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Where does arcade systems superior anti-aliasing or resolution come from!
#328703 - 07/27/14 03:26 AM
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It look superior to in console and PC games. Is there a add-on for the arcade monitor chassis's for that effect! I brought a Nanao and got a VGA adapter and plugged my PC up to it but couldn't notice that effect but can notice it well on the arcade machines, maybe only certain models or certain brands or arcade screens can do that effect i don't know.
There is clearly a noticeable difference
Sega Rally on Arcade Machine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGbRdMakeQc
Sega Rally on PC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sXJiEGwBpI
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I am the original retro game dork.
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| Sune |
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Re: Where does arcade systems superior anti-aliasing or resolution come from!
[Re: RetroFan4554]
#328720 - 07/27/14 08:55 AM
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> It look superior to in console and PC games. Is there a add-on for the arcade monitor
> chassis's for that effect!
No, that's just what it looks like.
I brought a Nanao and got a VGA adapter and plugged my PC
> up to it but couldn't notice that effect but can notice it well on the arcade
> machines, maybe only certain models or certain brands or arcade screens can do that
> effect i don't know.
Try hooking up a real arcade PCB to your Nanao monitor.
S
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Re: Where does arcade systems superior anti-aliasing or resolution come from!
[Re: Sune]
#328723 - 07/27/14 09:49 AM
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> > It look superior to in console and PC games. Is there a add-on for the arcade
> monitor
> > chassis's for that effect!
>
> No, that's just what it looks like.
>
> I brought a Nanao and got a VGA adapter and plugged my PC
> > up to it but couldn't notice that effect but can notice it well on the arcade
> > machines, maybe only certain models or certain brands or arcade screens can do that
> > effect i don't know.
>
> Try hooking up a real arcade PCB to your Nanao monitor.
>
> S
If it is PCB related then shouldn't modern PC hardware be able to produce any effect that old arcade hardware can! There is a way to get that display with a PC on a arcade monitor but i don't know how, i seen emulator cabinets with that display on youtube.
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I am the original retro game dork.
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Re: Where does arcade systems superior anti-aliasing or resolution come from!
[Re: RetroFan4554]
#328726 - 07/27/14 11:41 AM
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They have neither anti-aliasing nor superior resolution.
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Re: Where does arcade systems superior anti-aliasing or resolution come from!
[Re: RetroFan4554]
#328729 - 07/27/14 11:57 AM
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> There is clearly a noticeable difference
> Sega Rally on PC
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sXJiEGwBpI
It's an emulator that is HLE'ing the video using Direct3D. They are guaranteed to look different as they don't use the same algorithm for texture mapping.
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Re: Where does arcade systems superior anti-aliasing or resolution come from!
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#328731 - 07/27/14 01:01 PM
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> They have neither anti-aliasing nor superior resolution.
I am not saying it is clearer than on a LCD on the old CRT in that Sega Rally cabinet, i don't mean superior in that way, it is hard to describe the effect.
It is some kind of powerful smooth res, here it is in a more modern arcade game, a clearer video so you can notice more what i am talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAMnUkYXUsw&index=1&list=UU3IOB2Apdn7IJv8MtgFdwrA
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Re: Where does arcade systems superior anti-aliasing or resolution come from!
[Re: ]
#328732 - 07/27/14 01:26 PM
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> > There is clearly a noticeable difference
>
> > Sega Rally on PC
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sXJiEGwBpI
>
> It's an emulator that is HLE'ing the video using Direct3D. They are guaranteed to
> look different as they don't use the same algorithm for texture mapping.
The colors in the other video of Sega Rally are from the CRT tube, home LCD's can't produce that color that is why the colors looks a lot different in that video, that i know, only industrial Arcade LCD's have the versatility to emulate CRT color, where the smooth res or whatever that powerful effect comes from, i don't know, maybe you are right but even Sega's remake of Sega Rally Arcade for the PS2 didn't have that effect, so that is why i was thinking it could be some filter connected to the arcade monitor chassis's that produces that effect, i don't know, i am ignorant about the arcade resolution.
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I am the original retro game dork.
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Re: Where does arcade systems superior anti-aliasing or resolution come from!
[Re: RetroFan4554]
#328734 - 07/27/14 02:08 PM
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> i don't know, i am ignorant about the
> arcade resolution.
Really? You don't say. 
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Where does arcade systems superior anti-aliasing or resolution come from!
[Re: RetroFan4554]
#328738 - 07/27/14 02:54 PM
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> If it is PCB related then shouldn't modern PC hardware be able to produce any effect
> that old arcade hardware can! There is a way to get that display with a PC on a
> arcade monitor but i don't know how, i seen emulator cabinets with that display on
> youtube.
Yeah, it's called "running at the exact (low) resolution the real games did". GroovyMAME does that, occasionally with help from a special video card called the "ArcadeVGA".
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Re: Where does arcade systems superior anti-aliasing or resolution come from!
[Re: R. Belmont]
#328779 - 07/28/14 03:15 AM
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> > If it is PCB related then shouldn't modern PC hardware be able to produce any effect
> > that old arcade hardware can! There is a way to get that display with a PC on a
> > arcade monitor but i don't know how, i seen emulator cabinets with that display on
> > youtube.
>
> Yeah, it's called "running at the exact (low) resolution the real games did".
> GroovyMAME does that, occasionally with help from a special video card called the
> "ArcadeVGA".
And using a tube with slow phosphor, and adjusting beam focus to suit the resolution you're using, and carefully tuning the greyscale setup on the monitor... Doing it right requires effort, but it definitely has nothing to do with resolution or anti-aliasing.
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Re: Where does arcade systems superior anti-aliasing or resolution come from!
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#328780 - 07/28/14 03:30 AM
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> > > If it is PCB related then shouldn't modern PC hardware be able to produce any
> effect
> > > that old arcade hardware can! There is a way to get that display with a PC on a
> > > arcade monitor but i don't know how, i seen emulator cabinets with that display
> on
> > > youtube.
> >
> > Yeah, it's called "running at the exact (low) resolution the real games did".
> > GroovyMAME does that, occasionally with help from a special video card called the
> > "ArcadeVGA".
>
> And using a tube with slow phosphor, and adjusting beam focus to suit the resolution
> you're using, and carefully tuning the greyscale setup on the monitor... Doing it
> right requires effort, but it definitely has nothing to do with resolution or
> anti-aliasing.
What TV's or arcade screens have a tube with slow phosphor!
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I am the original retro game dork.
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Re: Where does arcade systems superior anti-aliasing or resolution come from!
[Re: RetroFan4554]
#328790 - 07/28/14 08:01 AM
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> What TV's or arcade screens have a tube with slow phosphor!
Pretty much any TV designed for classic PAL/NTSC or any purpose-built arcade monitor will have slow phosphor. Professional video monitors and computer monitors often have fast phosphor. You won't get equivalent effects on LCDs.
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Re: Where does arcade systems superior anti-aliasing or resolution come from!
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#328793 - 07/28/14 10:04 AM
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> > What TV's or arcade screens have a tube with slow phosphor!
>
> Pretty much any TV designed for classic PAL/NTSC or any purpose-built arcade monitor
> will have slow phosphor. Professional video monitors and computer monitors often have
> fast phosphor. You won't get equivalent effects on LCDs.
Arcade LCD can do same effect, it uses a 42'' Makvision
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAMnUkYXUsw&index=1&list=UU3IOB2Apdn7IJv8MtgFdwrA
So with a CRT TV how would you get the motion as smooth as that with the phoshor, i am striving for the authentic arcade look in my retro games.
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I am the original retro game dork.
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Re: Where does arcade systems superior anti-aliasing or resolution come from!
[Re: RetroFan4554]
#328804 - 07/28/14 02:22 PM
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> Arcade LCD can do same effect, it uses a 42'' Makvision
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAMnUkYXUsw&index=1&list=UU3IOB2Apdn7IJv8MtgFdwrA
No it can't. You can try to simulate it with programmable shaders, but an LCD simply won't have phosphor and beam effects. It's a completely different technology.
> So with a CRT TV how would you get the motion as smooth as that with the phoshor, i
> am striving for the authentic arcade look in my retro games.
Get a service manual and schematics, take it open, and adjust it until the games look right. This is a complicated procedure that requires you to actually understand how a TV works. It also involves precise adjustment of electrical controls and beam focus magnets. It's not simple and if you don't understand what you're doing you'll just make it look worse.
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Re: Where does arcade systems superior anti-aliasing or resolution come from!
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#328809 - 07/28/14 03:19 PM
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> > Arcade LCD can do same effect, it uses a 42'' Makvision
> >
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAMnUkYXUsw&index=1&list=UU3IOB2Apdn7IJv8MtgFdwrA
>
> No it can't. You can try to simulate it with programmable shaders, but an LCD simply
> won't have phosphor and beam effects. It's a completely different technology.
>
> > So with a CRT TV how would you get the motion as smooth as that with the phoshor, i
> > am striving for the authentic arcade look in my retro games.
>
> Get a service manual and schematics, take it open, and adjust it until the games look
> right. This is a complicated procedure that requires you to actually understand how a
> TV works. It also involves precise adjustment of electrical controls and beam focus
> magnets. It's not simple and if you don't understand what you're doing you'll just
> make it look worse.
Ok thanks guys for the advice.
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I am the original retro game dork.
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Re: Where does arcade systems superior anti-aliasing or resolution come from!
[Re: RetroFan4554]
#328817 - 07/28/14 05:49 PM
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> > > There is clearly a noticeable difference
> >
> > > Sega Rally on PC
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sXJiEGwBpI
> >
> > It's an emulator that is HLE'ing the video using Direct3D. They are guaranteed to
> > look different as they don't use the same algorithm for texture mapping.
>
> The colors in the other video of Sega Rally are from the CRT tube, home LCD's can't
> produce that color that is why the colors looks a lot different in that video, that i
> know, only industrial Arcade LCD's have the versatility to emulate CRT color, where
> the smooth res or whatever that powerful effect comes from, i don't know, maybe you
> are right but even Sega's remake of Sega Rally Arcade for the PS2 didn't have that
> effect, so that is why i was thinking it could be some filter connected to the arcade
> monitor chassis's that produces that effect, i don't know, i am ignorant about the
> arcade resolution.
What are you talking about? Arcade LCDs are complete dogshit. They're basically all cheap TN panels that aren't even calibrated correctly.
All you're seeing is the CRT's shadowmask and scanlines.
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