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Pinball Progress
#332438 - 09/28/14 04:32 AM
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Just wanted to give a shout out to Robbert. He seems to be making good progress with pinball. Can MAME be interfaced with pinball simulators or would there need to be a major changes?
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Tafoid |
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I keep on testing.. testing.. testing... into the future!
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: Antny]
#332455 - 09/28/14 09:26 AM
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> Just wanted to give a shout out to Robbert. He seems to be making good progress with
> pinball. Can MAME be interfaced with pinball simulators or would there need to be a
> major changes?
As has been mentioned before, the eventual plan is to have MAME do its own physical simulation. For now, as they become working, they act as simple plug-in scoreboard replacements for the real thing. There is talk of also making artwork of the play field and making targets/inputs interactive (like chess emulations in MESS) though no operable examples have surfaced yet.
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: Tafoid]
#332544 - 09/30/14 05:01 AM
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> As has been mentioned before, the eventual plan is to have MAME do its own physical simulation. For now, as they become working, they act as simple plug-in scoreboard replacements for the real thing. There is talk of also making artwork of the play field and making targets/inputs interactive (like chess emulations in MESS) though no operable examples have surfaced yet.
I thought them were the same thing.....
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: Tafoid]
#332591 - 10/01/14 03:29 AM
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: Robbbert]
#332599 - 10/01/14 05:26 AM
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> The focus is to get the games working. The nice stuff can come later. For example I
> do not have visual pinball installed, do not know anything about it either. But
> eventually I'm going to have to use it, to find out what it's all about. Obviously
> though, no matter what you do on the computer, it can in no way even approximate the
> experience of a real machine.
Do you or others working on Pinball use PinMAME as a point of reference to see what ROMs do when hooked up and at the very least look at the menu's and such?
In case you didn't know, you can use it without Visual pinball.
http://imgur.com/1JXqT1Z
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: B2K24]
#332602 - 10/01/14 08:02 AM
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: Robbbert]
#332619 - 10/01/14 07:09 PM
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> I have pinmame32 installed, which is fine, but the version of mame core they use is
> so old, that the code is next to useless. There is no debugger, no F4 viewer, no
> insert key (to speed things up), and the code has many local customisations. I do
> refer to it on occasions, especially when no manuals can be found, or when i get
> stuck, but i don't copy/paste their code. I get more enjoyment out of writing
> something that works from scratch.
That and none of their code would remotely work if copy-pasted into modern MAME, we're something like 120 releases ahead of their fork point.
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: R. Belmont]
#332621 - 10/01/14 08:15 PM
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> we're something like 120 releases ahead of their fork point.
Yep. I quit messing with that a few years ago after I found Pinball Arcade for iOS. 
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: Robbbert]
#332628 - 10/02/14 12:36 AM
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Awesome, so when can you look at Panic Park? 
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: Tafoid]
#332630 - 10/02/14 01:26 AM
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Interesting, I had no idea MAME was that ambitious. I've heard talk of adding artwork for games like Midway's 18 wheeler, but I thought pinball simulation would be left to others. I'm actually ecstatic because current pinball sims are a mess.....outdated......abandoned (to a degree)....confusing at best. Very buggy also.
I know RB and others have no love for PinMAME's code. It would be great to see pinball done right in all aspects. I know they would never replace the real thing but I've played a few tables that have made a great attempt at preserving them (to a degree). I always felt they deserved to be preserved also, even if it's just a computer simulation.
Pinball Arcade is quite good at their approach (at least to me).
Question: Would MAME use outside parts like Newton Mechanics or would it be built from the ground up (for lack of a better understanding)? I would also assume it would take a monumental amount of work to MAME as it exists today. Correct?
I've seen a few pincabs that look pretty cool....back glass an all.
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: Antny]
#332631 - 10/02/14 02:14 AM
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> Question: Would MAME use outside parts like Newton Mechanics or would it be built
> from the ground up (for lack of a better understanding)? I would also assume it would
> take a monumental amount of work to MAME as it exists today. Correct?
I'd imagine ODE or PhysX hooked to real 3D modeled pinball tables. Then some shaders and HDR image-based lighting to make it photorealistic. One can dream, right? :P
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: Ville Linde]
#332632 - 10/02/14 02:40 AM
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Nice to see you around Ville. Can you have a complete pinball simulation in MAME by this Saturday because I really would like to play it? 
Feel free to use Robbert and/or Mr Belmont if you need help.
Edited by Antny (10/02/14 03:07 AM)
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| RATMNL |
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Patron Saint of the Totally F*cked
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: Antny]
#332650 - 10/02/14 09:34 AM
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> Nice to see you around Ville. Can you have a complete pinball simulation in MAME by
> this Saturday because I really would like to play it?
>
> Feel free to use Robbert and/or Mr Belmont if you need help.
Whahaha.. Your forgot to say please
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"Those voices in his head might not be real, but they have really good ideas!"
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: Ville Linde]
#332654 - 10/02/14 10:22 AM
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> > Question: Would MAME use outside parts like Newton Mechanics or would it be built
> > from the ground up (for lack of a better understanding)? I would also assume it
> would
> > take a monumental amount of work to MAME as it exists today. Correct?
>
> I'd imagine ODE or PhysX hooked to real 3D modeled pinball tables. Then some shaders
> and HDR image-based lighting to make it photorealistic. One can dream, right? :P
Friction is extremely important in pinballs, so I'm not sure you can use existing libraries. And curves are also extremely important, so you probably need to handle bezier stuff. OTOH, the objects themselves tend to be not bad, so there's that.
The lighting, though, that's going to be a pain.
O "my TODO list is bigger than yours" G.
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| Dullaron |
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I want to point this out to all.
[Re: Antny]
#332660 - 10/02/14 12:25 PM
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If MAME Dev ever decide to make their own PinMAME build in the MAME then here what will happen. The old PinMAME will be banned forever. No more hacking source. Be clean as a new born baby skin.
Have a linking tool that allow the Unit3D Pinball and Visual Pinball connect onto MAME.
I hate to say this. None of this will never happen. Keep dreaming. 
Get Pinball Arcade instead. iOS, Steam, PC and many more are supported. Or get that PinMAME (out of date) and Visual Pinball or Unit3D Pinball to save all this posting time.
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: Antny]
#332679 - 10/02/14 09:39 PM
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> Nice to see you around Ville. Can you have a complete pinball simulation in MAME by
> this Saturday because I really would like to play it?
Ville's actually picked up MAME's Model 3 driver again since SuperModel died.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: Ville Linde]
#332680 - 10/02/14 09:44 PM
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> I'd imagine ODE or PhysX hooked to real 3D modeled pinball tables. Then some shaders
> and HDR image-based lighting to make it photorealistic. One can dream, right? :P
Part of the idea behind the OSD branch with BGFX, besides that Moogly can then write HLSL once and run it everywhere, is that BGFX gives us a real high-performance proven-in-shipping-games rendering backend. And hardware rasterization of vector-format artwork.
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: R. Belmont]
#332687 - 10/03/14 02:30 AM
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>Ville's actually picked up MAME's Model 3 driver again since SuperModel died.
Yes I've noticed Ville's work, nice to see him back. I didn't know SuperModel was dead
BTW
I'm patiently waiting for another incarnation of your cool little M-1 program. Please don't abandon it, it raises my geek factor tenfold.
I've been monitoring your M-1 board, would it be a complete rewrite? Will advancements in MAME make it easier to add games?
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: Antny]
#332721 - 10/03/14 05:53 PM
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> Yes I've noticed Ville's work, nice to see him back. I didn't know SuperModel was
> dead
Bart out in the real world now where they expect results, and nobody's heard from Nik who was doing the network code in a year now. Hopefully he's OK.
I might update it to SDL2 if I'm bored sometime soon, but since none of the Model 3 games are multiscreen that won't mean much.
> I've been monitoring your M-1 board, would it be a complete rewrite? Will
> advancements in MAME make it easier to add games?
Yeah, it'll be a near-complete rewrite based on modern MAME components, now that we've settled on a device structure. I believe MAME is pretty close to where nothing is legacy now, which will be when I start.
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: R. Belmont]
#332722 - 10/03/14 06:18 PM
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> > I'd imagine ODE or PhysX hooked to real 3D modeled pinball tables. Then some
> shaders
> > and HDR image-based lighting to make it photorealistic. One can dream, right? :P
>
> Part of the idea behind the OSD branch with BGFX, besides that Moogly can then write
> HLSL once and run it everywhere, is that BGFX gives us a real high-performance
> proven-in-shipping-games rendering backend. And hardware rasterization of
> vector-format artwork.
That is pretty cool. It even does image based lighting and deferred shading straight out of the box 
Certainly makes things easier.
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Re: Pinball Progress
[Re: R. Belmont]
#332723 - 10/03/14 06:30 PM
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> Ville's actually picked up MAME's Model 3 driver again since SuperModel died.
The current plan so far (not to derail this thread too much...)
- Rewrite the 2D tilemap code. The current code is pretty bad and inefficient.
- Rewrite most of the 3D rendering. It's currently one of the last things still using the legacy polygon code. Some longer term ideas involve putting the whole rendering pipeline into worker threads to get more use out of those cpu cores.
- Nuke every rom patch.
- Decrypt and decompress those tiles in magtruck/dirt devils/von2. I'm 95% sure it's using the Naomi M2 algo or something very similar.
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| Comboman |
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Can't think of a good title
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Physical simulation, combined with the netlist-based emulation implemented for non-cpu games, opens up the potential for emulating some really old EM arcade games like those old Midway light gun games.
Although, it's hard enough to find artwork for 30 year old video games, imagine trying to get artwork for 50+ year old EM arcade games.
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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Re: I want to point this out to all.
[Re: Dullaron]
#332755 - 10/04/14 10:18 AM
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> I hate to say this. None of this will never happen. Keep dreaming.
What are next weeks lottery numbers? If you can predict the future you should be a very rich man.
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