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Race Drivin and linking?
#341393 - 06/12/15 09:33 PM
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I've poked through the source code, but can't find any mention of whether the serial port(s) on the Atari polygon hardware (Hard Drivin, Race Drivin, STUN Runner, Steel Talons, etc) are implemented in MAME in any way. Anyone know or know how to tell for sure?
Would be cool to figure out how to link two machines running MAME and Race Drivin.
More cool would be to build a custom Race Drivin Panorama.
--Donnie
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Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: djb_rh]
#341395 - 06/12/15 09:45 PM
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> I've poked through the source code, but can't find any mention of whether the serial
> port(s) on the Atari polygon hardware (Hard Drivin, Race Drivin, STUN Runner, Steel
> Talons, etc) are implemented in MAME in any way. Anyone know or know how to tell for
> sure?
>
> Would be cool to figure out how to link two machines running MAME and Race Drivin.
>
> More cool would be to build a custom Race Drivin Panorama.
Can't speak for the linking but Haze implemented Race Drivin Panorama not too long ago.
http://mamedev.emulab.it/haze/2015/05/08/post-release-progress/
- Stiletto
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: Stiletto]
#341398 - 06/12/15 10:26 PM
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> > I've poked through the source code, but can't find any mention of whether the
> serial
> > port(s) on the Atari polygon hardware (Hard Drivin, Race Drivin, STUN Runner, Steel
> > Talons, etc) are implemented in MAME in any way. Anyone know or know how to tell
> for
> > sure?
> >
> > Would be cool to figure out how to link two machines running MAME and Race Drivin.
> >
> > More cool would be to build a custom Race Drivin Panorama.
>
> Can't speak for the linking but Haze implemented Race Drivin Panorama not too long
> ago.
>
> http://mamedev.emulab.it/haze/2015/05/08/post-release-progress/
>
> - Stiletto
Yeah, I know RDP is in MAME. But it's not as generic as I'd like...on the real hardware, you could actually keep adding displays. You add another set of boards and you can configure them for any angle you want (well, nearly). Folks have hacked together five screen RDPs, and in the lab back in the day when it was being built, they did a four screen version that had a rear view. They put the monitor behind the driver and put a real rear view mirror above the center screen and it worked.
But the current MAME implementation is hard coded to three screens, all running on your one computer monitor and on one computer. I'd rather see it abstracted out such that you could use three distinct computers.
Why? Because then you could use *real* RDP hardware in the center (which can be derived from RD hardware quite easily) and MAME machines for as many other angles as you want (I think 59 are supported in total!). No, I don't want 59, but I would like four.
My plan currently is to convert my RD to a single screen RDP. Then I'm going to build a second screen using real hardware (looks like it's just a compact multisync board and ADSP board and the right ROMs/slapstic). I'll hook it up and make sure I can make it work. Once that's working, I'd love to then see if I can use MAME to make another display.
I believe modifying harddriv.c to support this idea of hardware is easy. What's *not* easy is adding serial port support. That's where I'd *definitely* need help if it isn't implemented already.
As a bonus, if serial support were there, one could setup two MAME machines and do head-to-head RD racing. Or one real RD and one MAME. Not sure that's as useful, obviously, as using MAME for the side displays of RDP.
--Donnie
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: djb_rh]
#341415 - 06/13/15 03:30 AM
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I know this isn't what you are really looking for, but MAME can run RDP across multiple monitors from 1 PC already if you have a video card capable of running that many screens. I used it for the dual screen Xmen 6 player version years ago.
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: Reznor007]
#341458 - 06/14/15 02:33 AM
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> I know this isn't what you are really looking for, but MAME can run RDP across
> multiple monitors from 1 PC already if you have a video card capable of running that
> many screens. I used it for the dual screen Xmen 6 player version years ago.
It can (I did it just the other day on my Macbook Pro), but the emulation isn't true to the hardware. It's hard coded to be a center and a right and left side, but in reality each side could be set to one of 59 different viewing angles (and there's nothing stopping you from adding ALL 59 different angles...you simply split the serial output of the center into the serial input of ALL your additional displays and then set each one to the angle you want).
I mean it's awesome that it does what it does, and one can say it *is* true to the production game in the only form it actually appeared. But it's not true to the hardware. Having looked at the code, I don't think it's *far* from being true to the hardware in the sense of adding screens. But the missing serial port support seems to mean that one can't use MAME to emulate *just* the center or *just* the side screens, either. That's the part I'd really love to find out how to fix.
--Donnie
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: djb_rh]
#341526 - 06/15/15 08:33 PM
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> But the current MAME implementation is hard coded to three screens, all running on
> your one computer monitor and on one computer.
Well, no, you can have 3 physical monitors if you like. MAME's supported that on Windows forever and on Linux/Mac since 0.161 or so.
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#341532 - 06/16/15 01:04 AM
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> > But the current MAME implementation is hard coded to three screens, all running on
> > your one computer monitor and on one computer.
>
> Well, no, you can have 3 physical monitors if you like. MAME's supported that on
> Windows forever and on Linux/Mac since 0.161 or so.
Sorry, you are correct. I did not mean to imply there was some *monitor* limitation.
There is, however, still a *CPU* limitation. You're only going to run RDP on one CPU. That's what I'd like to "fix". For two reasons...one is it would let you link two RD's for linked racing on two different computers, and two it would let you use a MAME machine to *just* be a side/rear/whatever monitor for a *real* RDP.
All we need is support for the RD/RDP serial port.
--Donnie
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: djb_rh]
#341592 - 06/17/15 07:38 PM
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> All we need is support for the RD/RDP serial port.
We can definitely do that (we expose configurable serial ports about 5 times before breakfast on the non-arcade side), but it'll completely shatter every frontend not named "qmc2" then.
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#341598 - 06/18/15 03:16 AM
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> > All we need is support for the RD/RDP serial port.
>
> We can definitely do that (we expose configurable serial ports about 5 times before
> breakfast on the non-arcade side), but it'll completely shatter every frontend not
> named "qmc2" then.
Could we make the "master" board expose the serial port as a slot that a "slave" board is connected to, which exposes another slot for the next "slave" board and so on and default to having two daisy-chained slaves for the left and right monitors? That would leave the default behaviour alone but allow people to make arbitrarily complex configurations.
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#341644 - 06/19/15 05:33 AM
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> > > All we need is support for the RD/RDP serial port.
> >
> > We can definitely do that (we expose configurable serial ports about 5 times before
> > breakfast on the non-arcade side), but it'll completely shatter every frontend not
> > named "qmc2" then.
>
> Could we make the "master" board expose the serial port as a slot that a "slave"
> board is connected to, which exposes another slot for the next "slave" board and so
> on and default to having two daisy-chained slaves for the left and right monitors?
> That would leave the default behaviour alone but allow people to make arbitrarily
> complex configurations.
Aside from being the "guy who shattered every frontend not named 'qmc2'", I don't much care *how* it's done. I just want it done. 
I've tried and tried to get in touch with Aaron Giles to get his thoughts on this, but can't seem to get him.
I'm making headway on building my own RDP from RD parts. Well, I'm only planning to implement *one* side using Atari boards. Once I prove I can convert RD boards to RDP and make it talk to one side, then I'd like to see about adding the other side using a MAME machine. Then we'd be cooking with gas.
Unfortunately I'm at least three weeks away from Atari-based proof of concept hardware due to some travel I have to do.
--Donnie
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#341719 - 06/22/15 03:46 AM
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> > All we need is support for the RD/RDP serial port.
>
> We can definitely do that (we expose configurable serial ports about 5 times before
> breakfast on the non-arcade side), but it'll completely shatter every frontend not
> named "qmc2" then.
I'm curious what this means. I'm not familiar with the front ends, nor the architecture issues.
I *think* you mean it breaks the front ends in the sense that they wouldn't have a clue how to start RDP if it required them to start three different instances of MAME and make each of them talk over a virtual serial port. Is that it?
If so, my thought would be to not do that. Keep RDP coded the way it is. Simply add two more targets. One could be RDP-center-only, the other would be RDP-side-only. Wanna use those two? No front end for you.
Allow them to talk to virtual or real serial ports. Add that same code to RD so it can link, too. Boom, problem solved. Or am I missing something?
--Donnie
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#341957 - 06/27/15 09:46 PM
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> Could we make the "master" board expose the serial port as a slot that a "slave"
> board is connected to, which exposes another slot for the next "slave" board and so
> on and default to having two daisy-chained slaves for the left and right monitors?
> That would leave the default behaviour alone but allow people to make arbitrarily
> complex configurations.
Absolutely. But like I said, at this point they'll only be able to do so with the command line or QMC2, because QMC2 is the only FE that supports arbitrary slotting.
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#342034 - 06/30/15 02:53 AM
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Not having played around much with the slot concept does that allow running machines on separate host computers and linking them together like djb_rh is hoping for?
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: bdam]
#342055 - 07/01/15 05:28 PM
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> Not having played around much with the slot concept does that allow running machines
> on separate host computers and linking them together like djb_rh is hoping for?
One of the RS232 slot options is the "bitbanger", which redirects communication to a TCP socket. Continuing beyond that is pretty easy on Linux/Mac ('screen' will work to link together the MAME instances at that point) and quite difficult on Windows.
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#342063 - 07/02/15 12:20 AM
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> > Not having played around much with the slot concept does that allow running
> machines
> > on separate host computers and linking them together like djb_rh is hoping for?
>
> One of the RS232 slot options is the "bitbanger", which redirects communication to a
> TCP socket. Continuing beyond that is pretty easy on Linux/Mac ('screen' will work to
> link together the MAME instances at that point) and quite difficult on Windows.
I'm not familiar with this, either. What about doing the above with one MAME machine and one *real* piece of hardware and using actual RS232 to link them?
--Donnie
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: djb_rh]
#342205 - 07/06/15 04:47 PM
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> I'm not familiar with this, either. What about doing the above with one MAME machine
> and one *real* piece of hardware and using actual RS232 to link them?
Again, fairly easy on *IX to my knowledge, harder on Win. (Also, who has a PC with real RS232 ports these days?)
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#342213 - 07/07/15 01:37 AM
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> > I'm not familiar with this, either. What about doing the above with one MAME
> machine
> > and one *real* piece of hardware and using actual RS232 to link them?
>
> Again, fairly easy on *IX to my knowledge, harder on Win. (Also, who has a PC with
> real RS232 ports these days?)
USB to RS-232 dongles are cheap, and hopefully would work.
--Donnie
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#342218 - 07/07/15 05:40 AM
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> Again, fairly easy on *IX to my knowledge, harder on Win. (Also, who has a PC with
> real RS232 ports these days?)
My 2014 Dell Precision T3610 (3.7GHz Xeon) has a real 9-pin RS232 port. They seem to be more common on pro hardware.
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#342229 - 07/07/15 08:59 PM
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> > Again, fairly easy on *IX to my knowledge, harder on Win. (Also, who has a PC with
> > real RS232 ports these days?)
>
> My 2014 Dell Precision T3610 (3.7GHz Xeon) has a real 9-pin RS232 port. They seem to
> be more common on pro hardware.
Huh, yeah. My brand-new Dell Precision at work (Xeon E5-1650 @ 3.5GHz) has one real 9-pin COM1 as well. But no 5.1 audio, to complete the time warp (can you buy a mobo on Newegg that doesn't have 5.1 or better?). Had to put a Creative card in and pray.
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: djb_rh]
#362180 - 01/03/17 02:40 AM
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> I've poked through the source code, but can't find any mention of whether the serial
> port(s) on the Atari polygon hardware (Hard Drivin, Race Drivin, STUN Runner, Steel
> Talons, etc) are implemented in MAME in any way. Anyone know or know how to tell for
> sure?
>
> Would be cool to figure out how to link two machines running MAME and Race Drivin.
>
> More cool would be to build a custom Race Drivin Panorama.
>
>
> --Donnie
(sorry for reviving an ancient thread)
https://youtu.be/35nz0kxco-g
Consider it done, may take a few days 'til this get into base mame
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I do all that stuff even without a Joystick 
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.
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| gregf |
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Re: Race Drivin and linking
[Re: SailorSat]
#362188 - 01/03/17 08:25 AM
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>>Would be cool to figure out how to link two machines running MAME and Race Drivin.
>> --Donnie
>(sorry for reviving an ancient thread)
For a good cause like this revive old threads if and whenever needing to do so.
>Consider it done, may take a few days 'til this get into base mame
It is in there unless there is more future link work to be added later for Race Drivin.
https://youtu.be/35nz0kxco-g
Good example of showing what is going on.....btw....that's my type of driving if playing a linked game cab such as one of the San Francisco Rush series in which the car I drove landed into the SF bay when playing the game at Camelot many years earlier. Camelot didn't have any Kee Games Sprint 2 cabs there so I headed for Konami Drum Mania and had a better time.
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Re: Race Drivin and linking?
[Re: SailorSat]
#362567 - 01/15/17 04:17 AM
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Whoahh ... that's awesome. Now you've got me wanting to go back and poke around the FFB some more.
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