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Delayed stuttering in MAME caused by CPU or GPU?
#315759 - 10/13/13 07:03 AM
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I'm just getting a bit more into MAME again after a few years absence (got a little less interested when my plans to build a cabinet died after realizing there was no way to fit a cabinet into my house). I'm currently messing around with HLSL and love the way it simulates the look of the old CRT monitors on my laptop's LCD screen.
The weird thing is, I'll load up a game in MAME with HLSL on, and for a good while (like the first run-through of the attract mode in games) the game runs full speed like it does with HLSL off. Then, out of nowhere, it will start to stutter and slowdown and the framerate will drop to about 40-50%. If I exit out of a game and go back into a different game, the stuttering remains. If I exit out of MAME entirely then go back in, the game will run fine again until going through a round of the attract mode.
I'm just wondering if this is caused by my CPU speed not being fast enough, not enough RAM, or my GPU not being powerful enough? My system specs are:
Intel T9300 Penryn CPU running at 2.5 GHz.
nVidia 8700M GT video card.
4 GB RAM
Windows Vista 64 bit Home Premium.
I'm somewhat thinking of getting myself a new laptop as this one is 6 years old now and I've certainly gotten my money's worth, but before investing in a new laptop I was wondering what causes the stuttering I'm seeing after some time in a game (doesn't matter what game I run), and where I should invest more money in the future; the CPU or the GPU?
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| Sune |
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Re: Delayed stuttering in MAME caused by CPU or GPU?
[Re: Jdurgi]
#315761 - 10/13/13 07:58 AM
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> for a good while
> (like the first run-through of the attract mode in games) the game runs full speed
> like it does with HLSL off. Then, out of nowhere, it will start to stutter and
> slowdown and the framerate will drop to about 40-50%. If I exit out of a game and go
> back into a different game, the stuttering remains. If I exit out of MAME entirely
> then go back in, the game will run fine again until going through a round of the
> attract mode.
Maybe overheat protection kicking in?
Disable vsync and triplebuffer (anything that mentions sync and refresh rate) in mame.ini, try running mame in a window. Try disabling multithreading.
Check the nvidia driver control panel to see if you have vsync forced on for D3D applications. Try resetting to default settings.
S
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| Jdurgi |
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Re: Delayed stuttering in MAME caused by CPU or GPU?
[Re: Sune]
#315762 - 10/13/13 10:19 AM
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> > for a good while
> > (like the first run-through of the attract mode in games) the game runs full speed
> > like it does with HLSL off. Then, out of nowhere, it will start to stutter and
> > slowdown and the framerate will drop to about 40-50%. If I exit out of a game and
> go
> > back into a different game, the stuttering remains. If I exit out of MAME entirely
> > then go back in, the game will run fine again until going through a round of the
> > attract mode.
>
> Maybe overheat protection kicking in?
>
> Disable vsync and triplebuffer (anything that mentions sync and refresh rate) in
> mame.ini, try running mame in a window. Try disabling multithreading.
>
> Check the nvidia driver control panel to see if you have vsync forced on for D3D
> applications. Try resetting to default settings.
>
> S
I now think that it's my GPU throttling itself down due to high temperatures. When running MAME with the HLSL active for a while, I noticed that my GPU temp was approaching 99 degress Celsius! After stopping MAME for a while, or if turning HLSL off, the temperatures quickly dropped to it's idle temp of 60 C. (Yes, this mobile graphics card runs INSANELY hot). So I think that the GPU is throttling, thus causing HLSL to hiccup and MAME to stutter. So I think when I go and look into getting a different laptop some time in the future, I'll ensure I get one with good cooling for the GPU so that it won't throttle on me.
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Re: Delayed stuttering in MAME caused by CPU or GPU?
[Re: Jdurgi]
#316010 - 10/17/13 03:46 AM
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> So I think that the GPU is throttling, thus causing
> HLSL to hiccup and MAME to stutter. So I think when I go and look into getting a
> different laptop some time in the future, I'll ensure I get one with good cooling for
> the GPU so that it won't throttle on me.
I don't think there is such a thing as a throttle free nvidia laptop GPU. I mean, I would hope not.
Maybe this will be useful: http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia-system-tools-6.08-driver.html
I can't remember anymore if it allows you to underclock as well but if it does, you can use it to prevent overheating, or at least delay it. Maybe this way you can have consistent performance for a longer time until thermal throttling kicks in.
HLSL is difficult to configure and there are different ways to achieve the same final look. Some settings are major GPU burners, others not so much. Careful with the prescale value for example, don't set it higher than 2 or 3, especially on later games that run at higher resolutions.
If you give it some time you could probably achieve a look that you are happy with using settings that put less stress on your GPU.
I'm still not done tweaking mine. I have no idea what most of the parameters even mean. I'd have to study CRT technology for a few years at least. Until then, as far as I'm concerned, "Front Porch" is a place where you might sit and enjoy a cold beer.
S
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Re: Delayed stuttering in MAME caused by CPU or GPU?
[Re: Sune]
#316023 - 10/17/13 07:21 AM
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> > So I think that the GPU is throttling, thus causing
> > HLSL to hiccup and MAME to stutter. So I think when I go and look into getting a
> > different laptop some time in the future, I'll ensure I get one with good cooling
> for
> > the GPU so that it won't throttle on me.
>
> I don't think there is such a thing as a throttle free nvidia laptop GPU. I mean, I
> would hope not.
>
> Maybe this will be useful:
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia-system-tools-6.08-driver.html
> I can't remember anymore if it allows you to underclock as well but if it does, you
> can use it to prevent overheating, or at least delay it. Maybe this way you can have
> consistent performance for a longer time until thermal throttling kicks in.
>
> HLSL is difficult to configure and there are different ways to achieve the same final
> look. Some settings are major GPU burners, others not so much. Careful with the
> prescale value for example, don't set it higher than 2 or 3, especially on later
> games that run at higher resolutions.
> If you give it some time you could probably achieve a look that you are happy with
> using settings that put less stress on your GPU.
> I'm still not done tweaking mine. I have no idea what most of the parameters even
> mean. I'd have to study CRT technology for a few years at least. Until then, as far
> as I'm concerned, "Front Porch" is a place where you might sit and enjoy a cold beer.
>
> S
Yeah, it is definitely a tweakers dream. Heh. I'm still a long ways away from moving forward and getting a new computer, though there is a part of me that is thinking of just getting a desktop, and simply putting a keyboard and LCD screen on my table near my couch where I have my laptop now. Lots of options. Just trying to think ahead.
The HLSL stuff is pretty fucking amazing though.
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Trust in me and fall as well.
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| Jdurgi |
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Re: Delayed stuttering in MAME caused by CPU or GPU?
[Re: Jdurgi]
#323354 - 03/15/14 03:49 AM
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Okay, I'm bumping my old thread up a bit, but I've got some more questions. 
I've figured out how to build a cabinet that will fit in my house and have it all speced out. I've gotten a 27" LCD screen which is pretty much a spot on match, resolution wise, to my laptop monitor. It's just a shit-ton brighter and better looking. So it won't take too much further tweaking of my HLSL settings with the new build.
I'm not worried about CPU speed as the games I'll be running won't come close to maxing out the Intel i7 k-series chip I'll likely buy. It's the GPU I'm not settled on.
What Graphics Card should I get that won't cost a ton of money, but will easily handle long sessions of gaming with HLSL at a native LCD resolution of 1920x1080?
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Re: Delayed stuttering in MAME caused by CPU or GPU?
[Re: Jdurgi]
#323394 - 03/16/14 01:55 PM
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I can't recommend a specific card, but I have read that the more VRAM it has, the better for HLSL.
I've just ordered a new MAME PC which has a 2GB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti, which I'm hoping will be good enough. I'll post back when I get the PC and have given it a test.
Apparently, no on-board GPU is likely to be good enough for smooth HLSL.
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| Jdurgi |
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Re: Delayed stuttering in MAME caused by CPU or GPU?
[Re: big10p]
#323408 - 03/16/14 06:57 PM
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> I can't recommend a specific card, but I have read that the more VRAM it has, the
> better for HLSL.
>
> I've just ordered a new MAME PC which has a 2GB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti, which I'm
> hoping will be good enough. I'll post back when I get the PC and have given it a
> test.
>
> Apparently, no on-board GPU is likely to be good enough for smooth HLSL.
Thanks. Yeah, onboard GPUs are a no-no. My laptop has a GeForce 8700M GT in it and that runs HLSL beautifully, but after a while it begins to stutter. That's probably due to thermal throttling, or due to the meager 512 MB of RAM being used up. With my pending build, cooling won't be an issue. I'll likely be looking into a card with a good amount of RAM on it as I too was thinking that might be more critical. (Since the card has to scale the image to a large size, and therefore needs a lot of RAM to hold all the data).
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Re: Delayed stuttering in MAME caused by CPU or GPU?
[Re: Jdurgi]
#323567 - 03/19/14 11:16 PM
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Got my MAME PC today and initial tests look good! Running Prehistoric Isle fullscreen at 1920x1080 32bit with HLSL on, I get ~850% with throttle off (F10). Vertical games I've tried run closer to 950%.
PC is a 4th gen i3-4130 @ 3.4Ghz, with 8GB RAM, BTW.
I'm well pleased with the rig so far, but I'll post any other significant findings I have, if need.
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Re: Delayed stuttering in MAME caused by CPU or GPU?
[Re: big10p]
#323570 - 03/20/14 01:34 AM
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> Got my MAME PC today and initial tests look good! Running Prehistoric Isle fullscreen
> at 1920x1080 32bit with HLSL on, I get ~850% with throttle off (F10). Vertical games
> I've tried run closer to 950%.
>
> PC is a 4th gen i3-4130 @ 3.4Ghz, with 8GB RAM, BTW.
>
> I'm well pleased with the rig so far, but I'll post any other significant findings I
> have, if need.
Thanks man. I'd be interested to see how it holds up to extended periods of play.
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Re: Delayed stuttering in MAME caused by CPU or GPU?
[Re: Jdurgi]
#323588 - 03/20/14 12:15 PM
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Well, I've left it running a game flat out (throttle off, 0 frameskip) with fullscreen HLSL and the GPU temp doesn't seem to go above 60 degrees. This GeForce GTX 750 Ti comes with a GPU monitoring/overclocking tool which the manual says not to let the GPU go above 90 degrees, so I'm still way short of that. Running the game a normal 100% speed, the temp barely goes above 30 degrees.
I'm pretty sure the throttling issue you experienced is simply due to laptop onboard GPUs being pretty weak (by comparison) and so have to work that much harder. Coupled with the fact they have limited cooling.
I wouldn't expect to have such problems with a desktop PC. Well, not running MAME, anyway.
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Re: Delayed stuttering in MAME caused by CPU or GPU?
[Re: big10p]
#323608 - 03/21/14 01:01 AM
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> Well, I've left it running a game flat out (throttle off, 0 frameskip) with
> fullscreen HLSL and the GPU temp doesn't seem to go above 60 degrees. This GeForce
> GTX 750 Ti comes with a GPU monitoring/overclocking tool which the manual says not to
> let the GPU go above 90 degrees, so I'm still way short of that. Running the game a
> normal 100% speed, the temp barely goes above 30 degrees.
>
> I'm pretty sure the throttling issue you experienced is simply due to laptop onboard
> GPUs being pretty weak (by comparison) and so have to work that much harder. Coupled
> with the fact they have limited cooling.
>
> I wouldn't expect to have such problems with a desktop PC. Well, not running MAME,
> anyway.
VERY good to know! Yeah, my laptop GPU is actually pretty good for running HLSL in MAME as the monitor resolution is only 1680x1050 which isn't super massive. The new monitor I bought for the cab I'm building is 1920x1080 I believe, so that's not a massively detailed resolution either. For the stuttering issue I started this thread about so many moons ago, it is indeed caused by the graphics card in my laptop throttling down when the GPU temp increases due to the workload. In the cab I'm building, there will be PLENTY of room to allow the GPU to remain cool and not overheat, thus enabling the throttling.
I was just more confused about what was better, more RAM or a higher clock speed. Since my laptop's clock speed is good enough to initially run HLSL for a good five-ten minutes before overheating, I won't need to go and get a super fast, expensive modern card. I think I'll shoot for one that has a good deal of RAM and a good cooler on it. I'm not concerned with running the most modern 3D games in it since the cab is being built for playing Street Fighter games.
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