> important itself. I am glad Andy Welburn contributed with Sega Fonz roms. I wasn't
> sure if roms from Fonz would ever show up in MAME. The next part would be emulation
> of ttl components in case there are specific components used with Fonz and Death Race
> that are still not yet emulated.
Wouldn't FPGA be a good idea for emulating these kind of non CPU games? When I first started reading about FPGA years ago, I thought for sure we would see some of the old non-cpu games by now.
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| Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Reged: 03/07/04
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Re: Fonz and Death Race
[Re: sirscotty]
#385849 - 04/08/20 11:56 PM
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> Wouldn't FPGA be a good idea for emulating these kind of non CPU games? When I first
> started reading about FPGA years ago, I thought for sure we would see some of the old
> non-cpu games by now.
There's definitely been some projects with progress in this direction, you just need to know where to look. See for example this FPGA project that simulates Death Race, Destruction Derby, and Alley Rally.
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=410548
- Stiletto
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Re: Fonz and Death Race
[Re: Stiletto]
#385889 - 04/12/20 09:28 PM
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If anyone could rip images out of the old games and post them here that would be cool. I've tried that old program without much luck. I don't understand the whole thing anyway.
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Posts: 8588
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Re: Fonz and Death Race
[Re: Antny]
#385892 - 04/13/20 05:39 AM
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>I've tried that old program without much luck.
For new MW forum visitors not aware....it dates back to 2014
with Marc Lafontaine's graphics ripper program that was uploaded back then
and should be able to be still downloaded at this time.
time for PSE Desert Patrol mini thread *edit*
10/02/14 Attachment: rip081.zip 152 KB (17 downloads)
https://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sh...part=1&vc=1
*excerpt of 2014 post giving brief usage info of how to work with ripper*
--
For those that have seen data images for Bazooka and wonder how they were generated, it would likely be from Marc Lafontaine's program called Ripper which can be grabbed from here as a zip file attachment. The zip file also includes same instructions I typed here for how to view PSE game images and an image of airplane targets from Desert Patrol.
Marc Lafontaine contributed to MAME during MAME's early years such as this entry for release .13 from 1997.
0.13
----
- Marc Lafontaine submitted a new palette for Zaxxon.
The program has capability of viewing images off of some roms of 1970s and some 1980s era arcade video games. For an example of describing how to view images of either PSE Bazooka or PSE Desert Patrol, load a file where it says file1 and press CP. Set the width to 32 and in the algorithm you have to change the bits to reverse order.
The 'change the bits to reverse order' might not make sense, but what this means is the user presses the algorithm button and then a different screen appears. User presses the Clear button, and after doing that then click on number buttons in direction of going from right to left side (ie 'reverse orer').
Once that is done, then press okay, then set width to setting of 32 and then press the CP button while Desert Patrol's file 'L4' is loaded as file1.
The images of various airplane targets will then appear on the screen, but in an upside down position. The upside down snap image, can be fixed by using a paint editor program to have the image rotated to a right side up position.
-
Assuming any user has roms for either Exidy Death Race or Robot Hunting and have already downloaded Marc Lafontaine's graphics ripper program from old 2014 post. I don't have either rom set myself.
Experiment with proms type 82S123: 256-bit (32x8) TTL bipolar PROM with tri-state outputs
Try Robot Hunting rom set since that is considered valid compared to Death Race rom set.
Load up any of these four files within the Robot Hunting rom set to see if any images
are visible. Experimenting with ripper control settings may come into play. Good luck if
anyone tries to work with extracting any images from Robot Hunting with these four rom files: 6331-1.e7, 6331-1.r7, 6331-1.t7, 6331-1.g7
82S123 36 6331-1.e7 E7 right gremlin 1
82S123 36 6331-1.r7 R7 left gremlin 1
82S123 35 6331-1.t7 T7 left car 1
82S123 35 6331-1.g7 G7 right car 1
--
src/mame/drivers/exidyttl.cpp
ROM_START( rhunting )
82S123 36 6331-1.e7 E7 right gremlin 1
82S129 J10 right gremlin 2
82S123 36 6331-1.r7 R7 left gremlin 1
82S129 91 10V left gremlin 2
82S129 V5 left car 1
82S123 35 6331-1.t7 T7 left car 1
82S123 35 6331-1.g7 G7 right car 1
82S129 J5 right car 1
image generation sheet 11J - 11M
GAME( 1976, rhunting, deathrac, deathrac, 0, exidyttl_state, empty_init, ROT0, "bootleg", "Robot Hunting (bootleg of Death Race) [TTL]",MACHINE_IS_SKELETON )
--
For Sega Fonz fans, there are three roms that the Fonz pdf logic schematics file describes as 'shape' proms. Logic schematics for Fonz is vague so it will be a guessing
game with any of the three files: ic86.86, ic87.87, pr-08.50
Hopefully some image can be found/generated using ripper with Fonz romset.
--
src/mame/drivers/segattl.cpp
IC86.86 MMI 6306 (dumped as AMD 27S13) 0390
IC87.87 MMI 6306 (dumped as AMD 27S13) 050D
PR-09.49 TI 74S287
PR-08.50 TI 74S287
ROM_START( fonz )
ic86.86 shape MM1 6306-1
ic87.87 shape MM1 6306-1
pr-09.49 245287
pr-08.50 shape 245287
GAME( 1976, fonz, 0, segattl, 0, segattl_state, empty_init, ROT0, "Sega", "Fonz [TTL]", MACHINE_IS_SKELETON )
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Index 
Threaded 
Clean Sweep Schematics
Reply
[Re: 
