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Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
#319881 - 01/06/14 10:37 PM
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On the left we have MAME's default scanlines. On the right we have upside down scanlines (I simply rotated the file "Scanlines75dx4_J4.png" by 180 degrees in photoshop).
To me, the rotated version looks better; keeping the first pixel of each line the original colour and shading the secondary line (instead of the default, which is the other way around) seems to make objects, text at least, look more defined. Objects take on a chunkier appearance and I find this to be more reminiscent of a good, low-bloom CRT screen. Or what I remember of CRTs from the 1990's anyway...
I found that text is where the difference is most noticeable hence I made the mockup using some text from Super Street Fighter II.
What do you think guys? Interested to hear peoples opinions on this.
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| Sune |
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: RowanDDR]
#319882 - 01/06/14 10:51 PM
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> What do you think guys?
I think you're an idiot.
Or you're acting like one on purpose, which is worse.
S
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: Sune]
#319883 - 01/06/14 10:58 PM
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Hi Sune. You might like to re-examine my post as you appear to have misinterpreted it as some sort of joke, which it is not.
You also might like to think about why you are such a rude person. Perhaps you are frustrated because there is an area of your life which you are unhappy with or you are a failure?
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Tafoid |
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I keep on testing.. testing.. testing... into the future!
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: RowanDDR]
#319884 - 01/06/14 11:13 PM
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> On the left we have MAME's default scanlines. On the right we have upside down
> scanlines (I simply rotated the file "Scanlines75dx4_J4.png" by 180 degrees in
> photoshop).
>
> To me, the rotated version looks better; keeping the first pixel of each line the
> original colour and shading the secondary line (instead of the default, which is the
> other way around) seems to make objects, text at least, look more defined. Objects
> take on a chunkier appearance and I find this to be more reminiscent of a good,
> low-bloom CRT screen. Or what I remember of CRTs from the 1990's anyway...
>
> I found that text is where the difference is most noticeable hence I made the mockup
> using some text from Super Street Fighter II.
>
> What do you think guys? Interested to hear peoples opinions on this.
The effects were flexible and people could adjust them to taste (as you did with your rotated version), however, you might not get many opinions as most people have abandoned the -effect .PNG in lieu of the -HLSL shaders to simulate CRTs.
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: RowanDDR]
#319899 - 01/07/14 04:00 AM
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The thing is, both of those effects are so far from a real CRT that it really makes no difference. A CRT won't produce hard alternating lines like that. It will be brightest at the centre of the beam and drop off on either side. It will also blend between lines somewhat. You're not going to get a sensible answer to something as silly as what you posted.
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| Tomu Breidah |
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No Problems, Only Solutions
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: RowanDDR]
#319910 - 01/07/14 05:37 AM
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If you like the way it looks when it's X then go with X.
Me? Makes no difference. I like to think of it as like a sandwich. I might like tomato and a slice of cheese on it somewhere. What order they're stacked in makes no difference. I still get to eat it.
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: Matty_]
#319912 - 01/07/14 06:18 AM
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> A CRT won't produce hard alternating lines like that.
A decent CRT will, they leave pretty much black lines when showing a 15khz non interlaced display. TV's are more blurry and don't just up lines at all.
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: ]
#319913 - 01/07/14 06:40 AM
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> > A CRT won't produce hard alternating lines like that.
>
> A decent CRT will, they leave pretty much black lines when showing a 15khz non
> interlaced display. TV's are more blurry and don't just up lines at all.
There are two reasonable setups. If you're intending to display 15kHz you'll have the beam focus soft enough that you'll get softness and blending on both sides of each scanline. If you're intending to display high resolution you'll have the beam focus as sharp as possible, so you'll get lit lines with nothing between them. Neither will produce an exact dimmer version of each line on one side only.
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: Matty_]
#319914 - 01/07/14 06:45 AM
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> If you're intending to display 15kHz you'll have the
> beam focus soft enough
It's 15khz in both, I assume you mean interlaced vs non interlaced.
> Neither will produce an exact dimmer version of each line on one side only.
Yeah, I've never seen anything that resembles that effect on real hardware. It probably came from War Games where they crank up the brightness to make it look good on screen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAcEzhQ7oqA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHWjlCaIrQo
http://www.imsai.net/movies/wargames-2.htm
Number of players "Zero", yeah right.
Has anyone ever figured out how Joshua speaks with the same voice on different computers, was there only one speech synthesizer back then or something?
Edited by smf (01/07/14 06:54 AM)
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: ]
#319936 - 01/07/14 08:40 PM
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> Yeah, I've never seen anything that resembles that effect on real hardware. It
> probably came from War Games where they crank up the brightness to make it look good
> on screen.
A similar effect is commonly used to convey "TV" in movies (and occasionally in TV shows, where you'd think they'd know better). It's quite jarring when the TV being depicted is HD.
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: RowanDDR]
#319937 - 01/07/14 08:53 PM
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> Hi Sune. You might like to re-examine my post as you appear to have misinterpreted it
> as some sort of joke, which it is not.
>
> You also might like to think about why you are such a rude person. Perhaps you are
> frustrated because there is an area of your life which you are unhappy with or you
> are a failure?
Hi Rowan, I would like to fuck you in the arse. Unlike the whore I fucked tonight, you might make me cum. If you don't, that's an area of your life in which you are a failure. Is your arse tight enough to make me cum or are you an unhappy failure in your life?
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#319938 - 01/07/14 08:59 PM
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> A similar effect is commonly used to convey "TV" in movies (and occasionally in TV
> shows, where you'd think they'd know better). It's quite jarring when the TV being
> depicted is HD.
And camcorder footage always is always shown with an on screen display with a flashing REC.
In the UK there is a new fad on TV http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_faking Any shot of a city seems to use it now.
Edited by smf (01/07/14 09:05 PM)
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| Sune |
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#319939 - 01/07/14 09:14 PM
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> > Hi Sune. You might like to re-examine my post as you appear to have misinterpreted
> it
> > as some sort of joke, which it is not.
> >
> > You also might like to think about why you are such a rude person. Perhaps you are
> > frustrated because there is an area of your life which you are unhappy with or you
> > are a failure?
>
> Hi Rowan, I would like to fuck you in the arse. Unlike the whore I fucked tonight,
> you might make me cum. If you don't, that's an area of your life in which you are a
> failure. Is your arse tight enough to make me cum or are you an unhappy failure in
> your life?
*lmao* are you okay Vas?? haha
S
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: RowanDDR]
#319945 - 01/07/14 11:44 PM
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> On the left we have MAME's default scanlines. On the right we have upside down
> scanlines (I simply rotated the file "Scanlines75dx4_J4.png" by 180 degrees in
> photoshop).
>
> To me, the rotated version looks better; keeping the first pixel of each line the
> original colour and shading the secondary line (instead of the default, which is the
> other way around) seems to make objects, text at least, look more defined. Objects
> take on a chunkier appearance and I find this to be more reminiscent of a good,
> low-bloom CRT screen. Or what I remember of CRTs from the 1990's anyway...
>
> I found that text is where the difference is most noticeable hence I made the mockup
> using some text from Super Street Fighter II.
>
> What do you think guys? Interested to hear peoples opinions on this.
Technically yes, the way things are in mame is indeed upside down; think about how a raster screen is drawn to see why.
LN
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"When life gives you zombies... *CHA-CHIK!* ...you make zombie-ade!"
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: Lord Nightmare]
#319963 - 01/08/14 04:19 AM
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> Technically yes, the way things are in mame is indeed upside down; think about how a
> raster screen is drawn to see why.
I'm not sure there is a technical explanation for why it would look like any of the ways scanlines are generated.
They'd only be upside down if it worked like paint that slid down the screen.
If a monitor is out of focus it will affect the scan lines above and below as much as each other. Something like:
000000000000000000000000000000000000
010101010101010101010101010101010101
111111111111111111111111111111111111
121212121212121212121212121212121212
222222222222222222222222222222222222
232323232323232323232323232323232323
333333333333333333333333333333333333
Edited by smf (01/08/14 04:19 AM)
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#319967 - 01/08/14 05:08 AM
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> > Hi Sune. You might like to re-examine my post as you appear to have misinterpreted
> it
> > as some sort of joke, which it is not.
> >
> > You also might like to think about why you are such a rude person. Perhaps you are
> > frustrated because there is an area of your life which you are unhappy with or you
> > are a failure?
>
> Hi Rowan, I would like to fuck you in the arse. Unlike the whore I fucked tonight,
> you might make me cum. If you don't, that's an area of your life in which you are a
> failure. Is your arse tight enough to make me cum or are you an unhappy failure in
> your life?
What in the fucking hell? This is a MAME messageboard, not 4chan.
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: ]
#319976 - 01/08/14 07:25 AM
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> > Technically yes, the way things are in mame is indeed upside down; think about how
> a
> > raster screen is drawn to see why.
>
> I'm not sure there is a technical explanation for why it would look like any of the
> ways scanlines are generated.
>
> They'd only be upside down if it worked like paint that slid down the screen.
> If a monitor is out of focus it will affect the scan lines above and below as much as
> each other. Something like:
>
> 000000000000000000000000000000000000
> 010101010101010101010101010101010101
> 111111111111111111111111111111111111
> 121212121212121212121212121212121212
> 222222222222222222222222222222222222
> 232323232323232323232323232323232323
> 333333333333333333333333333333333333
True.
LN
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"When life gives you zombies... *CHA-CHIK!* ...you make zombie-ade!"
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: Alegend45]
#320074 - 01/10/14 06:05 AM
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> > Hi Rowan, I would like to fuck you in the arse. Unlike the whore I fucked tonight,
> > you might make me cum. If you don't, that's an area of your life in which you are a
> > failure. Is your arse tight enough to make me cum or are you an unhappy failure in
> > your life?
>
> What in the fucking hell? This is a MAME messageboard, not 4chan.
Yeah, that was a, uh, Matty response. Whew. Tastae.
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_________________
Culture General Contact Unit (Eccentric)
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This one ^^^^
[Re: Tafoid]
#320075 - 01/10/14 06:07 AM
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> The effects were flexible and people could adjust them to taste (as you did with your
> rotated version), however, you might not get many opinions as most people have
> abandoned the -effect .PNG in lieu of the -HLSL shaders to simulate CRTs.
Others coming off the holidays with hang-overs?........
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Scifi frauds. SF illuminates.
_________________
Culture General Contact Unit (Eccentric)
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Re: Are MAME's scanlines upside down?
[Re: Traso]
#320077 - 01/10/14 07:02 AM
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> > What in the fucking hell? This is a MAME messageboard, not 4chan.
>
> Yeah, that was a, uh, Matty response. Whew. Tastae.
Hey leave me out of this - smf, R.Belmont and I have all been perfectly reasonable and civil in this thread, while offering our enlightened views based on our years of experience.
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